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What the Health?
Replies
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nutmegoreo wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »
I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.
If only there were a Diet where I could eat bunches of Oreos!
Right? But just the traditional ones, none of those new fandangle ones.
Poppy*kitten*.
The double-stuff are awesome. Surprisingly, as much as I like the double-stuff, the new thin ones are really good too.
And the sparkly pink peep flavored ones will change the color of your poop.1 -
TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »I'm going to make a documentary as to why meat is awesome. I can make up lies and say that Kale causes osteoporosis and pancreatic cancer and people would believe me just because its in a documentary.
I think Atkins beat you to it.
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stanmann571 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »
I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.
If only there were a Diet where I could eat bunches of Oreos!
Right? But just the traditional ones, none of those new fandangle ones.
Poppy*kitten*.
The double-stuff are awesome. Surprisingly, as much as I like the double-stuff, the new thin ones are really good too.
And the sparkly pink peep flavored ones will change the color of your poop.
Oh, fun! I'mma have to try that now. Is that why the Peep Cleanse (TM) included never eating the eyes? So that it wouldn't be staring up at you when you're finished?2 -
David_Marquiss wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.
[edited by MFP Mods]
Yet here you are in the debate forum making statements you can't back up with valid research. Telling people to do their own research isn't how a debate works.8 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »StarvingDiva wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »
I know plenty of vegans that are unhealthy. The ones I came across just eats a bunch of Oreo cookies and low activity.
If only there were a Diet where I could eat bunches of Oreos!
Right? But just the traditional ones, none of those new fandangle ones.
Poppy*kitten*.
The double-stuff are awesome. Surprisingly, as much as I like the double-stuff, the new thin ones are really good too.
And the sparkly pink peep flavored ones will change the color of your poop.
Oh, fun! I'mma have to try that now. Is that why the Peep Cleanse (TM) included never eating the eyes? So that it wouldn't be staring up at you when you're finished?
I could get behind a peep cleanse. and Double Stuff are old school anyway I meant the new flavored ones, seem yucky to me. But I do like peeps. Must not eat the peeps. They resemble animals, that can't be vegan.
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Gummy bears then.1
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Peeps all the way! I always "accidently" over-buy at Easter and oops, can't let the extras go to waste...2
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Peeps get better the second year. Crunchy and chewy4
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stanmann571 wrote: »Peeps get better the second year. Crunchy and chewy
Ha ha like the stale ones you buy on sale.3 -
I found I could take the tidbits of new info I learned and the rest leave it. Ultimately I conclude from these documentaries that most food is bad, processsed, or causes cancer. So from personal experience you have to do what's best with what your body likes. I've read many different things and even a vegetarian diet can cause cancer, a vegan diet long term 10+ can cause health issues, a raw diet some of the same. So I conclude a minimal amount of uncharred meat, no luncheon meat ( gut inflammatory), 1 to two times a week, mostly plant based, low on the inflammatory foods and low to moderate carbs seems to be helpful avoiding processed or heavily processed foods or gmo as well. My journey through food is to optimize gut health and the microbiome to heal the gut and for me personally I cannot just eat vegan or vegetarian for optimal health.7
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Lol, steps into a "debate" thread and doesn't want to argue with anyone. Classic.David_Marquiss wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »
Like I have said, arguing is pointless to people that dont want to learn, do your own research, If you watch the documentary hes pretty dang clear where he got his studies from. I have been lookong into it for 4 years now because my wife was a vegetarian for 3 when we had met, I used to eat meat everyday at least 2-3 times a day until I really took the time to research it. I used to say "I could never do that" turns out the choice was simple to me, I love animals. Everyone makes their own choices, its like driving and eco efficient car or driving a Hummer, your the one who gets in your car and fuels it. Its not my job to tell you how to drive, I just perfer to drive different. Thats all I can do, set an example through actions, not waste my time on a silly form going into circles. Al Capone and anyother criminal went to thier death sentances saying they were innocent, its a human trait, theres no point in arguing with someone. have a good day.janejellyroll wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
What research led you to conclude that meat, in and of itself, is bad for humans?
Meat can certainly be a factor in some unhealthy diet patterns, but it's also included in the diets of many people in "blue zones" where people live longer than average.
[edited by MFP Mods]
You're arguing with a vegan... who's defending the idea that meat isn't bad.
Just think that through... for a minute.
What if I told you...... I was making a general statement... maybe you should think that through for a minute, like I said I have no interest in arguing with anyone. You take what you will from this thread.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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rashadlc1980 wrote: »TheWJordinWJordin wrote: »I'm going to make a documentary as to why meat is awesome. I can make up lies and say that Kale causes osteoporosis and pancreatic cancer and people would believe me just because its in a documentary.
I think Atkins beat you to it.
Heh. Cute. Granted, that's not remotely like something Dr. Atkins would say (given his requirement of "foundational vegetables etc.), but a good joke nonetheless.1 -
Here's some more science of What the Health. Joe Rogan looks like a fool trying to debunk it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m2h3BZA_sQ
Here's a link to sources and statistics for the film:
http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/facts/
More Stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7b4kBTuHF0 13 -
I watched the Garth Davis vs Z Dogg video linked above. Sure, Z Dogg sounds ill informed. But Dr Davis' last words are something to the effect of "you can believe Z Dogg or me", and of course, we have many more options besides believing only Z Dogg or Dr. Davis. As in believing well reasoned, well informed critics of the documentary.7
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I read "How Not to Die" by Dr. Michael Greger and came across "What the Health?" on Netflix a few days later. That was the one-two punch and I've been plant based ever since. Previously I had been trying in vain to incorporate more veggies into my diet, but as long as meat was on my plate it was always the entree and not a condiment. Ten pounds down in 4 weeks and energy levels through the roof!19
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rashadlc1980 wrote: »Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?
You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.
My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.
What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.3 -
I read "How Not to Die" by Dr. Michael Greger and came across "What the Health?" on Netflix a few days later. That was the one-two punch and I've been plant based ever since. Previously I had been trying in vain to incorporate more veggies into my diet, but as long as meat was on my plate it was always the entree and not a condiment. Ten pounds down in 4 weeks and energy levels through the roof!
Do you also often buy vacuum cleaners from the gentlemen who travel from town to town?
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I have hated meat since infancy. (I would not eat the meat baby foods, even when mixed with more palatable things.) My objection to eating it is that I don't think it tastes very good, and when I eat it I feel like crap (bloated/tired/lethargic/snippy). Again, I've always been this way, so avoiding meat isn't a problem for me. I'm vegetarian (not vegan) and I've been known to eat fish on occasion because it metabolizes better for me than red meat. I assume that other people eat meat because they enjoy it and don't suffer the same side effects as I do.
I think documentaries like "What the Health?" make unfounded assumptions about what everyone should eat. Experience has taught me that diets are, and should, be variable.10 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »David_Marquiss wrote: »My vegan agenda and I enjoyed the film. I do think though as with any food or health documentary you need to do your own
Nota bene: Steak/bacon/burger jokes? Are we still doing this? I think there are ways to share your opinions without demeaning or making fun of others beliefs.
Or..you can have a sense of humor, life is too short to take oneself so serious
Or maybe meat eaters lifes are to short to take seriously. Lol before you get mad its a joke, you all can say its "over dramatized" but do your research and still meat is pretty bad for you. Not going to argue on here, just liked to make the joke/poke at someone. Sorry it had to be you.
Ever hear of the Blue Zones?
Vegan mockumentaries don't tend to acknowledge those
What I find so interesting about the Zones is that there's only one vegetarian group that meets the requirements, but of that group there's a sub-group that still eats fish, (so pescetarian), and they have even better longevity of life outcomes than their vegetarian counterparts. It's a very 'closed' community and they're pretty similar in other aspects, (it's the Seventh Day Adventist group in Loma Linda, CA).
I grew up Seventh-day Adventist. A large number of them are vegan, but most vegans would call them "plant based" because they do it only for health reasons and have no restrictions on leather or other animal products. I grew up calling them vegan though, so it's hard to adjust to the new term. I don't know how that affects the studies that shows longevity in my group.
A large number of them are also not vegetarian at all, but for the most part they do not eat the "unclean" animals (the animals listed in the bible as unclean). Mostly catfish, shrimp, and pork.
I'm now non-religious, but I have a hard time eating pork unless it's bacon or pepperoni. Consistency is the mark of a small mind. <Sarcasm emoji>3 -
Really loved it. Period. Trying to practice plant base as much as possible. Period.
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This content has been removed.
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nursebravo14 wrote: »Really loved it. Period. Trying to practice plant base as much as possible. Period.
You love outright lies? OK, then.8 -
Jennikitten wrote: »I'm a vegan and I think this documentary is bad and makes vegans look crazy.
If people are going to make things like this it should be based solely on evidence otherwise what is the pointVegan propaganda at its finest.
I'm also a vegan and both these statements are true. This documentary to me seemed nothing more than scare tactics, misinformation and a large chunk of bad science.
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rashadlc1980 wrote: »Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?
You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.
My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.
What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.
So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.
I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.3 -
Lavelle1980 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?
You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.
My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.
What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.
So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.
I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.
Many non-vegans have to supplement B12 as well -- our ability to absorb it goes down as we age. The largest group of B12 deficient people in the US is people over 55, not vegans.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Lavelle1980 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?
You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.
My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.
What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.
So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.
I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.
Many non-vegans have to supplement B12 as well -- our ability to absorb it goes down as we age. The largest group of B12 deficient people in the US is people over 55, not vegans.
Can you share a non-bias reference. I did hear this some time ago, but didn't dig too much into it.0 -
Lavelle1980 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?
You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.
My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.
What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.
So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.
I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.
The bolded doesn't make sense to me... if you aren't "digesting" grains well, you aren't extracting the nutrients and calories from it - it's primarily going to just pass on through. So how does eating something, which is a main part of your diet, that you aren't digesting make you not lose weight?
6 -
Lavelle1980 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Lavelle1980 wrote: »rashadlc1980 wrote: »Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.
So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.
So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.
My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.
So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.
I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.
Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.
Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.
What's the correlation between the them?
I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?
You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.
My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.
What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.
So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.
I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.
Many non-vegans have to supplement B12 as well -- our ability to absorb it goes down as we age. The largest group of B12 deficient people in the US is people over 55, not vegans.
Can you share a non-bias reference. I did hear this some time ago, but didn't dig too much into it.
What are you looking to reference specifically? That our ability to absorb B12 goes down as we age?
There are some references embedded in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency
Specifically an estimated 20% of people over age 60 are B12 deficient. Given that there are many more people in the US over age 60 than there are vegans, this would make a much bigger portion of the people needing supplementation to be in the former group.
I'm not saying this to make the point that people who are plant-based/vegan don't need supplements (or fortified foods) -- I strongly believe that we do. I'm just saying that I don't consider the necessity of supplementation, in and of itself, to be a sign that people should reject veganism.0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebwzk02o0IA&t=11s[/yt]This discussion has been closed.
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