Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.

What the Health?

1234568»

Replies

  • Lavelle1980
    Lavelle1980 Posts: 374 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.

    So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.

    So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.

    My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.

    So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.

    I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.

    Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.

    Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.

    What's the correlation between the them?




    I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?

    You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.

    My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.

    What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.

    So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.

    I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.

    So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.

    So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.

    My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.

    So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.

    I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.

    Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.

    Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.

    What's the correlation between the them?




    I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?

    You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.

    My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.

    What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.

    So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.

    I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.

    Many non-vegans have to supplement B12 as well -- our ability to absorb it goes down as we age. The largest group of B12 deficient people in the US is people over 55, not vegans.
  • Lavelle1980
    Lavelle1980 Posts: 374 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.

    So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.

    So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.

    My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.

    So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.

    I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.

    Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.

    Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.

    What's the correlation between the them?




    I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?

    You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.

    My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.

    What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.

    So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.

    I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.

    Many non-vegans have to supplement B12 as well -- our ability to absorb it goes down as we age. The largest group of B12 deficient people in the US is people over 55, not vegans.

    Can you share a non-bias reference. I did hear this some time ago, but didn't dig too much into it.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Okay, So I can only speak of myself from my own experience. I suffered for over a period of 5 years with severe gout. When I first had my gout attack I though I had broken my foot or fractured it. After some time of studying I realized that the Red meat is what caused the high uric acid in my body. So I went on and off of it. Every time I started eating red meat at a high rate, I felt the attack coming. I went off for about 6 months. Then started it back again, then boom, it was there. Not only that, I also experience heavy allergies during the season with servere red and itchy eyes. The allergies I had all my life and I would break out in hives just about every year. Also I had to get an allergy shot every year between August and October in order to just breathe. I live in the Dallas, TX area. Ragweed and pollen was high. I did hear claims that Plant based foods can revere all this.

    So when I first started, and about 3 years of going on and off, My gout did not come back... However, my allergies did not go away. Well I was really confused about Vegan and Vegetarian and realized that I was still eating some dairy, especially in sweets since that's my weakness.

    So I started the High Carb low Fat, no dairy, etc.. vegan. My allergies improved about 90%. Not all the way gone, but I haven't been to the doctor for shots in 2 years.

    My mother also is a type II diabetic and she's been to the doctor for years, tried other diets, etc.. She has thyroid disease and severe knee pain. She recently started the HCLF vegan diet for about a month and I can honestly say, I've seen tremendous results. No blood test as of yet, but her energy is coming back and she is shredding pounds.

    So about the Film. Is it a Propaganda? Yes I believe so. Just like with many other films out there. However, just like with any other film or study, it's best to do your due diligence to determine what's true and what's not.

    I highly doubt that we can determine Absolute Truth to anything when it comes to health and scientific studies. I've heard and read some testimonies where a HCLF vegan didn't provide any benefits. I believe the point of the film is to get people to start talking and thinking and taking control over their health. Rather it's a 80% plant base and some meat or 100% plant based. I've seen people, for the first time in their lives, started to take control over their health. Will they stay on this vegan diet? I'm not sure, but the film caused some awareness that there is an epidemic problem with our society and culture.

    Can we truly find 100% truth and facts from the best diet to eat? I'm not sure, but I want to believe that we can be pretty close to it. Obviously something has NOT been working right in the past 50 years, if obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease is on the rise.

    Some things I can't tell you want I don't know, but I can surely tell you what I do know. I do know that the American culture has strayed away from plant and fiber foods and has consumed more meat and dairy than ever before. Is that a fact? Yes. Let that be the starting point. Now what I don't know is that Meat and Dairy is the main cause for every single disease. That for sure, I don't know. Could it be that we can have meat but need to increase our fiber and plants? Maybe.

    What's the correlation between the them?




    I'm curious. During this time how much weight did you lose? Did you increase your activity?

    You are falling into a trap of confirmation bias. There are a multitude of changes you made during this process - some you are aware of, some you are not aware of. Note this is why scientists hold peer review to remove as much bias as possible from the process.

    My guess is that you are feeling the results of a calorie deficit resulting in weight loss, which has caused a positive feedback - what you have experienced as increased energy, diminished allergic response, reduced inflammation, etc.

    What you actually ate had little to do with this. This was simply your personal tactic to get to a caloric deficit.

    So I actually didn't lose to much weight. I was hoping to drop and shred pounds like all the other testimonies but I didn't. The only benefit was maybe for health. I recently discovered why I wasn't losing the weight and it was because of the grains and gluten. I do not digest grains well which was the main part of my diet. That includes Quinoa, Rice, wheat and pasta. The other downside that I just discovered: was the brain fog. Going plant base only you have to be dependent on B12 supplements. I went for about 2 weeks w/o it, and I was so tired that I felt dizzy. I took B12 and saw a little difference. Then a grabbed some salmon and tuna, and felt energized again. So I'm re-thinking the entire plant base for 100% of the time. No where in history did ancient civilation thrive on plants only, they had some fish included. Now I'm considering just adding fish only.

    I hate being dependent on b12 supplements for the rest of my life.

    Many non-vegans have to supplement B12 as well -- our ability to absorb it goes down as we age. The largest group of B12 deficient people in the US is people over 55, not vegans.

    Can you share a non-bias reference. I did hear this some time ago, but didn't dig too much into it.

    What are you looking to reference specifically? That our ability to absorb B12 goes down as we age?

    There are some references embedded in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency

    Specifically an estimated 20% of people over age 60 are B12 deficient. Given that there are many more people in the US over age 60 than there are vegans, this would make a much bigger portion of the people needing supplementation to be in the former group.

    I'm not saying this to make the point that people who are plant-based/vegan don't need supplements (or fortified foods) -- I strongly believe that we do. I'm just saying that I don't consider the necessity of supplementation, in and of itself, to be a sign that people should reject veganism.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member