Pros and cons of a Keto Diet
Replies
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Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.4 -
Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
13 -
Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
If what you say is true about carbs playing the major role in obesity, how do you explain "blue zones"?4 -
Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
If what you say is true about carbs playing the major role in obesity, how do you explain "blue zones"?
1. I'm not saying all carbs are bad, just the overconsumption of refined and simple starches in the American diet are causing chronic insulin production and chronic inflammation.
2. It isn't me saying it, not my field of research, but other groups like the BMJ paper I cited.
3. These systems are very complicated and so multiple factors are at play, therefore any attempts at reductionism will be prone to overinterpretation. tread carefully.7 -
How on earth are any of us succeeding whilst not doing keto...8
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Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
That article says absolutely nothing about needing to eat a keto or even low carb diet. It just says saturated fats aren't the devil they were once thought to be. It also says people should walk for 22 mins a day and eat real food (which is excellent advice).7 -
Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
If what you say is true about carbs playing the major role in obesity, how do you explain "blue zones"?
1. I'm not saying all carbs are bad, just the overconsumption of refined and simple starches in the American diet are causing chronic insulin production and chronic inflammation.
2. It isn't me saying it, not my field of research, but other groups like the BMJ paper I cited.
3. These systems are very complicated and so multiple factors are at play, therefore any attempts at reductionism will be prone to overinterpretation. tread carefully.
1. So even though plant based dieters are touted at the healthiest people (who eat 60-70% of their calories from carbs), and the blue zones are known to be the longest living, who eat 70-75% of their calories from carbs, that they will have chronic inflammation because insulin product will occur at higher rates because carbs?
Let's be honest here, are you honestly suggesting that fruits and milk (which are simple starches) are now causing chronic inflammation? Or do you think it's more plausible that overconsumptions of calories, whether it be refined carbohydrates, baked goods and fried foods?
2. CHD/CVD is driven by obesity, not by carb consumption. Again, the healthiest places on earth are all carb based.
3. While I agree our bodies are highly complex, we do know a lot about it. We know that chances of disease is severely diminished by maintaining a good body weight and exercising. In fact, there are studies supporting every single diet out there? Why, because they all work on some type of calorie restriction.
8 -
Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one
The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it. 7 -
Look, it's understandable. Someone tries something (in this case keto), it works great, and so they believe it's the best way to go. They then proceed to preach to everyone about this new thing and how what anyone else is doing is wrong. Give them time...
Note: I don't think there is anything wrong with keto. Just not the be all end all...1 -
#1 I actually think we are saying the same thing here. My keto WOE is a means to loose weight quickly and to restore the out of whack insulin insensitivity in my body. My planned transition to a Mediterranean diet, with fruit (fiber), milk, fish, yogurt, whole grain carbs, tomatoes, etc. will happen when I'm close to my target weight of 180 lbs. Keto gave me a kick start. But no, I don't think we have to throw out the baby with the bath water. I do think that, when folks are at an appropriate BMI, 70% of cals should come from carbs. Maybe you've just lumped me in with paleo, I see keto as a tool, not a permanent dietary state. Curious, Are you vegetarian?
#2 here I would contend you're being rather simplistic. The controversial finding which is nicely summarized in that paper is that it's more complicated than that. Of course obiesity is bad, but many subjects in the Mediterranean diet arm didn't loose weight and still received the same CHD/CVD benefit. Hence the relationship is more complex and people are misled by "fat is bad" simple thinking.
#3 of course I agree. I have spent the better part of my adult life trying to cure brain cancer. That is to say, I appreciate how much we know but also how we often are surprised. Hence, a dose of humility is always a good thing.8 -
Look, it's understandable. Someone tries something (in this case keto), it works great, and so they believe it's the best way to go. They then proceed to preach to everyone about this new thing and how what anyone else is doing is wrong. Give them time...
Exactly.
When desperate people finally find something that works for them after years and years of failure, they're inspired and hopeful, for probably the first time in a long time. It's like a miracle to them. They want to sing from the rooftops. I was like that 3 years ago. I learned pretty quickly. They'll learn eventually. In the meantime, we'll hear the evangelism. It's the nature of the beast.5 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.
Which part of my comment, specifically, gave you that impression?
0 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.
Which part of my comment, specifically, gave you that impression?
It's called cherry picking. Attempting to draw correlations and extrapolating conclusions that I am sure the authors of the paper would not agree with if you were to ask them. The paper never mentions low carb diets or Keto once, as it deals specifically with fats.
So the reverse scientific method essentially, which is common among the Keto crowd. Maintain a position as valid first, and then desperately try to find evidence to justify it after the fact. That is not how it works.7 -
A couple of observations about the bolded part of your comments above. Keto/ LC dieters lose a significant amount of water weight up front but normalized over time, the fat loss is not any different than any other calories restricted method of dieting. It is the calorie deficit that caused the weight loss. Keto is just a path among many paths to get there. Given that you have IR issues, it is probably an effective path for you.#1 I actually think we are saying the same thing here. My keto WOE is a means to loose weight quickly and to restore the out of whack insulin insensitivity in my body. My planned transition to a Mediterranean diet, with fruit (fiber), milk, fish, yogurt, whole grain carbs, tomatoes, etc. will happen when I'm close to my target weight of 180 lbs. Keto gave me a kick start. But no, I don't think we have to throw out the baby with the bath water. I do think that, when folks are at an appropriate BMI, 70% of cals should come from carbs. Maybe you've just lumped me in with paleo, I see keto as a tool, not a permanent dietary state. Curious, Are you vegetarian?
#2 here I would contend you're being rather simplistic. The controversial finding which is nicely summarized in that paper is that it's more complicated than that. Of course obiesity is bad, but many subjects in the Mediterranean diet arm didn't loose weight and still received the same CHD/CVD benefit. Hence the relationship is more complex and people are misled by "fat is bad" simple thinking.
#3 of course I agree. I have spent the better part of my adult life trying to cure brain cancer. That is to say, I appreciate how much we know but also how we often are surprised. Hence, a dose of humility is always a good thing.
I can't ever imagine a scenario where I would think a diet of 70% carbs would be a good thing. The hierarchy of nutrients for max health and muscle mass preservation would be 1)protein 2)adequate fat for proper hormonal function 3) carbs with the rest. Just don't see how that could ever be accomplished with 70% carbs.
2 -
A couple of observations about the bolded part of your comments above. Keto/ LC dieters lose a significant amount of water weight up front but normalized over time, the fat loss is not any different than any other calories restricted method of dieting. It is the calorie deficit that caused the weight loss. Keto is just a path among many paths to get there. Given that you have IR issues, it is probably an effective path for you.#1 I actually think we are saying the same thing here. My keto WOE is a means to loose weight quickly and to restore the out of whack insulin insensitivity in my body. My planned transition to a Mediterranean diet, with fruit (fiber), milk, fish, yogurt, whole grain carbs, tomatoes, etc. will happen when I'm close to my target weight of 180 lbs. Keto gave me a kick start. But no, I don't think we have to throw out the baby with the bath water. I do think that, when folks are at an appropriate BMI, 70% of cals should come from carbs. Maybe you've just lumped me in with paleo, I see keto as a tool, not a permanent dietary state. Curious, Are you vegetarian?
#2 here I would contend you're being rather simplistic. The controversial finding which is nicely summarized in that paper is that it's more complicated than that. Of course obiesity is bad, but many subjects in the Mediterranean diet arm didn't loose weight and still received the same CHD/CVD benefit. Hence the relationship is more complex and people are misled by "fat is bad" simple thinking.
#3 of course I agree. I have spent the better part of my adult life trying to cure brain cancer. That is to say, I appreciate how much we know but also how we often are surprised. Hence, a dose of humility is always a good thing.
I can't ever imagine a scenario where I would think a diet of 70% carbs would be a good thing. The hierarchy of nutrients for max health and muscle mass preservation would be 1)protein 2)adequate fat for proper hormonal function 3) carbs with the rest. Just don't see how that could ever be accomplished with 70% carbs.
Oops, that was a mistype! 50% is what I meant. 45-65% is what is recommended by the Canadian food guide, for example.1 -
A couple of observations about the bolded part of your comments above. Keto/ LC dieters lose a significant amount of water weight up front but normalized over time, the fat loss is not any different than any other calories restricted method of dieting. It is the calorie deficit that caused the weight loss. Keto is just a path among many paths to get there. Given that you have IR issues, it is probably an effective path for you.#1 I actually think we are saying the same thing here. My keto WOE is a means to loose weight quickly and to restore the out of whack insulin insensitivity in my body. My planned transition to a Mediterranean diet, with fruit (fiber), milk, fish, yogurt, whole grain carbs, tomatoes, etc. will happen when I'm close to my target weight of 180 lbs. Keto gave me a kick start. But no, I don't think we have to throw out the baby with the bath water. I do think that, when folks are at an appropriate BMI, 70% of cals should come from carbs. Maybe you've just lumped me in with paleo, I see keto as a tool, not a permanent dietary state. Curious, Are you vegetarian?
#2 here I would contend you're being rather simplistic. The controversial finding which is nicely summarized in that paper is that it's more complicated than that. Of course obiesity is bad, but many subjects in the Mediterranean diet arm didn't loose weight and still received the same CHD/CVD benefit. Hence the relationship is more complex and people are misled by "fat is bad" simple thinking.
#3 of course I agree. I have spent the better part of my adult life trying to cure brain cancer. That is to say, I appreciate how much we know but also how we often are surprised. Hence, a dose of humility is always a good thing.
I can't ever imagine a scenario where I would think a diet of 70% carbs would be a good thing. The hierarchy of nutrients for max health and muscle mass preservation would be 1)protein 2)adequate fat for proper hormonal function 3) carbs with the rest. Just don't see how that could ever be accomplished with 70% carbs.
Oops, that was a mistype! 50% is what I meant. 45-65% is what is recommended by the Canadian food guide, for example.
Ah, makes sense now. I even find that to be a little high but attainable probably. I just don't think in terms of any priority on carbs. If I hit the other 2, carbs fall between 100 and 200 grams when I'm cutting and 200 and 300 grams when I'm at maintenance. They just matter the least as long as there is enough to fuel the energy level for my training.1 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.
Which part of my comment, specifically, gave you that impression?
It's called cherry picking. Attempting to draw correlations and extrapolating conclusions that I am sure the authors of the paper would not agree with if you were to ask them. The paper never mentions low carb diets or Keto once, as it deals specifically with fats.
So the reverse scientific method essentially, which is common among the Keto crowd. Maintain a position as valid first, and then desperately try to find evidence to justify it after the fact. That is not how it works.
Dude, it appears as though you're extrapolating here. Your presupposing I was using that paper to support keto. That is false. I was using it to argue that chronic overconsumption of carbs leads to insulin resistance, which was the point in dispute. That paper has nothing to do with keto.
Unfortunately, you make a false assumption, that A: people in favor of keto backfill their own preconceptions with cherry picked data, and B: sevas is on keto therefore, B=A, Sevas must be guilty of shoehorning data to fit his presuppositions. This is an example of affirming the consequent. Go back and confirm that your argument isn't based on a logical fallacy.7 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.
Which part of my comment, specifically, gave you that impression?
It's called cherry picking. Attempting to draw correlations and extrapolating conclusions that I am sure the authors of the paper would not agree with if you were to ask them. The paper never mentions low carb diets or Keto once, as it deals specifically with fats.
So the reverse scientific method essentially, which is common among the Keto crowd. Maintain a position as valid first, and then desperately try to find evidence to justify it after the fact. That is not how it works.
Dude, it appears as though you're extrapolating here. Your presupposing I was using that paper to support keto. That is false. I was using it to argue that chronic overconsumption of carbs leads to insulin resistance, which was the point in dispute. That paper has nothing to do with keto.
Unfortunately, you make a false assumption, that A: people in favor of keto backfill their own preconceptions with cherry picked data, and B: sevas is on keto therefore, B=A, Sevas must be guilty of shoehorning data to fit his presuppositions. This is an example of affirming the consequent. Go back and confirm that your argument isn't based on a logical fallacy.
Gee that is odd, considering directly before offering the citation you state "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods 'will lead to health improvements'". And then in the next breath "Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature [cites paper]"
It sounds like that is precisely what you were attempting to use the paper to justify, as it would to about any rational person that was to read what you typed.
Care to backpedal some more?
3 -
JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.JustRobby1 wrote: »Keto is how much of mankind lived for tens of thousands of years.
It is one of the most natural ways of eating for the human body and the body works best on ketones not glucose, for example your heart and brain.
Pros:
Loads of fiber, vitamins and minerals from the high intake of leafy green vegetables and other low carb vegetables. I never ate so many veggies in my life until I went on Keto!
Sharpened clarity of thinking - no more brain fog due to too many carbs.
Ward off the risk of cancer with very low carbs.
No hungry feelings anymore, because there are no longer any swings of insulin and blood sugar as I used to experience on a carb based diet.
Sustained energy throughout the day, lots of energy!
No longer craving the things I used to need a fix for, like ice cream, chocolate, and so on.
Cons:
You do need to make an effort to keep some variety going across different meals, if you're prone to getting bored. Same with lots of things in life really.
You dont reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs. There are so many types of cancers, its ridiculous and at best keto has been preliminarily shown to be beneficial with some types of brain cancers along with formal treatment.
Prevention is different than treatment. I don't think you can say "you don't reduce cancer risk by eliminating carbs" but it is safe to say that there is currently a paucity of evidence. However, inferences can be made. On a typical, obesity causing American diet, overconsumption of carbs leads to chronic insulin production (due to insensitivity) which increases inflammation. Chronic inflammation is linked to cancer in many different sites. There is a pretty good evidence base for hypothesizing that reduction of carbs leads to reduction of insulin-mediated inflammation leads to reduction in overall cancer risk. However, at this point, it is merely a hypothesis. Unlike the effect of low carbs on athlerosclerosis, which there is stronger evidence for benefit.
The american diet is highly caloric. Obesity leads to all kinds of health problems, like chronic inflammation. Carbs do not cause, chronic inflammation. Assuming so ignorea the plethora of evidence around the benefits from increase plant consumption and the blue zones.
The modeling of cancer prevent ia based on rat studies and is way to preliminary to assess with humans.
A more likely, and more demonstrated case against cancer is maintain a lean body weight, stay active, have good genetics and eat a variety of nutrient dense foods, like fish, fruits and veggies.
Your last sentence is correct, but you also underestimate the role that carbs play. It is becoming clear now from the science that "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods" will lead to health improvements. Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/15/1111
The force (woo) is strong in this one The interesting aspect is this is probably the 5th or 6th time I have seen this paper throw out there, and just like in all previous instances it would appear as though the person citing it has not read it.
Which part of my comment, specifically, gave you that impression?
It's called cherry picking. Attempting to draw correlations and extrapolating conclusions that I am sure the authors of the paper would not agree with if you were to ask them. The paper never mentions low carb diets or Keto once, as it deals specifically with fats.
So the reverse scientific method essentially, which is common among the Keto crowd. Maintain a position as valid first, and then desperately try to find evidence to justify it after the fact. That is not how it works.
Dude, it appears as though you're extrapolating here. Your presupposing I was using that paper to support keto. That is false. I was using it to argue that chronic overconsumption of carbs leads to insulin resistance, which was the point in dispute. That paper has nothing to do with keto.
Unfortunately, you make a false assumption, that A: people in favor of keto backfill their own preconceptions with cherry picked data, and B: sevas is on keto therefore, B=A, Sevas must be guilty of shoehorning data to fit his presuppositions. This is an example of affirming the consequent. Go back and confirm that your argument isn't based on a logical fallacy.
Gee that is odd, considering directly before offering the citation you state "replacing refined carbohydrates with healthy high fat foods 'will lead to health improvements'". And then in the next breath "Sorry that you have an anti-keto perspective. If you'd like to read the literature [cites paper]"
It sounds like that is precisely what you were attempting to use the paper to justify, as it would to about any rational person that was to read what you typed.
Care to backpedal some more?
I state? That was a direct quote from the paper, hence the " " (but you read it right
Sometimes, when having a robust discussion, in good faith, 'backpedaling' is necessary. We all mis-speak from time-to-time. My characterization of PSU as "anti-keto" was unfair. I made some assumptions about his/her perspective based on a few posts. I personally think you might have done the same about me. But if you honestly feel you're debating in good faith, I will take your word for it.
I'm curious now, what is your current WOE and has it worked well for you? What would you suggest, based on your knowledge of the literature, for someone looking to loose about 20 more lbs?1
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