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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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clicketykeys wrote: »I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
I find once I've written it down for a few weeks, I don't specifically need to doccument because I know what I'm trying to do. But I'm still rubbish at estimating.. say 50g of cheese on top of a dish. So the scales keep me honest with my own portion control.1 -
clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.0 -
clicketykeys wrote: »I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
I find once I've written it down for a few weeks, I don't specifically need to doccument because I know what I'm trying to do. But I'm still rubbish at estimating.. say 50g of cheese on top of a dish. So the scales keep me honest with my own portion control.
I do this too. When not logging I still weigh oats, rice, and pasta so I know I am sticking with a serving (or less if I want less). I'm terrible at eyeballing things that increase in size when cooking.
Also cheese, nuts, and ice cream.2 -
clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
I tend to get around that by using standard portions so I can remember it. For example, my lunch today will be 2 oz sandwich meat, 1 slice bread, 224 g. plain Greek yogurt, and a small apple. The apple is the only thing I need to remember before logging. Everything is already in "Recent" so I just have to check the box. You only have to find an accurate entry once. I use the USDA entries for any whole food so accurate ones are really easy to find.
Also, my food also goes directly from the container to the cooking or serving dish. I place the dish on the scale and dump stuff on.
I make a lot of stews and casseroles. I play with the recipe first in the recipe builder, print it out to take to the kitchen, write down any changes, and make the MFP changes next time I am on my computer.4 -
My unpopular opinion: Glorifying suffering and a "never quit" mentality, particularly in extreme endurance sports, is a terrible idea.
We should applaud those who make a sensible choice to quit rather than risking serious injury. That choice is hard enough, we should not make it any more difficult.12 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »My unpopular opinion: Glorifying suffering and a "never quit" mentality, particularly in extreme endurance sports, is a terrible idea.
We should applaud those who make a sensible choice to quit rather than risking serious injury. That choice is hard enough, we should not make it any more difficult.
^Agreed.
Though I don't perceive this "never quit" attitude as much as I did back in the '80's. It's part of what made me hate exercise back then.
Then again, I'm older now and more inclined to not care what other people think. I have my limitations and am just fine, thankyouverymuch, doing my best within those limits.4 -
[/quote]
This, this and this too for me. Also, what you eat matters - there's good foods and bad foods.
[/quote]
This. There are junk foods. [/quote]
I don't think you're allowed to say that on MFP. You're allowed to eat cocaine laced with gasoline as long as you measure it to the gram on a food scale and fit the calories into your day.[/quote]
Omg I ❤️ this!!!
I cannot stand "those" people on here who's mission in life is to roam the forums and berate anyone who challenges the dogma of "if it fits in your macros" then it's good for you. It might even be true but my lord they are annoying. I was and am a strict CICO person but those type make me want to change my view.28 -
This, this and this too for me. Also, what you eat matters - there's good foods and bad foods.
[/quote]
This. There are junk foods. [/quote]
I don't think you're allowed to say that on MFP. You're allowed to eat cocaine laced with gasoline as long as you measure it to the gram on a food scale and fit the calories into your day.[/quote]
Omg I ❤️ this!!!
I cannot stand "those" people on here who's mission in life is to roam the forums and berate anyone who challenges the dogma of "if it fits in your macros" then it's good for you. It might even be true but my lord they are annoying. I was and am a strict CICO person but those type make me want to change my view. [/quote]
I have yet to see anyone say "iifym it's good for you"...I often hear...IIFYM and you are still in a deficit then by all means have some ice cream or cake or chips it won't kill you.15 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »My unpopular opinion: Glorifying suffering and a "never quit" mentality, particularly in extreme endurance sports, is a terrible idea.
We should applaud those who make a sensible choice to quit rather than risking serious injury. That choice is hard enough, we should not make it any more difficult.
I agree. There is a point of stupidity.
But (IMO) quite a few people quit too soon. After one builds a base of fitness, if the body shouldn't or can't, IME it simply won't. One's mind likes to shut things down early. It's an evolutionary (over)protective mechanism. Discomfort is not pain, and things that subjectively 'hurt' are not necessarily causing injury. (Just to make it fun, things that injure also don't reliably warn by hurting.)
IMO, once in a while it's good - given the base fitness to make it safe - to take your body out for a test drive and see what it can do, experimental-like. It's useful to know where the actual boundaries are. As a martial artist, I learned to value distinguishing pain from injury. As an endurance athlete, the interesting boundary was "can't" vs. "don't like to".
My opinion only (and I'm just some random li'l ol' lady on the internet). Others should always quit when they think it's right.3 -
Omg I ❤️ this!!!
I cannot stand "those" people on here who's mission in life is to roam the forums and berate anyone who challenges the dogma of "if it fits in your macros" then it's good for you. It might even be true but my lord they are annoying. I was and am a strict CICO person but those type make me want to change my view.
I can somewhat relate to what you’re saying. I can’t stand when people, either maliciously or through failure to understand, twist things like IIFYM out of context and then rail against something they imagine other people have said, which is not at all what those people said in the first place. It’s annoying, it’s disingenuous and it benefits nobody.31 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
I don't see the extra step.
I would often prepare the food prior to cooking anyway...so putting the bowl on the scale isn't a huge deal.
In the stir fry example...all the veggies go in a bowl while the other items cook...as I don't chop on the counter and don't have room on my cutting board for the veggies after cut...seems like a good place for them...a bowl...on a scale....
ETA: and today I have an apple...honey crisp...put it on the scale before I left work...324 grams...(it's huge) I am not going to save the leavings to weigh when I get home...so no two steps there either...
However I am in the camp of "it's not for me to understand everything but to accept the differences"0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
It's not really an extra dirty bowl. I like to semi mis en place, so would often pre chop and put some things in a bowl.
Putting them on the scale is an extra step (I remember the weights and note them down, but that's like a memory exercise that I find enjoyable). It doesn't FEEL like any added burden to me at all. It's fun.
Again, I accept that it does feel like an added burden or bothersome to you, even if I don't understand it. (I also don't care if you want to weigh or not -- I am not currently logging so I sometimes weigh, sometimes don't, don't write anything down.) What I find odd is someone who logs and measures in some other way insisting that using the scale makes it neurotic and burdensome. Or someone who doesn't track at all but uses a different strategy (which is me, currently) insisting that people who enjoy logging are doing it wrong.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
Got it. You find it bothersome and you don't want to do it. I don't think there is any lack of clarity around that at this point. It's your life, do what you prefer. Just as I found it odd when people kept countering your desire not to measure, I find it odd that you keep restating it. If you don't want to do what Lemurcat does, don't. Simple2 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
Got it. You find it bothersome and you don't want to do it. I don't think there is any lack of clarity around that at this point. It's your life, do what you prefer. Just as I found it odd when people kept countering your desire not to measure, I find it odd that you keep restating it. If you don't want to do what Lemurcat does, don't. Simple
Why is it odd than I keep responding with my preferences but not that others keep responding to me with theirs?
5 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »My unpopular opinion: Glorifying suffering and a "never quit" mentality, particularly in extreme endurance sports, is a terrible idea.
We should applaud those who make a sensible choice to quit rather than risking serious injury. That choice is hard enough, we should not make it any more difficult.
I agree, I spent decades suffering under this mentality, pushing through injuries and making them more severe. I would have avoided being sidelined for weeks and months at a time if I just stopped as soon as I felt a minor injury instead of persisting. This also extended beyond exercising to other aspects of my life like attendance at work, where I would come into work no matter how sick I was because I was not lazy or a quitter.5 -
This. There are junk foods. [/quote]
I don't think you're allowed to say that on MFP. You're allowed to eat cocaine laced with gasoline as long as you measure it to the gram on a food scale and fit the calories into your day.[/quote]
Omg I ❤️ this!!!
I cannot stand "those" people on here who's mission in life is to roam the forums and berate anyone who challenges the dogma of "if it fits in your macros" then it's good for you. It might even be true but my lord they are annoying. I was and am a strict CICO person but those type make me want to change my view. [/quote]
I have yet to see anyone say "iifym it's good for you"...I often hear...IIFYM and you are still in a deficit then by all means have some ice cream or cake or chips it won't kill you.[/quote]
LOL this is great... It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are brainwashed "true believers" here. Somehow the incredibly complex human digestive system, hormonal response, energy production, thermogenesis, and wildly varying metabolic rates (across time, and person to person) can be boiled down with 100% confidence to a 2nd grade arithmetic equation. (one heavily endorsed and promoted by Coca-Cola and the sugar and corn industry!)
IMHO what you eat (macros and the GI of your carbs) influences body composition just as much as how much (calories) you eat and burn (exercise) does to your weight on the scale.
I myself am far more interested in body composition than weight! Skinny-fat is not a state most aspire to, nor is it healthy.28 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
Got it. You find it bothersome and you don't want to do it. I don't think there is any lack of clarity around that at this point. It's your life, do what you prefer. Just as I found it odd when people kept countering your desire not to measure, I find it odd that you keep restating it. If you don't want to do what Lemurcat does, don't. Simple
Why is it odd than I keep responding with my preferences but not that others keep responding to me with theirs?
I think it's more that we are wondering why everyone needs to have the last word on this.
To. Each. Their. Own. :flowerforyou;5 -
crap :flowerforyou:4
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
Got it. You find it bothersome and you don't want to do it. I don't think there is any lack of clarity around that at this point. It's your life, do what you prefer. Just as I found it odd when people kept countering your desire not to measure, I find it odd that you keep restating it. If you don't want to do what Lemurcat does, don't. Simple
Why is it odd than I keep responding with my preferences but not that others keep responding to me with theirs?
As I said, if you reread my post more closely, I find both odd. Also, every other response is not necessarily directed to you. It is people just giving their point of view.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
Got it. You find it bothersome and you don't want to do it. I don't think there is any lack of clarity around that at this point. It's your life, do what you prefer. Just as I found it odd when people kept countering your desire not to measure, I find it odd that you keep restating it. If you don't want to do what Lemurcat does, don't. Simple
Why is it odd than I keep responding with my preferences but not that others keep responding to me with theirs?
I think it's more that we are wondering why everyone needs to have the last word on this.
To. Each. Their. Own. :flowerforyou;
Exactly!1 -
You messed up the quotations (or someone did at some point), so I'd editing to highlight SezxyStef's comment to which you were responding, and then your response @jamesakrobinsonjamesakrobinson wrote: »I have yet to see anyone say "iifym it's good for you"...I often hear...IIFYM and you are still in a deficit then by all means have some ice cream or cake or chips it won't kill you.
LOL this is great... It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are brainwashed "true believers" here. Somehow the incredibly complex human digestive system, hormonal response, energy production, thermogenesis, and wildly varying metabolic rates (across time, and person to person) can be boiled down with 100% confidence to a 2nd grade arithmetic equation. (one heavily endorsed and promoted by Coca-Cola and the sugar and corn industry!)
Could you please clarify how what Stef said = being brainwashed or saying nothing else matters (for nutrition or health, anyway) but calories? Because I am not seeing it, and I think this is really the problem, a lot of people, as you just did, make up strawmen to argue against or misconstrue posts.
You go on:IMHO what you eat (macros and the GI of your carbs) influences body composition just as much as how much (calories) you eat and burn (exercise) does to your weight on the scale.
I've never seen any evidence that GI matters for body composition. I have seen correspondences between a low GI diet and health (keeping carbs at the same level), but I believe that has nothing to do with GI (which is going to vary based on what you eat the foods with) and more because the average lower GI carb tends to be more nutrient dense (since we are including lots of vegetables). Doesn't mean there's anything bad about higher GI carbs, and indeed rice and potatoes and sweet potatoes and, yes, even pasta, can be a great way to fuel a progressive weight training program, as well as tasty. Same with some higher GI fruits, like bananas.
Anyway, I DO think that getting adequate protein is helpful for body composition, but other things make much more of a difference, like doing strength exercises and not having too aggressive a deficit, especially as one is no longer overweight.
I have not seen anything credible suggesting that macros matter beyond getting enough protein (and more protein may be required to be enough for these purposes if one is very low carb). I certainly have not seen anything that suggests that what Stef was talking about -- having some occasional ice cream OR cake OR chips if one can do so in a deficit (and sure, without sacrificing protein, which isn't tough) -- is a problem, as you seem to suggest.
Care to clarify?I myself am far more interested in body composition than weight! Skinny-fat is not a state most aspire to, nor is it healthy.
I'm also more interested in that, once at a normal weight, anyway, which is why I always advise people not to have too aggressive a deficit and to consume enough protein. I also think health matters. And I think that beyond getting enough protein and having an overall healthy diet (i.e., enough vegetables) and a good exercise program, not much else matters. The claim that you need to give up ice cream or chips or whatever is unsupported and misleading.9 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
Got it. You find it bothersome and you don't want to do it. I don't think there is any lack of clarity around that at this point. It's your life, do what you prefer. Just as I found it odd when people kept countering your desire not to measure, I find it odd that you keep restating it. If you don't want to do what Lemurcat does, don't. Simple
Why is it odd than I keep responding with my preferences but not that others keep responding to me with theirs?
As I said, if you reread my post more closely, I find both odd. Also, every other response is not necessarily directed to you. It is people just giving their point of view.
Need2 seems to think that people are trying to convince her to weigh or not to find it burdensome, and that certainly is not my intent or what I perceive others to be doing. I imagine HOW we cook determines what seems burdensome or not, as well as personality, so there will be differences. (But sometimes there is a temptation to clarify why what you are talking about is not as portrayed if it seems someone else is misunderstanding. I cop to this.)2 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Skinny-fat is not a state most aspire to, nor is it healthy.
Is there evidence to back up saying skinny-fat is not healthy?2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »clicketykeys wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's weird how people default to the weighing as unhealthy and not the logging itself. I don't think either is unhealthy, but I do think GottaBurnEmAll has a point that it must be unfamiliarity with the scale as a common tool or, in some cases, with cooking. I find weighing is more convenient than cups and do it for many things when not logging (or counting calories), and used a scale for baking pre weight loss. (I actually had put it in the back of a closet after I stopped baking regularly and then when I decided to lose weight didn't use it and then much later decided to drag it out and found it made logging easier.)
For me, since I chop and so on when cooking, adding a step of placing a bowl on the scale and putting things in before tossing them in a pan is easy, almost not noticeable as extra work. Logging IS much more burdensome to me, but in part it's because it (or something similar and in my mind equally burdensome, like writing down everything I eat in a spreadsheet) makes me stay mindful when I want to not think about eating choices.
And whether I weigh, log, or use some other tool, the fact is that for me if I don't stay mindful, I start gaining weight and can easily slip back into emotional eating too.
I use this same approach. It was also part of how I worked as a chef. You want to be portioning correctly for consistency and cost control. Easy enough to transition to doing it at home.
This is interesting. I watch cooking shows on TV and you rarely see those chefs using any type of measurement and I don't think I've ever seen them use a scale.
I've seen it quite frequently. Good Eats immediately comes to mind; so does just about any European cook.
Never watched Good Eats but I have seen several European chef hosted shows (US shows hosted by Europeans) and while they usually give ingredients in grams I've never seen one weigh anything. They also eyeball it on the shows.
That's because it is all pre-weighed off camera. If the recipe ingredients are given in weights, be assured that the chef/host cooks by weight.
So even when they chop it on camera and throw it in a pot you think they are using camera tricks to weigh it off camera?
Nope. You are talking cooking where ingredients frequently do not get weighed. Baking is a completely different story and everything gets weighed on the shows, just off camera. When the host dumps flour from a bag, it is just for show. No camera tricks needed, they have several of the same dish in varying steps of completion and just take out the one that pertains to the steps they are currently talking about.
Oh I never watch baking shows.
The thing with cooking savoury meals is you often don't need to measure and weigh ingredients. If I'm not counting calories, I cook almost completely by feel. It generally means I never make the same meal the same way twice, but they always taste good. It's just years of experience, both personal and professional, where I know what works and what doesn't. But weighing and measuring, when I am calorie counting, adds very little time and trouble and the thing is, I still cook by feel - I weigh the amount that I would put in anyway, rather than putting in a specific amount by weight, if that makes sense.
I'm sure it all makes sense to/for you. But my experience with weighing ingredients was different. I realize "very little time" is a subjective phrase but it felt time consuming to me to weigh ingredients. But more than the time it was annoying. It sucked the fun out of cooking for me, and cooking is a great source of pleasure for me. Honestly, I would rather have stayed overweight than weighed ingredients when cooking.
I don't see why any of us "weigh everything" scale fans want to convert you. If you're happier not weighing things, and you're able to be successful (at your goals, be they weight management, nutrition, or whatever), then I think that's great.
I do, however, want to argue with these ideas, if presented ( you didn't present them), because I think they're inaccurate- Weighing food is inherently somehow psychologically dysfunctional.
- If people do weigh food, it 'should' only be temporary.
- Weighing food is more time-consuming than cups and spoons.
- Weighing food is inherently and objectively quite time consuming - by implication, enough so that it's a bad use of anyone's time.
- That people who aren't weighing food but "can't lose even though they're only eating 1200" (or some such) are being misled if scale-lovers like me advise them to start weighing food as a way to establish a more accurate calorie estimate.
- Weighing food produces exact or near exact calorie figures.
- To be successful, one must weigh every bite, including at friends'/relatives' homes and restaurants (or not go/eat there)
- Everyone interested in weight management must weigh food, temporarily if not permanently.
Counterfactual evangelizing and overgeneralizing from personal experience are examples of flawed reasoning.
And some people who "can't lose weight" but won't even try weighing food because it's obsessive or too time-consuming . . . they're sometimes just constructing themselves a handy excuse to quit trying.
All of this.
And because I AM neurotic in some ways, I feel compelled to say, since Need2 said "I feel now that I want to know why everyone is so annoyed by my annoyance as much as they want to know why I'm annoyed," that I quite specifically and directly said that I was not annoyed by Need2's thinking that for her weighing is burdensome. I am only annoyed by those who insist that everyone must find weighing burdensome (more so than measuring in other ways).
I am interested in a non-annoyed way in WHY it seems burdensome to put things on the scale and am wondering if there is an assumption that we must trying to hit certain targets or cooking to a recipe, but I also realize it might just be one of those people are different and you can't explain it kind of things.
I find it a chore because there's no point in JUST putting it on the scale. It's that PLUS measuring it PLUS writing it down PLUS finding an accurate entry in the database PLUS entering it in the diary. For every ingredient. I'm a lazy cook. I don't bake, so I don't have to measure. When I cook, most of the ingredients can go from the container directly into the cooking dish, which also saves on washing up.
To be clear, I totally get why logging seems burdensome sometimes. I find it burdensome sometimes too, and generally don't do it at maintenance for that reason. It's the people who seem to think estimating or measuring with cups is less burdensome than weighing (and weighing therefore is neurotic) that confuse me. I find estimating or using cups more burdensome (and I hate estimating so rarely even log restaurant stuff, I just say 1000 cal or some such).
When I cook -- and I'm honestly trying to understand what other process there would be -- I get out the ingredients I decide to use (and usually this is a spur of the moment what seems like it would taste good together and happens to be in my refrigerator sort of thing) and then cook, but the weighing isn't an issue.
Example -- stir fry with shrimp. I put rice in the rice cooker (putting the rice cooker bowl on the scale and pouring in rice). Then I put a little oil in the pan (I'd use a tsp or tbsp for this, probably), and start chopping veg (or if I'm organized I might chop some before). For each ingredient I add, I chop up what I want, tare, and put the ingredient on the bowl or plate that is sitting on the scale, toss in pan. I note the weight on an envelope.
I'm NOT advocating this, I don't care, I don't currently log myself. I just don't see how the weighing bit adds burden.
Even that example seems bothersome to me. 2 unnecessary steps per ingredient and one extra dirty bowl. For what? I guess it's the "for what" part that I can't get past. Doing things that I feel don't need done is not for me.
And that's the easy stuff. There are times you'd need to weigh twice to be even close to accurate. A fruit with a pit or core that won't be eaten, bone-in meat, etc.
Got it. You find it bothersome and you don't want to do it. I don't think there is any lack of clarity around that at this point. It's your life, do what you prefer. Just as I found it odd when people kept countering your desire not to measure, I find it odd that you keep restating it. If you don't want to do what Lemurcat does, don't. Simple
Why is it odd than I keep responding with my preferences but not that others keep responding to me with theirs?
As I said, if you reread my post more closely, I find both odd. Also, every other response is not necessarily directed to you. It is people just giving their point of view.
Need2 seems to think that people are trying to convince her to weigh or not to find it burdensome, and that certainly is not my intent or what I perceive others to be doing. I imagine HOW we cook determines what seems burdensome or not, as well as personality, so there will be differences. (But sometimes there is a temptation to clarify why what you are talking about is not as portrayed if it seems someone else is misunderstanding. I cop to this.)
I do think some were doing that. Well, maybe not that exactly but there was definitely a "you're weird for not doing it" type vibe. Which is fine. I've been called weird enough in my life to believe the statement has merit.7 -
Yeah, a diet of Pringles and Snickers is why some people are skinny fat. Not the lack of strength training at all........10
-
jamesakrobinson wrote: »
LOL this is great... It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are brainwashed "true believers" here. Somehow the incredibly complex human digestive system, hormonal response, energy production, thermogenesis, and wildly varying metabolic rates (across time, and person to person) can be boiled down with 100% confidence to a 2nd grade arithmetic equation. (one heavily endorsed and promoted by Coca-Cola and the sugar and corn industry!)
IMHO what you eat (macros and the GI of your carbs) influences body composition just as much as how much (calories) you eat and burn (exercise) does to your weight on the scale.
I myself am far more interested in body composition than weight! Skinny-fat is not a state most aspire to, nor is it healthy.
Here's the thing though. So while I do agree that macros are important for body composition changes, calories are always king because they will dictate the overall energy balance. You can eat as clean as you want, micromanage all your macro and micronutrients to the gram, but if you are eating more than you burn, you will not lose. Same thing if you are trying to gain weight. I can eat 400g of protein a day but if I'm not in a surplus overtime, I will not gain. If you can find a way for me to gain weight without eating in a surplus, please let me know because 3000+ cals per day gets old fast (and yes, I have tried to eat high sugar, tons of treats, super high carbs, nope...if I am not in surplus, scale goes down).
7 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Yeah, a diet of Pringles and Snickers is why some people are skinny fat. Not the lack of strength training at all........
I guess he's never heard about The Twinkie Diet?
3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »
LOL this is great... It never ceases to amaze me how so many people are brainwashed "true believers" here. Somehow the incredibly complex human digestive system, hormonal response, energy production, thermogenesis, and wildly varying metabolic rates (across time, and person to person) can be boiled down with 100% confidence to a 2nd grade arithmetic equation. (one heavily endorsed and promoted by Coca-Cola and the sugar and corn industry!)
IMHO what you eat (macros and the GI of your carbs) influences body composition just as much as how much (calories) you eat and burn (exercise) does to your weight on the scale.
I myself am far more interested in body composition than weight! Skinny-fat is not a state most aspire to, nor is it healthy.
"There was convincing evidence that energy balance is critical to maintaining healthy
body weight and ensuring optimal nutrient intakes, regardless of macronutrient
distribution expressed in energy percentage (%E). "
http://foris.fao.org/preview/25553-0ece4cb94ac52f9a25af77ca5cfba7a8c.pdf
I'm really getting a lot of ROI out of bookmarking this.12 -
It is 2017 and people still pine on about GI. LOL
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v71/n3/abs/ejcn2016230a.html?foxtrotcallback=true#abs
"Diet-induced hyperinsulinemia may lead to a higher fat storage only at a positive energy balance"7
This discussion has been closed.
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