November 2017 Running Challenge
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PastorVincent wrote: »That would mean an extra week of taper though (between the runs). Ugh.
That's not a taper at that point, it's a recovery, and a short one at that.
ssssshhhhhh.... we're trying to get him to do both... I mean, I ran my first trail marathon 4 weeks after my first ever marathon.... he's more experienced, he can do it2 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »@PastorVincent you need to take off that 30k option off your race list. You know that @JessicaMcB and I are going to talk you into the 50k.
HA! I am seriously thinking about it... if it was not SIX DAYS after my planned PR attempt Pittsburgh Marathon, I would do it for sure. Also, it would be my first trail race ever - and I was told it was a "technical trail" (3rd hand though)- not sure what that means, but I assume that means it is hard.
technical just means rocks/roots to dodge or jump over. Probably single track. Hard is in the eye of the beholder.
Also, you're talking to someone that let the thought of trying to get into Boston, which is like 4 days after my ultra, get into their head...... 50k after a marathon? with a 11 hour time limit? You can do it!
That would mean an extra week of taper though (between the runs). Ugh.
If that's your best argument, you're doomed. We've got you.
How do you train for a 50k trail race? I guess just like a Marathon? Distance is not that much father, and I already get plenty of hills in probably. Already planned to push up my long runs for Marathon training.
My first Marathon - I skipped the last 6 miles of water (never saw the tables!) and nearly collapsed at the finish line. They tried to get me to the medical tent, but I refused (was too dehydrated to think clearly). After 10 or so dixie cups of Gatorade, I felt better, but my legs were pretty worthless. Curbs were impassible barriers.
DOMS just about sent me to the hospital. No one warned me about that and it struct at like 2 am. Was pretty scary.
My Second Marathon I carried 40oz of water with me just in case that happened again but ran over 27 miles instead of just 26. The pace was about the same as first race, but slower time due to the extra mile. Did not experience DOMS and feel like finished with gas in the tank still. Well, my last mile was 2+ minutes faster than my average pace so I must have had some in the tank. No DOMS from it.
So based on that part of my plan is to push my pace runs more and more into the "long run" territory. I am confident I have a sub-4 marathon in me. Maybe even 3:40s. Just need to find it.
So all that to say, I guess that same training would work for the 50k.1 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »That would mean an extra week of taper though (between the runs). Ugh.
That's not a taper at that point, it's a recovery, and a short one at that.
ssssshhhhhh.... we're trying to get him to do both... I mean, I ran my first trail marathon 4 weeks after my first ever marathon.... he's more experienced, he can do it
FOUR WEEKS!!! SEEE!!!! 6 days IS too fast.0 -
fitoverfortymom wrote: »In theory, trail running is something that I would enjoy, but I live in the foothills near Denver, CO, so trail running here is really code for "running up a big *kitten* mountain." I wish we had flat, meandering dirt paths with a few rolling hills baked in, but nope, we have the Rocky *kitten* Mountains.
@fitoverfortymom - not too far from Denver - depending on where in Denver you are, I guess... is the Greenland open space at larkspur. I have ran a trail race there twice- the race course has one pretty good "fml" type hill, but other wise it's nice rolling trail track type stuff.... and it has lots of trail choices other than the way they take the race route.
Fair warning, it can look like either of the pics below the end of April... so I would perhaps investigate it this next summer??? And not put it down for a mid winter activity.
@hanlonsk Larkspur isn't too terribly far. Definitely good for earmarking for later...if it's a mild winter, it could potentially be clear.0 -
PastorVincent wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »That would mean an extra week of taper though (between the runs). Ugh.
That's not a taper at that point, it's a recovery, and a short one at that.
ssssshhhhhh.... we're trying to get him to do both... I mean, I ran my first trail marathon 4 weeks after my first ever marathon.... he's more experienced, he can do it
FOUR WEEKS!!! SEEE!!!! 6 days IS too fast.
So I placed at Eddie's 6 day after running Banff Marathon @PastorVincent and ran a decent enough time on 100k of tech two weeks after placing at Whistler that if it had been a race I could have held my own. So I sort of declare fake news on the hard and fast beliefs surrounding recovery and taper- if they were absolutes I would probably be dead or the greatest DNFer that ever lived . You know your body, how trashed were you after your last full outside of DOMs? Did you baby yourself too long afterward (I feel like some people I know irl *kitten* out for too long and it negatively impacts their bounce back)? Where can you tune in your training to shut that down if you do back to back it? What will the ultra (and trail racing in general) bring you that road running never can? Things to think about...
Alternate thought, but if the marathon PR is only for your own satisfaction and not as a secondary race qualification then you could run the full but prioritize the 50k as the A race and take your 42.2 splits from that race as your marathon PR provided the run time jibes.
Idk, personally I find pushing distance transcendent (ahhh the distance sickness), so for me it would kind of suck to avoid taking the gamble on the ultra just to PR on a road 42.2 when I already knew I had that distance in me. Do the *kitten* that scares you- thats almost always where you belonged anyway
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JessicaMcB wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »That would mean an extra week of taper though (between the runs). Ugh.
That's not a taper at that point, it's a recovery, and a short one at that.
ssssshhhhhh.... we're trying to get him to do both... I mean, I ran my first trail marathon 4 weeks after my first ever marathon.... he's more experienced, he can do it
FOUR WEEKS!!! SEEE!!!! 6 days IS too fast.
So I placed at Eddie's 6 day after running Banff Marathon @PastorVincent and ran a decent enough time on 100k of tech two weeks after placing at Whistler that if it had been a race I could have held my own. So I sort of declare fake news on the hard and fast beliefs surrounding recovery and taper- if they were absolutes I would probably be dead or the greatest DNFer that ever lived . You know your body, how trashed were you after your last full outside of DOMs? Did you baby yourself too long afterward (I feel like some people I know irl *kitten* out for too long and it negatively impacts their bounce back)? Where can you tune in your training to shut that down if you do back to back it? What will the ultra (and trail racing in general) bring you that road running never can? Things to think about...
Alternate thought, but if the marathon PR is only for your own satisfaction and not as a secondary race qualification then you could run the full but prioritize the 50k as the A race and take your 42.2 splits from that race as your marathon PR provided the run time jibes.
Idk, personally I find pushing distance transcendent (ahhh the distance sickness), so for me it would kind of suck to avoid taking the gamble on the ultra just to PR on a road 42.2 when I already knew I had that distance in me. Do the *kitten* that scares you- thats almost always where you belonged anyway
To answer your question will not help my case but after second marathon well I sort of skipped the recovery instructions... only too like a day and a half off of running.
As for the PR - I want to know what I can do. Simple as that.0 -
PastorVincent wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »That would mean an extra week of taper though (between the runs). Ugh.
That's not a taper at that point, it's a recovery, and a short one at that.
ssssshhhhhh.... we're trying to get him to do both... I mean, I ran my first trail marathon 4 weeks after my first ever marathon.... he's more experienced, he can do it
FOUR WEEKS!!! SEEE!!!! 6 days IS too fast.
So I placed at Eddie's 6 day after running Banff Marathon @PastorVincent and ran a decent enough time on 100k of tech two weeks after placing at Whistler that if it had been a race I could have held my own. So I sort of declare fake news on the hard and fast beliefs surrounding recovery and taper- if they were absolutes I would probably be dead or the greatest DNFer that ever lived . You know your body, how trashed were you after your last full outside of DOMs? Did you baby yourself too long afterward (I feel like some people I know irl *kitten* out for too long and it negatively impacts their bounce back)? Where can you tune in your training to shut that down if you do back to back it? What will the ultra (and trail racing in general) bring you that road running never can? Things to think about...
Alternate thought, but if the marathon PR is only for your own satisfaction and not as a secondary race qualification then you could run the full but prioritize the 50k as the A race and take your 42.2 splits from that race as your marathon PR provided the run time jibes.
Idk, personally I find pushing distance transcendent (ahhh the distance sickness), so for me it would kind of suck to avoid taking the gamble on the ultra just to PR on a road 42.2 when I already knew I had that distance in me. Do the *kitten* that scares you- thats almost always where you belonged anyway
To answer your question will not help my case but after second marathon well I sort of skipped the recovery instructions... only too like a day and a half off of running.
As for the PR - I want to know what I can do. Simple as that.
To be honest part of this is that I am in my 40s now and it is not clear how many years left of improvement I have -especially given my various medical conditions. Shrugs. If I do not try now, who knows how many more chances I will have.1 -
Ended up doing Tabatas last night at the gym -- those are getting seriously addicting.
I remember the first day the trainer showed them to me I thought there's no way I can do these! Now I can't seem to stop myself from doing them instead of lifting. But Friday I shall do a regular lift session.
Just a fun little 4 miles in my neighborhood at the usual 4:30am today. Ready for some cooler weather to get here.
11/1 - 4 miles
11/2 - Strength training - tabatas - push ups/pull ups/sit ups and wall squats
11/3 - rest day and fly to NY!
11/4 - 4.5 (5K and then a run from daughter’s apt to my hotel)
11/5 - 5.0 Astoria run
11/6 - 5.0 Astoria run #2
11/7 - rest day and fly back to Orlando
11/8 - Strength training/Tabatas - added in dips for 5 sets of tabatas.
11/9 - 4 miles
I/ITSEC 5K in Orlando - 11/29
Daytona Beach HM - 2/4/19
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Haven't ran for two days. Just my luck, caught the flu 8 days before the half marathon.
Will have to miss my last long run as well, hopefully the extra rest helps me. 0 -
PastorVincent wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »That would mean an extra week of taper though (between the runs). Ugh.
That's not a taper at that point, it's a recovery, and a short one at that.
ssssshhhhhh.... we're trying to get him to do both... I mean, I ran my first trail marathon 4 weeks after my first ever marathon.... he's more experienced, he can do it
FOUR WEEKS!!! SEEE!!!! 6 days IS too fast.
nice try. nope, not buying it. you already have marathon experience, and know how to recover. it's all about mindset. Only reason mine was 4 weeks was that that was the schedule......you can do it, you just have to run smart, the time limit on the 50k means you could walk quickly and finish under cut off......1 -
PastorVincent wrote: »
To answer your question will not help my case but after second marathon well I sort of skipped the recovery instructions... only too like a day and a half off of running.
As for the PR - I want to know what I can do. Simple as that.
To be honest part of this is that I am in my 40s now and it is not clear how many years left of improvement I have -especially given my various medical conditions. Shrugs. If I do not try now, who knows how many more chances I will have. [/quote]
PR's are nice, but you know you can go 26.2, so a PR while nice might not tell you anything about yourself.... going for 31.1 is a new distance, you'll be dipping your toes in to the kiddie pool of ultra running. Way cooler IMO.... unless your focus is road. That's something you kind of do need to decide....ok, ok, I'll stop going all hippie trail runner now....
You can start going for ultra, or concentrate on road, though going for ultra will lead to speed increases on road, and you can train for BOTH by running trails. My coach has his road runners run trails and has us trail junkies running speedwork on the road. They go hand in hand...0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »ABabilonia wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »ABabilonia wrote: »11/2: 4.8
11/3: 3
11/5: 8
11/8: 4 miles (Note to myself, when it is 43~ degrees outside, don’t wear a hat)
19.8 miles so far...
Nice running and, yeah, a hat is overkill for 43.
Thanks Yeah definitely overkill. I know better for the future now.
You might find that down into the 30s you don't need a hat.
I find that the wind is more of a factor than temp. It's been 45ish, windy and overcast the last few days and seemingly very cold. Today is 33, sunny, no wind and it feels much warmer than it has the last few days. I can do this all winter long!
I think I'll devise a formula incorporating all these factors that result in a "how to dress" code. 1 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »ABabilonia wrote: »MNLittleFinn wrote: »ABabilonia wrote: »11/2: 4.8
11/3: 3
11/5: 8
11/8: 4 miles (Note to myself, when it is 43~ degrees outside, don’t wear a hat)
19.8 miles so far...
Nice running and, yeah, a hat is overkill for 43.
Thanks Yeah definitely overkill. I know better for the future now.
You might find that down into the 30s you don't need a hat.
I find that the wind is more of a factor than temp. It's been 45ish, windy and overcast the last few days and seemingly very cold. Today is 33, sunny, no wind and it feels much warmer than it has the last few days. I can do this all winter long!
I think I'll devise a formula incorporating all these factors that result in a "how to dress" code.
Sounds good to me. You do that.0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »PR's are nice, but you know you can go 26.2, so a PR while nice might not tell you anything about yourself.... going for 31.1 is a new distance, you'll be dipping your toes in to the kiddie pool of ultra running. Way cooler IMO.... unless your focus is road. That's something you kind of do need to decide....ok, ok, I'll stop going all hippie trail runner now....
You can start going for ultra, or concentrate on road, though going for ultra will lead to speed increases on road, and you can train for BOTH by running trails. My coach has his road runners run trails and has us trail junkies running speedwork on the road. They go hand in hand...
I would start trail TODAY if there were trails in striking distance (given my resources and schedule which are very finite and very full). I have about a mile worth of tail on my 8-10 mile mid-week runs and I try to hit it twice. Even yesterday when it was muddy and my poor little toes got wet.
I run the roads out of necessity, not preference. Everything is here paved. Even the park that I loop in has like 2 miles of "trails" but they are paved. And flat. I loop it in cause the scenery is great, and they have bathrooms and water fountains.
I am going for a PR at Pittsburgh 2018. That I am settled on and already paid in full for. It will be my wife's first full. So after I get my PR
, I will walk back along the course (cutting corners and stuff) to find her and then run with her for whatever she has left. That will make the run an ultra. 
It is my tradition. I am aiming for a sub-9 pace, and she will probably be 11:30-12 area pace. So I will have plenty of extra miles with her when I find her. We do this at all races, but so far 10 miles is the longest race we have run together - so this will be a new level of pain for me.
I might go for a 50k the following weekend, or might do a 30k - but I am planning on doing one of them. It will be my first trail race since I left HS (did XC in HS, but that was decades ago) so I am a bit excited about it.4 -
November 1 – 5.28 miles
November 3 – 5.01 miles
November 5 – 17.13 miles (trail run from Damascus to White Top, VA – all up hill!)
November 6 – 4.35 miles
November 8 – 6 miles
I'm late to the game but my goal for November is 120 miles. I've lurked here off and on for several months but decided to take the leap and join in. I'm a slow runner and hesitate to tell people that I'm a runner. I always get those up and down looks - yes, I know I don't look like the typical lean mean running machine, but I do what I can. Looking forward to the support and accountability!
Heading to Richmond this weekend to run the half. I was signed up for the full (did it in 2014) but after running the Detroit full last month, I swore off them for a while!
Teresa5 -
@PastorVincent go for the 50k. What's the worst that can happen? Think about that and decide if it's worth it. Most people aren't @JessicaMcB and me, we normally think almost any outcome is worth it, it's about pushing the limits. Not sure of she's the same way but, for myself, I'm OK with risking time off due to something happening, if the possible result is something epic...... Kind of why, if I had the time off and finances, I'd apply for one of the teacher spots at Boston 2018, even though it's 2 days after my Zumbro run.
Now, I will say that this approach is NOT for everyone. it takes a certain kind of crazy. if you have any doubts, don't go for it. doubts can lead to more problems than overconfidence does.1 -
11/1 - 8 miles
11/2 - 0 miles
11/3 - 0 miles
11/4 - 3 miles of horrible
11/5 – 10 miles of awesome
11/6 – 0 miles
11/7 – 6 miles
11/8 - 0 miles
11/9 – 5 miles
32 of 100 miles
Nice morning for a run – this weather is making me crazy though…. 34 one day, 64 the next oh wait now it’s 45 but tomorrow will be 104 ha ha
LOL @JessicaMcB awesome meme and you know I read it in his voice
@PastorVincent I agree 100% that 43 to 50 degree range always gets me, if it’s dark it feels like one thing, if it’s sunny it feels completely different, add in some wind or a higher dewpoint and you are going WTF.
@hanlonsk we have weather changes like that in a day here in Alabama ha ha. Kidding, well kinda. But that is just a crazy difference from one year to another. Speaking of Denver, I accidently booked me instead of a fellow co worker on a flight to Denver this weekend. If the hotel didn’t send me an email about my upcoming stay I would never have noticed ha ha oops!
@MobyCarp just for the record I laugh every single time you write this Today was the first group run of Daylight Wasting Time
@ddmom0811 what is a Tabatas?
@hedkell I’m sorry about the flu – feel better soon
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Last month of running before I start hitting weights and getting back to just 5k, 10k and half marathons.
Knee injury cut my time in the October challenge short. My Marathon is Florence on the 26th so I plan to hit at least 126 miles (taper time has begun)
I have so far completed 33.6 miles since November 1st.
1st - 3.1
2nd - 1.0
3rd - 5.0
4th - 14.1
5th - 1.5
6th - 1.1
7th - 3.3
8th - 1.5
9th - 3.0
10th - 1.5
11th - 1.5
12th - 16.0
13th - 1.5
14th - 5.0
15th - 3.0
16th - 5.0
17th - 1.5
18th - 1.5
19th - 12.0
20th - 1.5
21st - 3.0
22nd - 3.0
23rd - 1.5
24th - 2.0
25th - 1.0
26th - 26.2
27th - 1.0
28th - 1.0
29th - 1.0
30th - 1.0
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »@PastorVincent go for the 50k. What's the worst that can happen? Think about that and decide if it's worth it. Most people aren't @JessicaMcB and me, we normally think almost any outcome is worth it, it's about pushing the limits. Not sure of she's the same way but, for myself, I'm OK with risking time off due to something happening, if the possible result is something epic...... Kind of why, if I had the time off and finances, I'd apply for one of the teacher spots at Boston 2018, even though it's 2 days after my Zumbro run.
Now, I will say that this approach is NOT for everyone. it takes a certain kind of crazy. if you have any doubts, don't go for it. doubts can lead to more problems than overconfidence does.
Always willing to go all in for something epic, refuse to acknowledge the possibility of "something happening" because I have a problem 1 -
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