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Do diets work?
Replies
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Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...7 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.10 -
These burger pictures are making me hungry5
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
Because it's a lot harder to argue that people who eat nutritionally balanced diets that include but are not limited to hamburgers can't lose weight and be healthy.9 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
No it isn't . You not going to run a marathon or high volume training eating just chicken breasts.5 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
You still haven't explained why you think that. It's better because it's better. . . that's your argument.9 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?12 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.
Or for anything really because no context is given at all.
Is a Ferrari better than a Volkswagen?Not if you end up in lifelong debt and become homeless because of it.16 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
well according to you I can eat Oreos and Big macs all day and be just fine so why monitor the macros?Irishman1970 wrote: »Alright people - you fill yourselves with Cheeseburgers and i will fill my self with chicken breast and salad and we will see which one makes it to the top of the mountain first - my god its not rocket science
You honestly think that this is what posters are saying....honestly?
I would really like an answer to this question, because quite obviously that is not what people have said.Oh...I don't know if I'd advocate chicken breast and salad pre-endurance event.....where's the carbs? I usually go for some pasta of some sort before endurance events.
I'd also agree that this is NOT what I'd consider a great pre endurance meal. Add some potatoes or sweet potatoes or pasta, sure!
Also curious what's in this 100 g of sugar burger. Never seen such a thing. Seems inconsistent with the normal ingredients in a burger, but I guess Irishman1970 may have some interesting tastes, dunno.
I stand corrected 50 carbs (most from bun and sauces(sugar) )
Calories (%DV based on daily intake of 2,000 kcal) 1,060 kcal 53%
Calories from Fat 660 kcal 366.7%
Kilojoules 4,435 kj
Pts (by CL, not official Weight Watchers POINTS©; italics if no fiber) 27
Total Fat (DRI 65 g) 73 g 112.3%
Saturated Fat (DRI 20 g) 29 g 145%
Protein (DRI 50 g) 46 g 92%
now compare those numbers a healthier alternative - such as chicken breast with lemon and bell peppers
Same amount of protein 200 Calories
Zero Saturated Fat
Peppers - 70 calories
No simple sugars
I can eat FIVE of these servings for 1 burgers and have much better nutrition
Okay, but welcome to the real world where people are eating burgers along with other foods. Nobody is arguing for an all-burger diet.
Why would I *want* five servings of chicken, lemon, and bell pepper? One serving would be fine, but five is ridiculous. If I tried to live on that I'd be bored and probably craving some fat and additional fiber (the bell pepper has some, but I'm assuming not as much as I'd want to get). Or are you arguing for a diet where chicken, lemon, and bell peppers is just one of the many things one eats?
Well, welcome to the type of diet that everyone else is talking about.
that's the point - you don't need 5 servings to get the same nutrition - people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables
like I said I will crash and burn once in a while and indulge but its NOT part of my plan for fitness - its a deviation - and outlier
Except that many (including myself) ARE getting the losses they want while still eating the burger!
I prefer not to talk about fitness in term of weight loss - 2 woman ----
#1 5'5" 115 pounds
#2 5'5" 135 pounds
which one is more fit?
What does that have to do with anything?? You said "people will throw burgers into their DIET and then trying to understand why they are not making the same losses or gains as the person eating more nutrient dense food - Chicken - Fish - lean cuts of beef - less sugar more vegetables"
I responded that many are eating the cheeseburgers and seeing losses. I can assure you that at 135 lbs down, I am way more "fit" that i was at almost 300 lbs.
question - would you call yourself fit or fitter than you were?
I would call myself fitter than I was, yet still a work in progress.4 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.
welcome to the .001% of the people that need massive calories - still chicken breast is healthier and throw in some nuts and and complex carbs over a simple white bread bun and sugar BBQ sauce
That has nothing to do with massive calories and everything to do with quick fuel availability for your glucose needs.6 -
KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
Because these conversations always come down to choosing ridiculous examples and assuming that everyone who eats a given food sometimes is proposing that people should live exclusively on that food.
While people who talk about chicken breasts get to gradually add more and more to the meal, so we go from "chicken breast with lemon and bell pepper" to "chicken breast with salad dressed with balsamic vinegar" to "chicken breast with some nuts and complex carbohydrates" as the awareness sinks in that people actually need a variety of foods to feel and perform their best, but somehow that variety of foods should never include ground beef, bread, and cheese (unless, of course, the dietary prohibitionist eats a certain type of those foods, in which case it doesn't really count at all as a burger and is actually good for you).7 -
17 -
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Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.
welcome to the .001% of the people that need massive calories - still chicken breast is healthier and throw in some nuts and and complex carbs over a simple white bread bun and sugar BBQ sauce
i'm not really surprised by this, since i already know from a previous that you incorrectly conflate sugar and carbs, but i just want to point out that bread is a complex carb, while something like your bell peppers are simple carbs.17 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.
welcome to the .001% of the people that need massive calories - still chicken breast is healthier and throw in some nuts and and complex carbs over a simple white bread bun and sugar BBQ sauce
i'm not really surprised by this, since i already know from a previous that you incorrectly conflate sugar and carbs, but i just want to point out that bread is a complex carb, while something like your bell peppers are simple carbs.
I was wondering if this was "special k guy"...10 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.
welcome to the .001% of the people that need massive calories - still chicken breast is healthier and throw in some nuts and and complex carbs over a simple white bread bun and sugar BBQ sauce
i'm not really surprised by this, since i already know from a previous that you incorrectly conflate sugar and carbs, but i just want to point out that bread is a complex carb, while something like your bell peppers are simple carbs.
5 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?11 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.
welcome to the .001% of the people that need massive calories - still chicken breast is healthier and throw in some nuts and and complex carbs over a simple white bread bun and sugar BBQ sauce
i'm not really surprised by this, since i already know from a previous that you incorrectly conflate sugar and carbs, but i just want to point out that bread is a complex carb, while something like your bell peppers are simple carbs.
There you go bringing facts and objective evidence again.8 -
Well my noona is 5'3/115 and bed ridden. Atrophy has set in so I wouldn't call her fit. She's 88
A girl in my group is 5'3 / 135 and can't do one pull up and gets out of breathe taking the steps one floor. She's 18.
So I think we're going to need a better description and more details in order to have a real debate.
It's like saying which is best- Hershey or Snickers? That's not a real debate.7 -
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jessiferrrb wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
because this is not thatjanejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
I use the Costco Angus patties - very lean low Sat Fat high protein I grill them with onions and peppers
See, so you already know how easy it can be to get a burger that has the stuff you want on it. So why doubt that others can practice the same magic?
Again...why this assumption that everyone is eating that all of the time?
*kitten* weird...
you made the assumption i just said a chicken breast is better choice for fitness
Not for marathons.
welcome to the .001% of the people that need massive calories - still chicken breast is healthier and throw in some nuts and and complex carbs over a simple white bread bun and sugar BBQ sauce
i'm not really surprised by this, since i already know from a previous that you incorrectly conflate sugar and carbs, but i just want to point out that bread is a complex carb, while something like your bell peppers are simple carbs.
Yeah - after the pic got changed, I thought, "oh, yeah, isn't this the guy who doesn't know how to read a nutrition label and thinks all carbs are sugars?"12 -
Irishman1970 wrote: »100_PROOF_ wrote: »Well my noona is 5'3/115 and bed ridden. Atrophy has set in so I wouldn't call her fit. She's 88
A girl in my group is 5'3 / 135 and can't do one pull up and gets out of breathe taking the steps one floor. She's 18.
So I think we're going to need a better description and more details in order to have a real debate.
It's like saying which is best- Hershey or Snickers? That's not a real debate.
Exactly - which i why i never use weight as a guide
It would be about as misguided as assuming someone was less healthy just because they sometimes had a cheeseburger, huh?14 -
Still waiting to know what relevance the 5'5 women at two different weights (but both within a healthy BMI so can't make any assumptions about BF%) has in this whole thing.
Oh wait, are we assuming the 135lb woman has too high a BF% and the 115lb woman doesn't have too low BF%?
Sugar =/= carbs
I'll take the burger of my choosing because it will help me hit my macro and micronutrient goals. Both chicken breast and that burger can contribute to that. I don't know why, if nutritionally identical, a meal with a burger is so much more terrible and is going to kill me than a meal with chicken. and what wizardry that burger is performing to lead me to have high blood pressure and bad cholesterol numbers. Strawmen are so *kitten* weird it just has to be deliberate in order to avoid being able to have a sane conversation.6 -
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janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast peppers - still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Why are two meats worse than one meat?
What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings?
I was combining them as there is not real nutritional benefit difference between the 2 - What on earth is wrong with lettuce and onion rings? - nothing - I just like my onion sauteed not breaded
So why call it out at all? That's what I don't understand. What is the significance of the burger having two meats?
Here's the thing about burger places: the vast majority of them will give you what you order. So if you prefer sauteed onions, guess what? You can have them! If you want raw onion (my preference), they'll serve you that! Nobody is going to force you to eat a fried onion just because it is there. The worse case scenario is that you'll pick it off and throw it away.
There is also a thing where you can make burgers at home and purchase exactly what you want and serve it in exactly the style and portion size you like. I highly recommend it, it's great fun. Since I've been doing it, I've never been served a fried onion on a burger and I never have to worry about BBQ sauce showing up either.
You, my friend, have the patience of a damn saint. Right around page 12 I kicked my cat, called my grandma and told her there is no god and life has no meaning, then went down to the parking lot and rammed my car into a guardrail in frustration. I should probably go to Wendy's and get a burger since I'm out already <shrugs>18 -
This content has been removed.
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Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »KeithWhiteJr wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Irishman1970 wrote: »
are you asking me to provide with peer reviewed dietary analysis that a bacon western cheeseburger is less healthy than a chicken breast with balsamic salad?
No, people are asking specifically about the context of the overall diet. We are not asking you to compare two specific meals.
We're asking why the person who meets their nutritional needs with a variety of foods including a bacon cheeseburger is better off than the person who is meeting their nutritional needs while excluding bacon cheeseburgers (and, presumably, their components -- beef, bacon, cheese, and bread).
Foods don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in the context of an overall diet. That is what people are asking you about.
Although, a bacon cheeseburger is probably more balanced than a balsamic vinegar salad with chicken breast.
nah
2 meats and nitrates - lettuce onion ring and BBq sauce (sugar) vs. Chicken breast still lettuce - tomatos - cucumbers - hard boiled eggs vinegar AND 1/2 the calories
Well that's problem number 1. Who wants half the calories? Now I have to eat 2 salads. and you're probably still light on fat and protein
And what sort of criminal puts BBQ sauce on a bacon cheeseburger?
that is one of my many meals and I need the nutrition and don't want empty calories of breading bun sugar in the sauces - LOL BBQ - Carls Jr does
Why is your cheesburger in this scenario have a bun, onion rings and BBQ sauce on it, but the chicken doesn't have those things? Shouldn't they be equal to compare?
lean meat - sauteed onion rings and peppers a bit of mozzarella cheese maybe some crushed bacon - no bun no sauce in a lettuce wrap
Ok, but, you didn't even attempt to answer my question. Why cant I eat the burger that way? Why does it have to be on a bun, with deep-fried onion rings and BBQ sauce? To accurately compare, shouldn't the chicken breast be on a bun, with onion rings, smothered in BBQ sauce?
YOU CAAAAAAAN - my point was between the 2 that burger or a chicken breast with salad you can eat more nutritious food - if you are active and fit you need more nutrient dense food between the 2 - a Carls jr Bacon western Cheeseburger or a sald with chicken breast the later is the better choice for fitness
But didn't the Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger originally come up because you were attempting to use it as some sort of stand-in for the typical cheeseburger?
Weren't you the one who did that while other people were arguing that cheeseburgers come in all sorts of forms and it's possible for all types of people to find a version that fits into their calorie and nutritional goals and there's nothing inherently unhealthy about foods that fall into the category of "cheeseburger"?
And all this in the context of you refusing to even explain why you are so convinced that someone who is meeting their nutritional needs but sometimes having a cheeseburger, even a Carl's Jr Bacon Western Cheeseburger, is going to be worse off.
10 -
You can be healthy and fit and eat cheeseburgers.
You can be unhealthy and unfit and eat chicken breast and salad.
You cannot isolate the usefulness or healthfulness of a single food or a single meal outside of the context of the overall diet.24
This discussion has been closed.
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