Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Keto diet = good or bad
Options
Replies
-
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If the veggie people are talking about "Huge Global Studies" about Keto then someone was perhaps asleep while the minds of the masses were thinking about the different WOE's out there today. I know on Keto I am moving to a more plant based way of eating than ever. If one reads Missing Microbes by Martin J. Blaser, MD she will learn many diseases can be associated mass produced meats even before discussing saturated fats as being good, bad or indifferent to longevity. On the other hand processed carbs could short life as well due to chemicals added at the farm and later. Physical death is coming one way or another some say. I like to learn from the Blue Zones but for many in the USA that way of life is a pipe dream often unless one fully embraces a religious group with that lifestyle.
https://bluezones.com/2018/09/news-study-finds-low-carb-or-keto-diets-could-lead-to-shorter-lifespan/
Alarming Levels of Glyphosate Found in Popular American Foods
While this is not a recent research there is a new one about what is in wine and beers causing health concerns. Food supplies today contain more than just carbs, protein and fats it seems.
https://ecowatch.com/monsanto-glyphosate-cheerios-2093130379.html
".....According to the report, the herbicide residues were found in cookies, crackers, popular cold cereals and chips commonly consumed by children and adults....."
Who are the "veggie people"? I'm having trouble following what exactly you mean by the "minds of the masses."
I do know that some people doing keto report that they are eating more vegetables than they did before. I would say that these people typically were not eating a lot of vegetables prior to going keto. While you may be eating more plants than you did before, it's still usually not what we would describe as a vegetable-rich diet.
Why do you think the "blue zones" are a pipe dream unless one also embraces religion? Do you not think it's possible that all of us -- regardless of where we are spiritually -- can adapt the concepts of social connectedness, mindfulness, and living with purpose to fit our lives?
I want a t-shirt saying I'm one of the Veggie People
You have to post a pic if you get one LOL.
I...dunno, have to say it. I liked the keto menu when I did that for a few months, but that's all it was, was a menu to me. Same stuff I always ate minus other stuff I used to eat but didn't for a while. I don't see the cause for investing so much energy into arguing for it. Even if a medical necessity. The it's doing what the Doc says - and whoever does, I hope it works for you sincerely - but it's just food.
In my experience, the people who are the most invested into zealously advocating for a specific diet are those who feel they were misled or lied to by medical/nutritional professionals about what to eat in the past.
It's one thing to be like "Hey, keto helps control my appetite and makes it much easier to manage my weight. I also find that I am meeting my nutritional needs on it." But some people get to that point and go further, they conclude that dietary recommendations that encourage the consumption of fruit, vegetables, and whole grains were designed to deliberately mislead people into diets that would harm them, either to benefit food manufacturers or to help support certain segments of the agricultural industry. Once you've reached that point, where you think you've been lied to and you've now found *the way* humans are supposed to eat, you want to share it with others and you've more likely to attribute bad faith to anyone who doesn't fall into line.
It's not just keto (although we do seem to see it a lot with keto here), you can use this for just about any dietary style. Once you think you've been mislead, the path of virtue can seem to be the one that helps others recover from their "conditioning."
That makes perfect sense to me, but then, haven't pretty much all of us been lied to at one point or another? I guess we pursue and defend what seems the greatest benefit.
Increasingly, I'm thinking that certain people are inclined to a suspicious, conspiracy-oriented view of the world (It's not particularly MFP that's leading me to that idea, BTW - more people I know IRL).
At the on-ramp, it seems to look like a tendency to assume in many circumstances that someone(s) is (are) trying to put something over on them, or to assume that no matter what others do/say, it's somehow intended to manipulate that person: New ideas that overturn old ones are interpreted in that way - someone nefariously tried to hide an important secret. (May not matter if the old ideas were lies or simple misunderstandings.)
At later stages, the idea that some novel idea - some bit of 'knowledge' (true or false) - is actively being suppressed by powerful others becomes a selling point for that new idea. Getting on board with the "suppressed" idea is then a badge of insight, insiderhood, being in the know, being powerful against the vast conspiracy.
Correctly or incorrectly, I interpreted Jane's comment somewhat in that light. Certainly, some people become advocates for non-paranoid reasons, even to the point of overselling their own strategies . . . but I think sometimes there is that suspicious habit of mind at work.
I do think we've all felt misled or lied to. The distinction, for me, is the ability to tell the difference between progress in understanding (we understand things about nutrition we didn't know fifty years ago) and deliberate deception. Also, the ability to process that there may be individual bad actors versus the leap to concluding that nobody in authority can be trusted.
There's nuance there and nuance doesn't seem to be very popular now. It can be hard for some people to understand that there was, for example, a genuine belief among some nutritional professionals that eggs were bad for cholesterol levels and that it wasn't a deliberate attempt to . . . I don't know, destroy the egg industry? Make us eat bowls of white flour for breakfast instead?
And what we're too often left with is a sort of virtual throwing up of the hands, the decision that we can't ever really have a truly verifiable truth, so we just have to watch out for people trying to deceive us and that we have to determine truth through a series of anecdotes.
It doesn't matter how many studies, for example, show that the MMR vaccine isn't related to autism because who can trust studies anyway? And the fear that it isn't true, that you're being misled, becomes as valid a datapoint as anything else.
And because you've determined that you've been lied to and these lies are deliberate (not the result of a better understanding of the world or dialogue between scientists), it becomes a matter of virtue to expose these lies and be a zealot for your dietary style. You're saving people,4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Why do you think the "blue zones" are a pipe dream unless one also embraces religion? Do you not think it's possible that all of us -- regardless of where we are spiritually -- can adapt the concepts of social connectedness, mindfulness, and living with purpose to fit our lives?
I'm hung up on this too. I know certain religions have some dietary restrictions, but I've never heard of having to embrace a religion in order to have a certain diet. Screams cultish to me.
It's a line I've seen some people use to argue against the idea that the "blue zones" have anything to suggest about healthy dietary patterns, that it's not the diet that gives the benefit . . . it's something else that can't be replicated. Now I don't think anyone *is* arguing that it is exclusively the diet, people in the blue zones do seem to have clear patterns of staying active and being socially connected. Some of the blue zones are marked by certain religious traditions. I don't think that means we can conclude that diet has nothing to do with it. I certainly disagree that we should use that to conclude that there is only one healthful human diet and it's keto.
Concluding that we shouldn't eat more plants because we don't want to convert to being a Seventh Day Adventist . . . . just ridiculous.
Thanks for expanding that a bit for me. I agree it's ridiculous and I've heard that first bold cited for a rather vast number of arguments, most of which usually fall flat when dissected.
The "It can't be replicated" argument basically shields the person making the claims from any objective accountability, and can open the door to some really unhealthy ideas. Anecdotal, but I've seen a person go down a road like that. No thank you.
Yeah, also, if you read the researchers opinions who worked on the Blue Zones projects, they believe (and they are very clear that they can't prove exactly what makes the most difference) that what all the Blue Zones have in common are a whole foods mostly plants diet, a high level of activity, strong social and family ties, and a general sense that they still have a purpose in their later years. Nothing fancy.
Also also, the Loma Linda Adventists are probably the one Blue Zone that Americans realistically CAN replicate in their own lives. They aren't living in some remote village away from modern technology. They live in Loma Linda California, and many work in the Adventist Health System, which is a large healthcare/hospital system.
I admit I am laregly ignorant about the Blue Zones projects. What you're describing just sounds like a healthy lifestyle to me, with the high plant diet of course...thanks for the tips on them, more reading for me
The Blue Zones book is a good read. They include stories and interviews with individual centenarians in each of the zones. It would dovetail nicely with your thread about getting "old" actually
Their stories made me feel like a lazy *kitten*, definitely motivational!
I somehow find it hard to believe you are a lazy kitten I will check that out, thanks @kimny72 0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »If the veggie people are talking about "Huge Global Studies" about Keto then someone was perhaps asleep while the minds of the masses were thinking about the different WOE's out there today. I know on Keto I am moving to a more plant based way of eating than ever. If one reads Missing Microbes by Martin J. Blaser, MD she will learn many diseases can be associated mass produced meats even before discussing saturated fats as being good, bad or indifferent to longevity. On the other hand processed carbs could short life as well due to chemicals added at the farm and later. Physical death is coming one way or another some say. I like to learn from the Blue Zones but for many in the USA that way of life is a pipe dream often unless one fully embraces a religious group with that lifestyle.
https://bluezones.com/2018/09/news-study-finds-low-carb-or-keto-diets-could-lead-to-shorter-lifespan/
Alarming Levels of Glyphosate Found in Popular American Foods
While this is not a recent research there is a new one about what is in wine and beers causing health concerns. Food supplies today contain more than just carbs, protein and fats it seems.
https://ecowatch.com/monsanto-glyphosate-cheerios-2093130379.html
".....According to the report, the herbicide residues were found in cookies, crackers, popular cold cereals and chips commonly consumed by children and adults....."
Who are the "veggie people"? I'm having trouble following what exactly you mean by the "minds of the masses."
I do know that some people doing keto report that they are eating more vegetables than they did before. I would say that these people typically were not eating a lot of vegetables prior to going keto. While you may be eating more plants than you did before, it's still usually not what we would describe as a vegetable-rich diet.
Why do you think the "blue zones" are a pipe dream unless one also embraces religion? Do you not think it's possible that all of us -- regardless of where we are spiritually -- can adapt the concepts of social connectedness, mindfulness, and living with purpose to fit our lives?
I want a t-shirt saying I'm one of the Veggie People
There's this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/61970410/5pcs-70s-veggie-people-erasers?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=veggie+people&ref=sr_gallery-1-3
And this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/255002967/victorian-veggie-people-antique-seed?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=veggie+people&ref=sr_gallery-1-6
I think there was something in one of the Oz books too.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »nationalvillage3215 wrote: »For me, getting a good amount of fiber is difficult on Keto. High fiber is pretty essential for digestive health. It is possible I guess to reach 30 grams/per day without fruit, lequmes, grains but I would have to eat an enormous amount of vegetables. I have been doing the Med. diet which also reduces inflammation and has helped my spinal arthritis.
May be of interest
https://blog.virtahealth.com/fiber-colon-health-ketogenic-diet/
I stopped reading once I realized that site is selling a $199 a month subscription (plus a $500 sign up fee).
And someone above thread said people weren't cashing in on keto
They are doctors. The service is for them to be your doctor if you’re T2D. Do you know any doctors that work for free?
They have published some very impressive studies showing a 60% reversal of T2D in one year. I don’t know many diabetics that wouldn’t save money reversing their diabetes even if using a private service like this.7 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad9 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
You seem to be confused. Studies, meta analyses and scholarly papers in reputable journals are not opinions. There are evidence.
19 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »nationalvillage3215 wrote: »For me, getting a good amount of fiber is difficult on Keto. High fiber is pretty essential for digestive health. It is possible I guess to reach 30 grams/per day without fruit, lequmes, grains but I would have to eat an enormous amount of vegetables. I have been doing the Med. diet which also reduces inflammation and has helped my spinal arthritis.
May be of interest
https://blog.virtahealth.com/fiber-colon-health-ketogenic-diet/
I stopped reading once I realized that site is selling a $199 a month subscription (plus a $500 sign up fee).
And someone above thread said people weren't cashing in on keto
They are doctors. The service is for them to be your doctor if you’re T2D. Do you know any doctors that work for free?
They have published some very impressive studies showing a 60% reversal of T2D in one year. I don’t know many diabetics that wouldn’t save money reversing their diabetes even if using a private service like this.
I pay $75 to meet face to face with my doctor. That also includes getting health markers checked (blood pressure etc). No way would I pay $200 a month (plus a $500 sign up fee), for an internet doctor on some website.4 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
You seem to be confused. Studies, meta analyses and scholarly papers in reputable journals are not opinions. There are evidence.
They are never biased, misprepresented or bought and paid for either I suppose?
Unfortunately, many are indeed nothing more than opinion with a bunch of misleading data carefully crafted to appear to support said opinion.
In any given reputable journal you can find a study to support both sides of the same argument. Are we to believe both are 100% accurate?
Please!21 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
You seem to be confused. Studies, meta analyses and scholarly papers in reputable journals are not opinions. There are evidence.
They are never biased, misprepresented or bought and paid for either I suppose?
Unfortunately, many are indeed nothing more than opinion with a bunch of misleading data carefully crafted to appear to support said opinion.
In any given reputable journal you can find a study to support both sides of the same argument. Are we to believe both are 100% accurate?
Please!
Well that's where learning to vet your sources and a little critical thinking comes in. But hey, if you'd rather rely on your personal experiments, you go right ahead. Me? I'm going to look for evidence and formulate my strategies based on that.10 -
I believe we've all been told off...😀6
-
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
Let's not equivocate here: do you mean faith as in trust? If so, living in society means trust in others just to operate. I'm not sure the issue with that.
Now, presumably, the implication is that you mean faith in the sense of some kind of intuiting justification. The problem with that is the whole point of a sound epistemology is having rational justifications for knowledge (not opinion). Nothing known from science requires any such faith. I see no better process to resolve empirical claims.6 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
You seem to be confused. Studies, meta analyses and scholarly papers in reputable journals are not opinions. There are evidence.
They are never biased, misprepresented or bought and paid for either I suppose?
Unfortunately, many are indeed nothing more than opinion with a bunch of misleading data carefully crafted to appear to support said opinion.
In any given reputable journal you can find a study to support both sides of the same argument. Are we to believe both are 100% accurate?
Please!
Please find me the journal article that says eating magma would be good for your health...9 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
You seem to be confused. Studies, meta analyses and scholarly papers in reputable journals are not opinions. There are evidence.
They are never biased, misprepresented or bought and paid for either I suppose?
Unfortunately, many are indeed nothing more than opinion with a bunch of misleading data carefully crafted to appear to support said opinion.
In any given reputable journal you can find a study to support both sides of the same argument. Are we to believe both are 100% accurate?
Please!
Please find me the journal article that says eating magma would be good for your health...
Why would I want to find a study saying eating magma is good for health? Are we discussing magma?6 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
You seem to be confused. Studies, meta analyses and scholarly papers in reputable journals are not opinions. There are evidence.
They are never biased, misprepresented or bought and paid for either I suppose?
Unfortunately, many are indeed nothing more than opinion with a bunch of misleading data carefully crafted to appear to support said opinion.
In any given reputable journal you can find a study to support both sides of the same argument. Are we to believe both are 100% accurate?
Please!
Well that's where learning to vet your sources and a little critical thinking comes in. But hey, if you'd rather rely on your personal experiments, you go right ahead. Me? I'm going to look for evidence and formulate my strategies based on that.
Well, I wouldn’t exactly say I’m experimenting in ways that don’t show efficacy already.
There are many studies to show many things. Keto has proven to be beneficial for me which can also be found to be true in many resources. So it’s not like I randomly chose an arsenic diet or something.
Let’s not be stupid.
I’m not someone saying keto is best for all. I’m someone saying it is a perfectly valid option. Do what you want.
No need to try and minimize someone else’s experience just because it differs from yours. I couldn’t care less how anyone else eats but if someone tells me their choice is to try keto, I will help them in any way they might need me to. There’s no reason for me or anyone to try to convince them they don’t need to try it or shouldn’t try it. Let them make up their own mind. Why ridicule it?12 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »nationalvillage3215 wrote: »For me, getting a good amount of fiber is difficult on Keto. High fiber is pretty essential for digestive health. It is possible I guess to reach 30 grams/per day without fruit, lequmes, grains but I would have to eat an enormous amount of vegetables. I have been doing the Med. diet which also reduces inflammation and has helped my spinal arthritis.
May be of interest
https://blog.virtahealth.com/fiber-colon-health-ketogenic-diet/
I stopped reading once I realized that site is selling a $199 a month subscription (plus a $500 sign up fee).
And someone above thread said people weren't cashing in on keto
They are doctors. The service is for them to be your doctor if you’re T2D. Do you know any doctors that work for free?
They have published some very impressive studies showing a 60% reversal of T2D in one year. I don’t know many diabetics that wouldn’t save money reversing their diabetes even if using a private service like this.
I pay $75 to meet face to face with my doctor. That also includes getting health markers checked (blood pressure etc). No way would I pay $200 a month (plus a $500 sign up fee), for an internet doctor on some website.
It’s nice to have many options based upon your goals.
Those “internet doctors” have real offices where they see patients in person as well. They are actually running a long term study right now. The internet option brings their expertise to a much larger population. It’s a choice for anyone to use their service.
Sad that a team of doctors doing what has been thought to be impossible, gets reduced to being called “internet doctors” just because they make their services more widely available.
I guess you think it’s better for them to stay only minimally available for some reason? That’s weird.12 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »nationalvillage3215 wrote: »For me, getting a good amount of fiber is difficult on Keto. High fiber is pretty essential for digestive health. It is possible I guess to reach 30 grams/per day without fruit, lequmes, grains but I would have to eat an enormous amount of vegetables. I have been doing the Med. diet which also reduces inflammation and has helped my spinal arthritis.
May be of interest
https://blog.virtahealth.com/fiber-colon-health-ketogenic-diet/
I stopped reading once I realized that site is selling a $199 a month subscription (plus a $500 sign up fee).
And someone above thread said people weren't cashing in on keto
They are doctors. The service is for them to be your doctor if you’re T2D. Do you know any doctors that work for free?
They have published some very impressive studies showing a 60% reversal of T2D in one year. I don’t know many diabetics that wouldn’t save money reversing their diabetes even if using a private service like this.
I pay $75 to meet face to face with my doctor. That also includes getting health markers checked (blood pressure etc). No way would I pay $200 a month (plus a $500 sign up fee), for an internet doctor on some website.
It’s nice to have many options based upon your goals.
Those “internet doctors” have real offices where they see patients in person as well. They are actually running a long term study right now. The internet option brings their expertise to a much larger population. It’s a choice for anyone to use their service.
Sad that a team of doctors doing what has been thought to be impossible, gets reduced to being called “internet doctors” just because they make their services more widely available.
I guess you think it’s better for them to stay only minimally available for some reason? That’s weird.
But why do these internet doctors need to do this? For altruistic reasons? Or to make a lot money? They are in it for the money. Honestly7 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »
I'd be afraid to live with such an epistemology.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I couldn’t care less if there is a study proving any one thing or another.
I tried keto and I liked it. It changed my behavior regarding food and changed my level of hunger and satiety and I even felt better and more energy pretty much immediately. My blood work is stellar, I’ve reduced meds for ADHD and eliminated all of my IBS symptoms once I eventually began a carnivore diet after my first year of keto.
I have lost weight to my current weight in the past and spent my entire adult life constantly swinging up and down 30 pounds. I could never maintain the weight loss and could only lose the weight if I worked out and spent a lot of time being hungry.
At the same weight as I had previously achieved, I am 2 pant sizes smaller now and have maintained this size without effort for 4 years now simply by remaining keto, and now carnivore. I eat until I’m satisfied and I do not work out and I do not have to cycle in and out of dieting to maintain the weight. I do not have to spend time being hungry in order to not overeat. I simply do not overeat without trying.
I have never maintained a consistent weight for 4 years ever before and I certainly didn’t expect to find this kind of stability going into my 40’s.
So I don’t care what any study says or doesn’t say. I don’t care about yours or anyone’s belief regarding calories or hormones.
All I care about is my results and how I’m doing and that’s damn good!
I would be afraid to live being so faithful to others opinions rather than see for myself what gives me my best health.
Sad
You seem to be confused. Studies, meta analyses and scholarly papers in reputable journals are not opinions. There are evidence.
They are never biased, misprepresented or bought and paid for either I suppose?
Unfortunately, many are indeed nothing more than opinion with a bunch of misleading data carefully crafted to appear to support said opinion.
In any given reputable journal you can find a study to support both sides of the same argument. Are we to believe both are 100% accurate?
Please!
Please find me the journal article that says eating magma would be good for your health...
Why would I want to find a study saying eating magma is good for health? Are we discussing magma?
You said there always exists both sides of an argument. You also propose knowledge must be by acquaintance, so clearly, you've experienced every study in science when claiming every side is represented in the literature.
Or perhaps some sides aren't represented, and understanding what may look contradictory is resolvable with proper understanding?13 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I’m not someone saying keto is best for all. I’m someone saying it is a perfectly valid option. Do what you want.
From my reading of the thread, there have been basically two main positions:
(1) keto is not best for all, but it's a perfectly valid option (I think this is the position of the vast majority of people who don't currently do keto, and some of those who do keto); and
(2) keto is inherently superior.
No one is really arguing that keto is not a valid option.
Also, no one is suggestion OP shouldn't do keto if she likes it. OP hasn't really been participating after starting this thread in the Debate section and asking the title question (i.e., asking for a discussion of the pros and cons of keto from the perspective of the different posters).8 -
Never mind, what I said is also upthread.
3 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »nationalvillage3215 wrote: »For me, getting a good amount of fiber is difficult on Keto. High fiber is pretty essential for digestive health. It is possible I guess to reach 30 grams/per day without fruit, lequmes, grains but I would have to eat an enormous amount of vegetables. I have been doing the Med. diet which also reduces inflammation and has helped my spinal arthritis.
May be of interest
https://blog.virtahealth.com/fiber-colon-health-ketogenic-diet/
I stopped reading once I realized that site is selling a $199 a month subscription (plus a $500 sign up fee).
And someone above thread said people weren't cashing in on keto
They are doctors. The service is for them to be your doctor if you’re T2D. Do you know any doctors that work for free?
They have published some very impressive studies showing a 60% reversal of T2D in one year. I don’t know many diabetics that wouldn’t save money reversing their diabetes even if using a private service like this.
I pay $75 to meet face to face with my doctor. That also includes getting health markers checked (blood pressure etc). No way would I pay $200 a month (plus a $500 sign up fee), for an internet doctor on some website.
It’s nice to have many options based upon your goals.
Those “internet doctors” have real offices where they see patients in person as well. They are actually running a long term study right now. The internet option brings their expertise to a much larger population. It’s a choice for anyone to use their service.
Sad that a team of doctors doing what has been thought to be impossible, gets reduced to being called “internet doctors” just because they make their services more widely available.
I guess you think it’s better for them to stay only minimally available for some reason? That’s weird.
But why do these internet doctors need to do this? For altruistic reasons? Or to make a lot money? They are in it for the money. Honestly
Low carb support isn't widely offered from "brick and mortar doctors" is the reason. Or do you think these patients never went to their primary doctor for treatment and just stumbled upon their website? There's no doubt they're making (or are going to make) shedloads of money but their patients aren't being harmed and many are getting better than expected outcomes.
Hard to find fault with that.A quick post regarding an exciting study that dropped today in the release of Virta Health's one year data on the impact their intensive lifestyle counselling, coupled with their ketotic diet, had on patients with type 2 diabetes.
The results were impressive.
Of the 262 patients who started the year long study, 83% finished, and of those their metabolic biomarkers and weight improved dramatically. On average their hemoglobin A1C (a long term measure of blood sugar) dropped from 7.6 to 6.3, type 2 diabetes medications other than metfromin dropped from 56.9% to 29.7%, and insulin was reduced or eliminated in 94% of subjects who started out on insulin, while sulfonylureas were eliminated entirely. Weight dropped an average of 30lbs. Insulin resistance as measured by HOMA-IR dropped by 55%, hs-CRP by 39%, and triglycerides by 24%. Though LDL did rise by 10%, HDL rose by 18% and apolipoprotein B was unchanged.
All this to say that if you have type 2 diabetes, and you're motivated to make lifestyle changes, Virta health's program definitely appears to be worth considering.
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2018/02/motivated-to-change-your-lifestyle-and.html5
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 390 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 922 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions