Coronavirus prep
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janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I doubt light ever finds its way to where his head's at.
Please do not give away my secret hiding place from the bat flu because we are limited on space and food.5 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
Even with the restrictions, nobody was authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns. This is the kind of rhetoric that is incredibly unhelpful. I don't even know how you got there. It's like some kind of fever dream fantasy.9 -
gradchica27 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I went to the laundromat today and then to the store. I have plenty of food to last awhile, but was hoping they had toilet paper back in stock. This time, I decided to not try several stores as I know that if a store is out, they all are. No sense in putting myself at additional risk for no benefit whatsoever.
The toilet paper aisle here looks exactly the same as it has for well over a month now. What is surprising is that there are still 4 boxes of Kleenex remaining. It's a respiratory illness, so that doesn't make sense... anyway, no toilet paper and no paper towels either. And since some people didn't believe me last time, here's a photo for the skeptics:
Good grief!
If you get desperate enough to drive down here we’re starting to see normal supply in the outskirts of Memphis. I found both tp and paper towels at both Kroger and Walmart in Collierville. Still very low on cleaning products but I also managed to snag some bleach. This week’s shortage was meat - I guess there is a panic starting due to news about the plants closing, but chicken was entirely gone and other meat very scant.
@rheddmobile , we’re in the same neck of the woods! Husband struck out on TP at Costco and Target last week (paper towels available and even some hand sanitizer at Target!), but I found some tp at Kroger, so we’re good for a another few weeks! Target guy told him to come back at 7:45, but that was senior hours and we weren’t in dire need....maybe in a week I might have had to be “that woman”, but was happily spared that. At the beginning of the panic he found some in MS bc there was none here.
Costco was out of chicken—the meat guy said they were getting less in and it was gone by mid morning. They were also out of random produce, like strawberries. We’re trying not to shop that often, but it’s getting tough (we have 4 boys, so there’s a lot of eating happening here!) when Walmart or Kroger pickup/delivery is “out” of 10 of your 25 items (and often if you just walk in, boom, whole shelf full of frozen spinach/half and half they said they were out of) or they won’t sell you any tp unless you physically go in and get it.
@gradchica27 I didn’t realize we were neighbors! I’ve had the same problem with pickup/delivery from Kroger - they say they are out of half my list, then when my husband goes in the shelves are full. We’ve been doing a pickup order and then he goes in for the rest of the stuff, so at least the time he spends in the store is minimized.
I was at a certain world famous bbq joint yesterday and waited almost an hour in the drive through, after calling ahead to place my order. No mask on the girl at the window and they made me take a little plastic tray and pen to sign my check. So I have essentially shaken hands with everyone in Collierville!10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
Even with the restrictions, nobody was authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns. This is the kind of rhetoric that is incredibly unhelpful. I don't even know how you got there. It's like some kind of fever dream fantasy.
Have you been reading about the mental health issues related to COVID-19? I just see an undercurrent that is dangerous for the safety of law officers. Some are losing everything and we know alcohol sales are up and gun sales are up. Did you read Cwolfmann's link over the number of COVID-19 deaths?
Law officers are starting to stand down over governors orders because they understand the time/risk factor on unproven restrictions is increasing. I think everyone posting here wants to do what is best and understand they are going to get COVID-19 sooner or later but want it to be much later.
We know with the schools closed it is causing some kids harm because they may not have a safe environment and food like when the schools were open. The schools will not be opening in 4 months from now if we do not get more COVID-19 cases behind us. Sweden may be proven wrong yet time will tell.
https://aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sweden-avoids-full-lockdown-pm-insists-restrictions-continue-200420173945004.html
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GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
Even with the restrictions, nobody was authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns. This is the kind of rhetoric that is incredibly unhelpful. I don't even know how you got there. It's like some kind of fever dream fantasy.
Have you been reading about the mental health issues related to COVID-19? I just see an undercurrent that is dangerous for the safety of law officers. Some are losing everything and we know alcohol sales are up and gun sales are up. Did you read Cwolfmann's link over the number of COVID-19 deaths?
Law officers are starting to stand down over governors orders because they understand the time/risk factor on unproven restrictions is increasing. I think everyone posting here wants to do what is best and understand they are going to get COVID-19 sooner or later but want it to be much later.
We know with the schools closed it is causing some kids harm because they may not have a safe environment and food like when the schools were open. The schools will not be opening in 4 months from now if we do not get more COVID-19 cases behind us. Sweden may be proven wrong yet time will tell.
https://aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sweden-avoids-full-lockdown-pm-insists-restrictions-continue-200420173945004.html
Any police officer who willfully disregards a direct order simply because they think they know better should be fired and brought up on charges.10 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Hand sanitizer: If you have a local craft distillery - one that usually makes vodka, whiskey, gin, etc. - check their FB/web page, or call to see if they have hand sanitizer. My local sells it in gallons, or 2oz, at about cost to make. I've read about places in other parts of the country doing similar things. Helps a local business, helps you.
Yes! There is a place nearby that changed from making whiskey to hand sanitizer. I heard they sell the bottle (32 oz., I think? I don't drink whiskey, so not exactly sure what the bottle size is) for $35. That may be a little expensive for that size of container, but not terrible. Also, they are new to making it and I'm sure materials went up in cost too... so probably is about right. They were supplying the nearest hospital as well and not sure if they were charging or how much. If not, that explains part of the cost too. Either way, $35 for about a liter isn't bad.
Local central IL distillery is selling hand sanitizer for $56.65 a gallon. Don't know where you're at but sounds high.
That's equivalent to 88 cents for the standard 2 oz. personal size container. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's hard to remember the "before times," especially since personal hand sanitizer was kind of a random purchase for me, not something I was buying regularly, but my best recollection is about $1.50 for a 2 oz. bottle. Of course, you normally expect a volume discount when you buy a large container.
And for the $35 dollar for a whiskey bottle from an earlier poster -- the "standard" whiskey bottle is a "fifth" (fifth of a gallon), so assuming that's what they're using, that's a little pricey -- about $2.73 per 2 oz.
I suspect it's relevant that the distilleries are set up to make food-grade alcohol, and are kind of shoe-stringing some of the hand sanitizer production, so maybe higher cost of staffing/production. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know my local** was struggling at first with sourcing things like suitable plastic bottles that they don't usually use, and I suspect they didn't have great equipment for efficiently fillng such bottles, etc.
** Which is selling 2 oz bottles for $2, not sure about prices for larger, but they have gallons - they said that's pricing approximately at cost, and - knowing them - I expect that's true. At first, they had people bring their own plastic bottles, which they'd sanitize, fill, then re-sanitize before giving back - not exactly efficient industrial scale processes.
They've now sourced their own bottles, but I suspect at higher unit cost than Purell pays, and I assume the production process is still not hyper-efficient, either.
The distillery near where I live is using the same bottles they normally use for whiskey, but just putting different labels on the for hand sanitizer.3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Hand sanitizer: If you have a local craft distillery - one that usually makes vodka, whiskey, gin, etc. - check their FB/web page, or call to see if they have hand sanitizer. My local sells it in gallons, or 2oz, at about cost to make. I've read about places in other parts of the country doing similar things. Helps a local business, helps you.
Yes! There is a place nearby that changed from making whiskey to hand sanitizer. I heard they sell the bottle (32 oz., I think? I don't drink whiskey, so not exactly sure what the bottle size is) for $35. That may be a little expensive for that size of container, but not terrible. Also, they are new to making it and I'm sure materials went up in cost too... so probably is about right. They were supplying the nearest hospital as well and not sure if they were charging or how much. If not, that explains part of the cost too. Either way, $35 for about a liter isn't bad.
Local central IL distillery is selling hand sanitizer for $56.65 a gallon. Don't know where you're at but sounds high.
That's equivalent to 88 cents for the standard 2 oz. personal size container. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's hard to remember the "before times," especially since personal hand sanitizer was kind of a random purchase for me, not something I was buying regularly, but my best recollection is about $1.50 for a 2 oz. bottle. Of course, you normally expect a volume discount when you buy a large container.
And for the $35 dollar for a whiskey bottle from an earlier poster -- the "standard" whiskey bottle is a "fifth" (fifth of a gallon), so assuming that's what they're using, that's a little pricey -- about $2.73 per 2 oz.
I suspect it's relevant that the distilleries are set up to make food-grade alcohol, and are kind of shoe-stringing some of the hand sanitizer production, so maybe higher cost of staffing/production. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know my local** was struggling at first with sourcing things like suitable plastic bottles that they don't usually use, and I suspect they didn't have great equipment for efficiently fillng such bottles, etc.
** Which is selling 2 oz bottles for $2, not sure about prices for larger, but they have gallons - they said that's pricing approximately at cost, and - knowing them - I expect that's true. At first, they had people bring their own plastic bottles, which they'd sanitize, fill, then re-sanitize before giving back - not exactly efficient industrial scale processes. They've now sourced their own bottles, but I suspect at higher unit cost than Purell pays, and I assume the production process is still not hyper-efficient, either.
The distillery near where I live is using the same bottles they normally use for whiskey, but just putting different labels on the for hand sanitizer.
Mine never sold 2-oz bottles of liquor.
They may be using the old stock for some bigger size, but all they've mentioned is 2-oz and gallon; their spirits are sold in liters, and beer (it's also a brewery) in cans. 0 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Hand sanitizer: If you have a local craft distillery - one that usually makes vodka, whiskey, gin, etc. - check their FB/web page, or call to see if they have hand sanitizer. My local sells it in gallons, or 2oz, at about cost to make. I've read about places in other parts of the country doing similar things. Helps a local business, helps you.
Yes! There is a place nearby that changed from making whiskey to hand sanitizer. I heard they sell the bottle (32 oz., I think? I don't drink whiskey, so not exactly sure what the bottle size is) for $35. That may be a little expensive for that size of container, but not terrible. Also, they are new to making it and I'm sure materials went up in cost too... so probably is about right. They were supplying the nearest hospital as well and not sure if they were charging or how much. If not, that explains part of the cost too. Either way, $35 for about a liter isn't bad.
Local central IL distillery is selling hand sanitizer for $56.65 a gallon. Don't know where you're at but sounds high.
That's equivalent to 88 cents for the standard 2 oz. personal size container. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's hard to remember the "before times," especially since personal hand sanitizer was kind of a random purchase for me, not something I was buying regularly, but my best recollection is about $1.50 for a 2 oz. bottle. Of course, you normally expect a volume discount when you buy a large container.
And for the $35 dollar for a whiskey bottle from an earlier poster -- the "standard" whiskey bottle is a "fifth" (fifth of a gallon), so assuming that's what they're using, that's a little pricey -- about $2.73 per 2 oz.
I suspect it's relevant that the distilleries are set up to make food-grade alcohol, and are kind of shoe-stringing some of the hand sanitizer production, so maybe higher cost of staffing/production. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I know my local** was struggling at first with sourcing things like suitable plastic bottles that they don't usually use, and I suspect they didn't have great equipment for efficiently fillng such bottles, etc.
** Which is selling 2 oz bottles for $2, not sure about prices for larger, but they have gallons - they said that's pricing approximately at cost, and - knowing them - I expect that's true. At first, they had people bring their own plastic bottles, which they'd sanitize, fill, then re-sanitize before giving back - not exactly efficient industrial scale processes. They've now sourced their own bottles, but I suspect at higher unit cost than Purell pays, and I assume the production process is still not hyper-efficient, either.
The distillery near where I live is using the same bottles they normally use for whiskey, but just putting different labels on the for hand sanitizer.
Mine never sold 2-oz bottles of liquor. They may be using the old stock for some bigger size, but all they've mentioned is 2-oz and gallon; their spirits are sold in liters, and beer (it's also a brewery) in cans.
I don't think this one has 2 oz bottles either. It's a bottle like what you would get for whiskey... IDK, a liter or something like that. As I said earlier, I don't drink and have no idea how many ounces are in a normal bottle of whiskey. And I haven't gone to buy any, this is just what my neighbor told me.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"
This is what concerns me. I think we could reasonably safely open up a lot of businesses, if people were just capable of continuing to obey social distancing advisories. They had a piece on "60 Minutes" yesterday of an automobile plant that has retooled to produce ventilators, and they have erected plastic barriers between work stations, everyone was wearing masks, and they had smart watches that buzzed if they got within six feet of another smart watch (also storing data on what watches they were near, for future contact tracing if necessary). And the company is doing all that because people are people, and if you don't have systems in place to stop them, they're going to go back to their old ways of swapping germs and not washing their hands.
They are adding a mask requirement for indoor shopping and places where you can't maintain 6 ft of separation, but opening up some of the closed outdoor areas and then adding as new essential businesses "greenhouses, garden centers and nurseries" (many of which were already doing business through curbside and delivery, and Home Depot was open). "These stores must follow social distancing requirements and must require that employees and customers wear a face covering."
"Animal grooming services may also re-open," and "[r]etail stores not designated as non-essential businesses and operations may re-open to fulfill telephone and online orders through pick-up outside the store and delivery."
This seems reasonable to me. However, a politician downstate sued to prevent the order from applying to him, so clearly others disagree. I don't think a majority, and I get the impression the police here are enforcing the orders and concerned for their own safety in that they are on the front lines of having to deal with people who may have the virus and are not compliant. (Mostly enforcement is ticketing and breaking things up.)4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
Even with the restrictions, nobody was authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns. This is the kind of rhetoric that is incredibly unhelpful. I don't even know how you got there. It's like some kind of fever dream fantasy.
Have you been reading about the mental health issues related to COVID-19? I just see an undercurrent that is dangerous for the safety of law officers. Some are losing everything and we know alcohol sales are up and gun sales are up. Did you read Cwolfmann's link over the number of COVID-19 deaths?
Law officers are starting to stand down over governors orders because they understand the time/risk factor on unproven restrictions is increasing. I think everyone posting here wants to do what is best and understand they are going to get COVID-19 sooner or later but want it to be much later.
We know with the schools closed it is causing some kids harm because they may not have a safe environment and food like when the schools were open. The schools will not be opening in 4 months from now if we do not get more COVID-19 cases behind us. Sweden may be proven wrong yet time will tell.
https://aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sweden-avoids-full-lockdown-pm-insists-restrictions-continue-200420173945004.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/dont-judge-swedens-light-touch-on-covid-19-yet-says-minister
"Stockholm authorities shut down five pubs and restaurants that failed to observe the recommendations this weekend, only allowing customers time to finish their food before obliging them to leave.
“This was a strong signal,” Linde said. “These are not voluntary measures. You are meant to follow them. We believe the best way for us is a combination of some binding regulations and clear advice to the public. As far as possible, we want to build on a strong, longstanding relationship of trust between authorities and the public.”
There is plenty of evidence that most people are falling in line, she said, citing a 96% fall in reservations at the country’s two most popular domestic holiday destinations after the government repeated its advice to stay at home over the Easter break. The country’s rate of infection is also showing signs of levelling off and the Public Health Agency estimates up to 20% of its population has contracted the virus.
Linde said she “would have been surprised if there had not been criticism” of the strategy, spearheaded by the country’s chief epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, who has described it as being not about creating “herd immunity” but containing the spread of the virus while preserving the capacity of the health service to respond.
Some of the country’s leading medical professors and academics have been fiercely critical of the decision not to follow much of the rest of Europe into strict lockdown, publishing open letters and petitions calling for an urgent change of course and highlighting a death toll which, at 2,194, is three times the per-million tally recorded in Denmark and Germany and more than six times that of Finland.
Linde said Sweden’s relatively high death toll was “certainly not part of the plan” but conceded that the exceptional number of deaths in care homes, which so far account for more than half of all the country’s deaths from the coronavirus, was “one area where we have failed”.
The government passed early binding legislation banning visits to care homes for elderly people, she said, “but still the virus got in and a lot of deaths have occurred. We don’t know why this is – perhaps because some homes did not observe regulations, perhaps because staff’s jobs were not secure so they felt they could not afford to take sick leave … We’re investigating.”
Worth noting that people take the actions they do in part because of hospital capacity. Sweden had/has enormous faith in its hospital capacity and medical care. I suspect many parts of the rural US does not have such faith, but if you all don't care, do what you want. Herd immunity seems not to apply as increasingly it seems no immunity.
The IL lawsuit I mentioned above was largely because downstate (well, some downstate) sees this as a Chicago metro problem, but Chicago is actually better off in terms of hospital capacity than some other parts of the state and at least some parts of Chicago have been tested a lot more (Chicago, of course, has huge income inequality which means you cannot generalize). Clearly denser areas are being hit harder in most cases, however.
That WA has counties not complying doesn't surprise me -- my dad and his wife live in WA (she is really careful, thank goodness, and demands that he be), but their county has only 39 cases and no deaths, and many eastern counties have fewer.
For comparison, my zip code (there are 164 zip codes in my county) has 468 cases now (we are by no means the highest). I gave a sq ft estimate before, but was wrong -- we are about 20 blocks (2.5 miles) east to west and about 12 blocks (1.5 miles) north to south, so 3.75 sq miles, meaning 125 cases per sq mile. I'm lucky, I can work from home, I have a back yard to garden in, I can walk or run and mostly keep a 6 ft distance, but I still am frustrated by what seems to be the subtext of some of this discussion -- who cares about people in cities, they deserve what they get. So sorry if I'm a bit offended by your "I guess no more lockdown, let's all go get the virus" take.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
Even with the restrictions, nobody was authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns. This is the kind of rhetoric that is incredibly unhelpful. I don't even know how you got there. It's like some kind of fever dream fantasy.
Have you been reading about the mental health issues related to COVID-19? I just see an undercurrent that is dangerous for the safety of law officers. Some are losing everything and we know alcohol sales are up and gun sales are up. Did you read Cwolfmann's link over the number of COVID-19 deaths?
Law officers are starting to stand down over governors orders because they understand the time/risk factor on unproven restrictions is increasing. I think everyone posting here wants to do what is best and understand they are going to get COVID-19 sooner or later but want it to be much later.
We know with the schools closed it is causing some kids harm because they may not have a safe environment and food like when the schools were open. The schools will not be opening in 4 months from now if we do not get more COVID-19 cases behind us. Sweden may be proven wrong yet time will tell.
https://aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sweden-avoids-full-lockdown-pm-insists-restrictions-continue-200420173945004.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/dont-judge-swedens-light-touch-on-covid-19-yet-says-minister
I think it will be interesting to see the outcome. Their goal of not overloading the healthcare workers seems to be working so far. The thought is their blow back may be much less than that is expected when the USA opens up in the coming weeks but time will tell. Looks like we started phase #1 to reopen today.
https://cnn.com/interactive/2020/us/states-reopen-coronavirus-trnd/
Kentucky will begin phase one on April 27, which will include restarting diagnostic, radiology, non-urgent, in-person, office and ambulatory visits.
"We are also going to allow pre-aesthesia testing services to restart in preparation for the surgical ramp up," Beshear said.
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cmriverside wrote: »earlnabby, can you use whey protein powder? I would think it would work.
It is even more thick and rich than buttermilk powder, Definitely will not work.1 -
I was all excited because I noticed that the Walgreens website showed there was some toilet paper in stock at my local store:
So I rushed over there and found that the internet was wrong... should have known better.
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I went to two stores on Saturday, looking for rice for my sick dog. No luck. Today I went back to the same two. There was none in the larger chain store, but they had hand sanitzer and Chlorox bleach up near the checkout line. The smaller store had both white and brown rice. Small boxes, but at least I got some. I've only seen TP twice in the past 6 weeks. Walmart had some small packages, and i bought two as backup. Then a week later DH found a 16 pack. Now we don't have to think about it. My husband also found a box of supplies he had stored in the garage in case of disaster about 6 years ago. I knew nothing about it. We now have enough mac n'cheese, Spam, and dried milk to get us through a couple of weeks.
For the person looking for dried milk: an Hispanic grocery or the Hispanic section of your grocery might sell it as NIDO. It's whole milk, rather than the skim that is usually sold. We use it backpacking.5 -
The only grocery item I am continuing to have trouble finding is yeast!
Luckily sliced bread supplies have settled down, so it's not a big deal, but I do like to bake bread on a fairly regular basis.
Other than that, there has been the odd thing out of stock, but mostly easily substituted for something similar.
Oh, and hand sanitiser I think is a rare thing, but being home on lockdown, I haven't needed to replenish my small supply.1 -
Got lemons, make lemonade. If you can’t find yeast, it’s a perfect opportunity to explore quickbreads, flatbreads, etc.5
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"
This is what concerns me. I think we could reasonably safely open up a lot of businesses, if people were just capable of continuing to obey social distancing advisories. They had a piece on "60 Minutes" yesterday of an automobile plant that has retooled to produce ventilators, and they have erected plastic barriers between work stations, everyone was wearing masks, and they had smart watches that buzzed if they got within six feet of another smart watch (also storing data on what watches they were near, for future contact tracing if necessary). And the company is doing all that because people are people, and if you don't have systems in place to stop them, they're going to go back to their old ways of swapping germs and not washing their hands.
They are adding a mask requirement for indoor shopping and places where you can't maintain 6 ft of separation, but opening up some of the closed outdoor areas and then adding as new essential businesses "greenhouses, garden centers and nurseries" (many of which were already doing business through curbside and delivery, and Home Depot was open). "These stores must follow social distancing requirements and must require that employees and customers wear a face covering."
"Animal grooming services may also re-open," and "[r]etail stores not designated as non-essential businesses and operations may re-open to fulfill telephone and online orders through pick-up outside the store and delivery."
This seems reasonable to me. However, a politician downstate sued to prevent the order from applying to him, so clearly others disagree. I don't think a majority, and I get the impression the police here are enforcing the orders and concerned for their own safety in that they are on the front lines of having to deal with people who may have the virus and are not compliant. (Mostly enforcement is ticketing and breaking things up.)
To clarify, I have concerns far short of intentional violations of restrictions.
I think there's a difference between effective social distancing and nominal, perfunctory compliance with the bare letter of restrictions. I don't have a lot of faith that folks wearing homemade cloth masks and bandanas (not their fault -- that's what's available), touching their faces right over their mouths and noses about every 20 seconds (based on my observations of folks in essential businesses and out walking -- I've even seen this in interviews with medical personnel on local news), mistaking three feet for six feet, not comprehending that talking when you're standing that close to someone presents increased risk, just as sneezing or coughing does .... I don't have a lot of faith with that as our baseline, that lifting restrictions with rules about social distancing will lead to effective social distancing.9 -
Just now seeing a story on the local news of the local NFL team's first-round draft pick (who is a local kid -- well, local young man), who said that after the draft he went to visit one of his new team mates. They had video of him walking out of a house with other young men gesturing in celebratory fashion, far less than six feet away, none of them wearing face coverings. I suppose that could have been his own home, and all those other young men live in the same household, but if that's the case, I think the news station should have made that clear. I don't think either the athlete (going to visit other households) or the news station were doing a good job of exemplifying socially responsible behavior.
And this is what I expect will happen as things open back up with advisories to continue social distancing. Most people will find excuses to think that social distancing doesn't apply to them in this situation or that situation.10 -
The latest weird thing to be missing from local grocery stores is salt. They had sea salt and kosher salt but not normal iodized salt.
Today’s local (Shelby county TN) press conference outlined a 4 phase plan for gradually reopening the county. It sounds good on paper - maintain social distancing, wear masks, check temperatures, only move to the next phase after 14 days “green” indicators such as flat number of new cases - but the main problem I have is that “phase zero” which is what we’re in currently isn’t being observed. For example supposedly all personnel at restaurants who either handle food or interact with the public are currently required by law to wear face masks or the restaurant has to be shut down. This is not happening now, why would compliance increase in the future?
I don’t see a situation in the future in which retail outlets will check temperature of customers, either. Local stores just don’t have those point and shoot thermometers and even if we could get them, no one would be willing to use them. Stores wouldn’t do it and customers here wouldn’t put up with it.4 -
Just saw on Twitter some pics of a barber shop that opened today in Georgia. Only the barber is wearing a mask, none of the patrons (not even the one in the chair). Only two people were allowed to wait in the shop, the rest were lined up outside. But the shop is small, and while it's hard to tell with perspective and distance, they did not look to be 6 ft apart. The owner said a line had already formed when he opened at 7 am. I hope that this one shop isn't typical, but this is exactly what I'm afraid of.
I guess Georgia and a couple of other states due to lift restrictions soon will be the canary in the coal mine.6 -
corinasue1143 wrote: »Got lemons, make lemonade. If you can’t find yeast, it’s a perfect opportunity to explore quickbreads, flatbreads, etc.
Yes, I ought to be a bit more creative. There's a beer bread recipe doing the rounds I might have to try 😃5 -
The only grocery item I am continuing to have trouble finding is yeast!
Luckily sliced bread supplies have settled down, so it's not a big deal, but I do like to bake bread on a fairly regular basis.
Other than that, there has been the odd thing out of stock, but mostly easily substituted for something similar.
Oh, and hand sanitiser I think is a rare thing, but being home on lockdown, I haven't needed to replenish my small supply.
I found hand sanitiser at my local New World last week. It smells like raspberry lollies (followed by alcohol, so maybe raspberry vodka, not lollies...).
6 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"
This is what concerns me. I think we could reasonably safely open up a lot of businesses, if people were just capable of continuing to obey social distancing advisories. They had a piece on "60 Minutes" yesterday of an automobile plant that has retooled to produce ventilators, and they have erected plastic barriers between work stations, everyone was wearing masks, and they had smart watches that buzzed if they got within six feet of another smart watch (also storing data on what watches they were near, for future contact tracing if necessary). And the company is doing all that because people are people, and if you don't have systems in place to stop them, they're going to go back to their old ways of swapping germs and not washing their hands.
They are adding a mask requirement for indoor shopping and places where you can't maintain 6 ft of separation, but opening up some of the closed outdoor areas and then adding as new essential businesses "greenhouses, garden centers and nurseries" (many of which were already doing business through curbside and delivery, and Home Depot was open). "These stores must follow social distancing requirements and must require that employees and customers wear a face covering."
"Animal grooming services may also re-open," and "[r]etail stores not designated as non-essential businesses and operations may re-open to fulfill telephone and online orders through pick-up outside the store and delivery."
This seems reasonable to me. However, a politician downstate sued to prevent the order from applying to him, so clearly others disagree. I don't think a majority, and I get the impression the police here are enforcing the orders and concerned for their own safety in that they are on the front lines of having to deal with people who may have the virus and are not compliant. (Mostly enforcement is ticketing and breaking things up.)
To clarify, I have concerns far short of intentional violations of restrictions.
I think there's a difference between effective social distancing and nominal, perfunctory compliance with the bare letter of restrictions. I don't have a lot of faith that folks wearing homemade cloth masks and bandanas (not their fault -- that's what's available), touching their faces right over their mouths and noses about every 20 seconds (based on my observations of folks in essential businesses and out walking -- I've even seen this in interviews with medical personnel on local news), mistaking three feet for six feet, not comprehending that talking when you're standing that close to someone presents increased risk, just as sneezing or coughing does .... I don't have a lot of faith with that as our baseline, that lifting restrictions with rules about social distancing will lead to effective social distancing.
Not sure why this is the response to my post, but I will say that I don't think people are mistaking 6 ft for 3, and most of the time in my neighborhood I see 6 ft of distancing, and it's easy outside.
Masks are a mixed bag, of course.
I really don't see a big deal with opening up curbside pickup and most outdoor spaces.
The issue with violations of social distancing aren't people mistaking 6 ft for 3 ft, but people who, for whatever reason, don't care at all, like a crazy huge house party that was shut down here or people trying to make points for social media. I don't get it, but it's happening.4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Things are looking promising here. It has been a few days since the last new case. 2-4 cases daily, all are either children who are already at the hospital with their sick parents or import drivers who test positive at the border before entering the country (but mostly drivers).
Most things are open now under strict sanitation and distancing rules (even non-essentials). There aren't any plans to open gathering places yet (churches, mosques, wedding venues, clubs...etc). Restaurants are all open for delivery and pickup. Almost half the provinces are almost back to life as usual and can drive freely. The rest can drive but with restrictions. Cars with an even plate number drive one day, and cars with an odd number drive the next. No more than 2 people in one car. Public transport is now also open at 30% capacity.
People are...well... people. They're not distancing as much as they should be. It's Ramadan and they're flooding to buy food without any regard for safety. Some places are better organized than others - we've been buying and freezing bread once every 10 or so days to avoid crowds at bread bakeries and buying our vegetables at the grocery store (more expensive) because produce stores are less organized. I used to get upset at people, but I feel less upset now, probably because it's looking good right now. I have resigned to "people are people, and will keep doing what people do"
This is what concerns me. I think we could reasonably safely open up a lot of businesses, if people were just capable of continuing to obey social distancing advisories. They had a piece on "60 Minutes" yesterday of an automobile plant that has retooled to produce ventilators, and they have erected plastic barriers between work stations, everyone was wearing masks, and they had smart watches that buzzed if they got within six feet of another smart watch (also storing data on what watches they were near, for future contact tracing if necessary). And the company is doing all that because people are people, and if you don't have systems in place to stop them, they're going to go back to their old ways of swapping germs and not washing their hands.
They are adding a mask requirement for indoor shopping and places where you can't maintain 6 ft of separation, but opening up some of the closed outdoor areas and then adding as new essential businesses "greenhouses, garden centers and nurseries" (many of which were already doing business through curbside and delivery, and Home Depot was open). "These stores must follow social distancing requirements and must require that employees and customers wear a face covering."
"Animal grooming services may also re-open," and "[r]etail stores not designated as non-essential businesses and operations may re-open to fulfill telephone and online orders through pick-up outside the store and delivery."
This seems reasonable to me. However, a politician downstate sued to prevent the order from applying to him, so clearly others disagree. I don't think a majority, and I get the impression the police here are enforcing the orders and concerned for their own safety in that they are on the front lines of having to deal with people who may have the virus and are not compliant. (Mostly enforcement is ticketing and breaking things up.)
To clarify, I have concerns far short of intentional violations of restrictions.
I think there's a difference between effective social distancing and nominal, perfunctory compliance with the bare letter of restrictions. I don't have a lot of faith that folks wearing homemade cloth masks and bandanas (not their fault -- that's what's available), touching their faces right over their mouths and noses about every 20 seconds (based on my observations of folks in essential businesses and out walking -- I've even seen this in interviews with medical personnel on local news), mistaking three feet for six feet, not comprehending that talking when you're standing that close to someone presents increased risk, just as sneezing or coughing does .... I don't have a lot of faith with that as our baseline, that lifting restrictions with rules about social distancing will lead to effective social distancing.
Not sure why this is the response to my post, but I will say that I don't think people are mistaking 6 ft for 3, and most of the time in my neighborhood I see 6 ft of distancing, and it's easy outside.
Masks are a mixed bag, of course.
I really don't see a big deal with opening up curbside pickup and most outdoor spaces.
The issue with violations of social distancing aren't people mistaking 6 ft for 3 ft, but people who, for whatever reason, don't care at all, like a crazy huge house party that was shut down here or people trying to make points for social media. I don't get it, but it's happening.
I have observed an interesting phenomenon lately: people who used to care but now don't. I think people are getting tired and are starting to compartmentalize. Some just don't want to think about it anymore and whatever will be will be - feeling semi-normal right now is more rewarding than slowing infection rate for a better future outcome.
Edit: I have even noticed changes in my own behavior. The novel virus stopped triggering novel feelings. I still follow all regulations and recommendations, and I rarely go out, but I've noticed I'm less vigilant with disinfecting packages and I wash my hands less often (I do wash them when it matters, I just don't wash them randomly and often like I used to do).17 -
This explanation fits my observations much better than the "people are using more household TP and less commercial TP" story: https://nationalpost.com/life/covid-19-toilet-paper-shortage
I'm not arguing it's untrue that people use more at home, just that it isn't so much more that it can explain the severity of shortage I am seeing. Then again, it sounds like the severity I am seeing is much worse than what people in other parts of the U.S. are seeing.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
Even with the restrictions, nobody was authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns. This is the kind of rhetoric that is incredibly unhelpful. I don't even know how you got there. It's like some kind of fever dream fantasy.
Have you been reading about the mental health issues related to COVID-19? I just see an undercurrent that is dangerous for the safety of law officers. Some are losing everything and we know alcohol sales are up and gun sales are up. Did you read Cwolfmann's link over the number of COVID-19 deaths?
Law officers are starting to stand down over governors orders because they understand the time/risk factor on unproven restrictions is increasing. I think everyone posting here wants to do what is best and understand they are going to get COVID-19 sooner or later but want it to be much later.
We know with the schools closed it is causing some kids harm because they may not have a safe environment and food like when the schools were open. The schools will not be opening in 4 months from now if we do not get more COVID-19 cases behind us. Sweden may be proven wrong yet time will tell.
https://aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sweden-avoids-full-lockdown-pm-insists-restrictions-continue-200420173945004.html
According to some metrics, like alcohol sales, it is totally possible that people are drinking more. I still don't understand how you get to law enforcement being authorized to "mow down unarmed citizens."8 -
The only grocery item I am continuing to have trouble finding is yeast!
Luckily sliced bread supplies have settled down, so it's not a big deal, but I do like to bake bread on a fairly regular basis.
Other than that, there has been the odd thing out of stock, but mostly easily substituted for something similar.
Oh, and hand sanitiser I think is a rare thing, but being home on lockdown, I haven't needed to replenish my small supply.
Might be time to harvest all of that wild yeast in the air and try sourdough starter. I am having fun with mine.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
With the lock down being effectively over in the USA where law enforcement are not authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns . . .
Dude, what on earth?
I noted I was only speaking about USA laws. The news article explains how states are removing more and more restraints on people. This will help prevent social unrest even if medically if it is a step backwards. No one knows what to do in these times.
Even with the restrictions, nobody was authorized to mow down unarmed citizens with machine guns. This is the kind of rhetoric that is incredibly unhelpful. I don't even know how you got there. It's like some kind of fever dream fantasy.
Have you been reading about the mental health issues related to COVID-19? I just see an undercurrent that is dangerous for the safety of law officers. Some are losing everything and we know alcohol sales are up and gun sales are up. Did you read Cwolfmann's link over the number of COVID-19 deaths?
Law officers are starting to stand down over governors orders because they understand the time/risk factor on unproven restrictions is increasing. I think everyone posting here wants to do what is best and understand they are going to get COVID-19 sooner or later but want it to be much later.
We know with the schools closed it is causing some kids harm because they may not have a safe environment and food like when the schools were open. The schools will not be opening in 4 months from now if we do not get more COVID-19 cases behind us. Sweden may be proven wrong yet time will tell.
https://aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/sweden-avoids-full-lockdown-pm-insists-restrictions-continue-200420173945004.html
According to some metrics, like alcohol sales, it is totally possible that people are drinking more. I still don't understand how you get to law enforcement being authorized to "mow down unarmed citizens."
Maybe I'm wrong, but I read Gale to be sad police were not authorized to use machine guns to mow down unarmed citizens. I hope he corrects me if I am wrong.
Alcohol sales are up across the board in the US. Gun sales are up in Kentucky, which might be affecting Gale's POV. Crime is up here, so I somewhat get it, although shooting a cop (or anyone) is still not in my imagination, so I don't get that.4 -
The only grocery item I am continuing to have trouble finding is yeast!
Luckily sliced bread supplies have settled down, so it's not a big deal, but I do like to bake bread on a fairly regular basis.
Other than that, there has been the odd thing out of stock, but mostly easily substituted for something similar.
Oh, and hand sanitiser I think is a rare thing, but being home on lockdown, I haven't needed to replenish my small supply.
Might be time to harvest all of that wild yeast in the air and try sourdough starter. I am having fun with mine.
Nice day to work on my garden!3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »This explanation fits my observations much better than the "people are using more household TP and less commercial TP" story: https://nationalpost.com/life/covid-19-toilet-paper-shortage
I'm not arguing it's untrue that people use more at home, just that it isn't so much more that it can explain the severity of shortage I am seeing. Then again, it sounds like the severity I am seeing is much worse than what people in other parts of the U.S. are seeing.
As I noted before, I went to the grocery store at 6 pm and got TP, so at this point it seems a regional issue. Maybe TN is more of a hoarder state.0
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