Coronavirus prep
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Had to go to the doctor's actual office today (worried there may be a real health problem, not Covid, but needed in-person exam). Got sent to the lab (same building) for immediate blood draws.
Oh, yuck. Some things were OK (symptom checker at door, hand sanitizer everywhere, one station had "clean pens" and "dirty pens" jars, etc.). Everyone had a mask, but lots (including some staff) not wearing them properly. The seats in the lab waiting room were marked with a square on the floor where people were supposed to sit, but people seemed to be totally ignoring that. The facility asked people to come solo unless needing assistance, but there were adults there with adult companions (whom they didn't seem to need for mobility or intellectual/interpreter kind of reasons). The number of people who were fiddling with the business part of their face mask constantly, or their glasses, or whatever . . . yikes. I really, really didn't want to be there, but thought I needed to be. SIgh.
In both waiting rooms, I stood rather than sat . . . and yes, people looked at me like something was wrong with me, just as they do if I stand in waiting rooms during non-Covid times (which I sometimes do, because I can, plus NEAT.
).
Ugh.15 -
snowflake954 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Here, in Italy, some masks are becoming fashion statements. The guy at the coffee bar has a big black mustache on his. In Rome, most are wearing masks and there are no protests as in the States. Some refuse to wear one, but can't enter stores, or other establishments without. I would put forward that fashion is a huge motivator. If famous people started wearing them and were interviewed, I dare say things might change.
I would suggest that most people not wearing masks couldn't give a rat's behind what some "influencer" (man I hate that word) or self-defined fashion expert wearing a mask was saying.
Oh yeh? Don't hang around young folks much, do you?
It's not really the young people here not complying...it's mostly middle age, "you can't take my freedoms" people. It has also stupidly become a big partisan politics thing.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Here, in Italy, some masks are becoming fashion statements. The guy at the coffee bar has a big black mustache on his. In Rome, most are wearing masks and there are no protests as in the States. Some refuse to wear one, but can't enter stores, or other establishments without. I would put forward that fashion is a huge motivator. If famous people started wearing them and were interviewed, I dare say things might change.
I would suggest that most people not wearing masks couldn't give a rat's behind what some "influencer" (man I hate that word) or self-defined fashion expert wearing a mask was saying.
I think you underestimate the power of pop culture to affect the behavior of some percentage of not-very-rational people. Every mask rebel? No, not every one. Not even a majority. But some. Just my opinion, obviously.
I doubt we'll get a chance to test the proposition, though.
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Had to go to the doctor's actual office today (worried there may be a real health problem, not Covid, but needed in-person exam). Got sent to the lab (same building) for immediate blood draws.
Oh, yuck. Some things were OK (symptom checker at door, hand sanitizer everywhere, one station had "clean pens" and "dirty pens" jars, etc.). Everyone had a mask, but lots (including some staff) not wearing them properly. The seats in the lab waiting room were marked with a square on the floor where people were supposed to sit, but people seemed to be totally ignoring that. The facility asked people to come solo unless needing assistance, but there were adults there with adult companions (whom they didn't seem to need for mobility or intellectual/interpreter kind of reasons). The number of people who were fiddling with the business part of their face mask constantly, or their glasses, or whatever . . . yikes. I really, really didn't want to be there, but thought I needed to be. SIgh.
In both waiting rooms, I stood rather than sat . . . and yes, people looked at me like something was wrong with me, just as they do if I stand in waiting rooms during non-Covid times (which I sometimes do, because I can, plus NEAT. ).
Ugh.
Wow. I have a whole different story about visiting the dr. this morning for an existing issue... not sure I am willing to share details right now, but short story is that the effect of their policy encourages people to avoid getting tested. I am trying to figure out if that was the intent or not. Now I am pondering if I ever visit that dr. again.8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Here, in Italy, some masks are becoming fashion statements. The guy at the coffee bar has a big black mustache on his. In Rome, most are wearing masks and there are no protests as in the States. Some refuse to wear one, but can't enter stores, or other establishments without. I would put forward that fashion is a huge motivator. If famous people started wearing them and were interviewed, I dare say things might change.
I would suggest that most people not wearing masks couldn't give a rat's behind what some "influencer" (man I hate that word) or self-defined fashion expert wearing a mask was saying.
Oh yeh? Don't hang around young folks much, do you?
It's not really the young people here not complying...it's mostly middle age, "you can't take my freedoms" people. It has also stupidly become a big partisan politics thing.
Our compliance is fairly high on all fronts, and numbers keep going down. But, in the beginning, when we started Lockdown, a goodly number of famous people--singers, actors, etc, did zooms, and other clips, explaining why it was necessary. This went on for several weeks. I think it set the tone for everyone. I don't like a lot of these people, and don't follow their lead, but it was helpful for a wide swath of the public. Does everyone here wear a mask--no. Does everyone wear it properly--no. But the majority (including myself) do. I'm noticing some fun masks as I go about Rome, and I think that helps.
We will be wearing them when we go to the beach next week. There's a complicated procedure for access. Wear masks, temps taken, bracelet to be worn to register comings and goings, turnstile, no beach bar just vending machines, and umbrellas further apart. Masks are to be worn until you reach your umbrella and chairs. Only 4 adults under every umbrella. Either you do it, or no access. Same with stores. It's sort of like "no shirt, no shoes, no service".3 -
snowflake954 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Here, in Italy, some masks are becoming fashion statements. The guy at the coffee bar has a big black mustache on his. In Rome, most are wearing masks and there are no protests as in the States. Some refuse to wear one, but can't enter stores, or other establishments without. I would put forward that fashion is a huge motivator. If famous people started wearing them and were interviewed, I dare say things might change.
I would suggest that most people not wearing masks couldn't give a rat's behind what some "influencer" (man I hate that word) or self-defined fashion expert wearing a mask was saying.
Oh yeh? Don't hang around young folks much, do you?
It's not really the young people here not complying...it's mostly middle age, "you can't take my freedoms" people. It has also stupidly become a big partisan politics thing.
Our compliance is fairly high on all fronts, and numbers keep going down. But, in the beginning, when we started Lockdown, a goodly number of famous people--singers, actors, etc, did zooms, and other clips, explaining why it was necessary. This went on for several weeks. I think it set the tone for everyone. I don't like a lot of these people, and don't follow their lead, but it was helpful for a wide swath of the public. Does everyone here wear a mask--no. Does everyone wear it properly--no. But the majority (including myself) do. I'm noticing some fun masks as I go about Rome, and I think that helps.
We will be wearing them when we go to the beach next week. There's a complicated procedure for access. Wear masks, temps taken, bracelet to be worn to register comings and goings, turnstile, no beach bar just vending machines, and umbrellas further apart. Masks are to be worn until you reach your umbrella and chairs. Only 4 adults under every umbrella. Either you do it, or no access. Same with stores. It's sort of like "no shirt, no shoes, no service".
I'm not going to go very far with this statement, but will remind folks that here in the US, some very influential people helped create the "mask rebels" trend (and I'm not talking about just one person, either). That influence isn't the whole story, but it's part of the story.
From watching the Facebook feeds of a couple of my friends who are fairly far out on the fringes so following some . . . questionable** . . . FB and web sources, I suspect that troll farms of various sorts, probably including international actors, are amplifying this divide when they can, as they amplify other divisions.
** Objectively questionable, in some cases, such as falling for self-admitted satire sites, mistaking them for real news. Think Onion, only meaner.
Please note: I've not said what ideological tack any of these friends are on. There are some at each pole, actually, and some individuals way less . . . discriminating? . . . than others about identifying BS.
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So, for background, in my county our floating average of daily cases has more than doubled, hospitalizations have more than doubled, and positivity rate has more than doubled. We are a hot spot in a hot state, getting worse daily.
I did my two weeks shopping and chores for my own household and my mother today. I am so fed up and frustrated with people. We did a pickup at Kroger. As usual they didn’t bother to get half the stuff, so my husband had to go in, where the stuff they were supposedly out of was readily available on shelves. The guy who brought our stuff out wasn’t wearing a mask. Local ordinance says he has to. My husband asked where his mask was, and he said, “Oh, they want us to wear them, but I’m not worried about it. I don’t feel sick and I haven’t been anywhere.”
So my husband had to have a talk with his manager. Who claimed to be appalled. But then he spotted the same manager talking to a stocker with his mask over his chin. Zero masks on customers.
Next, Walgreens. Masks on everyone working there, but chin only. No masks on customers.
Then trying to get an octagenerian to operate zoom. We got my mom hooked up, then realized all the friends she is trying to zoom with are octagenarians too. So had to provide tech support for half a dozen different people. My mom’s thing is forgetting all her passwords and resetting them after being locked out for entering them wrong. So she has a book for all her different passwords. Which has no indication of which password does which thing. She seems to think they are interchangeable. That took a good three hours.
Then the gas station. They have fried chicken there and I suggested some as a treat, since we were half past fed up. My husband came out complaining that he was literally bumped into by 18 different people, none wearing masks except one construction worker. I said that if that was the case he should have just left, and he said he didn’t want to disappoint me. I said I would rather be disappointed than dead. At least the chicken and the people who made it were behind plexiglas.
Our mayor has said we are not dropping back to phase 1, because what would be the point when people aren’t even following phase 2? He said that without community buy-in, there aren’t enough cops in the world to enforce proper behavior. And that the community seemed to think covid came with an off switch, that when they entered phase 2 everyone just stopped trying.
I just would prefer not to die, please, and no one else seems all that interested in helping me stay alive. Grrrrrrrrr.19 -
Re: medical - my husband had his regular appointment with his GP last week. Temperature was taken before he left the car (but not mine, and I always go in with him). The nurse wore a mask, but not correctly, and from her conversation, that was pretty much deliberate. The GP said he prefers in person visits because you miss too much with a virtual visit. I agree. A few weeks ago, my husband had a telephone consultation with a neurologist. We were told the next appointment would be in person, but no, despite the fact that our county has gone to green and has very few cases ATM, it is going to be another phone call. For a new patient who needs an accurate diagnosis, just asking questions isn't enough, IMO. She gave him a prescription based on his symptoms, but I would feel so much better if she was actually seeing him. It's frustrating to wonder what medical issues are falling through the cracks because either patients or doctors are afraid of in person visits.12
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's interesting, we're seeing a lot of the same arguments that came up when public places and private businesses all started to ban smoking. People lamented about their personal freedoms and said "If I want to take the risk, then that's my business and my right."
How was it when seat belt use became mandatory in automobiles? Were there contingents running around stamping their feet and complaining that their freedom to splatter themselves on pavement at high velocity was being taken away?
Is anyone old enough to remember? I was pretty young when it became law here so I wouldn't have been aware of any backlash. 6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Here, in Italy, some masks are becoming fashion statements. The guy at the coffee bar has a big black mustache on his. In Rome, most are wearing masks and there are no protests as in the States. Some refuse to wear one, but can't enter stores, or other establishments without. I would put forward that fashion is a huge motivator. If famous people started wearing them and were interviewed, I dare say things might change.
I would suggest that most people not wearing masks couldn't give a rat's behind what some "influencer" (man I hate that word) or self-defined fashion expert wearing a mask was saying.
Oh yeh? Don't hang around young folks much, do you?
It's not really the young people here not complying...it's mostly middle age, "you can't take my freedoms" people. It has also stupidly become a big partisan politics thing.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Politics lean waaaaaay to one direction here. I've been out with the wife quite a bit lately, both to the beach in Pacifica and to downtown San Carlos, Redwood City and San Mateo for walks and outdoor dining. What I've anecdotally experienced here is it's almost ALWAYS teens and adults in their 20's running around without masks and we have had new orders since last week mandating them except for very specific situations... and a bustling downtown where consistent social distancing is impossible on most streets isn't one of them. The older people, as in this thread, seem hyper aware of the dangers and are taking things much more seriously than most.
edit: not to mention the young parents in my neighborhood that have been meeting in the grassy commons for the last two months allowing their very young children to play together while they stand around, sans masks, talking to each other.6 -
rheddmobile wrote: »So, for background, in my county our floating average of daily cases has more than doubled, hospitalizations have more than doubled, and positivity rate has more than doubled. We are a hot spot in a hot state, getting worse daily.
I did my two weeks shopping and chores for my own household and my mother today. I am so fed up and frustrated with people. We did a pickup at Kroger. As usual they didn’t bother to get half the stuff, so my husband had to go in, where the stuff they were supposedly out of was readily available on shelves. The guy who brought our stuff out wasn’t wearing a mask. Local ordinance says he has to. My husband asked where his mask was, and he said, “Oh, they want us to wear them, but I’m not worried about it. I don’t feel sick and I haven’t been anywhere.”
So my husband had to have a talk with his manager. Who claimed to be appalled. But then he spotted the same manager talking to a stocker with his mask over his chin. Zero masks on customers.
Next, Walgreens. Masks on everyone working there, but chin only. No masks on customers.
Then trying to get an octagenerian to operate zoom. We got my mom hooked up, then realized all the friends she is trying to zoom with are octagenarians too. So had to provide tech support for half a dozen different people. My mom’s thing is forgetting all her passwords and resetting them after being locked out for entering them wrong. So she has a book for all her different passwords. Which has no indication of which password does which thing. She seems to think they are interchangeable. That took a good three hours.
Then the gas station. They have fried chicken there and I suggested some as a treat, since we were half past fed up. My husband came out complaining that he was literally bumped into by 18 different people, none wearing masks except one construction worker. I said that if that was the case he should have just left, and he said he didn’t want to disappoint me. I said I would rather be disappointed than dead. At least the chicken and the people who made it were behind plexiglas.
Our mayor has said we are not dropping back to phase 1, because what would be the point when people aren’t even following phase 2? He said that without community buy-in, there aren’t enough cops in the world to enforce proper behavior. And that the community seemed to think covid came with an off switch, that when they entered phase 2 everyone just stopped trying.
I just would prefer not to die, please, and no one else seems all that interested in helping me stay alive. Grrrrrrrrr.
I'm sorry you had such a day but that part made me giggle. My wife is 59 and is the same way!4 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's interesting, we're seeing a lot of the same arguments that came up when public places and private businesses all started to ban smoking. People lamented about their personal freedoms and said "If I want to take the risk, then that's my business and my right."
How was it when seat belt use became mandatory in automobiles? Were there contingents running around stamping their feet and complaining that their freedom to splatter themselves on pavement at high velocity was being taken away?
Is anyone old enough to remember? I was pretty young when it became law here so I wouldn't have been aware of any backlash.
I was 30 when the requirement to wear one's seatbelt became law here - 1985.
And yeah, pretty much, that's what happened. It maybe wasn't quite as pugnacious as things are now - different times - but there were complaints, and people saying that it was their lives. It was framed as a civil liberties issue, by opponents. Took a while to get it through the legislature - first attempt around 1982.
Common specific reasons to complain or refuse to wear one's seatbelt, that I recall: Neck chafing (and it's true that earlier seatbelts were less well designed for people of varied sizes); wrinkling of clothes; and the bizarre conviction by some that it was safer to be thrown from your car in a wreck vs. wait for it to burst into flames around you, plus if you accidentally drove into a lake you were more likely to drown if you were belted in.
I knew men who were convinced they could hold on in a crash and not be tossed around the car, so not wearing the belt was OK. (Poor grasp of applied physics, eh? )
Fun fact, and apposite: I looked up the implementation date here before writing this, and read the whole (short) history article. One opposition lawmaker was quoted as saying it was "a pretty good lesson in mass hysteria created by a corporate-controlled media". Sound like anything you've heard more recently? 16 -
It seems that the reason for not wearing a mask is "America was born in rebellion and it's a spirit that still runs deep in its character." So the country is in a perpetual infantile immature stage....
America's mask resistance is just the latest example of a perennial struggle
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/world/meanwhile-in-america-june-23-intl/index.html9 -
SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's interesting, we're seeing a lot of the same arguments that came up when public places and private businesses all started to ban smoking. People lamented about their personal freedoms and said "If I want to take the risk, then that's my business and my right."
How was it when seat belt use became mandatory in automobiles? Were there contingents running around stamping their feet and complaining that their freedom to splatter themselves on pavement at high velocity was being taken away?
Is anyone old enough to remember? I was pretty young when it became law here so I wouldn't have been aware of any backlash.
I'm not old enough to remember that, but have seen that same thing where motorcycle helmets are not required. As soon as someone suggests they should be required, people throw a fit and demand the right to go without a helmet. They also go crazy if someone suggests that if given an option, they should bear responsibility if they are injured - such as that they can choose not to wear a helmet, but waive the right to sue for damages by not wearing a helmet.2 -
Fun fact, and apposite: I looked up the implementation date here before writing this, and read the whole (short) history article. One opposition lawmaker was quoted as saying it was "a pretty good lesson in mass hysteria created by a corporate-controlled media". Sound like anything you've heard more recently?
I see not much has changed Just add the ability for instant communication and rampant social media usage.
Ours became law in 1976 (I looked it up too) and I was 13. I don't remember much of a fuss at all. About the only argument I can recall was being unable to escape a burning vehicle if one's hands were injured and unable to undo a seatbelt. Of course, if you can't undo a seatbelt you're not going to have much luck opening a door either.5 -
Not wearing a helmet or seatbelt endangers the non-wearer. It doesn’t put anyone else at higher risk of injury (although we all pay resulting higher med costs for worse injury through insurance, but that’s a different topic). Not wearing a mask and not distancing directly puts others at risk of getting infected. It’s more similar to the antivaxers who rely on herd immunity while directly endangering those who are vulnerable (too young to vaccinate, cancer patients, etc).16
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's interesting, we're seeing a lot of the same arguments that came up when public places and private businesses all started to ban smoking. People lamented about their personal freedoms and said "If I want to take the risk, then that's my business and my right."
How was it when seat belt use became mandatory in automobiles? Were there contingents running around stamping their feet and complaining that their freedom to splatter themselves on pavement at high velocity was being taken away?
Is anyone old enough to remember? I was pretty young when it became law here so I wouldn't have been aware of any backlash.
Yes, I remember people who complained that their freedom was being taken away by seatbelt laws. And by helmet laws (both motorcycle and bicycle). By the national 50 mph speed limit when that was imposed for a few years. And of course by laws against smoking in restaurants and other buildings.2 -
Not wearing a helmet or seatbelt endangers the non-wearer. It doesn’t put anyone else at higher risk of injury (although we all pay resulting higher med costs for worse injury through insurance, but that’s a different topic). Not wearing a mask and not distancing directly puts others at risk of getting infected. It’s more similar to the antivaxers who rely on herd immunity while directly endangering those who are vulnerable (too young to vaccinate, cancer patients, etc).
Well, if there's someone else in the car with you, you could injure them during an accident if you're not wearing a seatbelt and get hurled into them.10 -
It seems that the reason for not wearing a mask is "America was born in rebellion and it's a spirit that still runs deep in its character." So the country is in a perpetual infantile immature stage....
America's mask resistance is just the latest example of a perennial struggle
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/world/meanwhile-in-america-june-23-intl/index.html
@Gisel2015 thanks for sharing the the term Perennial Struggle. I just now ordered the book by that title from Amazon.
Posts sometimes reflect a perpetual infantile immaturity sounding like a 4 year old kid trying to tell another 4 year old how they should be acting or they will tell on them.
There are the anitvaxers and provaxers, the anitseatbelters and proseatbelters, the antimaskers and promaskers, and anti and pro groups on many subjects. What gets me is the perpetual infantile immaturity of the anti and pro groups that think it is okay to slam the other side as if they are superior to the other group because of their belief system like they are 4 years old kids fighting. On the road where the speed limit is 55 one can hear to ones driving 50 slamming those driving 60 as speeders who in turn refer to those driving 50 as slow pokes causing needless accidents.
I expect the book to be helpful in understanding the minds of both the anti and pro groups.
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I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.4 -
I remember when younger men made a point of fastening the belt, then sitting on it, so it looked fastened if a cop drove by. Just as with masks, more men were like this than women.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's interesting, we're seeing a lot of the same arguments that came up when public places and private businesses all started to ban smoking. People lamented about their personal freedoms and said "If I want to take the risk, then that's my business and my right."
How was it when seat belt use became mandatory in automobiles? Were there contingents running around stamping their feet and complaining that their freedom to splatter themselves on pavement at high velocity was being taken away?
Is anyone old enough to remember? I was pretty young when it became law here so I wouldn't have been aware of any backlash.
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rheddmobile wrote: »
I remember when younger men made a point of fastening the belt, then sitting on it, so it looked fastened if a cop drove by. Just as with masks, more men were like this than women.SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's interesting, we're seeing a lot of the same arguments that came up when public places and private businesses all started to ban smoking. People lamented about their personal freedoms and said "If I want to take the risk, then that's my business and my right."
How was it when seat belt use became mandatory in automobiles? Were there contingents running around stamping their feet and complaining that their freedom to splatter themselves on pavement at high velocity was being taken away?
Is anyone old enough to remember? I was pretty young when it became law here so I wouldn't have been aware of any backlash.
When the seat belt law was passed here, there was a lot of resistance. It was passed long after the USA. In Naples they made t shirts with seatbelts stamped on them to avoid fines.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »It seems that the reason for not wearing a mask is "America was born in rebellion and it's a spirit that still runs deep in its character." So the country is in a perpetual infantile immature stage....
America's mask resistance is just the latest example of a perennial struggle
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/world/meanwhile-in-america-june-23-intl/index.html
@Gisel2015 thanks for sharing the the term Perennial Struggle. I just now ordered the book by that title from Amazon.
Posts sometimes reflect a perpetual infantile immaturity sounding like a 4 year old kid trying to tell another 4 year old how they should be acting or they will tell on them.
There are the anitvaxers and provaxers, the anitseatbelters and proseatbelters, the antimaskers and promaskers, and anti and pro groups on many subjects. What gets me is the perpetual infantile immaturity of the anti and pro groups that think it is okay to slam the other side as if they are superior to the other group because of their belief system like they are 4 years old kids fighting. On the road where the speed limit is 55 one can hear to ones driving 50 slamming those driving 60 as speeders who in turn refer to those driving 50 as slow pokes causing needless accidents.
I expect the book to be helpful in understanding the minds of both the anti and pro groups.
People simply don't like to be told what to do and SO many live in constant denial. It's not real until it affects them personally and then it's too late.
People cannot see past their own face or that one moment in front of them. If they only understood all it takes is 1 handshake, 1 cough, 1 second, etc. Denial is NOT just a teenager's rite of passage, everybody does it to some degree. I think that's why Webster has the word 'hindsight' in there. 
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Many people felt uncomfortable with the seat belt, especially when the over shoulder part came in. Many people refused to wear them in my parents generation. Some people would take the shoulderpart and put it over their shoulders and not latch it so they could go without. I don't think that proves anything much, just the facts about how humans are sometimes.
Death Wishes maybe? maybe that is what makes some people refuse to do the things mandated to keep us alive.2 -
I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
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snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »It seems that the reason for not wearing a mask is "America was born in rebellion and it's a spirit that still runs deep in its character." So the country is in a perpetual infantile immature stage....
America's mask resistance is just the latest example of a perennial struggle
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/world/meanwhile-in-america-june-23-intl/index.html
@Gisel2015 thanks for sharing the the term Perennial Struggle. I just now ordered the book by that title from Amazon.
Posts sometimes reflect a perpetual infantile immaturity sounding like a 4 year old kid trying to tell another 4 year old how they should be acting or they will tell on them.
There are the anitvaxers and provaxers, the anitseatbelters and proseatbelters, the antimaskers and promaskers, and anti and pro groups on many subjects. What gets me is the perpetual infantile immaturity of the anti and pro groups that think it is okay to slam the other side as if they are superior to the other group because of their belief system like they are 4 years old kids fighting. On the road where the speed limit is 55 one can hear to ones driving 50 slamming those driving 60 as speeders who in turn refer to those driving 50 as slow pokes causing needless accidents.
I expect the book to be helpful in understanding the minds of both the anti and pro groups.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous to equate people who are pro-vaccination and people who are anti-vaccination like they're somehow equivalent points of view that have equal support. Statement: people who choose to vaccinate themselves and the children they care for against dangerous illnesses are superior in some specific areas: when it comes to their ability to evaluate evidence, minimize risks, and behave as good citizens.
And I think you can say the same thing about those who are currently following public health guidance to wear masks in public places.
(Obviously, this doesn't apply to people who have legitimate medical reasons they can't vaccinate or wear a mask, they're just another reason why the rest of us should do what we can to help keep them safe).16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »It seems that the reason for not wearing a mask is "America was born in rebellion and it's a spirit that still runs deep in its character." So the country is in a perpetual infantile immature stage....
America's mask resistance is just the latest example of a perennial struggle
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/world/meanwhile-in-america-june-23-intl/index.html
@Gisel2015 thanks for sharing the the term Perennial Struggle. I just now ordered the book by that title from Amazon.
Posts sometimes reflect a perpetual infantile immaturity sounding like a 4 year old kid trying to tell another 4 year old how they should be acting or they will tell on them.
There are the anitvaxers and provaxers, the anitseatbelters and proseatbelters, the antimaskers and promaskers, and anti and pro groups on many subjects. What gets me is the perpetual infantile immaturity of the anti and pro groups that think it is okay to slam the other side as if they are superior to the other group because of their belief system like they are 4 years old kids fighting. On the road where the speed limit is 55 one can hear to ones driving 50 slamming those driving 60 as speeders who in turn refer to those driving 50 as slow pokes causing needless accidents.
I expect the book to be helpful in understanding the minds of both the anti and pro groups.
In all the disputes you mention specifically, the pro- side belief is based on facts and science. I cannot comment on your claim that people feel superior on either side. I do not observe that. What I observe is that some people respect facts and science and find them convincing and are sad to see people endanger themselves and others as a result of rejecting facts and science. Feeling sad (or angry) to see avoidable harm come to fellow humans is not the same as feeling superior.8 -
"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
24 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
*Sigh*
You must be young and have no older relatives.
You must not understand how pandemics (endemics) work. This one we know very little about, so hold your horses there.
You must think your angels can fly pretty daggone fast.18
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