Coronavirus prep
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Many people felt uncomfortable with the seat belt, especially when the over shoulder part came in. Many people refused to wear them in my parents generation. Some people would take the shoulderpart and put it over their shoulders and not latch it so they could go without. I don't think that proves anything much, just the facts about how humans are sometimes.
Death Wishes maybe? maybe that is what makes some people refuse to do the things mandated to keep us alive.
@ElioraFR Death Wishes is kind of a blast from the past. Freud was never my favorite doctor but it is not hard to see how he drew some of his conclusions about the forces that may drive basic low level behavior in humans.
https://verywellmind.com/life-and-death-instincts-2795847?utm_source=emailshare&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mobilesharebutton2
Freud's Theories of Life and Death Instincts
By Kendra Cherry Fact checked by James Lacy on April 04, 20201 -
SummerSkier wrote: »"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
I don't think I'm the only person who is hoping that I never catch it. It sounds like it can be truly terrible and we have no good way to know if we're going to coast through asymptomatically, with a mild case, be knocked for a loop for weeks, or even worse. I'm actively trying to avoid this thing (and am fortunate enough to have a job where I can effectively isolate).16 -
rheddmobile wrote: »So, for background, in my county our floating average of daily cases has more than doubled, hospitalizations have more than doubled, and positivity rate has more than doubled. We are a hot spot in a hot state, getting worse daily.
I did my two weeks shopping and chores for my own household and my mother today. I am so fed up and frustrated with people. We did a pickup at Kroger. As usual they didn’t bother to get half the stuff, so my husband had to go in, where the stuff they were supposedly out of was readily available on shelves. The guy who brought our stuff out wasn’t wearing a mask. Local ordinance says he has to. My husband asked where his mask was, and he said, “Oh, they want us to wear them, but I’m not worried about it. I don’t feel sick and I haven’t been anywhere.”
So my husband had to have a talk with his manager. Who claimed to be appalled. But then he spotted the same manager talking to a stocker with his mask over his chin. Zero masks on customers.
Next, Walgreens. Masks on everyone working there, but chin only. No masks on customers.
Then trying to get an octagenerian to operate zoom. We got my mom hooked up, then realized all the friends she is trying to zoom with are octagenarians too. So had to provide tech support for half a dozen different people. My mom’s thing is forgetting all her passwords and resetting them after being locked out for entering them wrong. So she has a book for all her different passwords. Which has no indication of which password does which thing. She seems to think they are interchangeable. That took a good three hours.
Then the gas station. They have fried chicken there and I suggested some as a treat, since we were half past fed up. My husband came out complaining that he was literally bumped into by 18 different people, none wearing masks except one construction worker. I said that if that was the case he should have just left, and he said he didn’t want to disappoint me. I said I would rather be disappointed than dead. At least the chicken and the people who made it were behind plexiglas.
Our mayor has said we are not dropping back to phase 1, because what would be the point when people aren’t even following phase 2? He said that without community buy-in, there aren’t enough cops in the world to enforce proper behavior. And that the community seemed to think covid came with an off switch, that when they entered phase 2 everyone just stopped trying.
I just would prefer not to die, please, and no one else seems all that interested in helping me stay alive. Grrrrrrrrr.
Feel you!
On all of it.
I'm trying to get my 76-year-old Dad to figure out his first smart phone. I can't even imagine getting more than one non-tech-savy person to figure it out.
He's still fairly sharp, but not about this.
Sorry about the non-compliance. But as you might have seen me mention upthread, most folk in my neck of the woods never started any Phases no matter what the Governor said, down to the county level. They immediately said at the beginning on the local news they weren't enforcing anything even if something was mandated. If I thought it would do one bit of good, I'm rip-snortin'-mad enough to write a letter to the Governor. Tennessee Pledge...ha! Either people don't get, or they don't want to, that if you aren't wearing a mask (and properly) then you are possibly spreading a silent virus, one that gets really loud, rowdy, and deadly for the elderly and unhealthy and sometimes random children and healthy adults. So it really isn't even safe for people to go get food at the grocery store. My hubby wears his mask. He's protecting others. That's nice and all, but nothing is protecting him from bringing it home to Dad from the hoarde who refuse to wear one. Where are the PSAs here? Where is the teeth in guidelines? There will not be any of that. Lee did a press conference yesterday and I had to stop watching. He's still leaving it up to the uncaring to fix everything. They still aren't. Who is going to protect us from their ignorance and thoughtlessness and callous disregard for human life when all they have to do is stand apart and wear some cloth over their mouth and nose for a little while? If I hear one more person say, "It's ok. I'm not sick!" I might actually scream for real.
That. Is. Not. The. Point.
That is not how this works.
7 days (SEVEN DAYS!) after an employee at the Court House tested positive for COVID they finally contacted the local news to let people know. What did the Health Dept say? "Those who were there on such and such string of days monitor for symptoms and then self-quarantine and get tested if you get sick." What on earth! This is the Health Dept! 7 Days of possibly infected folk swarming Walmart and Lowe's and church spreading it around. But they'll all blame rising cases on protests. Which there weren't any in our county, only in the next, and they were small. The culprit can't possibly be violating guidelines en masse during a PANDEMIC...
Save me. :explode:
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I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Exactly--and it's for people like you that really can't wear a mask, that the majority should be. I think that's what's firing up everyone else who is careful, and thinking of people they care about, and wearing that mask even if it's hot and uncomfortable. They see too many people without and it can't mean that they all have medical conditions. You are to be commended for trying to wear it as much as possible. No one thinks everyone can. Thank you for doing your best.12 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
And a vaccine? It's supposed to be ready here this fall. Trials are going well so far. So, I don't agree with you. England tried your approach, and now India and Pakistan don't have the wherewithall to do anything but go with the flow---total disaster. Even Sweden tried it, and their numbers (in a small country) jumped too high. And "everyone catching it" means a high death rate. As you're spreading it to your grandparents, elderly neighbors, and that sickly little kid down the block, and they don't make it---wouldn't you be sorry? Or not?15 -
I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Thank you so much for even trying considering your challenges!
You are so awesome! 12 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Exactly--and it's for people like you that really can't wear a mask, that the majority should be. I think that's what's firing up everyone else who is careful, and thinking of people they care about, and wearing that mask even if it's hot and uncomfortable. They see too many people without and it can't mean that they all have medical conditions. You are to be commended for trying to wear it as much as possible. No one thinks everyone can. Thank you for doing your best.
So well said by both of you.My beef with anti-maskers are the ones who are simply being stubborn, contrary and not giving any thought to other people. Definitely Athijade isn't one of those. My feeling is you're one of the few who think it through and try that hard though; at least of the non-maskers. I do see where lots of people have a mask covering only their mouth and I wonder if it's so they can breathe easier through their nose? A mask, especially, in hot and humid weather, can make you feel like you're suffocating to some degree. And I cannot imagine wearing one for a whole work day as some people are required to.
I made the mistake of stopping at the Salvation Army on my way home from my sister's house this a.m. I was the only person with a mask on out of maybe 8 people there, including a woman coming into the store looking for a job.
Our area has been very lucky with low numbers and nobody at the moment known to be positive but all it takes is that one person to enter our community, not even knowing they're contagious.
My niece lives in Maine and she was relating a story about a hair salon with 2 hairdressers, both ended up testing positive after they'd unknowingly exposed 300 or so customers. But at their work, they required all patrons and employees to wear masks. Not one of those 300+ people caught Covid from those 2 hairdressers. If anyone knows this story please confirm because it's come through 2 people and I'm not 100% sure of it's accuracy. But I still find it very interesting, possibly indicating the success of wearing a mask.6 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
Unfortunately, we don't know that everyone who gets it becomes immune, and we don't know how long immunity might last. They are finding people who barely have mild symptoms who are showing evidence of lung or kidney damage or poor blood oxygenation, and we have no idea if it's temporary or permanent. So counting on everyone getting it and then everything will be fine has no basis in currently known fact.
Also, if you look at the current population of the US and at the death and disability rates of this thing so far, it's quite possible "everyone getting it" will result in over 2 million deaths and millions more permanently disabled and/or buried under medical debt from weeks in ICU and follow up care.
The only way we get out of this without that kind of horrible human tragedy is continuing to flatten the curve as much as possible until there is a vaccine, or at least a government subsidized treatment that anyone with symptoms can be treated with before any damage is done.18 -
janejellyroll wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »"the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it".
There are just so many things wrong with this statement. There is no definitive evidence which suggests you cannot catch it more than once. There is also an huge unknown about LONG term chronic effects of this disease on people.
Yeah sometimes I wonder if everyone is eventually going to catch it also, but I do not think that is the preferred method of overcoming pandemics which kill.
I don't think I'm the only person who is hoping that I never catch it. It sounds like it can be truly terrible and we have no good way to know if we're going to coast through asymptomatically, with a mild case, be knocked for a loop for weeks, or even worse. I'm actively trying to avoid this thing (and am fortunate enough to have a job where I can effectively isolate).
Yep. My goal is to never catch it, and my biggest hope is that no one in my family catches it. The media here in the US does people a great disservice by not specifying what a mild case is and what recovered means. As far as I can tell, "mild" simply means not hospitalized.11 -
"Mild" includes pneumonia.9
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Yeah, it's a fine line between scaring people half to death and not scaring them enough to prevent their death.6
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As my grandpa used to say when the kids were being hardheaded, experience will have to be your teacher.8
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How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends? In the beginning it was easier when everyone was hyper aware and states were closed down. Now that things are opening up so many people just want normal again. I mean, I crave normalcy, but I also recognize it’s too soon.
It seems like we (me and my family) are the only ones in any of our circles to be taking consistent protective measures... his family wants us to come visit (out of state, 6 hour drive), but we don’t want to risk us taking something to them or my husband being quarantined from work during a very busy time due to direct exposure. A couple other friends are very much against masks and think it’s stupid they are required. My oldest is almost 13 and was sulking that he had to wear one when none of the other kids were (my husband explained to him that him wearing a mask shows that he cares about his friends). We’re not spastic about it, just mindful. A friend of mine (and her family... including 3 young CBildren) are traveling for a funeral and their trip brings them right by our house (7.5 hours away). She asked if they could stop by and maybe even spend the night. At first I was excited, but then all the question marks started popping into my mind (because my brain can be quick to forget the world we currently live in since we aren’t out and about much). My gut says I need to regretfully pass, my heart wants to welcome them with open arms. She did tell me that they have been getting together frequently with family and friends without any precautions or social distancing. Maybe we can split the difference and catch up outdoors then them stay in a hotel? I feel guilty about that, but I think she understands.
Dang it, it sucks. And in the midst of everything, why do I feel like the weird one?? I guess because we are so outnumbered.16 -
moonangel12 wrote: »How are you all handling differing opinions and actions amongst family and close friends? In the beginning it was easier when everyone was hyper aware and states were closed down. Now that things are opening up so many people just want normal again. I mean, I crave normalcy, but I also recognize it’s too soon.
It seems like we (me and my family) are the only ones in any of our circles to be taking consistent protective measures... his family wants us to come visit (out of state, 6 hour drive), but we don’t want to risk us taking something to them or my husband being quarantined from work during a very busy time due to direct exposure. A couple other friends are very much against masks and think it’s stupid they are required. My oldest is almost 13 and was sulking that he had to wear one when none of the other kids were (my husband explained to him that him wearing a mask shows that he cares about his friends). We’re not spastic about it, just mindful. A friend of mine (and her family... including 3 young CBildren) are traveling for a funeral and their trip brings them right by our house (7.5 hours away). She asked if they could stop by and maybe even spend the night. At first I was excited, but then all the question marks started popping into my mind (because my brain can be quick to forget the world we currently live in since we aren’t out and about much). My gut says I need to regretfully pass, my heart wants to welcome them with open arms. She did tell me that they have been getting together frequently with family and friends without any precautions or social distancing. Maybe we can split the difference and catch up outdoors then them stay in a hotel? I feel guilty about that, but I think she understands.
Dang it, it sucks. And in the midst of everything, why do I feel like the weird one?? I guess because we are so outnumbered.
It's hard. I told my family I will only come over if we are outdoors. My parents started out being really careful, but the numbers around here have been low and they are starting to lose their patience. I know my brother and SIL are probably letting my little nephews play with other children, so I'm scared that my parents spending time with them are really being exposed to the habits of all sorts of other families. Having said that, I can't imagine how difficult this is for people with children. I know I've now officially been tagged the worrywart of the family.10 -
One of the top health experts said the experts don't even understand it.
'It floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee. The hands can't hit what the eyes can't see.'
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'Rona is Rope-A-Dope.
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »It's interesting, we're seeing a lot of the same arguments that came up when public places and private businesses all started to ban smoking. People lamented about their personal freedoms and said "If I want to take the risk, then that's my business and my right."
How was it when seat belt use became mandatory in automobiles? Were there contingents running around stamping their feet and complaining that their freedom to splatter themselves on pavement at high velocity was being taken away?
Is anyone old enough to remember?
I was pretty young when it became law here so I wouldn't have been aware of any backlash.
I lived in Nebraska at the time...yes, there were plenty of people complaining that their freedoms were being trampled...my parents included.5 -
jseams1234 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »Here, in Italy, some masks are becoming fashion statements. The guy at the coffee bar has a big black mustache on his. In Rome, most are wearing masks and there are no protests as in the States. Some refuse to wear one, but can't enter stores, or other establishments without. I would put forward that fashion is a huge motivator. If famous people started wearing them and were interviewed, I dare say things might change.
I would suggest that most people not wearing masks couldn't give a rat's behind what some "influencer" (man I hate that word) or self-defined fashion expert wearing a mask was saying.
Oh yeh? Don't hang around young folks much, do you?
It's not really the young people here not complying...it's mostly middle age, "you can't take my freedoms" people. It has also stupidly become a big partisan politics thing.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Politics lean waaaaaay to one direction here. I've been out with the wife quite a bit lately, both to the beach in Pacifica and to downtown San Carlos, Redwood City and San Mateo for walks and outdoor dining. What I've anecdotally experienced here is it's almost ALWAYS teens and adults in their 20's running around without masks and we have had new orders since last week mandating them except for very specific situations... and a bustling downtown where consistent social distancing is impossible on most streets isn't one of them. The older people, as in this thread, seem hyper aware of the dangers and are taking things much more seriously than most.
edit: not to mention the young parents in my neighborhood that have been meeting in the grassy commons for the last two months allowing their very young children to play together while they stand around, sans masks, talking to each other.
In NM we're only required to wear masks when going into a store, etc. They aren't required for just being out and about outside. If that was required, there would be massive non-compliance across the spectrum. I don't think most teens and 20s around here are ballsy enough to tell security at the front of the store to *kitten* off and not wear a mask.7 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
That's simply not true, and we have live examples for that. Herd immunity is much harder to achieve than you think and may take several years. If you look at the numbers in Sweden. They don't have the typical disease curve or even close, their numbers look like a semi-linear (recently increasing) up and down every few days wave and this has been going for several months without even a sign of a peak or a trend down.11 -
Washington state where I live has gone to mandatory masks when in public with up to $1000 fine for non-compliance. It goes into effect Friday. I don't know how stringent that fine will be, but with cameras in every location, it's not going to be hard to prove. Still not required if outdoors and able to give six feet distance. Whew. I can still walk in my quiet neighborhood without a mask. I guess I'll have to take one now, just in case.
Just wear the dang masks. Geez. I'm glad there are now $$$ teeth in this though. Up till now it's been, "Please wear them, we trust you to be a good person."
Now? Shut up or pay up. 16 -
cmriverside wrote: »Washington state where I live has gone to mandatory masks when in public with up to $1000 fine for non-compliance. It goes into effect Friday. I don't know how stringent that fine will be, but with cameras in every location, it's not going to be hard to prove. Still not required if outdoors and able to give six feet distance. Whew. I can still walk in my quiet neighborhood without a mask. I guess I'll have to take one now, just in case.
Just wear the dang masks. Geez. I'm glad there are now $$$ teeth in this though. Up till now it's been, "Please wear them, we trust you to be a good person."
Now? Shut up or pay up.
Tucson and Phoenix have done the same, but as we speak there's an "anti-mask" rally going on in Phoenix (Scottsdale). On social media, at least they are getting brutalized. I'm sorry, but that's just not too bright of folks right there.
All I can say is I'm glad I live in semi-bubble community and work from home. People won't comply with masks until they know someone in their family in the ICU being told they might not make it. I wish that it would simply be Darwinism but others are put at risk for the "liberties" of the selfish.9 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
The immunity thing is not well established yet. Here's a link ( http://bitly.ws/8RpF )to a Reuters article that talked about a small study published in Nature Medicine this month, with this lede: "Levels of an antibody found in recovered COVID-19 patients fell sharply in 2-3 months after infection for both symptomatic and asymptomatic patients, according to a Chinese study, raising questions about the length of any immunity against the novel coronavirus." I'm going to get hold of the Nature pub - the Reuters summary quoted another researcher (not involved in the study) noting that the study was small and that the precipitous drop in antibodies after a couple of months did not preclude other immune system processes offering some infection.
But the bottom line is that the science has not yet proven that having had the virus once means one is immune to subsequent covid-19 infection.16 -
I am gonna say it and if I get downvoted to heck then so be it.
I wear a mask the vast VAST majority of time. However, I have PTSD and a trigger is having something over my face/mouth. This is due to 2 different incidents (one medical and one not). 95% of the time I can handle it long enough to get my groceries and leave the store. 5% of the time I can't. However, the times I have had trouble didn't start to manifest until I was IN the store and doing my shopping. I HAD to remove my mask before I went into a full blown attack and started screaming or crying or even falling to the floor in a ball. I had to then find a quiet spot in the store to get my body to stop the "fight or flight" reaction. I then had to finish my shopping without a mask (though I became even more diligent about staying far away from people).
Have you ever seen someone have a panic attack or PTSD episode? It's not pretty.
I guess all I am saying is to not just jump to conclusions if someone isn't wearing a mask at that specific moment in time. Not everyone not wearing one is doing so because "MEH FREEDOM!!". Not everyone not wearing one has a "death wish". Are those people out there? Absolutely and they annoy the heck out of me because they make it harder for everyone else.
Thank you for making that effort, when you can manage. That's the mark of character and kindness.
I appreciate that some do have health conditions that prevent mask wearing, or limit it, and that those conditions go beyond breathing issues, or generally beyond anything that may be visible.
What I'm about to type are generalities, sort of stereotypes, and I know they don't apply universally. They're my observations, no one else's. With that said, I think there are two frequent patterns among people I see being mask non-compliant (not wearing, wearing below nose, etc.).
One is what I'd call the "clueless" pattern. Those people usually have a mask these day, but are either not wearing it or are wearing it wrong. In a grocery store, they're wandering around kind of focused on their own objectives, and not paying attention to others. They often look lost or confused, subjectively speaking (example: couple, man and woman talking then pointing in various directions as if they don't know where something is). The often park their cart in the traffic pattern to check their list or walk off to fetch something. If they see a thing they want, they seem oblivious to anything but that, paying no attention to aisle-direction arrows, whether they're passing close to other people (even bumping or cutting off others on the way). I suspect some of them do have health conditions that contribute to both mask noncompliance and their cognitive fog.
The other is what I'd call the "defiant" pattern. These people rarely have a mask visible, even in cases where they needed one to get in the store. They're aggressive, cutting in between people who are making obvious efforts to maintain 6 feet between each other. If someone moves back from them or shows extra-compliant behavior, sometimes there's a defiant stare or head-to-foot scan. In groups, they may laugh and give each other smirk-y looks when this happens. They sometimes seem almost to make an extra effort to get close to others when picking things off a shelf or the like. Often, there's strutting, striding, aggressive body language overall. Sometimes they complain to people around them (in line, say) about slowness or other side effects of store/staff compliance.
Now, clearly, some noncompliant people do none of those things, and many who do them don't do all of them. Like I said, I'm stereotyping. Those who do none of the above things, but are mask non-compliant, seem the most likely to be people with health issues with masks, speaking subjectively.
While I recognize that those "confused" or "defiant" people, too, could also have breathing-related health conditions or serious problematic psychological ones that limit mask compliance . . . I still feel pretty justified in being irritated with them, especially the "defiant" group. (Sometimes clueless people truly can't help it. I know this. One of my personal character flaws is feeling irritated with them anyway, even in situations beyond this one.)
No, I don't yell at them or try to change their behavior. I just try to stay out of their way.
Again, to the post I used to start off this riff/rant: You would fit neither pattern, because you would be doing all the other stuff, like keeping distance. Bless you: You are doing everything you are personally, humanly are able to do. I hope - I think- I would assume you have a health issue, with that behavior pattern.11 -
@MikePfirrman Experience will have to be their teacher. Then they can go on TV after the fact and tell everyone this is real y'all. This is real. I should've listened. You should listen. By the time the vac is here it may have mutated so many times beyond it. Rope-A-Dope wears you out until there's a Total TKO.
Cases are climbing here due to pesky tourists. Not a mask in sight. The summer heat hasn't done a thing to stop it.7 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
I can't say I'm actually afraid when I say this, and I'm definitely not "living in fear" , just IMO taking some sensible precautions.
I think that if (or when) I get it, there's a decent chance I'll die. I'm over 60, and I have COPD. A simple cold often becomes several weeks of a persistent cough, and sometimes bronchitis or pneumonia.
So, yes, you're right: When I'm dead, I'll stop thinking about the potential for catching it, and will cease all precautionary measures.
Heck, I'll stop thinking about the potential as soon as I test positive . . . but then the precautionary measures become even more vital, to protect other people, y'know?
30 -
AnnPT77 It's not your time to goooo. You shall live, live, live and keep on sharing and declaring your wisdom. 13
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@AnnPT77 - I know your rowing times. I think you're healthier than most 30 year olds. But I do completely understand 100% what you're saying. My wife is immunocompromised (Fibro). There's been a theory that women with Fibro have a T-Cell imbalance that makes it more unlikely they will get seriously ill from Covid-19 and it's being tested right now. Does that make me feel better? Absolutely not.11
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corinasue1143 wrote: »
That's terrible. Truly sobering. Heartbreaking.
Back on @moonangel12's comment re: handling family members, it's hard on families with littles but it's also hard with college age kids who are legal adults and drive themselves around to meet friends. When colleges closed and sent kids home, all 3 of our adult kids locked down with us. I agree it was a lot simpler then with less to do. Two have moved into their apartments for next year, and we are on outside visit status with them. It's hard, especially in the heat. We have a pico-projector and outside screen but no one really seems to have the energy for that. One is still with us until mid-August and it is a continual conversation, as more bad news about our area lands every day. Swirl protests they really care about into the mix. It's hard to know the right thing to do for every single encounter. I have 4 octogenarians in town for whom I'm the first call in an emergency (parents, step-parents), and we do outside visits with them, too. DH and I turned down 2 outside gatherings with friends we really wanted to do just because it didn't seem smart as the date neared (likely to be crowded even though outside).10 -
autumnblade75 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I am also seeing here (in Italy) advertising on TV for products, especially foods, have people wearing masks. Since there is the famous "herd mentality" then the more people that wear them--the more people will wear them. As I've mentioned our numbers keep going down. There are a few clusters, that are quickly isolated, with the majority of cases still in the North.
I am saddened by all your reports from the States. This means that you'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus much longer. I'll be leaving soon for the summer, and will report in in September. I hope to hear that the situation in the States has gotten better.
I disagree with you that we'll have to live with the fear of catching the virus longer if we don't wear masks and practice social distancing. It will all be over quicker once we've all spread the germ as far as possible. Flattening the curve was only supposed to keep us all from getting sick at once and overwhelming the health care system. I suppose it's possible that we could still have spikes that might overwhelm the system, but Even Then, the faster everyone catches it, the sooner we can stop living in fear of catching it.
I can't say I'm actually afraid when I say this, and I'm definitely not "living in fear" , just IMO taking some sensible precautions.
I think that if (or when) I get it, there's a decent chance I'll die. I'm over 60, and I have COPD. A simple cold often becomes several weeks of a persistent cough, and sometimes bronchitis or pneumonia.
So, yes, you're right: When I'm dead, I'll stop thinking about the potential for catching it, and will cease all precautionary measures.
Heck, I'll stop thinking about the potential as soon as I test positive . . . but then the precautionary measures become even more vital, to protect other people, y'know?
I'd like to thank you for acknowledging the bit that I would characterize as "gallows humor" that we definitely stop worrying when we die.
I'm leaning a lot more towards anti-mask these days. Or at least I'm skeptical. Don't get me wrong - I wear them if there's a sign on the door of the establishment I'd like to enter. Over both my mouth and nose, too - and without all the handling of the business portions of the mask that are so common. What I'm not doing is wearing them at work - even though not all my co-workers are any good at distancing. The supervisors, who are required to wear masks, but evidently not required to wear them correctly, tend to move the masks away from their mouths and noses to speak at you from 2 feet away... I am definitely against wearing the stupid things as any "virtue signal" to indicate that I care about keeping others safe. At least until the studies begin to suggest that a mask DOES keep anyone safe - since the existing studies don't support the hypothesis. I'm also not going a lot of places. Of course, that's not a change from "before" anyway.
Let's acknowledge, though - And I think it's great that NZ is containing (or was) the very few cases they had. But that approach is a much slower path to herd immunity than the US. Such as herd immunity may even exist. And that would be my point. The LONGER we hide under our beds and wash all the skin from our hands and live without social contact of any kind, the LONGER WE MUST continue to live that way.
I fully support everyone's intentions to keep others safe. I understand why we're not being *allowed* to perform our own risk assessment. I'm not going to shame anyone for wearing or not wearing a mask. I cannot help my feelings towards the people who wear the masks on their chins or below their noses, or who spend the entire time masked *groping* the dirty part of their mask. I manage to keep my opinions to myself most of the time, and when I simply can't keep it all to myself, so far, venting to my husband has been enough.
His workplace has offered an antibody study, so he's been tested for antibodies. Negative. We were half hoping to have already passed through asymptomatically, like 20-50% of total cases. We joke that now it's time to go lick a Covid patient. Of course EVERYONE would prefer to get through this without contracting the virus. Realistically, it's not going to play out that way. And the older you get before you catch it, the worse your odds of surviving, right?
Again, I know a lot of people are expecting that vaccine, the one without the FDA oversight, to solve everything. Just like the flu vaccine has wiped out the flu, right?
My point? Did I have one? Oh, yeah - still the thing that wearing masks and slowing things down prolongs, rather than causing the timeline to shorten.
I'm not trying to be an *kitten*. (You can feel free to think that I am an *kitten* anyway - it's no skin off my nose.) I'm not trying to catch a disease, or spread one. I'm not in contact with anyone but co-workers, and I'm only going to feel bad if I manage to infect (asymptomatically) one of the few people who are still wearing masks properly, throughout the whole ordeal. I can only honestly think of that ONE guy. He thanked me today, again, for the home-made ones I gave him. The rest of them aren't even trying, anyway. And the workplace has had an infection. It's been weeks, and I haven't heard if he's recovering or dead, yet.
Sorry for the ramble. Anyone who said TLDR probably never got this far, anyway.8
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