Coronavirus prep

The folks at This Week in Virology are REALLY excited about mRNA vaccines. They looked at whatever public data was available for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, and said that while it's still on a small scale, the numbers are far better than they expected. And there is a hint that even if someone who is vaccinated becomes infected, they will be more likely to have a mild case. And if both companies are able to produce the vaccine at the levels they are advertising, that will be impressive as well.

They said that if these numbers turn out to be even close to accurate on a large scale, the "discovery" of mRNA vaccination will be one of the most impressive successes in modern medicine. There is already work being done to see if this technology can be used on other viruses that no effective vaccine has been possible for previously, or improved efficacy over existing vaccines. Basically, the mRNA particles were not discovered while trying to develop a vaccine - they were just being studied in labs as a curious new particle until someone noticed what they did and how they could be used and made the connection. Exciting stuff

Athijade wrote: »

6,255 new cases
48 new deaths
Only 23.5% State wide ICU beds still available
More ICU beds are being used for Covid then non Covid reasons

This is as of Saturday. Data has not been updated yet today.

My aunt posted something on Facebook that made me so upset. It was something about how you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not. How that is more important then skipping to keep others safe. This is the aunt I was supposed to have Thanksgiving with but bowed out because of safety reasons. Well, I guess I know how she really feels about my decision. Hurt to see that. Oh well. I will have my own dang celebration with my own meal and I will enjoy the hell out of it.

I saw and read this article on line today and I thought of you and of many other people (myself and my husband included), having a “different" kind of Thanksgiving celebration this year, and the same for Christmas.

The article also reminded me of another composition that I read many, many years ago in the Readers Digest about the joys of solitude. It was written by a writer, a recent widow, trying to find peace and purpose on her own and after many years of marriage by moving to a less urban town in the East Coast. I was a young woman back then and I couldn't quite understand her reasoning and philosophy, but I do now even when I am still very happily married. I wish I had kept that article or knew how to find it.

Alone for the holidays? Here's how to find joy in the solitude

...It's not going to be easy to turn down an invitation from the people you love this holiday season. It'll probably be just plain sad. But when you're feeling low, Bufka advises, remember why you made that difficult choice in the first place -- to keep those people safe.
And while it may not feel like it, stressful situations like this holiday season (and really, 2020 as a whole) is what humans are built for. We're more resilient than we know, says Moskowitz, who studies how people find positivity during periods of extreme stress.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/us/how-to-spend-holidays-alone-wellness-trnd/index.html

Athijade wrote: »

My aunt posted something on Facebook that made me so upset. It was something about how you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not. How that is more important then skipping to keep others safe. This is the aunt I was supposed to have Thanksgiving with but bowed out because of safety reasons. Well, I guess I know how she really feels about my decision. Hurt to see that. Oh well. I will have my own dang celebration with my own meal and I will enjoy the hell out of it.

I feel for both here... not the part where your aunt is upset about your decision, or saying which is more important, but the arguments behind it. My Grandpa is 85 and his memory and cognitive skills are deteriorating quite rapidly. The whole family (grandpa, his children and grandchildren, their spouses and this year his first great-grandchild who was born in March) gathers every year for Boxing Day. In the past year his memory has deteriorated so much that my husband is the only spouse he remembers because we've been together for so long, and he has no idea who his great-grandchild (my cousin's baby) is. Due to covid, all social visiting has been limited - the family hasn't been together since his 85th birthday in February and my mom has been the only contact point to reduce exposure risks. I haven't seen him since July when my mom was out of town and I stepped in to take care of some weekly routines my mom does. He doesn't really know how to use his cell phone anymore.

In this situation, this might be his last Boxing Day, and very probably is the last Boxing Day when he remembers who we are. If someone in my family decides to skip the Boxing Day celebrations to protect themselves, Grandpa or other family members, I will be upset. But, here's the distinction: It's covid upsetting me, not them. They're just trying to choose right in a world that only has bad choices.

We have our friends down the street, who for the first time in many years (they are 77), they will not see their adult kids. We have taken super precautions and see them every now and then and play board games and such. I have mentioned them before on this forum. They know we are about their only friends that never eat inside, never take risks and always wear KN 95 masks.

Our son (the one that already had Covid-19 in CA) is home for Thanksgiving. They don't feel comfortable eating with us, but we have agreed we'll bring them the entire meal over. I suggested to eat out on our patio if they felt safe, but it might be a bit too chilly. The man was all for it, the wife wanted to eat at home (it's supposed to be low 60s). Their adult kids are just very grateful that they still have someone looking out for them. They, I'm sure, will miss them, but they also know the risk isn't worth it. And our friends are most paranoid about getting Covid-19 and losing their cognitive ability. They are both very mentally sharp. That is their greatest fear. The idea of risking their mental ability for a get together is asinine.

We are worried about our adult daughter spending Thanksgiving alone, but she's coming for a few months for Christmas until January or early February.

I wish you all a virtual hug that are spending this week alone. Zoom did announce they will not charge for calls over 40 minutes. So it's a free Zoom day on Thursday.

hipari wrote: »

In this situation, this might be his last Boxing Day, and very probably is the last Boxing Day when he remembers who we are. If someone in my family decides to skip the Boxing Day celebrations to protect themselves, Grandpa or other family members, I will be upset. But, here's the distinction: It's covid upsetting me, not them. They're just trying to choose right in a world that only has bad choices.

I am so so sorry about your Grandpa. Watching them deteriorate like that is so hard and 2020 has just made it harder.

I know WHY my aunt is upset. Her youngest daughter won't be there with her family because she is late into her pregnancy so they are strict with quarantine. My grandmother (my aunt's mom) passed away earlier this year so this will be the first Thanksgiving without her. 2020 has just been a huge stressor for everyone and I think this sort of cracked her normally tough exterior. I don't think she posted that as a slight to me. I think she allowed her emotions to get the best of her. I won't hold it against her. I don't have much family left myself. Both my parents are gone and all my grandparents. Which is why my decision not to go was so hard on me.

I am most likely the one who has the lowest risk of catching it elsewhere and spreading it too. My other cousin and my aunt work with the public. The kids are... well, kids and while they don't hang out in big groups, they do see other people decently often. Me? I am working from home, go to the grocery once a week, and have one friend I see every so often that has had Covid and I know takes a lot of precautions. So yea. My biggest risk is the grocery shopping and, like I said before, I go to less busy stores at less busy times.

What upsets me the most though is that this shouldn't BE a problem. If people had actually done what they needed to do, worn masks, not gone to bars, and stuff like that I might not have had to make this decision and I could be spending the day with my family. But no. The selfishness of others has caused this. The inability to think about others or about anything beyond the here and now has caused this. THOSE are the people I am the most upset with.

kushiel1 wrote: »

jenilla1 wrote: »

...you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not...

I don't want to be the REASON this may be someone's last Thanksgiving. That's the whole point of NOT going!

My spouse is an essential worker coming into daily contact with the public at a job where multiple people are out on "COVID leave" right now, at least one of them is dead, and another hasn't been heard from in months (since he was hospitalized) so who knows what happened to him. The bosses aren't saying anything. In the midst of all this chaos, a close proximity co-worker decided to go to a big family birthday party recently (because everyone pressured him about seeing Grandpa before it's too late) and co-worker came down with the virus shortly after. Grandpa is still OK, but Uncle who attended is now in the hospital and co-worker's sister is not doing well either. So it may be Uncle's last Thanksgiving, all because they had to have this party. Doesn't make any sense to me. Gotta have these get-togethers "just in case" the old people don't make it to next year, but you end up causing their premature deaths? If you just HAVE to see Grandpa, it might have been better to individually or small group visit Grandpa in a more socially distant way than to throw a big feast with 70+ maskless people in attendance. I think people just wanted to party, to feel the festivity they've been missing, and Grandpa's birthday was the excuse they needed. Apparently, they made themselves feel better by ensuring that Grandpa had a mask on. But he was the only one.

My husband and I have avoided elderly and high-risk people since the beginning. We aren't going to stop until this mess is under control. Missing out on a single year of holiday parties is not a big ask for me. Keeping my people safe is the priority. It's a bad situation, and some tough decisions have to be made. I just hope people aren't making them lightly.

I think one of the worst things about this pandemic is the fact that SO MANY people are judgmental. And of course it's only acceptable to be judgmental on one perspective and that side doesn't even try to look at it from another point of view.

I have a sister who has a highly aggressive cancer. While I pray daily that she can fight and beat this cancer, I'm also rational enough to know that it's not likely. So yes...I am going to see her for Thanksgiving. People can say they don't want to be the reason for causing it to be the last holiday season for someone (and if that's your choice that's fine) but don't seem to want to understand the other side - that we don't want to give up what is likely her last one. Just because you make one set of choices does not make the other person who made different choices wrong or a terrible person. It makes them human.

Cause let me tell you - if she dies before next Christmas my thoughts on it will NOT be "man I'm glad I didn't give her covid".

We do take precautions, had a kid exposed but no symptoms, had another kid who had cold symptoms - both tested and no Covid. and the exposure kid is well out of her 14 days. But I'm not giving it up...and I really dislike those who look down on people like me.

Nothing is black or white--it's shades of grey. Each person has to evaluate their situation and make the best decision for them. You've done that. Best wishes for your sister. The visit should make her happy.

kushiel1 wrote: »

jenilla1 wrote: »

...you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not...

I don't want to be the REASON this may be someone's last Thanksgiving. That's the whole point of NOT going!

My spouse is an essential worker coming into daily contact with the public at a job where multiple people are out on "COVID leave" right now, at least one of them is dead, and another hasn't been heard from in months (since he was hospitalized) so who knows what happened to him. The bosses aren't saying anything. In the midst of all this chaos, a close proximity co-worker decided to go to a big family birthday party recently (because everyone pressured him about seeing Grandpa before it's too late) and co-worker came down with the virus shortly after. Grandpa is still OK, but Uncle who attended is now in the hospital and co-worker's sister is not doing well either. So it may be Uncle's last Thanksgiving, all because they had to have this party. Doesn't make any sense to me. Gotta have these get-togethers "just in case" the old people don't make it to next year, but you end up causing their premature deaths? If you just HAVE to see Grandpa, it might have been better to individually or small group visit Grandpa in a more socially distant way than to throw a big feast with 70+ maskless people in attendance. I think people just wanted to party, to feel the festivity they've been missing, and Grandpa's birthday was the excuse they needed. Apparently, they made themselves feel better by ensuring that Grandpa had a mask on. But he was the only one.

My husband and I have avoided elderly and high-risk people since the beginning. We aren't going to stop until this mess is under control. Missing out on a single year of holiday parties is not a big ask for me. Keeping my people safe is the priority. It's a bad situation, and some tough decisions have to be made. I just hope people aren't making them lightly.

I think one of the worst things about this pandemic is the fact that SO MANY people are judgmental. And of course it's only acceptable to be judgmental on one perspective and that side doesn't even try to look at it from another point of view.

I have a sister who has a highly aggressive cancer. While I pray daily that she can fight and beat this cancer, I'm also rational enough to know that it's not likely. So yes...I am going to see her for Thanksgiving. People can say they don't want to be the reason for causing it to be the last holiday season for someone (and if that's your choice that's fine) but don't seem to want to understand the other side - that we don't want to give up what is likely her last one. Just because you make one set of choices does not make the other person who made different choices wrong or a terrible person. It makes them human.

Cause let me tell you - if she dies before next Christmas my thoughts on it will NOT be "man I'm glad I didn't give her covid".

We do take precautions, had a kid exposed but no symptoms, had another kid who had cold symptoms - both tested and no Covid. and the exposure kid is well out of her 14 days. But I'm not giving it up...and I really dislike those who look down on people like me.

I agree with you. Being judged is exhausting, especially since our home is making effort to do right by our current situation and keep ourselves and others safe.

I am still irked by my neighbor. A few days ago, I was outside walking my cats on their leashes that extend "8 meters" (you do the math). I was in my yard, with no mask, but obviously open air. My neighbor pulls in their driveway and one cat walked near their car and was at the full extension of the leash so therefore I know my approximate distance well. The neighbor takes one look at me 8+ meters away, and proceeds to put on a mask to walk the 10 feet to the door of their house. I know it was a comment on me, yet I was not doing ANYTHING unsafe. Two weeks ago this same neighbor was fine with no mask talking outside with a 10 ft spread. But now the Governor has said that if you are in public space outside then masks are required at all times, so now logical reasoning cannot be applied (BTW your own yard is not "public space" so technically I was following the governor's rules) and it is wearing me out.

The last few weeks have really brought home the theme of “memento mori”. A cousin in his 50s diagnosed with stage 2 pancreatic cancer. A friend in her 40s in her final days of at home hospice. A triathlete, healthy eating fanatic friend in his 30s having a massive stroke. Another friend in her early 40s bedridden with a flare of terrible pain from a still undiagnosed chronic condition that hit her out of nowhere a few Thanksgivings ago and changed her life completely. My aunt in her 60s having a massive Covid-induces stroke.

So I understand wanting to keep our loved ones safe, but I also understand the desire to see the ones we love because while the refrain is “give up this year’s vacation/birthday/Halloween/Thanksgiving/ Christmas so you can celebrate safely together next year”, we’re not promised that celebration next year, no matter how safe and healthy we try to be. And time is ticking on how many of these occasions we have left with our children in the house, our parents alive, etc. It’s hard to weigh each of those concerns, which are both legitimate.

We won’t be seeing my parents for either holiday, both of whom are terribly anxious about contracting Covid. And I hope they will be here for next year’s celebrations.

I too am exhausted and realize I will never please everyone. I’ll always be in the wrong, depending on who I talk to. “You’re reckless and unsafe!” bc I go to church (masked), my kids play sports, and we have a few other families we socialize with. “You’re letting fear rule your life, you sheeple!” bc I wear a mask in public, haven’t gone back to the gym, refuse to join people for large indoor gatherings of unmasked people, have declined party invitations, and keep people outdoors when I do have them at my house. It’s a risk mitigation/balancing game of keeping our mental and physical health in mind and I’m tired.

It’s been a heavy few weeks. Wishing everyone the best as they navigate this holiday season.

I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.

I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.

kushiel1 wrote: »

I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.

I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.

That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.

Personally, I'm feeling like grace cuts both ways. Everyone's under a lot of stress, and more likely to act out. I'm working really hard to remember that when people lash out in ways that raise my emotional temperature, so that I don't add fuel. (In my case, I've seen more of the "sheeple", "living your life in fear", "not helping businesses" sort of lash-out, because as a comfortably introverted, retired, live-alone person, I'm cocooning more than some do or even can.)

Unlike you, I think it's helpful that there are numerical guidelines, but I don't expect people to slavishly stick to them. Of course it's not *really* "9 OK, 11 dangerous". What I do think an actual number does, that a more open-ended "limit gatherings" or "no big parties" or somesuch doesn't, is trigger some people to think a little harder, and not just go with "well, it's just our regular 14 or 15 people, not a big party", but maybe go beyond that to think "well, maybe we could cut that down a bit without major sacrifice, and suggest that Aunt Sally and her boyfriend from across the state not come this time" and that sort of thing.

You have circumstances that are unusual, in that you have have a family member who is truly very likely not to be here to celebrate with you next year: I'm so sorry that's true for you. Probably numerically more people are in opposite circumstances, where they have elders or others that maybe/possibly might not be here next year based on pure statistics (could be true for any of us, realistically), but that are in demographics whose Covid mortality risk is significantly above broad-population averages. Add in the (true) idea that one family's tilt in the direction of accepting more Covid risk - even when done for very valid reasons - creates a small bit more risk for their other social connections and community . . . well, tempers will flare, in what are already stressful circumstances.

I'm sorry that your family is going through this extra stress, in an already stressful time. Wishing you the best possible outcomes, in all ways.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

kushiel1 wrote: »

I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.

I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.

That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.

Personally, I'm feeling like grace cuts both ways. Everyone's under a lot of stress, and more likely to act out. I'm working really hard to remember that when people lash out in ways that raise my emotional temperature, so that I don't add fuel. (In my case, I've seen more of the "sheeple", "living your life in fear", "not helping businesses" sort of lash-out, because as a comfortably introverted, retired, live-alone person, I'm cocooning more than some do or even can.)

Unlike you, I think it's helpful that there are numerical guidelines, but I don't expect people to slavishly stick to them. Of course it's not *really* "9 OK, 11 dangerous". What I do think an actual number does, that a more open-ended "limit gatherings" or "no big parties" or somesuch doesn't, is trigger some people to think a little harder, and not just go with "well, it's just our regular 14 or 15 people, not a big party", but maybe go beyond that to think "well, maybe we could cut that down a bit without major sacrifice, and suggest that Aunt Sally and her boyfriend from across the state not

come this time" and that sort of thing.

You have circumstances that are unusual, in that you have have a family member who is truly very likely not to be here to celebrate with you next year: I'm so sorry that's true for you. Probably numerically more people are in opposite circumstances, where they have elders or others that maybe/possibly might not be here next year based on pure statistics (could be true for any of us, realistically), but that are in demographics whose Covid mortality risk is significantly above broad-population averages. Add in the (true) idea that one family's tilt in the direction of accepting more Covid risk - even when done for very valid reasons - creates a small bit more risk for their other social connections and community . . . well, tempers will flare, in what are already stressful circumstances.

I'm sorry that your family is going through this extra stress, in an already stressful time. Wishing you the best possible outcomes, in all ways.

I view the numerical guidelines as a way for people who don’t want to make others feel bad/offend them/whatever to use an an excuse/ “blame The authority” when declining an invitation or deciding not to host an event. Much like we give teenagers the “out” to blame their parents for their overprotective lame rules in order to save face and exit a potentially dangerous or uncomfortable situation.

So we can say, “oh, we aren’t hosting our annual XYZ party bc we can’t have more than 10 people”, without making it about us/our feelings/decisions. Or we can decline invitations and say, “the county is saying only 10 people, so we don’t want to put you over the limit, we’ll catch you next time”.

We’re a family if 6 and the smallest family we know is 5, so the usual # limits pretty much rule out all gatherings 😆