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Coronavirus prep
Replies
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...you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not...
I don't want to be the REASON this may be someone's last Thanksgiving. That's the whole point of NOT going!
My spouse is an essential worker coming into daily contact with the public at a job where multiple people are out on "COVID leave" right now, at least one of them is dead, and another hasn't been heard from in months (since he was hospitalized) so who knows what happened to him. The bosses aren't saying anything. In the midst of all this chaos, a close proximity co-worker decided to go to a big family birthday party recently (because everyone pressured him about seeing Grandpa before it's too late) and co-worker came down with the virus shortly after. Grandpa is still OK, but Uncle who attended is now in the hospital and co-worker's sister is not doing well either. So it may be Uncle's last Thanksgiving, all because they had to have this party. Doesn't make any sense to me. Gotta have these get-togethers "just in case" the old people don't make it to next year, but you end up causing their premature deaths? If you just HAVE to see Grandpa, it might have been better to individually or small group visit Grandpa in a more socially distant way than to throw a big feast with 70+ maskless people in attendance. I think people just wanted to party, to feel the festivity they've been missing, and Grandpa's birthday was the excuse they needed. Apparently, they made themselves feel better by ensuring that Grandpa had a mask on. But he was the only one.
My husband and I have avoided elderly and high-risk people since the beginning. We aren't going to stop until this mess is under control. Missing out on a single year of holiday parties is not a big ask for me. Keeping my people safe is the priority. It's a bad situation, and some tough decisions have to be made. I just hope people aren't making them lightly.
I think one of the worst things about this pandemic is the fact that SO MANY people are judgmental. And of course it's only acceptable to be judgmental on one perspective and that side doesn't even try to look at it from another point of view.
I have a sister who has a highly aggressive cancer. While I pray daily that she can fight and beat this cancer, I'm also rational enough to know that it's not likely. So yes...I am going to see her for Thanksgiving. People can say they don't want to be the reason for causing it to be the last holiday season for someone (and if that's your choice that's fine) but don't seem to want to understand the other side - that we don't want to give up what is likely her last one. Just because you make one set of choices does not make the other person who made different choices wrong or a terrible person. It makes them human.
Cause let me tell you - if she dies before next Christmas my thoughts on it will NOT be "man I'm glad I didn't give her covid".
We do take precautions, had a kid exposed but no symptoms, had another kid who had cold symptoms - both tested and no Covid. and the exposure kid is well out of her 14 days. But I'm not giving it up...and I really dislike those who look down on people like me.
Hmmm... my post wasn't about your situation. At all.
Unless you are planning on hosting a blow out bash for 73 people, including multiple at risk attendees, and complete with caterers and a DJ (like the party I described in my previous post). If you ARE doing that, then I AM judging. No apologies.
Nobody's saying you shouldn't spend Christmas with your sister. Especially considering her circumstances. A smaller group celebration with proper precautions should be fine. It sounds like you're doing that.
I'm sorry you're feeling judged and think people are looking down on you. And I'm sorry you feel dislike for others because of it. It's a stressful time and misunderstandings happen.
Hopefully you will have a safe and happy celebration with your sister this Christmas, and the next as well.15 -
...you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not...
I don't want to be the REASON this may be someone's last Thanksgiving. That's the whole point of NOT going!
My spouse is an essential worker coming into daily contact with the public at a job where multiple people are out on "COVID leave" right now, at least one of them is dead, and another hasn't been heard from in months (since he was hospitalized) so who knows what happened to him. The bosses aren't saying anything. In the midst of all this chaos, a close proximity co-worker decided to go to a big family birthday party recently (because everyone pressured him about seeing Grandpa before it's too late) and co-worker came down with the virus shortly after. Grandpa is still OK, but Uncle who attended is now in the hospital and co-worker's sister is not doing well either. So it may be Uncle's last Thanksgiving, all because they had to have this party. Doesn't make any sense to me. Gotta have these get-togethers "just in case" the old people don't make it to next year, but you end up causing their premature deaths? If you just HAVE to see Grandpa, it might have been better to individually or small group visit Grandpa in a more socially distant way than to throw a big feast with 70+ maskless people in attendance. I think people just wanted to party, to feel the festivity they've been missing, and Grandpa's birthday was the excuse they needed. Apparently, they made themselves feel better by ensuring that Grandpa had a mask on. But he was the only one.
My husband and I have avoided elderly and high-risk people since the beginning. We aren't going to stop until this mess is under control. Missing out on a single year of holiday parties is not a big ask for me. Keeping my people safe is the priority. It's a bad situation, and some tough decisions have to be made. I just hope people aren't making them lightly.
I think one of the worst things about this pandemic is the fact that SO MANY people are judgmental. And of course it's only acceptable to be judgmental on one perspective and that side doesn't even try to look at it from another point of view.
I have a sister who has a highly aggressive cancer. While I pray daily that she can fight and beat this cancer, I'm also rational enough to know that it's not likely. So yes...I am going to see her for Thanksgiving. People can say they don't want to be the reason for causing it to be the last holiday season for someone (and if that's your choice that's fine) but don't seem to want to understand the other side - that we don't want to give up what is likely her last one. Just because you make one set of choices does not make the other person who made different choices wrong or a terrible person. It makes them human.
Cause let me tell you - if she dies before next Christmas my thoughts on it will NOT be "man I'm glad I didn't give her covid".
We do take precautions, had a kid exposed but no symptoms, had another kid who had cold symptoms - both tested and no Covid. and the exposure kid is well out of her 14 days. But I'm not giving it up...and I really dislike those who look down on people like me.
I agree with you. Being judged is exhausting, especially since our home is making effort to do right by our current situation and keep ourselves and others safe.
I am still irked by my neighbor. A few days ago, I was outside walking my cats on their leashes that extend "8 meters" (you do the math). I was in my yard, with no mask, but obviously open air. My neighbor pulls in their driveway and one cat walked near their car and was at the full extension of the leash so therefore I know my approximate distance well. The neighbor takes one look at me 8+ meters away, and proceeds to put on a mask to walk the 10 feet to the door of their house. I know it was a comment on me, yet I was not doing ANYTHING unsafe. Two weeks ago this same neighbor was fine with no mask talking outside with a 10 ft spread. But now the Governor has said that if you are in public space outside then masks are required at all times, so now logical reasoning cannot be applied (BTW your own yard is not "public space" so technically I was following the governor's rules) and it is wearing me out.9 -
There’s too much divisiveness. It’s nice to see posts clarifying and explaining. I’m thankful for the internet. Can you imagine how much more stressful 2020 would have been without being able to connect with others this easily?
There was a song Jewel sang years ago. I often think about her words. “In the end, only kindness matters”.
Hoping for a safe, happy, and love filled Thanksgiving for all❤️ Here’s hoping for a better 2021🍷17 -
missysippy930 wrote: »There’s too much divisiveness. It’s nice to see posts clarifying and explaining. I’m thankful for the internet. Can you imagine how much more stressful 2020 would have been without being able to connect with others this easily?
There was a song Jewel sang years ago. I often think about her words. “In the end, only kindness matters”.
Hoping for a safe, happy, and love filled Thanksgiving for all❤️ Here’s hoping for a better 2021🍷
All true0 -
on another note,
https://nypost.com/2020/11/23/cuomo-floats-hosting-his-mom-for-thanksgiving-setting-off-an-uproar/
more recent articles imply he is now retracting his plans for his mother0 -
The last few weeks have really brought home the theme of “memento mori”. A cousin in his 50s diagnosed with stage 2 pancreatic cancer. A friend in her 40s in her final days of at home hospice. A triathlete, healthy eating fanatic friend in his 30s having a massive stroke. Another friend in her early 40s bedridden with a flare of terrible pain from a still undiagnosed chronic condition that hit her out of nowhere a few Thanksgivings ago and changed her life completely. My aunt in her 60s having a massive Covid-induces stroke.
So I understand wanting to keep our loved ones safe, but I also understand the desire to see the ones we love because while the refrain is “give up this year’s vacation/birthday/Halloween/Thanksgiving/ Christmas so you can celebrate safely together next year”, we’re not promised that celebration next year, no matter how safe and healthy we try to be. And time is ticking on how many of these occasions we have left with our children in the house, our parents alive, etc. It’s hard to weigh each of those concerns, which are both legitimate.
We won’t be seeing my parents for either holiday, both of whom are terribly anxious about contracting Covid. And I hope they will be here for next year’s celebrations.
I too am exhausted and realize I will never please everyone. I’ll always be in the wrong, depending on who I talk to. “You’re reckless and unsafe!” bc I go to church (masked), my kids play sports, and we have a few other families we socialize with. “You’re letting fear rule your life, you sheeple!” bc I wear a mask in public, haven’t gone back to the gym, refuse to join people for large indoor gatherings of unmasked people, have declined party invitations, and keep people outdoors when I do have them at my house. It’s a risk mitigation/balancing game of keeping our mental and physical health in mind and I’m tired.
It’s been a heavy few weeks. Wishing everyone the best as they navigate this holiday season.26 -
...you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not...
I don't want to be the REASON this may be someone's last Thanksgiving. That's the whole point of NOT going!
My spouse is an essential worker coming into daily contact with the public at a job where multiple people are out on "COVID leave" right now, at least one of them is dead, and another hasn't been heard from in months (since he was hospitalized) so who knows what happened to him. The bosses aren't saying anything. In the midst of all this chaos, a close proximity co-worker decided to go to a big family birthday party recently (because everyone pressured him about seeing Grandpa before it's too late) and co-worker came down with the virus shortly after. Grandpa is still OK, but Uncle who attended is now in the hospital and co-worker's sister is not doing well either. So it may be Uncle's last Thanksgiving, all because they had to have this party. Doesn't make any sense to me. Gotta have these get-togethers "just in case" the old people don't make it to next year, but you end up causing their premature deaths? If you just HAVE to see Grandpa, it might have been better to individually or small group visit Grandpa in a more socially distant way than to throw a big feast with 70+ maskless people in attendance. I think people just wanted to party, to feel the festivity they've been missing, and Grandpa's birthday was the excuse they needed. Apparently, they made themselves feel better by ensuring that Grandpa had a mask on. But he was the only one.
My husband and I have avoided elderly and high-risk people since the beginning. We aren't going to stop until this mess is under control. Missing out on a single year of holiday parties is not a big ask for me. Keeping my people safe is the priority. It's a bad situation, and some tough decisions have to be made. I just hope people aren't making them lightly.
I think one of the worst things about this pandemic is the fact that SO MANY people are judgmental. And of course it's only acceptable to be judgmental on one perspective and that side doesn't even try to look at it from another point of view.
I have a sister who has a highly aggressive cancer. While I pray daily that she can fight and beat this cancer, I'm also rational enough to know that it's not likely. So yes...I am going to see her for Thanksgiving. People can say they don't want to be the reason for causing it to be the last holiday season for someone (and if that's your choice that's fine) but don't seem to want to understand the other side - that we don't want to give up what is likely her last one. Just because you make one set of choices does not make the other person who made different choices wrong or a terrible person. It makes them human.
Cause let me tell you - if she dies before next Christmas my thoughts on it will NOT be "man I'm glad I didn't give her covid".
We do take precautions, had a kid exposed but no symptoms, had another kid who had cold symptoms - both tested and no Covid. and the exposure kid is well out of her 14 days. But I'm not giving it up...and I really dislike those who look down on people like me.
I think there is a massive difference between getting together with your sister and hosting a massive gathering of people. If people are holding mass gatherings of people, then yes...I judge...because I think it's grossly irresponsible right now. Getting together with a few of your close family members is, IMO, up to one's own personal risk assessment, and is completely different than throwing a massive party.
Typically in hosting Thanksgiving, I would have 15 to 20 people, many of whom will have travelled from various places in the US or even abroad...I think that would be grossly irresponsible right now. I'm still hosting Thanksgiving, but it will be my mom and her boyfriend and my sister and her husband, all of whom we've been seeing regularly since the start of this whole thing...but I'm not inviting my BIL and SIL and nieces and nephews from the East Coast out along with my MIL and FIL from Arizona along with cousins and other family from the UK who want to winter holiday in the Southwest like I typically would.
We were initially going to go to AZ for Thanksgiving and my in-laws were going to come from AZ to see us for Christmas...we ultimately decided that the most cautious thing to do was to do one or the other but not both. We cancelled our trip to AZ for Thanksgiving because Christmas is a more important holiday for my wife's mom and dad than Thanksgiving, given they are from the UK...to boot, they are having friends from New Hampshire out for Thanksgiving as well as snowbird neighbors who are just arriving for the winter from New York this week. We don't know them from Adam...as much as we would like to see my wife's parents, there was absolutely no reason to risk exposure to hang out with people we don't even know. To that end, Christmas with them at our home is still tentative.13 -
I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.7 -
at this point I have backed way off "judging" anyone and their decisions. I hear them. I listen. I am going to hunker down myself until the vaccines are wide spread. That is a personal decision we all have to make for ourselves. I feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel and one day in the not too distant future (next year!) this thread will become a ghost thread.
I do however speak up when I have to (like in the grocery when the person behind be at checkout boxes me in and has their mask under their nose). But I do not look for folks to correct if I can avoid them.
Best of luck to all and massive sympathy to those ill or losing loved ones...17 -
I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
Personally, I'm feeling like grace cuts both ways. Everyone's under a lot of stress, and more likely to act out. I'm working really hard to remember that when people lash out in ways that raise my emotional temperature, so that I don't add fuel. (In my case, I've seen more of the "sheeple", "living your life in fear", "not helping businesses" sort of lash-out, because as a comfortably introverted, retired, live-alone person, I'm cocooning more than some do or even can.)
Unlike you, I think it's helpful that there are numerical guidelines, but I don't expect people to slavishly stick to them. Of course it's not *really* "9 OK, 11 dangerous". What I do think an actual number does, that a more open-ended "limit gatherings" or "no big parties" or somesuch doesn't, is trigger some people to think a little harder, and not just go with "well, it's just our regular 14 or 15 people, not a big party", but maybe go beyond that to think "well, maybe we could cut that down a bit without major sacrifice, and suggest that Aunt Sally and her boyfriend from across the state notcome this time" and that sort of thing.
You have circumstances that are unusual, in that you have have a family member who is truly very likely not to be here to celebrate with you next year: I'm so sorry that's true for you. Probably numerically more people are in opposite circumstances, where they have elders or others that maybe/possibly might not be here next year based on pure statistics (could be true for any of us, realistically), but that are in demographics whose Covid mortality risk is significantly above broad-population averages. Add in the (true) idea that one family's tilt in the direction of accepting more Covid risk - even when done for very valid reasons - creates a small bit more risk for their other social connections and community . . . well, tempers will flare, in what are already stressful circumstances.
I'm sorry that your family is going through this extra stress, in an already stressful time. Wishing you the best possible outcomes, in all ways.17 -
I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
Three weeks ago, my husbands best friend from the age of 7 (we are all 59 now) hung up the phone on my husband and will not answer or return any of his calls........
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I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
Personally, I'm feeling like grace cuts both ways. Everyone's under a lot of stress, and more likely to act out. I'm working really hard to remember that when people lash out in ways that raise my emotional temperature, so that I don't add fuel. (In my case, I've seen more of the "sheeple", "living your life in fear", "not helping businesses" sort of lash-out, because as a comfortably introverted, retired, live-alone person, I'm cocooning more than some do or even can.)
Unlike you, I think it's helpful that there are numerical guidelines, but I don't expect people to slavishly stick to them. Of course it's not *really* "9 OK, 11 dangerous". What I do think an actual number does, that a more open-ended "limit gatherings" or "no big parties" or somesuch doesn't, is trigger some people to think a little harder, and not just go with "well, it's just our regular 14 or 15 people, not a big party", but maybe go beyond that to think "well, maybe we could cut that down a bit without major sacrifice, and suggest that Aunt Sally and her boyfriend from across the state notcome this time" and that sort of thing.
You have circumstances that are unusual, in that you have have a family member who is truly very likely not to be here to celebrate with you next year: I'm so sorry that's true for you. Probably numerically more people are in opposite circumstances, where they have elders or others that maybe/possibly might not be here next year based on pure statistics (could be true for any of us, realistically), but that are in demographics whose Covid mortality risk is significantly above broad-population averages. Add in the (true) idea that one family's tilt in the direction of accepting more Covid risk - even when done for very valid reasons - creates a small bit more risk for their other social connections and community . . . well, tempers will flare, in what are already stressful circumstances.
I'm sorry that your family is going through this extra stress, in an already stressful time. Wishing you the best possible outcomes, in all ways.
I view the numerical guidelines as a way for people who don’t want to make others feel bad/offend them/whatever to use an an excuse/ “blame The authority” when declining an invitation or deciding not to host an event. Much like we give teenagers the “out” to blame their parents for their overprotective lame rules in order to save face and exit a potentially dangerous or uncomfortable situation.
So we can say, “oh, we aren’t hosting our annual XYZ party bc we can’t have more than 10 people”, without making it about us/our feelings/decisions. Or we can decline invitations and say, “the county is saying only 10 people, so we don’t want to put you over the limit, we’ll catch you next time”.
We’re a family if 6 and the smallest family we know is 5, so the usual # limits pretty much rule out all gatherings 😆10 -
gradchica27 wrote: »I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
Personally, I'm feeling like grace cuts both ways. Everyone's under a lot of stress, and more likely to act out. I'm working really hard to remember that when people lash out in ways that raise my emotional temperature, so that I don't add fuel. (In my case, I've seen more of the "sheeple", "living your life in fear", "not helping businesses" sort of lash-out, because as a comfortably introverted, retired, live-alone person, I'm cocooning more than some do or even can.)
Unlike you, I think it's helpful that there are numerical guidelines, but I don't expect people to slavishly stick to them. Of course it's not *really* "9 OK, 11 dangerous". What I do think an actual number does, that a more open-ended "limit gatherings" or "no big parties" or somesuch doesn't, is trigger some people to think a little harder, and not just go with "well, it's just our regular 14 or 15 people, not a big party", but maybe go beyond that to think "well, maybe we could cut that down a bit without major sacrifice, and suggest that Aunt Sally and her boyfriend from across the state notcome this time" and that sort of thing.
You have circumstances that are unusual, in that you have have a family member who is truly very likely not to be here to celebrate with you next year: I'm so sorry that's true for you. Probably numerically more people are in opposite circumstances, where they have elders or others that maybe/possibly might not be here next year based on pure statistics (could be true for any of us, realistically), but that are in demographics whose Covid mortality risk is significantly above broad-population averages. Add in the (true) idea that one family's tilt in the direction of accepting more Covid risk - even when done for very valid reasons - creates a small bit more risk for their other social connections and community . . . well, tempers will flare, in what are already stressful circumstances.
I'm sorry that your family is going through this extra stress, in an already stressful time. Wishing you the best possible outcomes, in all ways.
I view the numerical guidelines as a way for people who don’t want to make others feel bad/offend them/whatever to use an an excuse/ “blame The authority” when declining an invitation or deciding not to host an event. Much like we give teenagers the “out” to blame their parents for their overprotective lame rules in order to save face and exit a potentially dangerous or uncomfortable situation.
So we can say, “oh, we aren’t hosting our annual XYZ party bc we can’t have more than 10 people”, without making it about us/our feelings/decisions. Or we can decline invitations and say, “the county is saying only 10 people, so we don’t want to put you over the limit, we’ll catch you next time”.
We’re a family if 6 and the smallest family we know is 5, so the usual # limits pretty much rule out all gatherings 😆
It's like a speed limit. They're not saying "9 is safe, 11 is not" any more than they're saying "59 is safe, 61 is not." But what's the alternative, not providing any guidance as to the size of gatherings that substantially increase risk?
The truth is that mixing households right now is a risky behavior and the more people you're gathering in these mixings, the more people are immediately impacted and the larger the risk to the rest of us as people disperse from those mixed gatherings and go back into the world. People have to evaluate that risk with the other information they have about their priorities and other risks. What makes this so emotionally fraught is that those who are choosing to mix households are making decisions for the rest of us too, including those of us who have decided to not gather with others for the holidays.19 -
I figure nothing is guaranteed in the next year anyway. I could get hit by a car while running and not survive until next Thanksgiving. That is true most years and I still stay home by myself (and my cat, Midnight) for most holidays... or use the day off to go hiking, running, etc. somewhere else, but still by myself. Maybe my perspective is very different than most, but I don't reserve holidays for extended family. I talk to my mom often when it isn't a holiday, and same with other relatives. But geography makes in person gatherings more difficult and not worthwhile most of the time. Holidays are no exception. Sorry to be a grinch (not really), but I just don't see what all the fuss is about.19
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cwolfman13 wrote: »...you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not...
I don't want to be the REASON this may be someone's last Thanksgiving. That's the whole point of NOT going!
My spouse is an essential worker coming into daily contact with the public at a job where multiple people are out on "COVID leave" right now, at least one of them is dead, and another hasn't been heard from in months (since he was hospitalized) so who knows what happened to him. The bosses aren't saying anything. In the midst of all this chaos, a close proximity co-worker decided to go to a big family birthday party recently (because everyone pressured him about seeing Grandpa before it's too late) and co-worker came down with the virus shortly after. Grandpa is still OK, but Uncle who attended is now in the hospital and co-worker's sister is not doing well either. So it may be Uncle's last Thanksgiving, all because they had to have this party. Doesn't make any sense to me. Gotta have these get-togethers "just in case" the old people don't make it to next year, but you end up causing their premature deaths? If you just HAVE to see Grandpa, it might have been better to individually or small group visit Grandpa in a more socially distant way than to throw a big feast with 70+ maskless people in attendance. I think people just wanted to party, to feel the festivity they've been missing, and Grandpa's birthday was the excuse they needed. Apparently, they made themselves feel better by ensuring that Grandpa had a mask on. But he was the only one.
My husband and I have avoided elderly and high-risk people since the beginning. We aren't going to stop until this mess is under control. Missing out on a single year of holiday parties is not a big ask for me. Keeping my people safe is the priority. It's a bad situation, and some tough decisions have to be made. I just hope people aren't making them lightly.
I think one of the worst things about this pandemic is the fact that SO MANY people are judgmental. And of course it's only acceptable to be judgmental on one perspective and that side doesn't even try to look at it from another point of view.
I have a sister who has a highly aggressive cancer. While I pray daily that she can fight and beat this cancer, I'm also rational enough to know that it's not likely. So yes...I am going to see her for Thanksgiving. People can say they don't want to be the reason for causing it to be the last holiday season for someone (and if that's your choice that's fine) but don't seem to want to understand the other side - that we don't want to give up what is likely her last one. Just because you make one set of choices does not make the other person who made different choices wrong or a terrible person. It makes them human.
Cause let me tell you - if she dies before next Christmas my thoughts on it will NOT be "man I'm glad I didn't give her covid".
We do take precautions, had a kid exposed but no symptoms, had another kid who had cold symptoms - both tested and no Covid. and the exposure kid is well out of her 14 days. But I'm not giving it up...and I really dislike those who look down on people like me.
I think there is a massive difference between getting together with your sister and hosting a massive gathering of people. If people are holding mass gatherings of people, then yes...I judge...because I think it's grossly irresponsible right now. Getting together with a few of your close family members is, IMO, up to one's own personal risk assessment, and is completely different than throwing a massive party.
Yes, I agree with this. My sister and a few others are in my general "pod" -- local people who are all safe and see each other, a small group, and so I will definitely see my sister. I see that as different from traveling out of state or having a bunch of people in from all over and hosting some super spreader event.
There's a lot of grey and I think people should not be judging others as the decisions that need to be made can be difficult. However, I do think there are lots of obviously irresponsible things that some are doing too (not referring to people on this thread). For example, I put candy outside my door on Halloween with a sign and refilled it, and neighbors did the same or used a candy shoot, and I thought that was great. The kids I saw were in small family groups (or probably friends from their pods in some cases), and everyone seemed to be wearing masks. I thought that was great and bristled at those who judged and said Halloween going forward at all was unacceptable. But there also were massive Halloween house parties, and I am not sympathetic to those at all -- I'm actually quite annoyed at those participating.8 -
I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
I don't do FB (I have a profile that hasn't been updated in years and almost never go on), but from what people I know have reported, the judgment comes from all sides and it's generally terrible, not specifically about covid, but covid is not helping. A friend has a close relative who is super anti-mask conspiracy theory and constantly judging others for being (as someone else noted) weak or "sheeple" to the point she sees him differently than she did before and had to mute it. I know many others who report similar stuff.
My own experience with this has been NextDoor, although currently I read it only for coyote and deer sighting posts and photos (I live in a city, and although we've always had coyotes they've taken over the site like crazy lately; the deer pretty much live in cemeteries). Ever since March, however, it's been endless fights and judgy-ness (on both sides) about masks to the extent that it was making me upset and paranoid. (I am pro mask, but I also find it difficult to run in a mask and tend to choose times when few are out and I can easily social distance, and I do actively change direction, cross the street, move into the street as needed, but apparently some have had such bad experiences with runners not doing that that they are inclined to judge all, or to proclaim such things are not sufficient. I still think the anti maskers and those being incredibly irresponsible (as with the huge house parties) are worse -- and yes, now I'm judging too -- but I get the feeling that one is being judged no matter what and that some are enjoying that, even.)5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I figure nothing is guaranteed in the next year anyway. I could get hit by a car while running and not survive until next Thanksgiving. That is true most years and I still stay home by myself (and my cat, Midnight) for most holidays... or use the day off to go hiking, running, etc. somewhere else, but still by myself. Maybe my perspective is very different than most, but I don't reserve holidays for extended family. I talk to my mom often when it isn't a holiday, and same with other relatives. But geography makes in person gatherings more difficult and not worthwhile most of the time. Holidays are no exception. Sorry to be a grinch (not really), but I just don't see what all the fuss is about.
I would find it much easier to say "no" to someone inviting me and it your situation I would likely do exactly the same. What I struggle with is that I have been the host for both T-day and Xmas as long I can remember. So the stress on me is disinviting people when I have no idea how they are feeling.
4 -
I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
I don't do FB (I have a profile that hasn't been updated in years and almost never go on), but from what people I know have reported, the judgment comes from all sides and it's generally terrible, not specifically about covid, but covid is not helping. A friend has a close relative who is super anti-mask conspiracy theory and constantly judging others for being (as someone else noted) weak or "sheeple" to the point she sees him differently than she did before and had to mute it. I know many others who report similar stuff.
My own experience with this has been NextDoor, although currently I read it only for coyote and deer sighting posts and photos (I live in a city, and although we've always had coyotes they've taken over the site like crazy lately; the deer pretty much live in cemeteries). Ever since March, however, it's been endless fights and judgy-ness (on both sides) about masks to the extent that it was making me upset and paranoid. (I am pro mask, but I also find it difficult to run in a mask and tend to choose times when few are out and I can easily social distance, and I do actively change direction, cross the street, move into the street as needed, but apparently some have had such bad experiences with runners not doing that that they are inclined to judge all, or to proclaim such things are not sufficient. I still think the anti maskers and those being incredibly irresponsible (as with the huge house parties) are worse -- and yes, now I'm judging too -- but I get the feeling that one is being judged no matter what and that some are enjoying that, even.)
For whatever reason, NextDoor asked me to be a moderator locally. I have no idea why. I'm not particularly cool headed or reasonable at times. I have pleaded with people to be nicer. Not working. They are at each others throats. For every two level headed people, there are two extremes. Sad really.
One lady this morning was calling out a particular clerk at the local Post Office. I'm thinking, do we really need to do that?? Yes, someone at the post office should be wearing a mask, but to call them out on NextDoor by name? And when someone points out that NextDoor is about neighbors and after all the division we are still all neighbors, heaven forbid. Then the thread deteriorates to the extreme. I'm trying to figure out how not to be a moderator any longer.15 -
Ugh, my sympathies!1
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Yep--and it isn't even Christmas yet. This is dividing friends and families and causing arguments. It makes me sad. Stay safe everyone. This thing is a monster, and it's worldwide. Even countries that have been careful are seeing their COVID numbers out of control.6
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