Coronavirus prep
Replies
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I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
Personally, I'm feeling like grace cuts both ways. Everyone's under a lot of stress, and more likely to act out. I'm working really hard to remember that when people lash out in ways that raise my emotional temperature, so that I don't add fuel. (In my case, I've seen more of the "sheeple", "living your life in fear", "not helping businesses" sort of lash-out, because as a comfortably introverted, retired, live-alone person, I'm cocooning more than some do or even can.)
Unlike you, I think it's helpful that there are numerical guidelines, but I don't expect people to slavishly stick to them. Of course it's not *really* "9 OK, 11 dangerous". What I do think an actual number does, that a more open-ended "limit gatherings" or "no big parties" or somesuch doesn't, is trigger some people to think a little harder, and not just go with "well, it's just our regular 14 or 15 people, not a big party", but maybe go beyond that to think "well, maybe we could cut that down a bit without major sacrifice, and suggest that Aunt Sally and her boyfriend from across the state notcome this time" and that sort of thing.
You have circumstances that are unusual, in that you have have a family member who is truly very likely not to be here to celebrate with you next year: I'm so sorry that's true for you. Probably numerically more people are in opposite circumstances, where they have elders or others that maybe/possibly might not be here next year based on pure statistics (could be true for any of us, realistically), but that are in demographics whose Covid mortality risk is significantly above broad-population averages. Add in the (true) idea that one family's tilt in the direction of accepting more Covid risk - even when done for very valid reasons - creates a small bit more risk for their other social connections and community . . . well, tempers will flare, in what are already stressful circumstances.
I'm sorry that your family is going through this extra stress, in an already stressful time. Wishing you the best possible outcomes, in all ways.
I view the numerical guidelines as a way for people who don’t want to make others feel bad/offend them/whatever to use an an excuse/ “blame The authority” when declining an invitation or deciding not to host an event. Much like we give teenagers the “out” to blame their parents for their overprotective lame rules in order to save face and exit a potentially dangerous or uncomfortable situation.
So we can say, “oh, we aren’t hosting our annual XYZ party bc we can’t have more than 10 people”, without making it about us/our feelings/decisions. Or we can decline invitations and say, “the county is saying only 10 people, so we don’t want to put you over the limit, we’ll catch you next time”.
We’re a family if 6 and the smallest family we know is 5, so the usual # limits pretty much rule out all gatherings 😆10 -
gradchica27 wrote: »I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
Personally, I'm feeling like grace cuts both ways. Everyone's under a lot of stress, and more likely to act out. I'm working really hard to remember that when people lash out in ways that raise my emotional temperature, so that I don't add fuel. (In my case, I've seen more of the "sheeple", "living your life in fear", "not helping businesses" sort of lash-out, because as a comfortably introverted, retired, live-alone person, I'm cocooning more than some do or even can.)
Unlike you, I think it's helpful that there are numerical guidelines, but I don't expect people to slavishly stick to them. Of course it's not *really* "9 OK, 11 dangerous". What I do think an actual number does, that a more open-ended "limit gatherings" or "no big parties" or somesuch doesn't, is trigger some people to think a little harder, and not just go with "well, it's just our regular 14 or 15 people, not a big party", but maybe go beyond that to think "well, maybe we could cut that down a bit without major sacrifice, and suggest that Aunt Sally and her boyfriend from across the state notcome this time" and that sort of thing.
You have circumstances that are unusual, in that you have have a family member who is truly very likely not to be here to celebrate with you next year: I'm so sorry that's true for you. Probably numerically more people are in opposite circumstances, where they have elders or others that maybe/possibly might not be here next year based on pure statistics (could be true for any of us, realistically), but that are in demographics whose Covid mortality risk is significantly above broad-population averages. Add in the (true) idea that one family's tilt in the direction of accepting more Covid risk - even when done for very valid reasons - creates a small bit more risk for their other social connections and community . . . well, tempers will flare, in what are already stressful circumstances.
I'm sorry that your family is going through this extra stress, in an already stressful time. Wishing you the best possible outcomes, in all ways.
I view the numerical guidelines as a way for people who don’t want to make others feel bad/offend them/whatever to use an an excuse/ “blame The authority” when declining an invitation or deciding not to host an event. Much like we give teenagers the “out” to blame their parents for their overprotective lame rules in order to save face and exit a potentially dangerous or uncomfortable situation.
So we can say, “oh, we aren’t hosting our annual XYZ party bc we can’t have more than 10 people”, without making it about us/our feelings/decisions. Or we can decline invitations and say, “the county is saying only 10 people, so we don’t want to put you over the limit, we’ll catch you next time”.
We’re a family if 6 and the smallest family we know is 5, so the usual # limits pretty much rule out all gatherings 😆
It's like a speed limit. They're not saying "9 is safe, 11 is not" any more than they're saying "59 is safe, 61 is not." But what's the alternative, not providing any guidance as to the size of gatherings that substantially increase risk?
The truth is that mixing households right now is a risky behavior and the more people you're gathering in these mixings, the more people are immediately impacted and the larger the risk to the rest of us as people disperse from those mixed gatherings and go back into the world. People have to evaluate that risk with the other information they have about their priorities and other risks. What makes this so emotionally fraught is that those who are choosing to mix households are making decisions for the rest of us too, including those of us who have decided to not gather with others for the holidays.19 -
I figure nothing is guaranteed in the next year anyway. I could get hit by a car while running and not survive until next Thanksgiving. That is true most years and I still stay home by myself (and my cat, Midnight) for most holidays... or use the day off to go hiking, running, etc. somewhere else, but still by myself. Maybe my perspective is very different than most, but I don't reserve holidays for extended family. I talk to my mom often when it isn't a holiday, and same with other relatives. But geography makes in person gatherings more difficult and not worthwhile most of the time. Holidays are no exception. Sorry to be a grinch (not really), but I just don't see what all the fuss is about.19
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cwolfman13 wrote: »...you should take into account how this may be someone's last Thanksgiving when you are making the decision on if you should attend or not...
I don't want to be the REASON this may be someone's last Thanksgiving. That's the whole point of NOT going!
My spouse is an essential worker coming into daily contact with the public at a job where multiple people are out on "COVID leave" right now, at least one of them is dead, and another hasn't been heard from in months (since he was hospitalized) so who knows what happened to him. The bosses aren't saying anything. In the midst of all this chaos, a close proximity co-worker decided to go to a big family birthday party recently (because everyone pressured him about seeing Grandpa before it's too late) and co-worker came down with the virus shortly after. Grandpa is still OK, but Uncle who attended is now in the hospital and co-worker's sister is not doing well either. So it may be Uncle's last Thanksgiving, all because they had to have this party. Doesn't make any sense to me. Gotta have these get-togethers "just in case" the old people don't make it to next year, but you end up causing their premature deaths? If you just HAVE to see Grandpa, it might have been better to individually or small group visit Grandpa in a more socially distant way than to throw a big feast with 70+ maskless people in attendance. I think people just wanted to party, to feel the festivity they've been missing, and Grandpa's birthday was the excuse they needed. Apparently, they made themselves feel better by ensuring that Grandpa had a mask on. But he was the only one.
My husband and I have avoided elderly and high-risk people since the beginning. We aren't going to stop until this mess is under control. Missing out on a single year of holiday parties is not a big ask for me. Keeping my people safe is the priority. It's a bad situation, and some tough decisions have to be made. I just hope people aren't making them lightly.
I think one of the worst things about this pandemic is the fact that SO MANY people are judgmental. And of course it's only acceptable to be judgmental on one perspective and that side doesn't even try to look at it from another point of view.
I have a sister who has a highly aggressive cancer. While I pray daily that she can fight and beat this cancer, I'm also rational enough to know that it's not likely. So yes...I am going to see her for Thanksgiving. People can say they don't want to be the reason for causing it to be the last holiday season for someone (and if that's your choice that's fine) but don't seem to want to understand the other side - that we don't want to give up what is likely her last one. Just because you make one set of choices does not make the other person who made different choices wrong or a terrible person. It makes them human.
Cause let me tell you - if she dies before next Christmas my thoughts on it will NOT be "man I'm glad I didn't give her covid".
We do take precautions, had a kid exposed but no symptoms, had another kid who had cold symptoms - both tested and no Covid. and the exposure kid is well out of her 14 days. But I'm not giving it up...and I really dislike those who look down on people like me.
I think there is a massive difference between getting together with your sister and hosting a massive gathering of people. If people are holding mass gatherings of people, then yes...I judge...because I think it's grossly irresponsible right now. Getting together with a few of your close family members is, IMO, up to one's own personal risk assessment, and is completely different than throwing a massive party.
Yes, I agree with this. My sister and a few others are in my general "pod" -- local people who are all safe and see each other, a small group, and so I will definitely see my sister. I see that as different from traveling out of state or having a bunch of people in from all over and hosting some super spreader event.
There's a lot of grey and I think people should not be judging others as the decisions that need to be made can be difficult. However, I do think there are lots of obviously irresponsible things that some are doing too (not referring to people on this thread). For example, I put candy outside my door on Halloween with a sign and refilled it, and neighbors did the same or used a candy shoot, and I thought that was great. The kids I saw were in small family groups (or probably friends from their pods in some cases), and everyone seemed to be wearing masks. I thought that was great and bristled at those who judged and said Halloween going forward at all was unacceptable. But there also were massive Halloween house parties, and I am not sympathetic to those at all -- I'm actually quite annoyed at those participating.8 -
I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
I don't do FB (I have a profile that hasn't been updated in years and almost never go on), but from what people I know have reported, the judgment comes from all sides and it's generally terrible, not specifically about covid, but covid is not helping. A friend has a close relative who is super anti-mask conspiracy theory and constantly judging others for being (as someone else noted) weak or "sheeple" to the point she sees him differently than she did before and had to mute it. I know many others who report similar stuff.
My own experience with this has been NextDoor, although currently I read it only for coyote and deer sighting posts and photos (I live in a city, and although we've always had coyotes they've taken over the site like crazy lately; the deer pretty much live in cemeteries). Ever since March, however, it's been endless fights and judgy-ness (on both sides) about masks to the extent that it was making me upset and paranoid. (I am pro mask, but I also find it difficult to run in a mask and tend to choose times when few are out and I can easily social distance, and I do actively change direction, cross the street, move into the street as needed, but apparently some have had such bad experiences with runners not doing that that they are inclined to judge all, or to proclaim such things are not sufficient. I still think the anti maskers and those being incredibly irresponsible (as with the huge house parties) are worse -- and yes, now I'm judging too -- but I get the feeling that one is being judged no matter what and that some are enjoying that, even.)5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I figure nothing is guaranteed in the next year anyway. I could get hit by a car while running and not survive until next Thanksgiving. That is true most years and I still stay home by myself (and my cat, Midnight) for most holidays... or use the day off to go hiking, running, etc. somewhere else, but still by myself. Maybe my perspective is very different than most, but I don't reserve holidays for extended family. I talk to my mom often when it isn't a holiday, and same with other relatives. But geography makes in person gatherings more difficult and not worthwhile most of the time. Holidays are no exception. Sorry to be a grinch (not really), but I just don't see what all the fuss is about.
I would find it much easier to say "no" to someone inviting me and it your situation I would likely do exactly the same. What I struggle with is that I have been the host for both T-day and Xmas as long I can remember. So the stress on me is disinviting people when I have no idea how they are feeling.
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I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
I don't do FB (I have a profile that hasn't been updated in years and almost never go on), but from what people I know have reported, the judgment comes from all sides and it's generally terrible, not specifically about covid, but covid is not helping. A friend has a close relative who is super anti-mask conspiracy theory and constantly judging others for being (as someone else noted) weak or "sheeple" to the point she sees him differently than she did before and had to mute it. I know many others who report similar stuff.
My own experience with this has been NextDoor, although currently I read it only for coyote and deer sighting posts and photos (I live in a city, and although we've always had coyotes they've taken over the site like crazy lately; the deer pretty much live in cemeteries). Ever since March, however, it's been endless fights and judgy-ness (on both sides) about masks to the extent that it was making me upset and paranoid. (I am pro mask, but I also find it difficult to run in a mask and tend to choose times when few are out and I can easily social distance, and I do actively change direction, cross the street, move into the street as needed, but apparently some have had such bad experiences with runners not doing that that they are inclined to judge all, or to proclaim such things are not sufficient. I still think the anti maskers and those being incredibly irresponsible (as with the huge house parties) are worse -- and yes, now I'm judging too -- but I get the feeling that one is being judged no matter what and that some are enjoying that, even.)
For whatever reason, NextDoor asked me to be a moderator locally. I have no idea why. I'm not particularly cool headed or reasonable at times. I have pleaded with people to be nicer. Not working. They are at each others throats. For every two level headed people, there are two extremes. Sad really.
One lady this morning was calling out a particular clerk at the local Post Office. I'm thinking, do we really need to do that?? Yes, someone at the post office should be wearing a mask, but to call them out on NextDoor by name? And when someone points out that NextDoor is about neighbors and after all the division we are still all neighbors, heaven forbid. Then the thread deteriorates to the extreme. I'm trying to figure out how not to be a moderator any longer.15 -
Ugh, my sympathies!1
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Yep--and it isn't even Christmas yet. This is dividing friends and families and causing arguments. It makes me sad. Stay safe everyone. This thing is a monster, and it's worldwide. Even countries that have been careful are seeing their COVID numbers out of control.6
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I feel like this post is a little ingenuous.I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
Your friend might be more sympathetic towards your desire to balance enriching your sister’s remaining time with keeping everyone safe from Covid if you didn’t have a lengthy history of publicly minimizing the seriousness of Covid and belittling attempts to protect people from it.
I also strongly disagree that “hoping for the best” is a good approach in this situation, when there are significant safeguards you can put into place to protect yourselves and others who might encounter your family on their travels. We are never guaranteed tomorrow, but that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t look both ways before crossing a busy street.
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rheddmobile wrote: »
I feel like this post is a little ingenuous.I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
Your friend might be more sympathetic towards your desire to balance enriching your sister’s remaining time with keeping everyone safe from Covid if you didn’t have a lengthy history of publicly minimizing the seriousness of Covid and belittling attempts to protect people from it.
I also strongly disagree that “hoping for the best” is a good approach in this situation, when there are significant safeguards you can put into place to protect yourselves and others who might encounter your family on their travels. We are never guaranteed tomorrow, but that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t look both ways before crossing a busy street.
I sincerely doubt he'd have been more sympathetic as I hadn't (until the specific post he objected to) posted anything about covid on facebook. Or at least not anything that suggested I thought the restrictions are stupid, only how much I hate covid both from a personal and a professional point of view.
I do think that some of the measures that are suggested and being implemented are unreasonable and stupid, but regardless of my opinions on them I follow them - wear a mask when out in public, stay 6 feet away from people, don't gather in large groups (though we have had family gatherings on multiple occasions, including afternoons at the lake to enjoy what time we have as a family), don't go to parties (which has frustrated my teenage daughters especially the one who was quarantined because someone else went to a party and got covid), I'm irritated but understanding of the fact that the band doesn't get to go to state football game (in a stadium that seats over 70k for crying outloud), trying to be understanding of the restriction from our mayor that won't allow my daughters to attend their pricey private school in person for the next 2 months but is allowing sports to continue and all the other restrictions no matter how stupid I think they are.
Most of the safeguards make us feel better but I don't really agree that they work. That is a whole different debate though. And regardless of my personal feelings about covid restrictions I don't think that anyone (and especially not someone I considered a real friend) should be calling anyone else out, calling them names or implying negative things about them on a public forum. They can always scroll by and ignore things they don't like.
Being negative towards someone who does something you don't like is not going to make them suddenly do it your way and instead just causes alot of heard feelings on both sides.6 -
Changing the subject:
The medical director of Moderna reported that just because the vaccine is effective and protects the person from getting sick with the virus, it doesn't mean that the person cannot still shed the virus and transmit it to others. So until we know that it is not happening, we may still need to wear masks and keep social distance, and that will not make many people happy
. I suppose that once enough people get vaccinated and we get herd immunity via vaccines, precautions will be lessened.
So far it is known that a vaccine will block infection and viral reproduction in the vaccinated person by activating the immune system before the virus attacks the body; however, there is not proof yet that the vaccine can actually kill the virus and avoid shedding and population infection.
Moderna boss says COVID shot not proven to stop virus spread
https://nypost.com/2020/11/24/moderna-boss-says-covid-shot-not-proven-to-stop-virus-spread/
How a Covid-19 Vaccine Could End Up Helping the Virus Spread
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-11/if-we-re-not-careful-a-vaccine-might-help-covid-19-spread
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From what I read, the vaccine will not be a walk in the park as far as side effects go. Yes it will be much better than catching covid itself, but it's not one of those shots where you can just bounce back to work right away.7
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rheddmobile wrote: »
I feel like this post is a little ingenuous.I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
Your friend might be more sympathetic towards your desire to balance enriching your sister’s remaining time with keeping everyone safe from Covid if you didn’t have a lengthy history of publicly minimizing the seriousness of Covid and belittling attempts to protect people from it.
I also strongly disagree that “hoping for the best” is a good approach in this situation, when there are significant safeguards you can put into place to protect yourselves and others who might encounter your family on their travels. We are never guaranteed tomorrow, but that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t look both ways before crossing a busy street.
I sincerely doubt he'd have been more sympathetic as I hadn't (until the specific post he objected to) posted anything about covid on facebook. Or at least not anything that suggested I thought the restrictions are stupid, only how much I hate covid both from a personal and a professional point of view.
I do think that some of the measures that are suggested and being implemented are unreasonable and stupid, but regardless of my opinions on them I follow them - wear a mask when out in public, stay 6 feet away from people, don't gather in large groups (though we have had family gatherings on multiple occasions, including afternoons at the lake to enjoy what time we have as a family), don't go to parties (which has frustrated my teenage daughters especially the one who was quarantined because someone else went to a party and got covid), I'm irritated but understanding of the fact that the band doesn't get to go to state football game (in a stadium that seats over 70k for crying outloud), trying to be understanding of the restriction from our mayor that won't allow my daughters to attend their pricey private school in person for the next 2 months but is allowing sports to continue and all the other restrictions no matter how stupid I think they are.
Most of the safeguards make us feel better but I don't really agree that they work. That is a whole different debate though. And regardless of my personal feelings about covid restrictions I don't think that anyone (and especially not someone I considered a real friend) should be calling anyone else out, calling them names or implying negative things about them on a public forum. They can always scroll by and ignore things they don't like.
Being negative towards someone who does something you don't like is not going to make them suddenly do it your way and instead just causes alot of heard feelings on both sides.
We all appreciate you following the guidelines. I think the frustration from those that believe the guidelines do work isn't at individuals like you, it's at the individuals that get angry over doing something for the good of others.
This article that came out in the Summer was staggering. 44% of McDonald's employees (mostly kids) were verbally or physically assaulted for asking customers to put on masks. That's insanity. For someone to be that angry to take it out on a minimum wage kid is disgusting.
There's been so much negative on both sides, but there's been a lot more violence and vitriol coming from the anti-maskers, IMHO.
https://www.businessinsider.com/workers-face-verbal-and-physical-assaults-from-anti-mask-customers-2020-711 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »From what I read, the vaccine will not be a walk in the park as far as side effects go. Yes it will be much better than catching covid itself, but it's not one of those shots where you can just bounce back to work right away.
well if it is the same as the shingles than I can handle it. If it's better than all good. Those shingles series shots were pretty awful. Most likely everyone will react in their own individual way. I haven't heard a lot of horror stories floated yet from the folks testing it. Have you?
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SummerSkier wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »From what I read, the vaccine will not be a walk in the park as far as side effects go. Yes it will be much better than catching covid itself, but it's not one of those shots where you can just bounce back to work right away.
well if it is the same as the shingles than I can handle it. If it's better than all good. Those shingles series shots were pretty awful. Most likely everyone will react in their own individual way. I haven't heard a lot of horror stories floated yet from the folks testing it. Have you?
I have no source but from hearing on the news from trial participants... the side effects are like having covid full blown for a week. Which I guess is better than covid for months and months, but still that could deter some from taking the vaccine.3 -
If we can't get back to "life as usual" then what is the point of taking the vaccine? A vaccine that can have serious side effects at that. There's going to be a TON of pushback on this if true...I mean that's not what's been being told to us here in the US, until very recently, and there's going to be many who refuse to do so if we can't leave the masks and social distancing behind.2
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »SummerSkier wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »From what I read, the vaccine will not be a walk in the park as far as side effects go. Yes it will be much better than catching covid itself, but it's not one of those shots where you can just bounce back to work right away.
well if it is the same as the shingles than I can handle it. If it's better than all good. Those shingles series shots were pretty awful. Most likely everyone will react in their own individual way. I haven't heard a lot of horror stories floated yet from the folks testing it. Have you?
I have no source but from hearing on the news from trial participants... the side effects are like having covid full blown for a week. Which I guess is better than covid for months and months, but still that could deter some from taking the vaccine.
Have to see what the Oxford vaccine will do. It's 90% effective and costs $3-$5 a dose. I want to hold out for it (Italy is getting a shipment of the Pfizer vaccine though, since the European Union bought it). Hopefully, it doesn't have awful side effects.5 -
If we can't get back to "life as usual" then what is the point of taking the vaccine? A vaccine that can have serious side effects at that. There's going to be a TON of pushback on this if true...I mean that's not what's been being told to us here in the US, until very recently, and there's going to be many who refuse to do so if we can't leave the masks and social distancing behind.
OMG!! I am not going to even respond or comment to that statement because I would be quarantined by MFP for a very long time. But if you have to ask that question, you really need to learn more about COVID-19. Happy Thanksgiving.
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MikePfirrman wrote: »I literally had someone on Facebook tell me that I'm the reason that we have to have these restrictions and that I'm selfish and generally terrible for suggesting that I'm not going to let fear of Covid change my Thanksgiving plans. Even when told about my sister he still doubled down insisting that the only acceptable way of celebrating is to not do so. This was a person I know in "real life" and had considered a friend for 2 decades now...the judgment is just mindboggling to me and I don't really understand why in general we can't just practice a little love and tolerance for each other.
I will also add that even just limiting to "immediate" family we are not a small group. My younger sister who lives out of town was supposed to come in (as she'd like to spend as much time as possible with our older sister as possible just in case) but my grandmother who lives with her hasn't been feeling well lately and doesn't want to drive 8 hours here and then 8 hours back on such a tight turn around. Hopefully they will be able to come for Christmas as the timeframe can be a little longer. But even without that group of 5 we are still 10+ people. I've never really understood the thought that 9 people would be ok but 11 would not. We should just ask people to use their best judgment and hope for the best, while keeping in mind that we are never guaranteed tomorrow.
That's terrible, the thing you report on Facebook. It's so easy for people to react in a kneejerk way on FB (or the like), in ways they might not in person, and it's hurtful. Every situation is different, and extreme reactions (especially when people don't know the nuances) are not a good reflex.
I don't do FB (I have a profile that hasn't been updated in years and almost never go on), but from what people I know have reported, the judgment comes from all sides and it's generally terrible, not specifically about covid, but covid is not helping. A friend has a close relative who is super anti-mask conspiracy theory and constantly judging others for being (as someone else noted) weak or "sheeple" to the point she sees him differently than she did before and had to mute it. I know many others who report similar stuff.
My own experience with this has been NextDoor, although currently I read it only for coyote and deer sighting posts and photos (I live in a city, and although we've always had coyotes they've taken over the site like crazy lately; the deer pretty much live in cemeteries). Ever since March, however, it's been endless fights and judgy-ness (on both sides) about masks to the extent that it was making me upset and paranoid. (I am pro mask, but I also find it difficult to run in a mask and tend to choose times when few are out and I can easily social distance, and I do actively change direction, cross the street, move into the street as needed, but apparently some have had such bad experiences with runners not doing that that they are inclined to judge all, or to proclaim such things are not sufficient. I still think the anti maskers and those being incredibly irresponsible (as with the huge house parties) are worse -- and yes, now I'm judging too -- but I get the feeling that one is being judged no matter what and that some are enjoying that, even.)
For whatever reason, NextDoor asked me to be a moderator locally. I have no idea why. I'm not particularly cool headed or reasonable at times. I have pleaded with people to be nicer. Not working. They are at each others throats. For every two level headed people, there are two extremes. Sad really.
One lady this morning was calling out a particular clerk at the local Post Office. I'm thinking, do we really need to do that?? Yes, someone at the post office should be wearing a mask, but to call them out on NextDoor by name? And when someone points out that NextDoor is about neighbors and after all the division we are still all neighbors, heaven forbid. Then the thread deteriorates to the extreme. I'm trying to figure out how not to be a moderator any longer.
NextDoor is toxic. A couple of years ago, I signed up to find the owner of a lost dog that wandered into my yard. It worked perfectly and the owner was located in just a couple of hours. I thought wow this is great! I can really keep up with what's going on around here.
Sadly, over time I noticed civility breaking down. It got so bad that I started having not so nice feelings about my neighbors and neighborhood. So I quit the site well over a year ago.
I can only imagine how crazed it's gotten on NextDoor with the election and Covid going on. I don't even want to know. I prefer to think the best of the people around me. I don't need to see their dark sides. Especially now.
IMO, that site is more harmful to communities than it is helpful.3
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