Coronavirus prep

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  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,497 Member
    Yes that is the difference in risk benefit scenarios - Canada has rampant community transmission.

    Australia has almost none - therefore it is safe to discourage vaccination of pregnant women and hold off on AZ vaccine for under 50 s even though that means no vaccine availability for many in practice since regional areas do not have Pfizer, the only other vaccine available anywhere in Aus.

  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    paperpudding wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    Here in Australia the advice is not to get Covid vaccine within 2 weeks of any other vaccine.(before or after)

    Bit tricky as now is also flu vaccine season here - and we have to be careful to have 2 week minimum interval.

    But it applies to Covid and any other vaccine.

    When we get the vaccine in the USA, they have a form we fill out with a bunch of questions. I forget how long, but one of the questions is if we have had any other vaccine within the prior X number of day (weeks, months?). I assume they would not give the Covid vaccine if someone marked Yes to that question.

    I filled out a similar form, and although it asked if we had gotten another vaccine within the past 14 days, it specifically stated "not a contraindication." The question about pregnancy was the same.


    Is a contraindication here ( having any other vaccine in previous 2 weeks)

    It was for me, too. California.
  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    Psychgrrl wrote: »
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    My SIL texted me that her neighbor had gone to the health dept vaccine clinic nearby for her appt and heard they had a couple of hundred extra J&J shots that they were accepting walk ins for. I put on some real pants and ran down there and within 15 minutes I was vaccinated.

    I am on their mailing list and follow them on FB, and there were no emails or posts advertising it. And there were folks there, but no line. I'm so grateful I found out about it, but no idea why they weren't pulling names off the state list and texting people.

    So I ran a bit of a fever last night and felt generally achy. I woke up this morning and the fever is gone for now, but the news said the FDA is suggesting the US halt J&J because it's also seeing rare cases of this blood clot disorder. Oh boy :neutral:

    Nate Silver has a valid point if you follow him on Twitter. Basically pointing out that the number of deaths prevented by going forward with the vaccine far outweighs the number of deaths from this blood clot issue. He is right.

    From a public health perspective it makes sense, even if 1/1000 people died from the vaccine, the other 999 would be protected from COVID death. But do I want to be that one person who sacrifices myself for the cause? Not really.

    I think the main issue here is that we have other vaccines available that don't *seem* to have the same reaction. So is it really ethical to continue using vaccines that do cause this reaction?

    As paperpudding suggested that probably depends on how bad the outbreak is in a given place. In Australia it would seem that they could safely wait without too much death and destruction happening. Here in Ontario cases are out of control and our hospitals are getting overwhelmed, so might not be the best idea to wait.

    J&J is the only single-dose, and I am hearing from a lot of people that won't do 2, but will take 1. Or they are ok with J&J because it works differently supposedly. In addition, a single-dose works best for transient populations (such as prisons).

    Finally, there is that question of how many vaccine doses are available otherwise. Does pulling J&J delay some from getting a vaccine. My understanding is that the answer is Yes... and that's why the risk is so much higher to pull it.

    FTR nobody is "sacrificing" themselves - it isn't known if you will be the 1 in 7 million that dies from the vaccine. It is taking a risk of getting Covid (1 in 15,000 deaths if using conservative estimates and incorrectly ignoring compounded spread to others) vs. taking the risk of death from vaccine at 1 in 7,000,000.

    My "sacrificing myself" comment was based on my hypothetical 1/1000 scenario regarding risk in general not specific to the 1 in 7 million. However the 1 in 7 million isn't necessarily accurate either as they don't have all the data. For example if elderly populations were vaccinated first (and make up say half of the 7 million) and they react less frequently then the risk to someone 30 years old could be significantly higher. Also they originally said that women were at higher risk for AZ but that could due to the fact that the proportion of women in health care fields is higher, so they got the vaccine first.
    All that said the risk does appear to be quite low - but we won't know until a lot more data comes in how low it really is.

    Elderly who wanted vaccines got them before J&J became available in US, so highly unlikely that half are elderly. Recipients will skew young.

    At least here in California, the J&J vaccine was also very popular for and among the homeless population here because it was one dose. I would guess that's the case elsewhere as well, too. Our Public Health/COVID Response Director said the pause in administering J&J was also likely to give time to track down those who might have had side effects as they might not be readily identifiable as CVST or that they are related to the vaccine, given that the reactions have occurred at least six days after the person received the vaccine.

    Yeah, there is a cost to any time lost with the J&J vaxx because there are a number of people for whom getting them in (or going to them) more than once is unlikely or at least difficult. It was kind of apropos that J&J was coming in late behind the first two in the US, as it was going to be most useful in disadvantaged populations that would be lagging behind the haves anyway.

    If they were using the pause to see if this was a larger problem that would reveal itself now that it was known, it doesn't appear like that's happened so far. Hopefully they are updating the fact sheet, getting the word out to the HC community how to treat this rare situation, and then they'll open it back up. If someone who has access to the other shots and no medical reason to avoid them want to choose to not get J&J and look for an mRna shot that's fine, but we are in a race so I hope this is a short pause.

    I just read a good piece about the vaccination effort in NorCal. The mostly rural areas (not the Bay Area), are already leaning towards the anti-vaccine way and the sparsely populated areas make Moderna/Pfizer unrealistic because of the 1000-ish doses per vial. They can’t travel enough to get them into peoples’ arms in a day. And the. There’s coming back around for dose two. Because of the reluctance to vaccinate, public health officials have been going to the people instead of expecting them to come to a vaccination site.

    I don’t know what the response will be to J&J now.
  • Psychgrrl
    Psychgrrl Posts: 3,177 Member
    lokihen wrote: »
    After my first moderna shot the pharmacist didn't say anything about avoiding painkillers. This time I was told to take Tylenol and avoid ibuprofin. I just checked the CDC guidance and it doesn't suggest any restrictions post shot. Any ideas why there is a difference?

    Something in the NSAIDs can interfere with the immune response, whereas acetaminophen doesn’t. I know the actual explanation is deeper, but that was all I needed to know. 😃
  • missysippy930
    missysippy930 Posts: 2,577 Member
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    Psychgrrl wrote: »
    I read an article from Reuters today that said India was currently averaging almost one COVID death every four minutes. 💔

    This is heartbreaking. I know that they live in very tight and close conditions in some areas of the country, and that is what COVID likes. Easy and total spread.

    Drone images of mass cremations as India battles Covid-19
    With a rising death toll in a second wave of the coronavirus pandemic, authorities in India have been forced to hold mass cremations at makeshift sites. The country has seen more than 16 million confirmed cases since the pandemic began.
    Source: CNN

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/04/23/covid-cremations-india-jba-lon-orig.cnn

    Area wise, the size of the US is much bigger than India. Population of India is almost one billion more than the US. Even though India’s cases are spiking now, the US has had almost twice as many cases, and almost twice as many deaths, as India.
  • ReenieHJ
    ReenieHJ Posts: 9,723 Member
    edited April 2021
    My sister watches all the local news. I don't. She said Covid cases have increased 20% in our area. :( WTH? Mostly in younger people and children.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,815 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »

    I have no opinion on US vs IndIa cases, but the worst period for US cases was one when testing was inadequate, A much better comparison between countries is deaths. US deaths in spring 2020 were terrible.

    A lot of the early deaths were elderly people, especially those in nursing homes who were very vulnerable due to coexisting disease and/or age. In some places 2/3 of the deaths were from nursing homes in those early months. I had no idea there were so many people in PA who were over 100 until I looked at the list of those of that age who had died of/with Covid. That isn't the case now, especially in places like India and Brazil.
  • lkpducky
    lkpducky Posts: 18,538 Member
    https://apnews.com/article/cdc-mask-wearing-guidance-d373775ddcf237764c19ff9428b59634
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    edited April 2021
    jenilla1 wrote: »
    Gisel2015 wrote: »
    @missysippy930

    I understand that infections and deaths in a pandemic are always reported in relation to areas. I am referring to the human aspect of the situation, which is something that sometimes we fail to recognize and feel for, and not to statistics. I think that we are getting totally numb to human suffering and despair. For some people it may work, but not for me.

    To my recollection, we didn't see in the continental USA, cremations "at makeshift sites" that can be seen from the air. The same type of images were reported from Brazil.

    When hospitals, morgues, and crematories were overburden at the height of the pandemic in USA, the states or counties provided refrigerator trucks to keep the deceased until a proper burial could be arranged. I can’t imagen not being able to see and be with a dying loved one in a hospital, and then see their bodies being cremated in open fields. Last night in the news it was reported that sometimes the cremations took place in back yards as well. Very sad, and not over yet.

    A couple of years ago, I saw a documentary that covered funerary practices in various parts of the world. (Pre-COVID.) Outdoor, open-air cremations are standard practice in India. The cremation sites I saw in that link look similar to the ones I saw in the documentary. You could see those from the air as well. In the highly populated areas especially, the cremation sites are large and they are burning bodies 24/7. There is a caste of people who basically are born into the trade, and it's a dirty, unhealthy job. And the types of fuels used depend on how much the family can pay - some burn better than others, and do a quicker, cleaner job, etc. Poor people just get burned in a pile together. Seeing a loved one cremated on a pyre of wood outdoors would not be especially traumatic in India. That's a normal cultural practice. Don't let it upset you.

    What IS traumatic is that there are so many dying so quickly, there are more young people dying than normal (probably the more aggressive variants) and people are suffering miserably because there is no oxygen to keep them comfortable and support the lungs.


    ETA: Found this interesting little tidbit regarding the funerals. DO NOT READ if you are sensitive. I personally find this kind of thing fascinating.

    After cremation, ashes and bones are scattered in the sacred Ganges River. (George Harrison and Jerry Garcia's remains went in there, too.) They were having trouble with disease spreading back in the day when poor people (who couldn't afford cremation) just had their bodies tossed right in the river. So...
    "Today only bones and ashes are supposed to be scattered in the river. Even so the cremation process, especially among those who can not afford the large amount of wood needed to incinerate the entire body, leaves behind a lot of half burned body parts. To get rid of the body parts special snapping turtles are bred and released in the river that are taught to consume dead human flesh but not bother swimmers and bathers. These turtles consume about a pound of flesh a day and can reach a size of 70 pounds."

    Was going to say the same... open-air cremations are not a Covid thing because of large numbers of deaths. It's just what some Indians do.

    BTW, remember the mass graves in NYC for unclaimed bodies? We saw the aerial photos of that... and that isn't common in the U.S., but they couldn't hold bodies for long and had to make room. Many cities and states got refrigerated truck trailers after that to be ready for a higher body inventory, but this was NYC during the early spike that caught them unprepared.

    ETA: It is common for the city/state to bury unclaimed bodies, but not in such numbers and usually the bodies are held longer.

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