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Coronavirus prep

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  • hiparihipari Member, Premium Posts: 1,261 Member Member, Premium Posts: 1,261 Member
    jenilla1 wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
    If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.

    As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.

    @hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers :wink: ).

    Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).

    I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).

    A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.

    Sounds super easy for you. This is not so simple in the U.S. We don't have inexpensive universal healthcare with such ease of access as you describe. Many people don't have insurance, so a trip to the doctor can cost more out of pocket just for an office visit than a lot of people make in a day of work. It's not always easy to get same day (or even same week) doctor's appointments. I've never in my life had it take 10 minutes to go see a doctor. There's usually a long wait once you get there, I assume due to overbooking appointments. I've waited hours at times.

    I do have insurance, and getting an appt. can take awhile. If you can't get an appt. with your GP and you need to be seen sooner, you probably have to go to urgent care, which has a much higher copay on my plan. It's definitely a hardship and really is a waste of time and resources to need a note for a single day of absence. Every employer I've ever had has a 3 day rule.

    Happily, during the COVID shut down, my health care plan switched to doing phone appts and the best thing about that is they call you when they are ready. You can rest at home instead of having to travel when you feel awful and then sitting in the office for two to three hours waiting for them to be ready to see you. Hopefully that's something they keep doing.

    Yep, the doctor's note system wouldn't work in the US, based on what I've heard of the US healthcare system. Here in Finland I haven't used public healthcare much since all employers are required to offer a minimum level of preventative healthcare and treatment for work-related accidents and sicknesses, and all employers I've ever worked for have offered a much larger package.

    Last time I needed a doctor, I sat firmly on my couch, opened the healthcare provider's phone app and was talking to a doctor through an 24/7 on-demand chat service within 3 minutes of deciding I need a doctor. In 10 minutes I had a recommendation for physical therapy (you need the recommendation so it's covered by company healthcare), and booked the pt appointment for the next morning. The in-person physical therapy would have taken more time in a smaller city, but I have several locations nearby and chose to go wherever the earliest appointment was. I haven't tried, but some of my colleagues have turned in sick leave notes written by those chat doctors so I think it works just as easily.

    I just opened the app to check next available appointments for the sake of this discussion, and I could have a phone appointment in 5 minutes, video appointment in 20 minutes or in-person appointment nearby in 1 hour. Pre-covid I have once needed a doctor urgently and booked by appointment while literally walking to their location. Waited maybe 15 minutes. Of course, these are just to see any doctor, and the chat/phone/video doctor might be in any of their locations anywhere in the country, so if you want to see a specific professional you might have to wait longer.
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Member Posts: 2,078 Member Member Posts: 2,078 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
    If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.

    As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.

    @hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers :wink: ).
    Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).

    I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).

    When I was in the military, we were required to go to Sick Call if we weren't going to show up for work. This was a very effective method of getting people to show up to work. I believe I took sick time just once in four years.

    By contrast, at my previous job, where I was a machine operator, the amount of sick time people took was staggering. And by "sick" I mean "too hungover to work."

    When we got paid on Fridays at lunch time, a number of people would not return after lunch. (This was in the 80s before direct deposit was widespread.) So they moved payday to Thursday at lunch, which made things worse - that group would take Thursday afternoon off, as well as all day Friday. Then they moved it to Wednesday, which did improve matters. (Probably we got paid at lunch so people could go to the bank while it was open.)

    Back to the military - while we certainly did have our share of partiers, especially in Okinawa, due to the Sick Call policy people did make it in to work far more often than they would have without it.

    After the military I started working in white collar jobs. I'm not remembering the specific details of sick and personal time at the liberal arts college, but it was very generous. Possibly we needed to see a doctor if we were out for more than three days. However, my coworkers and I were hardly ever out sick.

    A few years after I started my large corporate accounting job, part of my position was supervision the production accounting clerks who, among other things, had to deliver paychecks the foremen weekly to distribute to their union employees. There was a union contract coming up and the company wanted to make direct deposit mandatory for the union employees like it was for everyone else. The union fought it and it was not included in the contract, but did make the next one 4 years later. I asked the clerks I worked for what the big deal was. They said it wasn't an uncommon practice for someone to get their weekly check on Friday, cash it at the bar, spend some time at the bar drinking, maybe some gambling, then go home and show the spouse what was left of the paycheck "after #@%$@#& Uncle Sam" got hold of it.

    Complete digression, but similar experience that I found entertaining: I was project manager for replacing the payroll system in a large organization (20k+ employees, I think 7 or so unions). The old system could only handle direct deposit for regular paychecks, not for special payments (longevity, some groups' overtime, etc.) that was paid off their usual pay schedule. New system would automatically do direct deposit for everything, paid on any schedule, once the employee signed up for it. Project team & payroll managers thought this was a feature, but one of the unions (the cops!) went ballistic when they learned. Turned out that a goodly number of their members were not telling their spouses about the overtime pay & longevity that they got off normal schedule! Fortunately, the payroll manager had a backbone, told them their marital deceptions were their problem, not the organization's, and made it stick. 😆

    Surprised the union didn't think to have the method of pay in their contract, but good for the payroll manager.
  • SModa61SModa61 Member Posts: 1,834 Member Member Posts: 1,834 Member
    mask, no mask, vaccinated, not vaccinated. This article was published in the Boston Globe yesterday. Do with it what you wish. :)

    https://edition.pagesuite.com/popovers/dynamic_article_popover.aspx?artguid=3a420434-4e04-4635-864b-8941db69ba51&appid=1165
  • janejellyrolljanejellyroll Member Posts: 25,871 Member Member Posts: 25,871 Member
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Is anyone else feeling odd or frowned upon appearing to be in the minority of mask-wearers now??
    I haven't kept up with all the new rules about masks, etc., but people are not wearing masks A LOT more now. Even cashiers, etc., who are exposed to tons of people every day. I assume people are now assuming the masked ones haven't been vaccinated. I am still masking though vaccinated and it makes me feel like the odd one out. Is it now overkill?
    My dh's employers now told them they no longer have to wear a mask if they don't want to. Are the numbers dropping that quickly? But the younger children are just barely coming into the circle of possibly being vaccinated, right?
    Sorry, as I said, I've stopped keeping up with it because I've heard and read so many conflicting reports, it gets confusing. :(

    Where I live (Minnesota), it seems like 70-80% of customers have stopped wearing masks, but most people working in grocery stores and other businesses are still wearing them.
  • Muscleflex79Muscleflex79 Member Posts: 1,913 Member Member Posts: 1,913 Member
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
    If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.

    As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.

    @hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers :wink: ).

    Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).

    I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).

    A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.

    that is not how it works here. my last family doctor I could not get an appointment for at least 3-4 weeks so I'd have to go to a walk-in clinic and that could easily be a multi-hour wait - not exactly what someone would want to spend their time when they are already sick. as others have stated, the States is similar and expensive and certainly not the 10 minute simple process you outlined above.
  • SummerSkierSummerSkier Member, Premium Posts: 2,739 Member Member, Premium Posts: 2,739 Member
    I have been to several health appts recently and they are 100% still mask and protocol for entry to buildings. Grocery store slowly changing. Work still 100% mask and protocols. I don't feel frowned upon if I do wear a mask some places.
  • hiparihipari Member, Premium Posts: 1,261 Member Member, Premium Posts: 1,261 Member
    33gail33 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    jenilla1 wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
    If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.

    As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.

    @hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers :wink: ).

    Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).

    I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).

    A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.

    Sounds super easy for you. This is not so simple in the U.S. We don't have inexpensive universal healthcare with such ease of access as you describe. Many people don't have insurance, so a trip to the doctor can cost more out of pocket just for an office visit than a lot of people make in a day of work. It's not always easy to get same day (or even same week) doctor's appointments. I've never in my life had it take 10 minutes to go see a doctor. There's usually a long wait once you get there, I assume due to overbooking appointments. I've waited hours at times.

    I do have insurance, and getting an appt. can take awhile. If you can't get an appt. with your GP and you need to be seen sooner, you probably have to go to urgent care, which has a much higher copay on my plan. It's definitely a hardship and really is a waste of time and resources to need a note for a single day of absence. Every employer I've ever had has a 3 day rule.

    Happily, during the COVID shut down, my health care plan switched to doing phone appts and the best thing about that is they call you when they are ready. You can rest at home instead of having to travel when you feel awful and then sitting in the office for two to three hours waiting for them to be ready to see you. Hopefully that's something they keep doing.

    Yep, the doctor's note system wouldn't work in the US, based on what I've heard of the US healthcare system. Here in Finland I haven't used public healthcare much since all employers are required to offer a minimum level of preventative healthcare and treatment for work-related accidents and sicknesses, and all employers I've ever worked for have offered a much larger package.

    Last time I needed a doctor, I sat firmly on my couch, opened the healthcare provider's phone app and was talking to a doctor through an 24/7 on-demand chat service within 3 minutes of deciding I need a doctor. In 10 minutes I had a recommendation for physical therapy (you need the recommendation so it's covered by company healthcare), and booked the pt appointment for the next morning. The in-person physical therapy would have taken more time in a smaller city, but I have several locations nearby and chose to go wherever the earliest appointment was. I haven't tried, but some of my colleagues have turned in sick leave notes written by those chat doctors so I think it works just as easily.

    I just opened the app to check next available appointments for the sake of this discussion, and I could have a phone appointment in 5 minutes, video appointment in 20 minutes or in-person appointment nearby in 1 hour. Pre-covid I have once needed a doctor urgently and booked by appointment while literally walking to their location. Waited maybe 15 minutes. Of course, these are just to see any doctor, and the chat/phone/video doctor might be in any of their locations anywhere in the country, so if you want to see a specific professional you might have to wait longer.

    Part of the issue is that for a one day mild illness the fact that you can access a doctor is great, but the health care system obviously pays the doctor for their time, and it is a waste of resources.

    And what is the point anyway? So I stay home from work because I have a headache, I get an online appointment with a doctor, tell them over an app that I have a headache, and then they write a note to my employer saying that I have a headache? I don't get the point to that tbh.

    I completely agree on those mild illnesses that don’t require actual medical treatment or advice. This is why I like the fact that most employers here (at least in white-collar jobs) waive the doctor’s note requirement for the first three days.

    I obviously can’t speak about all healthcare providers here, but at least the one my employer uses seems to have a few on-call doctors every day on chat shift, phone shift, video shift and in-person in their largest locations. It’s a very large nationwide healthcare provider with multiple locations. Doesn’t seem that different to another service provider (a telephone company, for example) providing customer service where someone waits for people to chat or call. There are enough people calling in to make it profitable, and taking care of issues when they are still mild prevents larger issues in the future.

    I’ve used the chat service a few times - never for a doctor’s note to turn in, but always for something I needed medical advice or some other documentation. I have renewed a prescription, asked for advice after an accident (was sent to their only 24/7 clinic to get X-rays) and to ask about suitable painkillers during pregnancy - that was the time they recommended physical therapy and wrote the note.

    It’s worth noting that this is a private healthcare provider, not the public healthcare system which is also admittedly great. My employer pays for the healthcare, but the government reimburses parts of healthcare provided by employers as it’s great preventative care to avoid bigger and more costly medical problems falling into the public system.
  • 33gail3333gail33 Member Posts: 956 Member Member Posts: 956 Member
    hipari wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    hipari wrote: »
    jenilla1 wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
    If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.

    As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.

    @hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers :wink: ).

    Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).

    I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).

    A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.

    Sounds super easy for you. This is not so simple in the U.S. We don't have inexpensive universal healthcare with such ease of access as you describe. Many people don't have insurance, so a trip to the doctor can cost more out of pocket just for an office visit than a lot of people make in a day of work. It's not always easy to get same day (or even same week) doctor's appointments. I've never in my life had it take 10 minutes to go see a doctor. There's usually a long wait once you get there, I assume due to overbooking appointments. I've waited hours at times.

    I do have insurance, and getting an appt. can take awhile. If you can't get an appt. with your GP and you need to be seen sooner, you probably have to go to urgent care, which has a much higher copay on my plan. It's definitely a hardship and really is a waste of time and resources to need a note for a single day of absence. Every employer I've ever had has a 3 day rule.

    Happily, during the COVID shut down, my health care plan switched to doing phone appts and the best thing about that is they call you when they are ready. You can rest at home instead of having to travel when you feel awful and then sitting in the office for two to three hours waiting for them to be ready to see you. Hopefully that's something they keep doing.

    Yep, the doctor's note system wouldn't work in the US, based on what I've heard of the US healthcare system. Here in Finland I haven't used public healthcare much since all employers are required to offer a minimum level of preventative healthcare and treatment for work-related accidents and sicknesses, and all employers I've ever worked for have offered a much larger package.

    Last time I needed a doctor, I sat firmly on my couch, opened the healthcare provider's phone app and was talking to a doctor through an 24/7 on-demand chat service within 3 minutes of deciding I need a doctor. In 10 minutes I had a recommendation for physical therapy (you need the recommendation so it's covered by company healthcare), and booked the pt appointment for the next morning. The in-person physical therapy would have taken more time in a smaller city, but I have several locations nearby and chose to go wherever the earliest appointment was. I haven't tried, but some of my colleagues have turned in sick leave notes written by those chat doctors so I think it works just as easily.

    I just opened the app to check next available appointments for the sake of this discussion, and I could have a phone appointment in 5 minutes, video appointment in 20 minutes or in-person appointment nearby in 1 hour. Pre-covid I have once needed a doctor urgently and booked by appointment while literally walking to their location. Waited maybe 15 minutes. Of course, these are just to see any doctor, and the chat/phone/video doctor might be in any of their locations anywhere in the country, so if you want to see a specific professional you might have to wait longer.

    Part of the issue is that for a one day mild illness the fact that you can access a doctor is great, but the health care system obviously pays the doctor for their time, and it is a waste of resources.

    And what is the point anyway? So I stay home from work because I have a headache, I get an online appointment with a doctor, tell them over an app that I have a headache, and then they write a note to my employer saying that I have a headache? I don't get the point to that tbh.

    I completely agree on those mild illnesses that don’t require actual medical treatment or advice. This is why I like the fact that most employers here (at least in white-collar jobs) waive the doctor’s note requirement for the first three days.

    I obviously can’t speak about all healthcare providers here, but at least the one my employer uses seems to have a few on-call doctors every day on chat shift, phone shift, video shift and in-person in their largest locations. It’s a very large nationwide healthcare provider with multiple locations. Doesn’t seem that different to another service provider (a telephone company, for example) providing customer service where someone waits for people to chat or call. There are enough people calling in to make it profitable, and taking care of issues when they are still mild prevents larger issues in the future.

    I’ve used the chat service a few times - never for a doctor’s note to turn in, but always for something I needed medical advice or some other documentation. I have renewed a prescription, asked for advice after an accident (was sent to their only 24/7 clinic to get X-rays) and to ask about suitable painkillers during pregnancy - that was the time they recommended physical therapy and wrote the note.

    It’s worth noting that this is a private healthcare provider, not the public healthcare system which is also admittedly great. My employer pays for the healthcare, but the government reimburses parts of healthcare provided by employers as it’s great preventative care to avoid bigger and more costly medical problems falling into the public system.

    We don't have private health care providers. I mean we do for "extended" health care type things like chiropractors, dental, physiotherapist and such, but not for basic health care. It is all through the public system.

    Just recently I have started seeing ads for apps to see a doctor online - I'm not really sure how those work if there is a service fee or what - but virtual services are becoming available but I know there has been some backlash against them because they seem to circumvent the non-profit mandate.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,556 Member Member Posts: 7,556 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
    If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.

    As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.

    @hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers :wink: ).
    Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).

    I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).

    When I was in the military, we were required to go to Sick Call if we weren't going to show up for work. This was a very effective method of getting people to show up to work. I believe I took sick time just once in four years.

    By contrast, at my previous job, where I was a machine operator, the amount of sick time people took was staggering. And by "sick" I mean "too hungover to work."

    When we got paid on Fridays at lunch time, a number of people would not return after lunch. (This was in the 80s before direct deposit was widespread.) So they moved payday to Thursday at lunch, which made things worse - that group would take Thursday afternoon off, as well as all day Friday. Then they moved it to Wednesday, which did improve matters. (Probably we got paid at lunch so people could go to the bank while it was open.)

    Back to the military - while we certainly did have our share of partiers, especially in Okinawa, due to the Sick Call policy people did make it in to work far more often than they would have without it.

    After the military I started working in white collar jobs. I'm not remembering the specific details of sick and personal time at the liberal arts college, but it was very generous. Possibly we needed to see a doctor if we were out for more than three days. However, my coworkers and I were hardly ever out sick.

    A few years after I started my large corporate accounting job, part of my position was supervision the production accounting clerks who, among other things, had to deliver paychecks the foremen weekly to distribute to their union employees. There was a union contract coming up and the company wanted to make direct deposit mandatory for the union employees like it was for everyone else. The union fought it and it was not included in the contract, but did make the next one 4 years later. I asked the clerks I worked for what the big deal was. They said it wasn't an uncommon practice for someone to get their weekly check on Friday, cash it at the bar, spend some time at the bar drinking, maybe some gambling, then go home and show the spouse what was left of the paycheck "after #@%$@#& Uncle Sam" got hold of it.

    Complete digression, but similar experience that I found entertaining: I was project manager for replacing the payroll system in a large organization (20k+ employees, I think 7 or so unions). The old system could only handle direct deposit for regular paychecks, not for special payments (longevity, some groups' overtime, etc.) that was paid off their usual pay schedule. New system would automatically do direct deposit for everything, paid on any schedule, once the employee signed up for it. Project team & payroll managers thought this was a feature, but one of the unions (the cops!) went ballistic when they learned. Turned out that a goodly number of their members were not telling their spouses about the overtime pay & longevity that they got off normal schedule! Fortunately, the payroll manager had a backbone, told them their marital deceptions were their problem, not the organization's, and made it stick. 😆

    I know someone involved with union contract negotiations for a city (not the one I live in), and something similar happened with their negotiation with the police union just a couple of years ago.
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,556 Member Member Posts: 7,556 Member
    jenilla1 wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    Wow, I'm a little bit baffled - and wiser - reading different approaches to sick days. In Belgium (closer to the rules in Finland apparently), it is very clear: you get x days of paid holidays (the legal minimum is 20 per year for a full time, most companies agree on more) and that's it. Those are for relaxing under the sun!
    If you are sick to the point you can't work, you need to see a doctor and he/she will determine how much time you will be off work. A formal note is written and you have to hand this over to your employer on the first day of illness, whether it is for one day (the 'sneezing with a bit of fever or sprained ankle and can't drive' kind of sickness), for three days, or for a few months alike. Very exceptionally, you can stay one day off work without a doctor's note, but that is - I think - one day a year and you will be on HR's radar if you do that.

    As for the covid vaccines: you will get time off to have the shot (you only need to report it to your manager) and if you have symptoms severe enough to prevent you from working, the same rule applies: see a doctor, which is the most sensible option imo.

    @hipari : I work in the same kind of environment as you do and I get it that you wanted to advocate for your staff and for yourself. I do believe it is a difference in culture and the nature of the job, indeed (although I know some very motivated McDo burger flippers, who follow in-company courses to advance in their careers :wink: ).

    Wow, this seems like it would be a huge waste of medical resources to have to go to a doctor for a single day off. not to mention, if someone is off feeling like **** the last thing they probably feel like doing is sitting around a doctor's office for half a day trying to get a note. I'm in Canada and at my employer and any I've heard of, if you are off more than 3 in a row you need a note which seems reasonable (not sure if that is a Canada thing or if it varies by employer).

    I'm fortunate that where I work we are allowed 120 sick days per year - yes - 120. I remember when I first got the job many, many years ago telling my parents about it and they literally did not believe me. I had to show them in writing and they just shook their heads. And yes, some people have taken every single one of those (but most people average less than 10).

    A doctor's check for a 1 - 3 day note usually takes up 10 minutes. You go in, doctor checks you out, gives you the note and you're out again. If you really feel like crap, you can ask a doctor's visit at home. It is almost always a family GP who knows you and your file. I think it is a good system as it takes away the ambiguity away from the employer - employee relationship.

    Sounds super easy for you. This is not so simple in the U.S. We don't have inexpensive universal healthcare with such ease of access as you describe. Many people don't have insurance, so a trip to the doctor can cost more out of pocket just for an office visit than a lot of people make in a day of work. It's not always easy to get same day (or even same week) doctor's appointments. I've never in my life had it take 10 minutes to go see a doctor. There's usually a long wait once you get there, I assume due to overbooking appointments. I've waited hours at times.

    I do have insurance, and getting an appt. can take awhile. If you can't get an appt. with your GP and you need to be seen sooner, you probably have to go to urgent care, which has a much higher copay on my plan. It's definitely a hardship and really is a waste of time and resources to need a note for a single day of absence. Every employer I've ever had has a 3 day rule.

    Happily, during the COVID shut down, my health care plan switched to doing phone appts and the best thing about that is they call you when they are ready. You can rest at home instead of having to travel when you feel awful and then sitting in the office for two to three hours waiting for them to be ready to see you. Hopefully that's something they keep doing.

    I am in probably the best possible situation (good insurance), and I have called with something that was potentially urgent (it could have been serious, turned out to be nothing), and I was able to get in later that day, and the appt went reasonably quickly, but even so, I see major issues. First, my doctor is not near my house. I prefer a specific affiliation, and also it is usually more convenient (pre covid) to have regular appointments closer to my office anyway. So best case scenario I'd be driving (while sick enough to think I needed to take off work) at least 30 mins, depending on traffic. Many people don't have cars, so public transit would be required. Second, it's only possible to get a same day appointment if you really have reason to think it's needed. Otherwise, they can't really fit you in to say it is a stomach virus or whatever. (And if I'm having stomach virus type issues, leaving the house is an issue.)
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Member Posts: 7,556 Member Member Posts: 7,556 Member
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    Is anyone else feeling odd or frowned upon appearing to be in the minority of mask-wearers now??

    Not in Chicago. Most places still require masks inside and those that don't still have mostly mask wearers, at least in the neighborhoods I live in, work in, and go to. I tend to wear them indoors in public places like stores and not outdoors. They are also required on public transportation.
    My dh's employers now told them they no longer have to wear a mask if they don't want to. Are the numbers dropping that quickly? But the younger children are just barely coming into the circle of possibly being vaccinated, right?

    My office has this rule for vaccinated people (we are all vaccinated now anyway). The public building spaces (lobby and elevator) require masks still.

    The numbers are dropping quite quickly.
  • spiriteagle99spiriteagle99 Member Posts: 3,192 Member Member Posts: 3,192 Member
    Here in PA it is required that everyone wear a mask at medical offices/facilities and government offices. Employees at stores and restaurants are required to wear a mask as well. Customers are mostly free to not wear a mask if they have been vaccinated. From what I've seen, only about 25% seem to wear masks. Not all the employees wear them correctly but they do wear something.

    The governor's plan was to remove the state mask mandate when 70% were fully vaccinated. At the moment about 70% have had at least one shot. The problem is that the vaccination rate isn't evenly spread. Some areas have more than 70% vaccinated, my area is still only about 30%. Even so, our case and death numbers have dropped significantly in the past few weeks, so it is working.
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