Coronavirus prep
Replies
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Well, I threw up my hands and got the 2nd Pfizer booster (shot #4). IMU, the "available to over 50" CDC guidance recently turned into "recommended for over 50", and I'm certainly over 50, as well as having other risk (early COPD, but asymptomatic).
I'd been thinking I'd wait for a more variant-attuned alternative, but best guess is that it won't be here until Fall (though I recently heard maybe on a faster track than initially expected - don't have details).
Best guess also would be that they'd suggest a new variant injection not happen until 2-3 months after the basic one, so I don't think I'm introducing a lot of time-slack into getting a future variant one, but I could be wrong. 🤷♀️
BTW, near zero side effects from #4 for me, I think. I can feel a very slightly tender spot on upper arm if I push hard on it, but that's about it. NBD.10 -
I'm popping in for a minute, since I've been catching up on this post, and it's been a real eye-opener. Some of our posters are reasonable thinkers--Ann, Wolfman, PaperPudding, Chef Barbell, just to name a very few off-hand. I agree with your stance, as does my cardiologist BIL, who just says "You DON'T want long COVID". We do whatever he recommends, and will probably get another booster in the Fall when he tells us too. We had COVID in our family, here in Rome, in January and I had just had the booster 3 weeks before. I had no symptoms at all.
Right now COVID is everywhere in Italy. I keep hearing from people I know that have it, but all mild cases if they've been vaxxed. It's high tourist season here, and in the 100's. You just can't stay vigilant forever. As long as ICUs and hospitals aren't overrun, we'll be OK.
I'm laughing at certain posts--here's to you Lisa. I know people that didn't get vaxxed in my own family. My youngest son and one of my brothers (out of 5) is also against it, but that's a choice. Do what you will, but don't spout nonsense and expect people to agree. Hope you live a long and happy life.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »OMG! I finally opened my last case of TP - 2019 vintage. The stock up has nothing to do with Covid, but when the pandemic hit, I was happy to have a prepper's storage closet, full larder and a victory garden going. Looks like I'm finally going to have to buy some Charmin some time in 2023.
On a more serious note, my entire reason for losing weight (6 stone) and exercising daily was because I feared obese out-of-shape me mightn't survive the virus. I finally did get Covid last month and thanks to Pfizer and a much healthier body, it was pretty much a two-day case of the sniffles.
Good for you.
I wish they would have emphasized the roll good health plays (normal weight and exercise) in fights this from day 1.
Still not doing it
.
There's a terrible track record for the general public paying attention to those kind of alarms, based on what's happened to various public health measures over the last few decades. I can understand why the medical establishment would think it'd be fruitless to blow that horn.
That said, for a person to not know or realize that from pretty early on, I think they'd mostly need to be exercising willful ignorance. It didn't take long, for example, before obesity was obviously and publically flagged as a risk factor for worse infection, along with some of the metabolic conditions that are common in that context.
For sure, for someone to not realize that a sub-par diet, excess body weight, and unfitness are health risks in a more general sense . . . well, with rare exceptions they'd need to be working at avoiding the realization, seems like. I've been one of those people, in some respects. It's pretty easy to ignore a clear message one doesn't want to act on, IME.
We've seen some folks here who got that message about Covid risk and lifestyle, mentioned it when they joined MFP; some have even stuck around and succeeded.
It's a sad statement on the US population that the collective "we" just want a pill or shot to take care of an issue rather than taking reasonable personal responsibility to help mitigate a potential health issue. Sure getting the shots is important, but would be nice to also see some personal ownership instead of an average Covid weight gain of whatever the number is.
Just me ranting.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »cant speak for the NHS - but there in Australia Vitamin D is a regular request in standard base line bloods and any patient could request it if Dr did not add already.
I had bloodwork done at the beginning of the pandemic when Australia went into 'lockdown' and as many of us as possible worked from home. I was very deficient in Vitamin D. It was very likely a contributor to the mild depression I experienced at the onset of the pandemic. I double dosed Vit D through Autumn and Winter and single dosed through spring and summer. I also stepped up my outdoor walks in sun safe periods of the day and moved my desk closer to a large window.
My Vit D levels are now satisfactory but still take supplements as I largely still work from home.
I was aware of the function of Vitamin D prior to COVID19 but had no idea that an Australian living in a northern state could be so deficient.4 -
DiscoveringLisa wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »OMG! I finally opened my last case of TP - 2019 vintage. The stock up has nothing to do with Covid, but when the pandemic hit, I was happy to have a prepper's storage closet, full larder and a victory garden going. Looks like I'm finally going to have to buy some Charmin some time in 2023.
On a more serious note, my entire reason for losing weight (6 stone) and exercising daily was because I feared obese out-of-shape me mightn't survive the virus. I finally did get Covid last month and thanks to Pfizer and a much healthier body, it was pretty much a two-day case of the sniffles.
Good for you.
I wish they would have emphasized the roll good health plays (normal weight and exercise) in fights this from day 1.
Still not doing it.
Of course they're not, the pharmaceutical companies are making an absolute fortune from flogging the vaccine to the panic stricken masses. It's been shown that vitamin d is highly protective, particularly against the worst effects of respiratory infections...but are we hearing about that? Or the fact that most people, at least in Europe and America, are deficient in vitamin d and should be supplementing? Nope. Vitamin D3, taken with K2 is highly beneficial to our immunity and general health but it's also very cheap and only benefits us....not them...so...
FYI - Dr. Fauci (the US guy) advocated taking vitamin D back in 2020 ...
“If you are deficient in vitamin D, that does have an impact on your susceptibility to infection. So I would not mind recommending, and I do it myself taking vitamin D supplements,” Fauci,79,
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/14/supplements-white-house-advisor-fauci-takes-every-day-to-help-keep-his-immune-system-healthy.html
I certainly heard about the benefits, it was widely reported. I've been taking it from the beginning.8 -
siberiantarragon wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Nobody claims the vaccine is perfect.
They did originally. They said it was over 95% effective originally which is about as close to perfect as you get with vaccines. Now they can't even give us a number. Also, remember they originally claimed COVID mutated slowly and mutations were not expected to significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? Believe the science, whatever it is this week.Despite mutations in the virus it does reduce your chances of catching it and greatly reduce the chances of severe disease if you do
No vaccine reduces your chance of GETTING a virus. The virus will still get into your body either way. It just reduces your symptoms and the ability of the virus to replicate (if the vaccine is effective, that is). Of course in some viruses, as with dengue fever and the vaccine trials for the original SARS, being infected once actually makes the symptoms worse if you are infected again.
This worried me at first with the vaccine. But then I realized that if it were to happen with Covid the same antibody enhancement effect would happen after natural infection OR vaccine, and my chance of avoiding natural infection indefinitely was pretty much zero.
Does anyone know if subsequent infections tend to be worse? I am still a little nervous about this enhancement effect occurring with new variants. I'm vaxx'd, boosted (1) and had Covid (probably Omicron) in April. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has had multiple infections how that went for you ....1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »OMG! I finally opened my last case of TP - 2019 vintage. The stock up has nothing to do with Covid, but when the pandemic hit, I was happy to have a prepper's storage closet, full larder and a victory garden going. Looks like I'm finally going to have to buy some Charmin some time in 2023.
On a more serious note, my entire reason for losing weight (6 stone) and exercising daily was because I feared obese out-of-shape me mightn't survive the virus. I finally did get Covid last month and thanks to Pfizer and a much healthier body, it was pretty much a two-day case of the sniffles.
Good for you.
I wish they would have emphasized the roll good health plays (normal weight and exercise) in fights this from day 1.
Still not doing it.
There's a terrible track record for the general public paying attention to those kind of alarms, based on what's happened to various public health measures over the last few decades. I can understand why the medical establishment would think it'd be fruitless to blow that horn.
That said, for a person to not know or realize that from pretty early on, I think they'd mostly need to be exercising willful ignorance. It didn't take long, for example, before obesity was obviously and publically flagged as a risk factor for worse infection, along with some of the metabolic conditions that are common in that context.
For sure, for someone to not realize that a sub-par diet, excess body weight, and unfitness are health risks in a more general sense . . . well, with rare exceptions they'd need to be working at avoiding the realization, seems like. I've been one of those people, in some respects. It's pretty easy to ignore a clear message one doesn't want to act on, IME.
We've seen some folks here who got that message about Covid risk and lifestyle, mentioned it when they joined MFP; some have even stuck around and succeeded.
It's a sad statement on the US population that the collective "we" just want a pill or shot to take care of an issue rather than taking reasonable personal responsibility to help mitigate a potential health issue. Sure getting the shots is important, but would be nice to also see some personal ownership instead of an average Covid weight gain of whatever the number is.
Just me ranting.
You want people to blame themselves for getting covid? 🙄2 -
siberiantarragon wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Nobody claims the vaccine is perfect.
They did originally. They said it was over 95% effective originally which is about as close to perfect as you get with vaccines. Now they can't even give us a number. Also, remember they originally claimed COVID mutated slowly and mutations were not expected to significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? Believe the science, whatever it is this week.Despite mutations in the virus it does reduce your chances of catching it and greatly reduce the chances of severe disease if you do
No vaccine reduces your chance of GETTING a virus. The virus will still get into your body either way. It just reduces your symptoms and the ability of the virus to replicate (if the vaccine is effective, that is). Of course in some viruses, as with dengue fever and the vaccine trials for the original SARS, being infected once actually makes the symptoms worse if you are infected again.
This worried me at first with the vaccine. But then I realized that if it were to happen with Covid the same antibody enhancement effect would happen after natural infection OR vaccine, and my chance of avoiding natural infection indefinitely was pretty much zero.
Does anyone know if subsequent infections tend to be worse? I am still a little nervous about this enhancement effect occurring with new variants. I'm vaxx'd, boosted (1) and had Covid (probably Omicron) in April. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has had multiple infections how that went for you ....
It got worse each time and now i have long covid... this is with "healthy eating and supplements and blah blah blah".10 -
I have had covid twice. The 1st time November 2020 extreme headaches, with most every other symptom except difficulty breathing. I would say I was in bed sick for about 6 days. It took a couple months to get my stamina back to normal level. Just plain tired a big portion of the time.
I had covid again December 2021 (Most likely Omicron) and had a slight sore throat and runny nose for a couple days.
My husband contracted again at the end of January 2022 (family gathering, believe brother had it and spread to other family members). I never caught that time. There were 11 adults and 3 kids at the gathering. None of the kids caught it, and 5 adults caught it. (Just weird how it goes to some and not the others. BTW out of the 5 adults getting covid, 2 were vaxxed the other 3 unvaxxed. Others who did not get it were 3 vaxxed and 3 unvaxxed.)
My husband and I had covid at the same time the other prior times. His last experience with covid was loss of taste. Otherwise he didnt have any other symptoms. His taste returned.
Neither of us are vaxxed. Based upon information we have researched, we believe it is/was the best decision for us. As you can tell from above comment, we have family vaxxed and unvaxxed. His parents were both vaxxed (father passed from covid although he was fully vaxxed and 1 booster). My father 85, not vaxxed had covid and suffered the flu/cold symptoms for about 10 days + loss of smell. Fortunately he did not have any breathing issues. He never had long covid even though he is in the high category. (health and age)
There is such a wide variance in severity and contracting the virus. There is so much scientific evidence that contradicts itself from one study to the next. I honestly don't know what "science" is to be taken as factual science. This virus doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason which might be part of the reason.
Everyone should make their own decision and hope we all make the best one for our own self.
I have enjoyed reading the thread quietly from my arm chair.
I am not an antivaxxer. I dont think there were long enough trials or studies for this. (I get it was considered a health emergency). At this point, I believe I have made the right choice for myself.
Stay healthy and happy!
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Nobody claims the vaccine is perfect.
They did originally. They said it was over 95% effective originally which is about as close to perfect as you get with vaccines. Now they can't even give us a number. Also, remember they originally claimed COVID mutated slowly and mutations were not expected to significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? Believe the science, whatever it is this week.Despite mutations in the virus it does reduce your chances of catching it and greatly reduce the chances of severe disease if you do
No vaccine reduces your chance of GETTING a virus. The virus will still get into your body either way. It just reduces your symptoms and the ability of the virus to replicate (if the vaccine is effective, that is). Of course in some viruses, as with dengue fever and the vaccine trials for the original SARS, being infected once actually makes the symptoms worse if you are infected again.
This worried me at first with the vaccine. But then I realized that if it were to happen with Covid the same antibody enhancement effect would happen after natural infection OR vaccine, and my chance of avoiding natural infection indefinitely was pretty much zero.
Does anyone know if subsequent infections tend to be worse? I am still a little nervous about this enhancement effect occurring with new variants. I'm vaxx'd, boosted (1) and had Covid (probably Omicron) in April. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has had multiple infections how that went for you ....
It got worse each time and now i have long covid... this is with "healthy eating and supplements and blah blah blah".
Sorry to hear that you are suffering from long covid. I have a viral illness in June 2020 that resulted in post viral fatigue syndrome for 6ish months, but the illness itself was very mild. Basically a headache and extreme fatigue, which then took months to resolve. (Tested negative at the time but still think it might have been Covid). Then my bout with Omicron in April was like the worst flu ever had, but resolved with no significant after effects.
Is post viral fatigue basically the same as long Covid? I had a few months of daily headaches, fatigue, facial pain, twitching, vertigo, brain fog etc. No lung issues, more neurological type things.2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Nobody claims the vaccine is perfect.
They did originally. They said it was over 95% effective originally which is about as close to perfect as you get with vaccines. Now they can't even give us a number. Also, remember they originally claimed COVID mutated slowly and mutations were not expected to significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? Believe the science, whatever it is this week.Despite mutations in the virus it does reduce your chances of catching it and greatly reduce the chances of severe disease if you do
No vaccine reduces your chance of GETTING a virus. The virus will still get into your body either way. It just reduces your symptoms and the ability of the virus to replicate (if the vaccine is effective, that is). Of course in some viruses, as with dengue fever and the vaccine trials for the original SARS, being infected once actually makes the symptoms worse if you are infected again.
This worried me at first with the vaccine. But then I realized that if it were to happen with Covid the same antibody enhancement effect would happen after natural infection OR vaccine, and my chance of avoiding natural infection indefinitely was pretty much zero.
Does anyone know if subsequent infections tend to be worse? I am still a little nervous about this enhancement effect occurring with new variants. I'm vaxx'd, boosted (1) and had Covid (probably Omicron) in April. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has had multiple infections how that went for you ....
It got worse each time and now i have long covid... this is with "healthy eating and supplements and blah blah blah".
Sorry to hear that you are suffering from long covid. I have a viral illness in June 2020 that resulted in post viral fatigue syndrome for 6ish months, but the illness itself was very mild. Basically a headache and extreme fatigue, which then took months to resolve. (Tested negative at the time but still think it might have been Covid). Then my bout with Omicron in April was like the worst flu ever had, but resolved with no significant after effects.
Is post viral fatigue basically the same as long Covid? I had a few months of daily headaches, fatigue, facial pain, twitching, vertigo, brain fog etc. No lung issues, more neurological type things.
Those are my exact symptoms... so much fatigue and brain fog. When I had it the first time it was just a really bad cough that felt like I smoked 40 packs of cigarettes a day. When I had it the 2nd and 3rd times it was like flu on steroids (which was Christmas of 2021), that's when the lingering reduced lung capacity, fatigue and fog came.
ETA- I'm fully vaxxed and boosted as well as pretty healthy according to medical markers (slight HBP controlled by meds and diet). I agree there seems to be no rhyme or reason to long covid, but I FULLY believe the science behind the fact that I would be on a ventilator or worse the 2nd or 3rd time I caught it without vaccination, which is what they are supposed to do. 🤷♀️5 -
siberiantarragon wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Nobody claims the vaccine is perfect.
They did originally. They said it was over 95% effective originally which is about as close to perfect as you get with vaccines. Now they can't even give us a number. Also, remember they originally claimed COVID mutated slowly and mutations were not expected to significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? Believe the science, whatever it is this week.Despite mutations in the virus it does reduce your chances of catching it and greatly reduce the chances of severe disease if you do
No vaccine reduces your chance of GETTING a virus. The virus will still get into your body either way. It just reduces your symptoms and the ability of the virus to replicate (if the vaccine is effective, that is). Of course in some viruses, as with dengue fever and the vaccine trials for the original SARS, being infected once actually makes the symptoms worse if you are infected again.
This worried me at first with the vaccine. But then I realized that if it were to happen with Covid the same antibody enhancement effect would happen after natural infection OR vaccine, and my chance of avoiding natural infection indefinitely was pretty much zero.
Does anyone know if subsequent infections tend to be worse? I am still a little nervous about this enhancement effect occurring with new variants. I'm vaxx'd, boosted (1) and had Covid (probably Omicron) in April. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has had multiple infections how that went for you ....
Anecdotally (i.e., based on folks I know), it's been somewhat variable whether it's worse or not as bad.
I suspect that these results are shaped not just by genetic characteristics of the basic virus itself, but also by
* the variant (similar or more different),
* the timing vs. previous vax/infection,
* general state of health of the person at point of infection (maybe even whether they've had some other bug recently, are well rested/nourished, more or less highly stressed in other ways at the time, etc.),
* viral load at the point of infection (I've read suggestions that if one gets a big whopping dose of viral particles all at once, the infection can be worse than if a smaller load, but that's just my understanding, not an authoritative opinion for which I can provide research evidence).
* who knows what else?4 -
I currently have Covid, kicked off 9 days ago with a throat tickle, graduated to razor throat and cough, body aches, and tiredness. 9 days later and I feel like I've only gotten better to a point. I'm exhausted. I've not left the house, I managed 2 full days of work from home (in PJs, on laptop in living room, non-strenuous work) and I could just go to sleep at any time. I have lost the cough for the most part, and I still have a bit of a stuffy nose but I am just completely, utterly wiped.
I'm also very high risk (immune suppressed, obese etc) and I cannot even begin to imagine where I'd be without the vax (I've had 4, was due for #4 when I got sick). Husband, who has T1 diabetes, asthma and hyper tension - all high risk factors - got off way lighter than me and has fully recovered aside from a little lingering cough.12 -
Well, I threw up my hands and got the 2nd Pfizer booster (shot #4). IMU, the "available to over 50" CDC guidance recently turned into "recommended for over 50", and I'm certainly over 50, as well as having other risk (early COPD, but asymptomatic).
I'd been thinking I'd wait for a more variant-attuned alternative, but best guess is that it won't be here until Fall (though I recently heard maybe on a faster track than initially expected - don't have details).
Best guess also would be that they'd suggest a new variant injection not happen until 2-3 months after the basic one, so I don't think I'm introducing a lot of time-slack into getting a future variant one, but I could be wrong. 🤷♀️
BTW, near zero side effects from #4 for me, I think. I can feel a very slightly tender spot on upper arm if I push hard on it, but that's about it. NBD.
Thanks for posting this. I too am taking seriously the over 50 advisory. However I have a 2-week trip the last half of September for which having that short term antibody flood would be really good. So I’m still thinking about pushing to the end of August for my 4th shot. I doubt the new formulation will be available by then.
5 -
My mom & her husband, both in their 80’s, were each in medical crisis (heart failure & kidney stones) when they got COVID from a caregiver. It was really terrifying. Had to cancel the home health aide they truly needed. They’re recovering now and much better able to fend for themselves but still testing positive. The heart failure situation is still bad though. Not out of the woods 😕
ETA: despite being heavily exposed up until they tested positive, it seems my vaccines have so far been doing their job. I’ve still gone in their home but have made visits a lot shorter than I would have otherwise.9 -
Well, I threw up my hands and got the 2nd Pfizer booster (shot #4). IMU, the "available to over 50" CDC guidance recently turned into "recommended for over 50", and I'm certainly over 50, as well as having other risk (early COPD, but asymptomatic).
I'd been thinking I'd wait for a more variant-attuned alternative, but best guess is that it won't be here until Fall (though I recently heard maybe on a faster track than initially expected - don't have details).
Best guess also would be that they'd suggest a new variant injection not happen until 2-3 months after the basic one, so I don't think I'm introducing a lot of time-slack into getting a future variant one, but I could be wrong. 🤷♀️
BTW, near zero side effects from #4 for me, I think. I can feel a very slightly tender spot on upper arm if I push hard on it, but that's about it. NBD.
Thanks for posting this. I too am taking seriously the over 50 advisory. However I have a 2-week trip the last half of September for which having that short term antibody flood would be really good. So I’m still thinking about pushing to the end of August for my 4th shot. I doubt the new formulation will be available by then.
That seems very logical to me: There's a lot in this that requires individual decision making, based on situations, seems like. Some of my 50+ friends got shot #4 earlier because they had booked travel to Europe and wanted to be fully boosted for that (but got Covid in Germany despite this - fairly mild, but had to isolate in a hotel, and return to US was delayed). Other friends are immune compromised, went for the additional booster ASAP, within days of its availability. Some, like you, are holding off for various reasons that seem pretty rational.
I'd been holding off because of the "available, not recommended" thing, and because I'm pretty healthy generally, and still being pretty cautious behaviorally . . . but now we have more variants, the recommendations changed, and of course I have the early-COPD risk factor.5 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »OMG! I finally opened my last case of TP - 2019 vintage. The stock up has nothing to do with Covid, but when the pandemic hit, I was happy to have a prepper's storage closet, full larder and a victory garden going. Looks like I'm finally going to have to buy some Charmin some time in 2023.
On a more serious note, my entire reason for losing weight (6 stone) and exercising daily was because I feared obese out-of-shape me mightn't survive the virus. I finally did get Covid last month and thanks to Pfizer and a much healthier body, it was pretty much a two-day case of the sniffles.
Good for you.
I wish they would have emphasized the roll good health plays (normal weight and exercise) in fights this from day 1.
Still not doing it.
There's a terrible track record for the general public paying attention to those kind of alarms, based on what's happened to various public health measures over the last few decades. I can understand why the medical establishment would think it'd be fruitless to blow that horn.
That said, for a person to not know or realize that from pretty early on, I think they'd mostly need to be exercising willful ignorance. It didn't take long, for example, before obesity was obviously and publically flagged as a risk factor for worse infection, along with some of the metabolic conditions that are common in that context.
For sure, for someone to not realize that a sub-par diet, excess body weight, and unfitness are health risks in a more general sense . . . well, with rare exceptions they'd need to be working at avoiding the realization, seems like. I've been one of those people, in some respects. It's pretty easy to ignore a clear message one doesn't want to act on, IME.
We've seen some folks here who got that message about Covid risk and lifestyle, mentioned it when they joined MFP; some have even stuck around and succeeded.
It's a sad statement on the US population that the collective "we" just want a pill or shot to take care of an issue rather than taking reasonable personal responsibility to help mitigate a potential health issue. Sure getting the shots is important, but would be nice to also see some personal ownership instead of an average Covid weight gain of whatever the number is.
Just me ranting.
You want people to blame themselves for getting covid? 🙄
Reread and comprehend my comment. Nowhere did I say I want people to blame themselves for getting covid.
I wish people would take personal responsibility for their health instead of wanting to rely on a drug to take care of them. Good personal health habits, supplementing a drug when needed, result in better outcomes from a disease, illness, injury in virtually all situations. Too many people don't want to make the effort/change to achieve these better outcomes.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »OMG! I finally opened my last case of TP - 2019 vintage. The stock up has nothing to do with Covid, but when the pandemic hit, I was happy to have a prepper's storage closet, full larder and a victory garden going. Looks like I'm finally going to have to buy some Charmin some time in 2023.
On a more serious note, my entire reason for losing weight (6 stone) and exercising daily was because I feared obese out-of-shape me mightn't survive the virus. I finally did get Covid last month and thanks to Pfizer and a much healthier body, it was pretty much a two-day case of the sniffles.
Good for you.
I wish they would have emphasized the roll good health plays (normal weight and exercise) in fights this from day 1.
Still not doing it.
There's a terrible track record for the general public paying attention to those kind of alarms, based on what's happened to various public health measures over the last few decades. I can understand why the medical establishment would think it'd be fruitless to blow that horn.
That said, for a person to not know or realize that from pretty early on, I think they'd mostly need to be exercising willful ignorance. It didn't take long, for example, before obesity was obviously and publically flagged as a risk factor for worse infection, along with some of the metabolic conditions that are common in that context.
For sure, for someone to not realize that a sub-par diet, excess body weight, and unfitness are health risks in a more general sense . . . well, with rare exceptions they'd need to be working at avoiding the realization, seems like. I've been one of those people, in some respects. It's pretty easy to ignore a clear message one doesn't want to act on, IME.
We've seen some folks here who got that message about Covid risk and lifestyle, mentioned it when they joined MFP; some have even stuck around and succeeded.
It's a sad statement on the US population that the collective "we" just want a pill or shot to take care of an issue rather than taking reasonable personal responsibility to help mitigate a potential health issue. Sure getting the shots is important, but would be nice to also see some personal ownership instead of an average Covid weight gain of whatever the number is.
Just me ranting.
You want people to blame themselves for getting covid? 🙄
Reread and comprehend my comment. Nowhere did I say I want people to blame themselves for getting covid.
I wish people would take personal responsibility for their health instead of wanting to rely on a drug to take care of them. Good personal health habits, supplementing a drug when needed, result in better outcomes from a disease, illness, injury in virtually all situations. Too many people don't want to make the effort/change to achieve these better outcomes.
But the thread is about covid... so again re read what I said.3 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Nobody claims the vaccine is perfect.
They did originally. They said it was over 95% effective originally which is about as close to perfect as you get with vaccines. Now they can't even give us a number. Also, remember they originally claimed COVID mutated slowly and mutations were not expected to significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? Believe the science, whatever it is this week.Despite mutations in the virus it does reduce your chances of catching it and greatly reduce the chances of severe disease if you do
No vaccine reduces your chance of GETTING a virus. The virus will still get into your body either way. It just reduces your symptoms and the ability of the virus to replicate (if the vaccine is effective, that is). Of course in some viruses, as with dengue fever and the vaccine trials for the original SARS, being infected once actually makes the symptoms worse if you are infected again.
This worried me at first with the vaccine. But then I realized that if it were to happen with Covid the same antibody enhancement effect would happen after natural infection OR vaccine, and my chance of avoiding natural infection indefinitely was pretty much zero.
Does anyone know if subsequent infections tend to be worse? I am still a little nervous about this enhancement effect occurring with new variants. I'm vaxx'd, boosted (1) and had Covid (probably Omicron) in April. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has had multiple infections how that went for you ....
It got worse each time and now i have long covid... this is with "healthy eating and supplements and blah blah blah".
Sorry to hear that you are suffering from long covid. I have a viral illness in June 2020 that resulted in post viral fatigue syndrome for 6ish months, but the illness itself was very mild. Basically a headache and extreme fatigue, which then took months to resolve. (Tested negative at the time but still think it might have been Covid). Then my bout with Omicron in April was like the worst flu ever had, but resolved with no significant after effects.
Is post viral fatigue basically the same as long Covid? I had a few months of daily headaches, fatigue, facial pain, twitching, vertigo, brain fog etc. No lung issues, more neurological type things.
Those are my exact symptoms... so much fatigue and brain fog. When I had it the first time it was just a really bad cough that felt like I smoked 40 packs of cigarettes a day. When I had it the 2nd and 3rd times it was like flu on steroids (which was Christmas of 2021), that's when the lingering reduced lung capacity, fatigue and fog came.
ETA- I'm fully vaxxed and boosted as well as pretty healthy according to medical markers (slight HBP controlled by meds and diet). I agree there seems to be no rhyme or reason to long covid, but I FULLY believe the science behind the fact that I would be on a ventilator or worse the 2nd or 3rd time I caught it without vaccination, which is what they are supposed to do. 🤷♀️
All the best - hopefully yours resolves eventually as mine did. I had a round of steroids which I think helped? Either that or it just ran its course.2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »siberiantarragon wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Nobody claims the vaccine is perfect.
They did originally. They said it was over 95% effective originally which is about as close to perfect as you get with vaccines. Now they can't even give us a number. Also, remember they originally claimed COVID mutated slowly and mutations were not expected to significantly reduce the efficacy of the vaccine? Believe the science, whatever it is this week.Despite mutations in the virus it does reduce your chances of catching it and greatly reduce the chances of severe disease if you do
No vaccine reduces your chance of GETTING a virus. The virus will still get into your body either way. It just reduces your symptoms and the ability of the virus to replicate (if the vaccine is effective, that is). Of course in some viruses, as with dengue fever and the vaccine trials for the original SARS, being infected once actually makes the symptoms worse if you are infected again.
This worried me at first with the vaccine. But then I realized that if it were to happen with Covid the same antibody enhancement effect would happen after natural infection OR vaccine, and my chance of avoiding natural infection indefinitely was pretty much zero.
Does anyone know if subsequent infections tend to be worse? I am still a little nervous about this enhancement effect occurring with new variants. I'm vaxx'd, boosted (1) and had Covid (probably Omicron) in April. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has had multiple infections how that went for you ....
It got worse each time and now i have long covid... this is with "healthy eating and supplements and blah blah blah".
Sorry to hear that you are suffering from long covid. I have a viral illness in June 2020 that resulted in post viral fatigue syndrome for 6ish months, but the illness itself was very mild. Basically a headache and extreme fatigue, which then took months to resolve. (Tested negative at the time but still think it might have been Covid). Then my bout with Omicron in April was like the worst flu ever had, but resolved with no significant after effects.
Is post viral fatigue basically the same as long Covid? I had a few months of daily headaches, fatigue, facial pain, twitching, vertigo, brain fog etc. No lung issues, more neurological type things.
Those are my exact symptoms... so much fatigue and brain fog. When I had it the first time it was just a really bad cough that felt like I smoked 40 packs of cigarettes a day. When I had it the 2nd and 3rd times it was like flu on steroids (which was Christmas of 2021), that's when the lingering reduced lung capacity, fatigue and fog came.
ETA- I'm fully vaxxed and boosted as well as pretty healthy according to medical markers (slight HBP controlled by meds and diet). I agree there seems to be no rhyme or reason to long covid, but I FULLY believe the science behind the fact that I would be on a ventilator or worse the 2nd or 3rd time I caught it without vaccination, which is what they are supposed to do. 🤷♀️
All the best - hopefully yours resolves eventually as mine did. I had a round of steroids which I think helped? Either that or it just ran its course.
Thank you and hopefully 🙏3 -
One size doesn't fit all for a covid long hauler. My unvaxed friends had it 3 times and ended up in the ICU on round 3. One of them lost their hearing and suffers with vertigo.
"Sensorineural hearing loss. Hearing loss caused by damage to the inner ear or the nerve from the ear to the brain. This type of hearing loss is permanent. Vestibular dysfunction: Problems with balance." The other one is on oxygen now. Neither one disabled, a senior or had underlying health conditions. They're downhill skiers and hikers in the summer.
I have vaxed relatives who've had it twice. It's been over 6 months and they feel like they have mono. They push themselves for work but return exhausted. They throw themselves onto the bed and take a nap as soon as they hit the door.
When this thread started, mods said keep it out of debate by remaining polite and respectful. It's been very helpful all along the way. I've been working for over two years to gain my fitness back. I'm not suffering with anxiety or wringing my hands. I don't care about the national debate. I don't understand any kind of agenda to make others feel guilt, shame and humiliation for getting vaccines. May your strong immune system support you all the days of your life. If it doesn't, don't worry. We promise to care about you, too.10 -
fatty2begone wrote: »I have had covid twice. The 1st time November 2020 extreme headaches, with most every other symptom except difficulty breathing. I would say I was in bed sick for about 6 days. It took a couple months to get my stamina back to normal level. Just plain tired a big portion of the time.
I had covid again December 2021 (Most likely Omicron) and had a slight sore throat and runny nose for a couple days.
My husband contracted again at the end of January 2022 (family gathering, believe brother had it and spread to other family members). I never caught that time. There were 11 adults and 3 kids at the gathering. None of the kids caught it, and 5 adults caught it. (Just weird how it goes to some and not the others. BTW out of the 5 adults getting covid, 2 were vaxxed the other 3 unvaxxed. Others who did not get it were 3 vaxxed and 3 unvaxxed.)
My husband and I had covid at the same time the other prior times. His last experience with covid was loss of taste. Otherwise he didnt have any other symptoms. His taste returned.
Neither of us are vaxxed. Based upon information we have researched, we believe it is/was the best decision for us. As you can tell from above comment, we have family vaxxed and unvaxxed. His parents were both vaxxed (father passed from covid although he was fully vaxxed and 1 booster). My father 85, not vaxxed had covid and suffered the flu/cold symptoms for about 10 days + loss of smell. Fortunately he did not have any breathing issues. He never had long covid even though he is in the high category. (health and age)
There is such a wide variance in severity and contracting the virus. There is so much scientific evidence that contradicts itself from one study to the next. I honestly don't know what "science" is to be taken as factual science. This virus doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason which might be part of the reason.
Everyone should make their own decision and hope we all make the best one for our own self.
I have enjoyed reading the thread quietly from my arm chair.
I am not an antivaxxer. I dont think there were long enough trials or studies for this. (I get it was considered a health emergency). At this point, I believe I have made the right choice for myself.
Stay healthy and happy!
Your argument might have had merit in January 2020. In fact, I was glad that I was not eligible until spring 2020. I get not wanting to be first in line.
However, now that it is July 2022 with over 12 billion doses administered world wide, there is plenty of data.18 -
@kshama2001 However, now that it is July 2022 with over 12 billion doses administered world wide, there is plenty of data.[/quote]
I am not trying to persuade or dissuade anyone from being vaxxed or not vaxxed. I was stating my personal experience. I believe I have made a wise choice for myself. I hope your choice is wise for you too.
As far as plenty of data, I stick to my point the scientific evidence contradicts itself from one study to the next. I have seen plenty of good and bad about the vax or not vax.
I respect your opinion and I hope you can respect mine. For every good "scientific study" there is a counter bad "scientific study". I fortunately am healthy and appear to be doing fine unvaxxed. Will that change?, I pray not. I also pray that you stay healthy vaxxed.
5 -
As far as plenty of data, I stick to my point the scientific evidence contradicts itself from one study to the next. I have seen plenty of good and bad about the vax or not vax.
This claim often seems brought up by people who are against something widely accepted by scientific consensus.
In this case Covid vaccines - in other cases, other vaccines, or alcohol consumption, smoking, or weight management or BP control etc etc
Whereas, no, there really isnt equal evidence supporting not getting vaxxed vs getting vaxxed ( or BP control vs no control etc)
Very rarely do studies of an accepted thing like Covid vaccination contradict each other on the basic premise of getting vaxxed or not.
What they do is offer new insights or variations of opinion on the detail - ages for vaccines types, vaccine spacings, vaccine brand combinations etc
That totally isnt the same as evidence for vaccinating or not vaccinating
Just like, for example, new BP studies might give new insights on dosages for ages, brand combinations with other medications, what level to intervene at etc.
Totally not the same as evidence for controlling BP vs 200/100 is fine ,do nothing.
15 -
fatty2begone wrote: »I am not trying to persuade or dissuade anyone from being vaxxed or not vaxxed. I was stating my personal experience. I believe I have made a wise choice for myself. I hope your choice is wise for you too.
As far as plenty of data, I stick to my point the scientific evidence contradicts itself from one study to the next. I have seen plenty of good and bad about the vax or not vax.
I respect your opinion and I hope you can respect mine. For every good "scientific study" there is a counter bad "scientific study". I fortunately am healthy and appear to be doing fine unvaxxed. Will that change?, I pray not. I also pray that you stay healthy vaxxed.
Confirmation bias is real. 👍8 -
I will quietly go back to reading the posts in my arm chair and keep my thoughts and experiences to myself. I have been respectful in my BIAS opinion and you have been mostly respectful.
In the end, I hope all of us have made the best decisions for ourselves. I guess time will tell.
Stay healthy and happy.6 -
fatty2begone wrote: »I will quietly go back to reading the posts in my arm chair and keep my thoughts and experiences to myself. I have been respectful in my BIAS opinion and you have been mostly respectful.
In the end, I hope all of us have made the best decisions for ourselves. I guess time will tell.
Stay healthy and happy.
I think that's probably a good idea. The overwhelming majority of people posting will disagree with you...and as far as the moderation of this thread it has been heavily weighted toward doing-the-right-and-recommended-thing.
There have been hundreds - maybe thousands - of actual scientific reviews of the data from hundreds of millions of vaccinated people - a big chunk of whom would have likely died without the vaccination.
There have been no huge surprises with the current most-used vaccines other than just how well they do work to keep people out of the hospital (the mRNA ones.)12 -
So my time has finally come. Tested positive for Covid last night. Feels like a cold on steroids. The sore throat is the worst part followed by the cough and congestion. Also not sleeping well. Took me until about 3am to sleep for longer then 15-20 minutes at a time. Even that was only 1.5 hours.
Hopefully things won't get worse as I am vaxxed and single boosted. Just frustrated because I had so much to do this weekend and most of it was out of the house. So all of that ends up getting pushed back. I start a new job on the 8th and am moving to a new state by the end of September. I don't have time for this.19 -
It's really spiking here right now. A lot of folks are out of work with it and even tho my county is still at medium level per CDC, I think it's capturing maybe half the data from home tests etc. What's interesting to me is the level of complacency now around so many cases. Last year if we had this many folks out from work we would be freaking out. this year. Not even gonna mandate masks. Personally I am masking and being careful. Hoping for the Omicron variant booster sooner vs later.7
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fatty2begone wrote: »I will quietly go back to reading the posts in my arm chair and keep my thoughts and experiences to myself. I have been respectful in my BIAS opinion and you have been mostly respectful.
In the end, I hope all of us have made the best decisions for ourselves. I guess time will tell.
Stay healthy and happy.
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