Do you NEED to deadlift?

nossmf wrote: »

Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀

claireychn074 wrote: »

nossmf wrote: »

Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀

I agree with this.

For those who don't deadlift themselves or don't have their clients deadlift, what type of replacement do you use? If any?

I'm one to think that hinging is vital but doesn't have to be done by traditional deadlifting. Just interested in the conversation.

ninerbuff wrote: »

michael6186 wrote: »

claireychn074 wrote: »

nossmf wrote: »

Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀

I agree with this.

For those who don't deadlift themselves or don't have their clients deadlift, what type of replacement do you use? If any?

I'm one to think that hinging is vital but doesn't have to be done by traditional deadlifting. Just interested in the conversation.

Squats, single leg deadlifts, kettlebell swings, etc. There are a lot of exercises you can do without big loads. You can do deadlifts in general with light loads as well. Again, if I have a client over 50 doing a deadlift as variation that they may want in their program, it's usually a rack deadlift where they don't have to come off the floor but start the dead lift from just below their knees.


A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

This sounds a lot like me. I use an XBar 3 imitation w/ bands that are like Rogue Monster bands to deadlift. At the most, it's like 150 lbs tops -- certainly not heavy.

But I'll also do 35kg KB swings (pretty heavy, even for a 195 lb guy like me).

I also love to do Pendulum single leg deadlifts too with the heavier KBs (my right and left knee have huge discrepancies in strength due to a dodgy right knee). It's good to hear a trainer say you don't have to lift super heavy to get some benefits. My son (who is 29 and really strong) mocks me incessantly, pesky brat! "What you do really isn't lifting...". How did I raise such an obnoxious kid! I ask myself that often. 🤣

CeeBeeSlim wrote: »

@ninerbuff @MikePfirrman @michael6186

Can you expand on what “traditional deadlifting” is? Or what is the “safest” deadlift? I’m no way close to your leagues (57, female and JUST yesterday increased to a 70lb deadlift - 2 35lb dumbbells and by rep 10 it was challenging).

I have a twitchy back, don’t think deadlifts are an issue but whenever I think I should remove them from my routine - OTHER deadlifts are suggested, which I don’t understand. I thought if you were going to stop deadlifting, that means ALL deadlifting, so seeing suggestions like the RDL or the trap bar deadlifts confuse me. I’ve read up on American deadlifts, conventional deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts - they’re not all equal, I guess? Is there a safest deadlift?

I'm not a trainer, so I'm not the best to give advice.

I did some research on what you were asking (just to know because some of the variations were new to me as well). To me, as someone that's certainly not a specialist in the deadlift, they just look like piecemeal variations of the standard deadlift. Some looked like they were breaking down pieces of it and others emphasizing the hamstring more.

No matter what deadlift you're doing, it's the same concepts in a safe lift -- flat back, hip hinge.

I row as my choice of cardio. Studying the rowing stroke (although I'm limited to machine rowing) probably has led me to a much better understanding of the deadlift. The rowing stroke (done right, not like 99% of gym members do incorrectly) is more or less a deadlift into a clean on a rower. Similar to the deadlift, very easy to get injured if done incorrectly (and I did when I first started).

I'd just say keep at what you're doing and keep using lighter weights. I wouldn't worry too much about the variations. They look, to me, like adding in complexity where it's not necessary. Just my two cents.

nossmf wrote: »

Not complexity, but rather pieces of the whole, or emphasizing different portions of the whole. For example, the rack deadlift is basically just doing the final few inches of the traditional deadlift, skipping the whole "lifting off the ground" portion. Meanwhile, a deficit deadlift is a regular deadlift but with your feet elevated a couple inches, effectively increasing the range of motion at the bottom.

She also asked about stiff legged deadlifts. When I looked at those, I thought the same thing as this article states. You're asking for injury.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-the-worst-way-to-deadlift/

My grandmother was still getting speeding tickets into her 90's. Not sure I want to follow THAT example, lol.

SherryTeach wrote: »

To keep it in perspective my grandmother lived to age 96 without setting foot in a gym. She mowed her own lawn until age 92 and managed all the physical activities needed to care for her home and herself. She ate a healthy diet and maintained a normal weight. I’m using her as my example.

Yes, my mother is very active. If she ends up in a nursing home, it will be because she fell off a ladder while cleaning gutters. (Don't get me started >.<)

OTOH, my partner's mother did end up in a nursing home. She was very sedentary, didn't do her PT exercises, and was eventually unable to go to the bathroom unassisted. She kept doing less and less, and eventually needed two people to get her on and off the toilet, a sad example of Use It or Lose It.

I get why older folks skip the deadlift to avoid injury.

That said, I find it very valuable at 61. I deadlift about 3 times a month. Not heavy because I don’t have the strength- 1 rm is probably around 300 (estimated because I don’t really test 1rm).

Nothing has made me more aware of my body when doing everyday movements. I was the classic bend from the waist and lift the box person. Now, I am careful to bend from my knees, straighten my back etc. so it has helped me avoid injury in everyday situations- not because of strength but because of my thought processes.

Onedaywriter wrote: »

I get why older folks skip the deadlift to avoid injury.

That said, I find it very valuable at 61. I deadlift about 3 times a month. Not heavy because I don’t have the strength- 1 rm is probably around 300 (estimated because I don’t really test 1rm).

Nothing has made me more aware of my body when doing everyday movements. I was the classic bend from the waist and lift the box person. Now, I am careful to bend from my knees, straighten my back etc. so it has helped me avoid injury in everyday situations- not because of strength but because of my thought processes.

I get that, too (the bolded). But here's the confounding part, for me: I know a lot of older folks who skip a lot of things out of fear of injury. Some - a fair percentage in my circle - become long-term . . . victims? . . . of that way of thinking - the fears and low self-expectations.

It's hard to figure out how to find a personal balance. I can still take on new things, and continue old ones, pretty much as I did when younger.

But injury does seem to have a higher cost for me, as I age: I detrain a little faster, heal a little slower, so any inability to exercise (or to do certain forms of exercise) is a bigger setback than when I was younger. Then, regain is a little slower overall, plus with a necessarily little-slower ramp-up to avoid re-injury. (I'm 66, didn't start being regularly active until my mid/late 40s.)

These are not big things individually, but they conspire, y'know - amplify each others' effects.

OTOH, stopping activities (or not taking on new and useful ones) has a cost, too . . . from what I've observed in others, a pretty big one. (Sometimes it's unavoidable because of true-obstacle disease, injury, or other physical issues . . . but not always. Sometimes it's fear based - or discouragement based - just giving up.

I don't do much leg weight work, personally, because it's too much leg emphasis for me on top of my more-enjoyed "cardio" that accumulates a lot of leg fatigue and muscle-recovery need. (I row and cycle, pretty leggy.) In the off season, I usually deadlift some, but more of an endurance-reps kind of format, i.e., lower weight, higher rep. I suspect that's also less risky, but heck, I'm not a personal trainer, what do I know? 😆

I feel like vulnerabilities are somewhat individual, vs. totally an age thing. Consequently, I don't like age assumptions**. Again, what do I know, though?

** Which makes me feel a little confused by @ninerbuff's (oversimplifying here) seeming to say "old people shouldn't deadlift, except for the ones who can/should".

No you don't need to deadlift

But it is a fantastic movement for all around body strength and for my money shoulder health as well.

As for age and deadlifting I totally disagree.

If you are healthy with no prior injuries that prevent you from doing the movement--why not.

Teach them how to do the movement correctly from the start--by using an empty bar if needed--and you are good to go.

Personally,

I would have them stick with the classic Bill Starr 5x5 program--until they really get the form down.

I personally think most injuries happen when you try to do too many reps in the deads---ask me how I know!

Plus,

One area that seldom gets mentioned is the inner thigh--when the weights get heavy--or you get tired--and the knees start turning in--you need to get those inner thighs stronger.