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Do you NEED to deadlift?

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Replies

  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,311 Member
    nossmf wrote: »
    Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

    Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

    Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

    There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,457 Member
    nossmf wrote: »
    Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

    Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

    Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

    There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀
    Yes opinions will vary. Experience does as well and my opinion comes from the years of watching hundreds of injuries happening from various lifts of people over 50 and the recover (or non recovery) from them. The 2 I've come to run into the most are low back injury and shoulder injury. And the normal exercises attributed to them are deadlifts and flat barbell benching. Hence I steer clients away from them if possible. IMO, alternatives are much better than risking a higher chance of getting injured. Yes load, rest and recovery are important, but because it only takes a minor mistake on execution that can cause injury, I'll take a different approach.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • michael6186
    michael6186 Posts: 27 Member
    nossmf wrote: »
    Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

    Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

    Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

    There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀

    I agree with this.

    For those who don't deadlift themselves or don't have their clients deadlift, what type of replacement do you use? If any?

    I'm one to think that hinging is vital but doesn't have to be done by traditional deadlifting. Just interested in the conversation.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,457 Member
    edited June 2022
    nossmf wrote: »
    Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

    Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

    Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

    There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀

    I agree with this.

    For those who don't deadlift themselves or don't have their clients deadlift, what type of replacement do you use? If any?

    I'm one to think that hinging is vital but doesn't have to be done by traditional deadlifting. Just interested in the conversation.
    Squats, single leg deadlifts, kettlebell swings, etc. There are a lot of exercises you can do without big loads. You can do deadlifts in general with light loads as well. Again, if I have a client over 50 doing a deadlift as variation that they may want in their program, it's usually a rack deadlift where they don't have to come off the floor but start the dead lift from just below their knees.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    nossmf wrote: »
    Now, to ask the corollary question: should I STOP deadlifting?

    Age 45 male, been lifting consistently for almost 13 years now, deadlifts are part of my weekly plan. Current fitness goals are primarily keeping functional fitness as I age, with a secondary goal of looking good for my age. No sports, no competitions, work a desk job with a long commute. I currently enjoy doing deadlifts.

    Given the reluctance of multiple trainers in this thread to START adding deadlifts, should I be thinking about STOP including deadlifts?

    There are some v experienced PTs on here and I rate and respect their advice. But as in all things, there are different opinions. I see a sports specialist physiotherapist, who himself has won medals in different sports. The first thing he does with his elderly patients is to get them deadlifting. When I first went in I was blown away to see a lady in her 70s doing deadlifts - maybe not heavy, but apparently a couple of months before she could hardly walk owing to back pain. I think the issue with deadlifts is that they can cause injury when done incorrectly - but so can many things. My worst sports injury came from swimming - not competitive martial arts or weightlifting. Good form, rest and recovery, and appropriate loading are crucial - whatever age we are. If you enjoy them, do them well and don’t suffer pain then I don’t think age should be a barrier. Just a 48 year old’s perspective 😀

    I agree with this.

    For those who don't deadlift themselves or don't have their clients deadlift, what type of replacement do you use? If any?

    I'm one to think that hinging is vital but doesn't have to be done by traditional deadlifting. Just interested in the conversation.
    Squats, single leg deadlifts, kettlebell swings, etc. There are a lot of exercises you can do without big loads. You can do deadlifts in general with light loads as well. Again, if I have a client over 50 doing a deadlift as variation that they may want in their program, it's usually a rack deadlift where they don't have to come off the floor but start the dead lift from just below their knees.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    This sounds a lot like me. I use an XBar 3 imitation w/ bands that are like Rogue Monster bands to deadlift. At the most, it's like 150 lbs tops -- certainly not heavy.

    But I'll also do 35kg KB swings (pretty heavy, even for a 195 lb guy like me).

    I also love to do Pendulum single leg deadlifts too with the heavier KBs (my right and left knee have huge discrepancies in strength due to a dodgy right knee). It's good to hear a trainer say you don't have to lift super heavy to get some benefits. My son (who is 29 and really strong) mocks me incessantly, pesky brat! "What you do really isn't lifting...". How did I raise such an obnoxious kid! I ask myself that often. 🤣
  • CeeBeeSlim
    CeeBeeSlim Posts: 1,261 Member
    @ninerbuff @MikePfirrman @michael6186

    Can you expand on what “traditional deadlifting” is? Or what is the “safest” deadlift? I’m no way close to your leagues (57, female and JUST yesterday increased to a 70lb deadlift - 2 35lb dumbbells and by rep 10 it was challenging).

    I have a twitchy back, don’t think deadlifts are an issue but whenever I think I should remove them from my routine - OTHER deadlifts are suggested, which I don’t understand. I thought if you were going to stop deadlifting, that means ALL deadlifting, so seeing suggestions like the RDL or the trap bar deadlifts confuse me. I’ve read up on American deadlifts, conventional deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts - they’re not all equal, I guess? Is there a safest deadlift?
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    @ninerbuff @MikePfirrman @michael6186

    Can you expand on what “traditional deadlifting” is? Or what is the “safest” deadlift? I’m no way close to your leagues (57, female and JUST yesterday increased to a 70lb deadlift - 2 35lb dumbbells and by rep 10 it was challenging).

    I have a twitchy back, don’t think deadlifts are an issue but whenever I think I should remove them from my routine - OTHER deadlifts are suggested, which I don’t understand. I thought if you were going to stop deadlifting, that means ALL deadlifting, so seeing suggestions like the RDL or the trap bar deadlifts confuse me. I’ve read up on American deadlifts, conventional deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts - they’re not all equal, I guess? Is there a safest deadlift?

    I'm not a trainer, so I'm not the best to give advice.

    I did some research on what you were asking (just to know because some of the variations were new to me as well). To me, as someone that's certainly not a specialist in the deadlift, they just look like piecemeal variations of the standard deadlift. Some looked like they were breaking down pieces of it and others emphasizing the hamstring more.

    No matter what deadlift you're doing, it's the same concepts in a safe lift -- flat back, hip hinge.

    I row as my choice of cardio. Studying the rowing stroke (although I'm limited to machine rowing) probably has led me to a much better understanding of the deadlift. The rowing stroke (done right, not like 99% of gym members do incorrectly) is more or less a deadlift into a clean on a rower. Similar to the deadlift, very easy to get injured if done incorrectly (and I did when I first started).

    I'd just say keep at what you're doing and keep using lighter weights. I wouldn't worry too much about the variations. They look, to me, like adding in complexity where it's not necessary. Just my two cents.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 8,697 Member
    Not complexity, but rather pieces of the whole, or emphasizing different portions of the whole. For example, the rack deadlift is basically just doing the final few inches of the traditional deadlift, skipping the whole "lifting off the ground" portion. Meanwhile, a deficit deadlift is a regular deadlift but with your feet elevated a couple inches, effectively increasing the range of motion at the bottom.
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    nossmf wrote: »
    Not complexity, but rather pieces of the whole, or emphasizing different portions of the whole. For example, the rack deadlift is basically just doing the final few inches of the traditional deadlift, skipping the whole "lifting off the ground" portion. Meanwhile, a deficit deadlift is a regular deadlift but with your feet elevated a couple inches, effectively increasing the range of motion at the bottom.

    She also asked about stiff legged deadlifts. When I looked at those, I thought the same thing as this article states. You're asking for injury.

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-the-worst-way-to-deadlift/
  • SherryTeach
    SherryTeach Posts: 2,836 Member
    To keep it in perspective my grandmother lived to age 96 without setting foot in a gym. She mowed her own lawn until age 92 and managed all the physical activities needed to care for her home and herself. She ate a healthy diet and maintained a normal weight. I’m using her as my example.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 8,697 Member
    My grandmother was still getting speeding tickets into her 90's. Not sure I want to follow THAT example, lol.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,846 Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    33gail33 wrote: »
    I do deadlifts because I like them - they are pretty much my favorite lift.

    Please tell me I don't need to do squats .... :wink:

    Squats will help keep you out of the home

    https://seniorslifestylemag.com/health-well-being/how-the-squat-is-the-most-important-exercise-for-seniors/
    33gail33 wrote: »
    Damn my terrible knees and bad balance ... :neutral:

    What kind of squats do you hate the most? Note that none of the squats in the article include weight other than body weight.

    I get squats from yoga and gardening, as does my 84 yo mother, who has no problems at all getting on and off the toilet.

    Have you tried yoga for balance? You might be terrible at first, but over time will improve.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,846 Member
    To keep it in perspective my grandmother lived to age 96 without setting foot in a gym. She mowed her own lawn until age 92 and managed all the physical activities needed to care for her home and herself. She ate a healthy diet and maintained a normal weight. I’m using her as my example.

    Yes, my mother is very active. If she ends up in a nursing home, it will be because she fell off a ladder while cleaning gutters. (Don't get me started >.<)

    OTOH, my partner's mother did end up in a nursing home. She was very sedentary, didn't do her PT exercises, and was eventually unable to go to the bathroom unassisted. She kept doing less and less, and eventually needed two people to get her on and off the toilet, a sad example of Use It or Lose It.
  • michael6186
    michael6186 Posts: 27 Member
    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    @ninerbuff @MikePfirrman @michael6186

    Can you expand on what “traditional deadlifting” is? Or what is the “safest” deadlift? I’m no way close to your leagues (57, female and JUST yesterday increased to a 70lb deadlift - 2 35lb dumbbells and by rep 10 it was challenging).

    I have a twitchy back, don’t think deadlifts are an issue but whenever I think I should remove them from my routine - OTHER deadlifts are suggested, which I don’t understand. I thought if you were going to stop deadlifting, that means ALL deadlifting, so seeing suggestions like the RDL or the trap bar deadlifts confuse me. I’ve read up on American deadlifts, conventional deadlifts, stiff leg deadlifts - they’re not all equal, I guess? Is there a safest deadlift?

    I'm not a trainer, so I'm not the best to give advice.

    I did some research on what you were asking (just to know because some of the variations were new to me as well). To me, as someone that's certainly not a specialist in the deadlift, they just look like piecemeal variations of the standard deadlift. Some looked like they were breaking down pieces of it and others emphasizing the hamstring more.

    No matter what deadlift you're doing, it's the same concepts in a safe lift -- flat back, hip hinge.

    I row as my choice of cardio. Studying the rowing stroke (although I'm limited to machine rowing) probably has led me to a much better understanding of the deadlift. The rowing stroke (done right, not like 99% of gym members do incorrectly) is more or less a deadlift into a clean on a rower. Similar to the deadlift, very easy to get injured if done incorrectly (and I did when I first started).

    I'd just say keep at what you're doing and keep using lighter weights. I wouldn't worry too much about the variations. They look, to me, like adding in complexity where it's not necessary. Just my two cents.

    So to any question like this, such as, "Do I need to deadlift?" the logical answer to me will always begin with, "It depends." and/or "for what?".

    We don't need to do anything. We want to and because we want to then the need becomes necessary.

    However, there's always another side to this equation: The natural consequences of pursuing these things that we want or the natural consequences of avoiding them.

    We don't need to "deadlift" but it's pretty safe that as human beings we need to move and hinging (deadlifting or otherwise) is a necessary component to our overall health.

    If a person can't deadlift then they should at least hinge, right? Being that the deadlift is not a necessary component to everyone's goals, no not everyone needs to.

  • Onedaywriter
    Onedaywriter Posts: 324 Member
    I get why older folks skip the deadlift to avoid injury.

    That said, I find it very valuable at 61. I deadlift about 3 times a month. Not heavy because I don’t have the strength- 1 rm is probably around 300 (estimated because I don’t really test 1rm).

    Nothing has made me more aware of my body when doing everyday movements. I was the classic bend from the waist and lift the box person. Now, I am careful to bend from my knees, straighten my back etc. so it has helped me avoid injury in everyday situations- not because of strength but because of my thought processes.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,457 Member
    I get why older folks skip the deadlift to avoid injury.

    That said, I find it very valuable at 61. I deadlift about 3 times a month. Not heavy because I don’t have the strength- 1 rm is probably around 300 (estimated because I don’t really test 1rm).

    Nothing has made me more aware of my body when doing everyday movements. I was the classic bend from the waist and lift the box person. Now, I am careful to bend from my knees, straighten my back etc. so it has helped me avoid injury in everyday situations- not because of strength but because of my thought processes.
    That's great. Like I stated earlier, I do have a couple of people over 50 deadlift with me, but they are very experienced and focused people when we train.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,724 Member
    I get why older folks skip the deadlift to avoid injury.

    That said, I find it very valuable at 61. I deadlift about 3 times a month. Not heavy because I don’t have the strength- 1 rm is probably around 300 (estimated because I don’t really test 1rm).

    Nothing has made me more aware of my body when doing everyday movements. I was the classic bend from the waist and lift the box person. Now, I am careful to bend from my knees, straighten my back etc. so it has helped me avoid injury in everyday situations- not because of strength but because of my thought processes.

    I get that, too (the bolded). But here's the confounding part, for me: I know a lot of older folks who skip a lot of things out of fear of injury. Some - a fair percentage in my circle - become long-term . . . victims? . . . of that way of thinking - the fears and low self-expectations.

    It's hard to figure out how to find a personal balance. I can still take on new things, and continue old ones, pretty much as I did when younger.

    But injury does seem to have a higher cost for me, as I age: I detrain a little faster, heal a little slower, so any inability to exercise (or to do certain forms of exercise) is a bigger setback than when I was younger. Then, regain is a little slower overall, plus with a necessarily little-slower ramp-up to avoid re-injury. (I'm 66, didn't start being regularly active until my mid/late 40s.)

    These are not big things individually, but they conspire, y'know - amplify each others' effects.

    OTOH, stopping activities (or not taking on new and useful ones) has a cost, too . . . from what I've observed in others, a pretty big one. (Sometimes it's unavoidable because of true-obstacle disease, injury, or other physical issues . . . but not always. Sometimes it's fear based - or discouragement based - just giving up.

    I don't do much leg weight work, personally, because it's too much leg emphasis for me on top of my more-enjoyed "cardio" that accumulates a lot of leg fatigue and muscle-recovery need. (I row and cycle, pretty leggy.) In the off season, I usually deadlift some, but more of an endurance-reps kind of format, i.e., lower weight, higher rep. I suspect that's also less risky, but heck, I'm not a personal trainer, what do I know? 😆

    I feel like vulnerabilities are somewhat individual, vs. totally an age thing. Consequently, I don't like age assumptions**. Again, what do I know, though?

    ** Which makes me feel a little confused by @ninerbuff's (oversimplifying here) seeming to say "old people shouldn't deadlift, except for the ones who can/should".
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,457 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »

    ** Which makes me feel a little confused by @ninerbuff's (oversimplifying here) seeming to say "old people shouldn't deadlift, except for the ones who can/should".
    Meaning people who well trained in it and haven't suffered a back injury before will likely be okay, but people who haven't had it as a regular regimen in their training don't really need to bother to learn it because the risk many times will outweigh the actual benefit since there are so many other exercises that are much safer to perform to strengthen low back and hip hinge.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • rippedwriter1
    rippedwriter1 Posts: 5 Member
    No you don't need to deadlift

    But it is a fantastic movement for all around body strength and for my money shoulder health as well.

    As for age and deadlifting I totally disagree.

    If you are healthy with no prior injuries that prevent you from doing the movement--why not.

    Teach them how to do the movement correctly from the start--by using an empty bar if needed--and you are good to go.

    Personally,

    I would have them stick with the classic Bill Starr 5x5 program--until they really get the form down.

    I personally think most injuries happen when you try to do too many reps in the deads---ask me how I know!

    Plus,

    One area that seldom gets mentioned is the inner thigh--when the weights get heavy--or you get tired--and the knees start turning in--you need to get those inner thighs stronger.

  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 8,697 Member
    I personally think most injuries happen when you try to do too many reps in the deads---ask me how I know!

    Deadlifts are the one lift I prefer to keep my reps low. I used to pursue powerlifting, always seeking to improve my 1RM on all my lifts, but these days I don't like to do fewer than 5 reps on bench or 10 reps on squat. Yet deadlifts I refuse to do more than 5 reps for fear of my form breaking down due to fatigue and inviting injury. Consequently, I alternate weeks of 5x5 with 5x2.