You Can Gain Muscle On A Calorie Deficit!!

Let me say that the OP has done a great job getting into great shape. What he's achieved is tough to do and does take a lot of discipline and dedication. I'm just disagreeing with him on muscle gain.
It's obvious in photos with higher body fat, that his musculature is much improved compared to his 25 year old pics. Just reducing that bodyfat made the muscle pop.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Did you get a DEXA or body pod done before you leaned out? It doesn't look like you gained very much muscle at all, but retained your muscle and lost the fat. /shrug. FWIW, IMO You weren't skinny fat in the beginning, you had a good base underneath, you were just overweight, simple as that. As you trained the muscle you probably added some density to it, retained it, gaining definition around the muscle from losing fat, but you certainly don't look like you gained very much LM.

Congrats on your hardwork though, you look great.

No I didnt, why would I ? Below is a pic. of when I was 25, ( along with the other pics I posted) I got married at 26 and started to gain fat soon after. But at 25 I was fully grown and at the point that I wasnt going to gain any more muscle naturally. Also I am almost 6"2 with long arms and legs, if I was just under 5"10 (the height of the avg. adult male) It would be easier to see my lean muscle gains.
Now please tell me that I wasnt "" skinny fat""

Did you know that you can add muscle as you gain weight without working out? If you ever look at most obese/ overweight people when they were young, they had small calves, but now sport calves that pro bodybuilder envy. Why? Well all that weight had to be carried. Calves grew because of the weight.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

You think he was "overfat" in those pictures?

Thinkin you might be right!

I once read a study where sedentary men that were given testosterone supplements (steroids) actually gained more muscle then men that were given a placebo while heavy weight training. Diet was the same in both groups, kind of amusing, really.

You can gain strength in a calorie deficit. Gaining muscle is pretty rare, and is limited to beginners to weight lifting, and those coming back after a long break (muscle memory). For the rest of us, we strength train during deficit to maintain lean mass and maintain or increase strength.

While I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, most people here would be considered "novice" in a strength program. I still qualify as a novice even after some time in lifting. I eat at deficit, I am losing bf% and scale weight. Will that last forever? No. But it has lasted a while and would apply to most people on this site.

No I didnt but please see the pics. Alos please show me where I ever mentioned the word strength?
You lost 10 lbs of lean mass? What did you weigh? What is your maintence for calorie intake, what was was your actual calorie intake during this time. How many grams of protein on avg. did you consume daily during this time and also what was your workout program during this time. Split, sets, reps etc.
The reason BBers bulk and cut is because it is a more efficient way to gain lean muscle. ( I never said it wasnt) But they are not drasticly over weight like myself or many others on this board.

Why are you asking for specific numbers but only using pictures for your own example? Pictures can be very deceiving, and certainly don't tell the whole story. If I take a picture of myself just after waking vs right after I've finished a heavy training session I'd look fairly different even though my stats might not have changed very much. I'm not trying to take anything away from the progress you've made, it's impressive but more importantly you seem to be happy with it, which is really what matters at the end of the day.

I think the important thing to keep in mind, is that when cutting weight, the focus should be on fat loss and not muscle gain. Regardless of how much muscle you may or may not have built when you were cutting down, it's insignificant next to the amount of fat you've lost. I do think you underestimated the amount of muscle you had gained along with fat when you were at your heaviest.

Gaining lean mass while cutting weight is extremely difficult, particularly so if you are not one or more of the following: a beginner at lifter, a former athlete off a long hiatus, very overweight. It would seem you fall into the first and third option (I'm guessing here) so gains are more likely for you than they are for someone who's low BF% and has been training regularly for a while.

At the end of the day, cut weight by eating at a deficit. Retain existing LBM with a smart lifting regime. If you gain some muscle mass in the process, whether or not random folks on the internet believe you, that's great for you. But why try to make that an expectation for others when it's extremely difficult in all but a few select situations and even then only comes in small quantities? There's a reason diets that tout "it's easy! you can lose a bajillion pounds in 42 seconds with this program" are generally unsuccessful. People have unrealistic expectations of progress and quit out of frustration. I'm genuinely happy for you given the progress you've made, I think it's fantastic. I recognize that your intent was to warn people against giving up lifting while cutting weight. That's an extremely good piece of advice. That being said I think a 'better' way to say things would be along the lines of:

To lose weight, eat at a deficit. To retain muscle mass while losing weight, eat adequate macros and implement a smart lifting program. Muscle gains during this time are possible, but unlikely in all but a few scenarios. The focus while cutting should be to maximize fat loss, and retain as much lean mass as possible. If the focus is to gain muscle mass, the appropriate way to do that is to train while eating at a calorie surplus (and getting adequate macros). The 'cost' of this is some fat gain along with the new muscle growth.

My statement has the same suggested course of action for cutting weight, but I think provides more realistic expectations to folks undertaking the routine.

Finally, why do people keep quoting the pictures? Makes scrolling through this thread a pita.

You can gain strength in a calorie deficit. Gaining muscle is pretty rare, and is limited to beginners to weight lifting, and those coming back after a long break (muscle memory). For the rest of us, we strength train during deficit to maintain lean mass and maintain or increase strength.

While I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, most people here would be considered "novice" in a strength program. I still qualify as a novice even after some time in lifting. I eat at deficit, I am losing bf% and scale weight. Will that last forever? No. But it has lasted a while and would apply to most people on this site.

Well I didnt eat at a deficit once over the last year, I ate at a surplus. I also made sure every bit of food I did eat was high in protein to make sure I was eating 1+ gram of protein for every ib. of body weight. My diet has also been high in carbs aswell.

Wait, wasn't this thread started as a way of you telling people you can gain muscle on a calorie deficit, and used yourself as an example? But you didn't eat at a deficit. So, now I'm all confused. :huh:

And there was nothing deceiving about my pics, ( I have no need to deceive any one!!!}

Then why did you say it was done on a deficit only to turn around seven pages later and admit you ate at a surplus? I'm confused. :huh:

Let me say that the OP has done a great job getting into great shape. What he's achieved is tough to do and does take a lot of discipline and dedication. I'm just disagreeing with him on muscle gain.
It's obvious in photos with higher body fat, that his musculature is much improved compared to his 25 year old pics. Just reducing that bodyfat made the muscle pop.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Thx and not to be rude but you dont have a clue about my body. My arms,upper chest, Even prior to losing weight my upper chest was skin and bone, no muscle or fat) calves, shoulders, traps ( i didnt have traps) are all larger now -74 lbs of fat than they were last March. All you have to do is compare the May 2011 pic to the August 2011 pic, ( and my arms were larger in May 2011 than they were in March 2011 at my highest weight)

Not to be rude back, but as you gained weight, it's not unlikely you gained some muscle along with it. It's not like I haven't had experience in this field for over 29 years. I don't have to know your body to tell that by your pics in May alone that you're musculature is more pronounced than when you were 25 and it's OBVIOUS you're at a higher weight.
And really 74lbs in 90 days WITHOUT losing any muscle mass? Let's look at it mathematically. That's 259,000 fat calories. Divided by 90 days (you stated from May to August) that's a deficit of 2877 calories ON TOP OF whatever else you were burning. And somehow you ADDED muscle while doing this. Scientifically and mathematically, it doesn't work.
Sorry don't buy it.

A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

For clarity, can you tell us how much over you were going, what the exercise number was and what the deficit was after?

Why are you asking for specific numbers but only using pictures for your own example? Pictures can be very deceiving, and certainly don't tell the whole story. If I take a picture of myself just after waking vs right after I've finished a heavy training session I'd look fairly different even though my stats might not have changed very much. I'm not trying to take anything away from the progress you've made, it's impressive but more importantly you seem to be happy with it, which is really what matters at the end of the day.

I think the important thing to keep in mind, is that when cutting weight, the focus should be on fat loss and not muscle gain. Regardless of how much muscle you may or may not have built when you were cutting down, it's insignificant next to the amount of fat you've lost. I do think you underestimated the amount of muscle you had gained along with fat when you were at your heaviest.

Gaining lean mass while cutting weight is extremely difficult, particularly so if you are not one or more of the following: a beginner at lifter, a former athlete off a long hiatus, very overweight. It would seem you fall into the first and third option (I'm guessing here) so gains are more likely for you than they are for someone who's low BF% and has been training regularly for a while.

At the end of the day, cut weight by eating at a deficit. Retain existing LBM with a smart lifting regime. If you gain some muscle mass in the process, whether or not random folks on the internet believe you, that's great for you. But why try to make that an expectation for others when it's extremely difficult in all but a few select situations and even then only comes in small quantities? There's a reason diets that tout "it's easy! you can lose a bajillion pounds in 42 seconds with this program" are generally unsuccessful. People have unrealistic expectations of progress and quit out of frustration. I'm genuinely happy for you given the progress you've made, I think it's fantastic. I recognize that your intent was to warn people against giving up lifting while cutting weight. That's an extremely good piece of advice. That being said I think a 'better' way to say things would be along the lines of:

To lose weight, eat at a deficit. To retain muscle mass while losing weight, eat adequate macros and implement a smart lifting program. Muscle gains during this time are possible, but unlikely in all but a few scenarios. The focus while cutting should be to maximize fat loss, and retain as much lean mass as possible. If the focus is to gain muscle mass, the appropriate way to do that is to train while eating at a calorie surplus (and getting adequate macros). The 'cost' of this is some fat gain along with the new muscle growth.

My statement has the same suggested course of action for cutting weight, but I think provides more realistic expectations to folks undertaking the routine.

Finally, why do people keep quoting the pictures? Makes scrolling through this thread a pita.

Because I wanted to try to help her if I could. And there was nothing deceiving about my pics, ( I have no need to deceive any one!!!} I purposely used pics where I did not have a pump or just finished lifting etc., Below is a pic. when I did have a pump just to show you the difference. If I took your advice when I started I wouldnt be anywhere close to where I am now and just look like a jelly fish. Im glad I listened to they guys who knew exactly what I should do, proper split, diet, etc.

Please understand, I'm not saying that you're trying to deceive anyone (I do recognize that I said specifically that pictures can be deceiving, but I didn't mean it was intentionally so, just that it could be misinterpreted by others). I'm trying to say that I have a differing opinion than you might on how best to inform and assist others in their health and fitness goals. I do not, nor have I at any point in this post, thought that you were actively trying to lie to people or anything underhanded like that. If that's the way my post came off to you, I apologize.

My general advice to others is to do basically what you did: "To lose weight, eat at a deficit. To retain muscle mass while losing weight, eat adequate macros and implement a smart lifting program."

My main contention was that saying you can gain muscle while eating at a deficit can be misleading to folks. Lets take as an assumption that you did gain a substantial amount of muscle mass while cutting weight. This is not a normal outcome for most people out there. The vast majority of folks cannot gain muscle mass while eating at a deficit, or if they can can only gain small quantities. I happen to believe this applies to everybody, and you and I disagree in that regard, but I hope we can both agree that for the vast majority of people massive muscle gain should not be expected. The best they should be hoping for is the retention of as much existing muscle mass as possible. Since the strategies for retaining muscle on a deficit and gaining on a deficit are basically the same, why not level expectations for the worst case? If they do gain some muscle that's great for them, but they won't be disappointed that way. That was what I meant, I hope this clears up what I was trying to say some.