Meat eating vs. Vegan debate

I am a proud vegetarian myself, I don't push it onto people I just don't feel like something should die for me to eat when it doesn't need to. I love educating people though when they ask questions

Aren't you killing that plant when you're chewing on it?

Another frequent discussion amongst vegans / meat-eaters. Their argument is that plants don't have a nervous system to feel pain etc. etc.

I read an article a few weeks back that said they've determined that peas communicate, and therefore could be considered sentient. I rolled my eyes. People have to eat SOMETHING. Please don't freak out the vegans and vegetarians by telling them peas are sentient.

Yeah, sure. I also heard that grass clippings are a warning sign to blades of grass to protect themselves.

Yep, the smell of freshly cut grass is grass calling out a warning. Plants don't have nervous systems like animals, but they do have their own versions. Look at how some plants respond to touch, touch a plant consistently on one side, and it will start growing more on the other side to get away from the obstruction. Some plants sense dowels and trellises to wrap around and climb up. Some are able to rotate and turn themselves toward light sources, and some respond to sounds. They also breathe. Plants are just as much alive as any animal.

Oh I thought the previous poster was joking! Apologies. This is fascinating.

No plant based foods contain B12 or cholesterol (which is needed to make testosterone and estrogen). Other than that, it just comes down to personal choice of whether or not you want to be vegan or a meat eater.

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I agree about it being personal choice, but there is vegan nutritional yeast, which is grown on molasses, that has B12. Or there are B12 supplements.

I think Marmite and Vegamite have high levels of B12. Never tried it myself but apparently it's used as a spread.

Where would one get cholesterol supplements that aren't animal based though?

Hehe, cholesterol supplements. And that's true. Don't we get all of our cholesterol from animals? Or can that be found in plants too?

Next time I see a hawk pluck a varmit out of a field I'll be sure to flag him down and tell him not to do that because it's "murder". I know hawks have good hearing, but so do house cats. My house cats don't listen when I give them lectures about leaving their snacks on the front porch. So, until those guys stop murdering other animals, I'm going to continue to each meat. (Within my calorie goal)

There are no benefits of meat. The reason vegans cannot "accept" your lifestyle is because it promotes murder, rape, and torture of living beings for the sole purpose of selfish human desire for taste. That is something I cannot and will not ever condone. Meat eating is cultural and that is why people get so defensive and feel under attack when all the evidence points to the lack of ethics in the choice to eat animal products. Scientific studies prove that humans do not need meat to survive and live a healthy lifestyle. Millions of vegans prove this by simply living their lives. Carnists view animals as objects and property, not creatures with thoughts or feelings or lives of their own. Carnists lack empathy and compassion, which in itself is inhuman.

Aaaaaaaand there we go. This conversation was going just fine without hyperbole, stereotypes, and assumptions.

I don't know what you're talking about. If you condone the murder of living creatures so you can say "yum, what a great steak" that's selfish and lacking empathy. No hyperbole here. Just because you're personally uncomfortable does not mean I'm wrong.

Interesting thread, but too long to go through all of it. I know these two issues (see below) were touched upon in this thread, but I am always curious about the opinions of people who opt to become vegans/vegetarians for ethical reasons. Please do not assume that I am being critical of your choice (I am not). I fully support and respect every individual's right to their own choices. I am more curious than anything.

1. Would you be willing to eat animals that are not raised for slaughter, such as wild caught seafood and/or wild caught game? Why or why not?

2. Do you use other animal products such as leather goods, wool, etc? Why or why not?

Another thing I thought about was, what would happen if in the future everyone DID stop eating meat and animal products? Baring in mind something like 95-99% of the population eat animal produce, with an ever-expanding human population, where on earth would we find the room to cultivate and grow so much food?!

Actually, it takes less resources and space to farm veggies than animals.

True ... but very soon we would be overrun by an animal population explosion. Of course, many of those animals would wind up.dying from disease and starvation ... so I guess it would balance out for a few years at a time.

Farm animals that are raised for meat are unable to survive on their own. If the entire world suddenly turned vegan, cattle (meat and dairy,) chickens, pigs, would all basically become extinct.

I was thinking more of already wild animals. But what you said also is wrong - which usually doesn't happen, actually. There are plenty of all those animals wild. Actually, wild and feral pigs are a massive problem in the south.

True. But what about animals that have been kept in the circle of being used in the industry for so long that there is the possibility they can't take care of themselves anymore? Like certain housepets for example.

In my mind, this worry about the world going vegan and suddenly being overrun by excess animals who are freed to live in the wild is nothing to worry about. Even something as simple as 'Meatless Mondays' taking off for a large part of the population is apt to drop the demand for meat. The cost of meat might go down temporarily, and then production would slack off some. I don't think the world would ever go veg*n like turning on a light switch, especially reading the many comments here from people who are meat-lovers with no intention to change.

This thread is rather long, so I was really willing to read it all and try to catch up as it keeps going.

Is the argument that humanity is not meant to eat meat or that we have evolved to the point in society that we should no longer eat meat?

I feel the same way about this as I do about religion. Do what you like, I will do my best to respect your views unless you're doing something that I am morally opposed to. I will try to remember your stance and bear that in mind, but cut me some slack if I forget.

If you try to force your way of life on me or ride me too much for not remembering some detail about how you want to live, well then I'll be the pr*ck that actively tries to piss you off and mocks you in public.

Also please pass the bacon.

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Next time I see a hawk pluck a varmit out of a field I'll be sure to flag him down and tell him not to do that because it's "murder". I know hawks have good hearing, but so do house cats. My house cats don't listen when I give them lectures about leaving their snacks on the front porch. So, until those guys stop murdering other animals, I'm going to continue to eat meat. (Within my calorie/nutritional goal)