why don't the low carb folks believe in CICO?
Replies
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blktngldhrt wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
CICO is a one size fits all.rachylouise87 wrote: »firm believer in CICO but some people are more insulin sensitive. firm believer weight loss is not a one fits all.
big believer in the below
http://www.metaboliceffect.com/hormonal-weight-loss/
http://www.metaboliceffect.com/female-effect-hormones-determine-female-fat-patterns/
Medical conditions just skew one or the other.
CICO is one size fits all, but the macro ratios that work best for you will differ person to person. Like I said above, one thing that occasionally annoys me about some low carb people here (not the sensible ones, which are most of those in this thread) is the assertion that EVERYONE would do better on lower carbs or that everyone finds that carbs trigger their hunger in the same way, etc. But the same is, of course, true in reverse when people insist that low carb is unhealthy or can't work or would be too depressing. Depends on the person.
And this is where IIFYMM comes into play.
It holds true for keto, vegan, paleo, veg, LCHF, we all have Macros and Micros just how we fill them differs.
I always find it funny when people hate on IIFYM yet they actually follow it.
Yes, I agree with all that. I interpret IIFYM as just meaning that you watch your macros, basically. By definition low carb folks do, at least low carb folks who also try to hit a general ballpark or better for their fat percentage.
And from my view, most low carbers focus on their macro ratios. Just their macros look a little different than the SAD.
Anyone who cares about their diet is going to have a diet that looks a lot different than the SAD...you don't have to low carb. My diary is open...my nutritional profile is outstanding and a far cry from the SAD, and I don't low carb at all.
Simply having a balanced diet is going to be a far cry from the SAD. To me, the comment:And from my view, most low carbers focus on their macro ratios. Just their macros look a little different than the SAD.
Implies that carbs = SAD = junk. There are a whole lot of highly nutritious carbs out there that aren't "junk"...carbs go well beyond 40 ounce Big Gulps.
I never once said junk. Never once.
I didn't say that you said it...it would appear to be implied in the statement and it's an implication that is made often by low carbers...I know a few personally, and they all think carbs are satan...they all think carbs are killing people...they're nutty.
It's ok...I'll enjoy my legumes and my whole grain oats and my brown rice and my potatoes and sweet potatoes and my fruit and my copious amounts of daily vegetables and I'll be happy.
you are so defensive when it comes to low carbers... in every thread. just relax. not everyone is out to call carbs junk or satan.
my body doesn't take well to them. doesn't make them bad for everyone. i know that. you don't want people to say all carbs are bad but you usually come in insinuating that all low carbers are...
i enjoy sweet potatoes, fruit, legumes, and vegetables, too.
I've been around here for over 2.5 years and frankly, low carbers and keto folks in general are the preachiest of the bunch...
Not to mention, I"m pretty active in the fitness community and industry in general and I'm actually witnessing dill hole trainers and the like telling their clients not to eat sweet peas for example...'cuz carbs. It's hard not to be a little defensive when derp is this abundant...
I'm just an old fashioned guys I guess...I simply believe in eating a balanced and varied diet that is rich in nutrition...guess that's just not cool and apparently I'm going to die from sweet peas now...
guy who hates preaching gets preachy
Yup...someone's gotta fight the power...
Srsly can't wait for this derp to just go away...
have you seen idiocracy? i don't think the derp is going anywhere.
bahahahaha idiocracy that movie rocks...
plants need Gatorade...!!
brawndo! every time i get a powerade or something i walk around saying "its got what plants crave, its got electrolytes"0 -
This is a semantical question and not very charitable towards what I posted. Low-carb or low-fat diets are engineered towards behaviors, usually for people who a have a logical disconnect between how many calories they eat and their weight. I suspect it's usually an emotional dysfunction, but I'm not a psychologist and I don't know everyone. Of course people lose weight because they take in fewer calories than they consume, but for whatever reason, they need to count something else or believe in something else that produces those results.
I'm clearly in your camp -- the bottomline/CICO camp. But I'm perfectly fine with a certain amount of delusion if it means a mother or father gets 20 more years with their children/grandchildren (or insert your favorite emotional ploy here). I'm not going to try and correct them (although I am clearly advocating patronizing them here ... whatever works for you).
Wait. Huh?
How does this answer the question?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
cosign0 -
Half of you are talking about CICO as a method and half of you are talking about CICO as a general philosophy. You're never going to hear each other until you start talking about the same thing.
Is CICO valid science? Yes.
Do you have to actually count the CI and CO parts for CICO to work? No.
Do you have to pay attention to C at all for CICO to work? No.
Can LC help some people "intuitively" reach their CI targets? Yes.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
Wait... whoever said that the only two options are LCHF and HCLF?
Probably the same people who decided that we must choose between 2000 calories of broccoli and 2000 calories of Twinkie.
Maybe Obama?
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yopeeps025 wrote: »
This is a semantical question and not very charitable towards what I posted. Low-carb or low-fat diets are engineered towards behaviors, usually for people who a have a logical disconnect between how many calories they eat and their weight. I suspect it's usually an emotional dysfunction, but I'm not a psychologist and I don't know everyone. Of course people lose weight because they take in fewer calories than they consume, but for whatever reason, they need to count something else or believe in something else that produces those results.
I'm clearly in your camp -- the bottomline/CICO camp. But I'm perfectly fine with a certain amount of delusion if it means a mother or father gets 20 more years with their children/grandchildren (or insert your favorite emotional ploy here). I'm not going to try and correct them (although I am clearly advocating patronizing them here ... whatever works for you).
you said CICO is not the only way....please tell me the other ways besides CICO??
LOL you see the white flag has been raise. If you can't beat'em join'em.
full blown retreat?0 -
SconnieCat wrote: »
This is a semantical question and not very charitable towards what I posted. Low-carb or low-fat diets are engineered towards behaviors, usually for people who a have a logical disconnect between how many calories they eat and their weight. I suspect it's usually an emotional dysfunction, but I'm not a psychologist and I don't know everyone. Of course people lose weight because they take in fewer calories than they consume, but for whatever reason, they need to count something else or believe in something else that produces those results.
I'm clearly in your camp -- the bottomline/CICO camp. But I'm perfectly fine with a certain amount of delusion if it means a mother or father gets 20 more years with their children/grandchildren (or insert your favorite emotional ploy here). I'm not going to try and correct them (although I am clearly advocating patronizing them here ... whatever works for you).
Wait. Huh?
How does this answer the question?
deflector shields at maximum, captain! *dorky star trek reference, I know*0 -
yeah it's this:
calories in --> [metabolism stuff, individual; food type may make a difference for some people] --> calories out0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
But she said "CICO alone ". Why do you *want* to go nitpicking? I know people post a lot of bulshit but don't let that make you see bulshit everywhere, even where it isn't.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
Wait... whoever said that the only two options are LCHF and HCLF?
Probably the same people who decided that we must choose between 2000 calories of broccoli and 2000 calories of Twinkie.
Maybe Obama?
is that in the new healthcare law?0 -
Wiseandcurious wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
But she said "CICO alone ". Why do you *want* to go nitpicking? I know people post a lot of bulshit but don't let that make you see bulshit everywhere, even where it isn't.
eh, I read it as she is trying to explain to the person that CICO is not calorie counting but an equation for losing weight...0 -
you said CICO is not the only way....please tell me the other ways besides CICO??
I get it. You're driving home the science. I was obviously referring to behavior. I didn't mean to impinge on ownership of the CICO "brand." I apologize for using it in a flip, generic way to refer to the practice of counting calories.0 -
[/quote]
I was diagnosed hypoglycemic by my pcp and not referred to an endocrinologist or a dietician. I actually wasn't given a referral to my endo until eleven years after my diagnosis. I was just told to control it with a low glycemic diet and to eat sugar when i was low. It wasn't until I got older and was able to do my own research that I figured out my pcp sucked. I guess hypoglycemia information has come a long way since I started having problems with it. [/quote]
I totally agree with you! I was diagnosed 22 years ago as hypoglycemic (on the severe end of the scale. Most PCP have no freaking clue about it. I'm lucky that I have an amazing endocrinologist even though every visit to my PCP he insists I don't need the endocrinologist and that he can "treat" it. Except his advice has always been the exact opposite of my endocrinologists advice and because my A1C levels are so low I don't have the ability to let someone try to fix what isn't broken.
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This is a semantical question and not very charitable towards what I posted. Low-carb or low-fat diets are engineered towards behaviors, usually for people who a have a logical disconnect between how many calories they eat and their weight. I suspect it's usually an emotional dysfunction, but I'm not a psychologist and I don't know everyone. Of course people lose weight because they take in fewer calories than they consume, but for whatever reason, they need to count something else or believe in something else that produces those results.
I'm clearly in your camp -- the bottomline/CICO camp. But I'm perfectly fine with a certain amount of delusion if it means a mother or father gets 20 more years with their children/grandchildren (or insert your favorite emotional ploy here). I'm not going to try and correct them (although I am clearly advocating patronizing them here ... whatever works for you).
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you said CICO is not the only way....please tell me the other ways besides CICO??
I get it. You're driving home the science. I was obviously referring to behavior. I didn't mean to impinge on ownership of the CICO "brand." I apologize for using it in a flip, generic way to refer to the practice of counting calories.
I don't own anything...
You said there is another way, I want ti know what the other way is...
I get it..you confused CICO with calorie counting, that is OK. It happens...0 -
Wiseandcurious wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
But she said "CICO alone ". Why do you *want* to go nitpicking? I know people post a lot of bulshit but don't let that make you see bulshit everywhere, even where it isn't.
eh, I read it as she is trying to explain to the person that CICO is not calorie counting but an equation for losing weight...
or gain weight or maintenance.
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This is a semantical question and not very charitable towards what I posted. Low-carb or low-fat diets are engineered towards behaviors, usually for people who a have a logical disconnect between how many calories they eat and their weight. I suspect it's usually an emotional dysfunction, but I'm not a psychologist and I don't know everyone. Of course people lose weight because they take in fewer calories than they consume, but for whatever reason, they need to count something else or believe in something else that produces those results.
I'm clearly in your camp -- the bottomline/CICO camp. But I'm perfectly fine with a certain amount of delusion if it means a mother or father gets 20 more years with their children/grandchildren (or insert your favorite emotional ploy here). I'm not going to try and correct them (although I am clearly advocating patronizing them here ... whatever works for you).
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yopeeps025 wrote: »Wiseandcurious wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
But she said "CICO alone ". Why do you *want* to go nitpicking? I know people post a lot of bulshit but don't let that make you see bulshit everywhere, even where it isn't.
eh, I read it as she is trying to explain to the person that CICO is not calorie counting but an equation for losing weight...
or gain weight or maintenance.
yes, that too.0 -
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
Wait... whoever said that the only two options are LCHF and HCLF?
I hear MCMFMP can also work....
Exactly.
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0
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stevencloser wrote: »
yeah true. i was seeing the middle part as a human body0 -
Amanda4change wrote: »
I was diagnosed hypoglycemic by my pcp and not referred to an endocrinologist or a dietician. I actually wasn't given a referral to my endo until eleven years after my diagnosis. I was just told to control it with a low glycemic diet and to eat sugar when i was low. It wasn't until I got older and was able to do my own research that I figured out my pcp sucked. I guess hypoglycemia information has come a long way since I started having problems with it. [/quote]
I totally agree with you! I was diagnosed 22 years ago as hypoglycemic (on the severe end of the scale. Most PCP have no freaking clue about it. I'm lucky that I have an amazing endocrinologist even though every visit to my PCP he insists I don't need the endocrinologist and that he can "treat" it. Except his advice has always been the exact opposite of my endocrinologists advice and because my A1C levels are so low I don't have the ability to let someone try to fix what isn't broken.
[/quote]
man, that sucks. i wish more pcps knew what to do with hypoglycemia.. its rough to live with when its not controlled. I'm glad you have a good endo. 0 -
Wiseandcurious wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
But she said "CICO alone ". Why do you *want* to go nitpicking? I know people post a lot of bulshit but don't let that make you see bulshit everywhere, even where it isn't.
CICO alone is the mechanism by which weight regulation works.
Full stop.
CI and CO are variables in an equation.
Medical problem? Your CO has a coefficient. Want to eat at a deficit? Your CI has a negative coefficient.
So yes, I am going to pick that nit, because it's incorrect usage of a term.
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This is a semantical question and not very charitable towards what I posted. Low-carb or low-fat diets are engineered towards behaviors, usually for people who a have a logical disconnect between how many calories they eat and their weight. I suspect it's usually an emotional dysfunction, but I'm not a psychologist and I don't know everyone. Of course people lose weight because they take in fewer calories than they consume, but for whatever reason, they need to count something else or believe in something else that produces those results.
I'm clearly in your camp -- the bottomline/CICO camp. But I'm perfectly fine with a certain amount of delusion if it means a mother or father gets 20 more years with their children/grandchildren (or insert your favorite emotional ploy here). I'm not going to try and correct them (although I am clearly advocating patronizing them here ... whatever works for you).
i didn't read that until your gif.
...seriously? my low carb diet is for the massive amounts of insulin my pancreas produces in response to carbs. not sure my emotional dysfunction has anything to do with it.0 -
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Wiseandcurious wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
But she said "CICO alone ". Why do you *want* to go nitpicking? I know people post a lot of bulshit but don't let that make you see bulshit everywhere, even where it isn't.
CICO alone is the mechanism by which weight regulation works.
Full stop.
CI and CO are variables in an equation.
Medical problem? Your CO has a coefficient. Want to eat at a deficit? Your CI has a negative coefficient.
So yes, I am going to pick that nit, because it's incorrect usage of a term.
:heart eye emoji:0 -
Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
I've also dumped cereal because the amount I need to eat for breakfast is 2.5 times the serving suggested on the box. My breakfast "diet food" is one egg, a strip of bacon, and some grilled onions.
I could care less about balanced macros. My grandparents lived past 90 at the right weight without knowing their balanced macros. But they ate good food, and had no junk in the house.
PS - I get most of my carbs from fruit and vegetables.
What are your ratios if you eat fruit then? Fruit has sugar?
The sugar I'm getting from fruit is a lot less than the sugar I was getting from cookies and ice cream.
It's entirely possible to control the amount of cookies and ice cream you eat without being LCHF. In fact, amusingly enough, the majority of calories in both are probably from fat, so HCLF people probably aren't eating lots of either.
There's a lot less sugar in potatoes or oatmeal or whole wheat pasta, to pick three major sources of carbs I've had this week, than in fruit (which I've also had, also ice cream, for full disclosure, which I easily can eat a serving of). So not really sure why you are making the discussion about "sugar."
You also didn't answer the question Mel asked.
OK. How about the calories I am getting from fruit is a lot less than the calories I used to get from cookies, cake, chips, pretzels, ice cream and other junk (which I still eat by the way, but at a reduction of about 90% from my previous levels).
congratulations you replaced a high calorie food with a lower calorie food...
fruit sugar = cookie sugar
but lets not derail this into a sugar debate0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Onlythetruth wrote: »The high-fat, low-carb and low-refined sugar way of eating has left the station. Time to get on board!
There's a reason why you can find a couple of dozen LCHF diet books on Amazon, and no HCLF diet books. LCHF works. Why? Because with for me and millions, you just eat fewer calories with LCHF. It's that simple.
And before you get into a tizzy, I'm not saying no carbs and no sugar. I'm saying low carbs and low sugar. There is always a time to eat that piece of cheesecake.
You can find any kind of diet book on amazon. No one here is recommending a HCLF diet (I'd hate it), but there are people on MFP all about the raw 80-10-10 stuff, and plenty of diet books for plenty of different kinds of diets that are HCLF.
I don't at all disagree that LCHF works, but this is the kind of post that we've been responding to that Mel seems to want to dismiss (I would to if I were her, since she seems extremely sensible and to have a good understanding of how different diets work for different people). The point I and others are making is that LCHF is not the best diet ever and doesn't work for EVERYONE. It would not work for me, whereas balanced macros do (balance depending on what my TDEE is and how much activity I'm doing). You may eat fewer calories doing LCHF (if only because you are using that to cut out trigger foods that for you happen to be processed carbs), but that's not so for everyone, and if you are doing it to cut out foods that tempt you (as opposed to dealing with satiety issues) I'm frankly skeptical about whether there's any benefit long term.
Long term, not having big bags of chips and cookies and pretzels, and half-gallon containers of ice cream in my house, have worked out very well for me long-term. Yes, I admit it - I lack willpower. And so do most people.
And again, this has NOTHING to do with being low carb. You don't need to be low carb to get rid of trigger foods in the house, and I'm many could come up with trigger foods that aren't carb based to keep in the house or not.
Logic fail. If A=B does not imply B=A.
If someone's trigger foods are primarily carb-heavy, then yes, LC may well be the "right" answer.
Of course. But the poster in question isn't saying low carb works for her. If you'd been reading the whole discussion you should know that I completely agree that low carb works for some people. The poster is claiming that LCHF is inherently superior and works for everyone, because SHE overeats on Doritos.
But beyond that, it seems a poor fit if the problem is actually trigger foods (and the poster in question seems confused about the distinction between LCHF and avoiding "junk" foods). Again, it's like the poster who wanted to cut her fat to 10 grams to eliminate McD's. If our issue is Doritos or cookies, don't keep those in the house (if you can't learn to eat them in moderation). That doesn't mean you need to limit your carbs to 5% and generally cut out oatmeal, potatoes, quinoa, bananas, whatever. For some people does that make sense? Sure, of course. I've consistently said that. But don't tell me it's the only way to make sure you don't go nuts on Oreos or suggest that the distinction between low carb and other posters' diets is "processed foods" or "junk," which is just silly.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »kamakazeekim wrote: »I have PCOS and when I tried just CICO I continued gaining weight. Once I was put on metformin and restricted carbs I lost weight like crazy even though my calorie intake actually went up. I realize the typical person without a hormone issue going on probably wouldn't have the same issues that I did.
you are still doing CICO ..you are just using medication to regulate the out side for you ..
I have PCOS and have been on Metformin for years. CICO did not work for me, while on the medication, and I gained weight while eating within my calorie range and working out. Even when varying the amount of exercise calories back or not eating them at all. I measure my food and don't eat junk either.
When I eat low carb I lose weight. My medication hasn't changed and my exercise hasn't changed either, the only thing that has changed is the restricting of carbohydrates. I still eat within my calorie range, still vary eating back my exercise calories, yet now I'm losing weight. For some of us, low carb eating is medically necessary and CICO will never work.
^^^ I have experienced this exact same thing. I think many PCOS'ers have which is why I am guessing the OP opted to say he wasn't talking about those with medical issues.
My experience was the exact same- I was doing calorie restriction- 1600 a day, let MFP set my macros for me, even researched TDEE and IIFYM calculators to see what my macros should be and set them by those. Was working out twice a week with a very good personal trainer and three times a week on my own- did not lose weight.
I also did CICO based on TDEE with a 500 cal cut (as recommended)- without working out while on metformin- did not lose weight.
Now- I am still sticking to my 1600 cals, on metformin and cut carbs as recommended by my doc and nutritionist and I am losing steadily- without exercise. The only difference is that now I am limiting my carbs to 30g a day. I am adding exercise now (just this week) because I want to build muscle. For some of us low carbers as @Babbs1977 says- CICO alone will never work
ARGH!... Just picking a nit!!!! CICO is working. I am picking a nit with your language. You're not the first poster to do this, so sorry for singling you out.
CICO is NOT a way of eating. It's an equation. Calories in, Calories Out. Colloquially, around here, it's used to mean mean putting that equation into practice so that it nets a deficit of energy.
The components of what make up those calories are NOT CICO.
CICO is working for you.... on a diet with its macros balanced to be low carb.
CICO is working for me... on a diet with its macros balanced to be moderate carb.
CICO works for other people on this thread with different macro balances.
Sorry, I just... there has to be a better way to to stop confusing IIFYM with CICO.
And not to be rude or demeaning to you but if you actually read my post instead of quickly scanning through it (an assumption on my part here) - you will find that I NEVER said CICO is NOT working for me. What I said was that CICO ALONE will never work for me- meaning I cannot simply just stick to counting the amount of CALORIES I take in- which I have tried. I HAVE to count carbs AND calories- like I said in other posts- because insulin and my body not using it properly.
I also NEVER said CICO is a way of eating (another assumption on your part) I am fully aware of what it means and the equation it represents.
You are correct I am doing CICO (also stated on another post) but with the macros (which several others have posted as part of CICO) balanced with a lower carb count0
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