Why are people so negative regarding clean eating?
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Both sides shove **** down the other sides' throats and it's just a perpetual battle of stupidity.
What do those who don't eat clean shove downs people's throats, exactly? No one has ever said 'don't eat clean' but rather 'you don't have to eat clean'/'clean eating doesn't exist cause no foods are dirty/bad'. No one wants clean eaters to change or subscribe to a different diet.
This DOES happen all the time. I was on a thread the other day where someone posted that they were interested in making other friends who were into clean eating. Tons of posts ensued where people, unsolicited, pretty much stated that all clean eaters are preachy, pushy, misguided people. One poster suggested that people who eat clean just don't have self control (like she did) and should focus more on eating junk food in moderation (like she does) It happens ALL the time, here and in the real world. I'm paleo for a myriad of health reasons, but I try not to tell people because I get so tired of being told that doing so is wrong for whatever reason, and then I am either forced to go into my medical history to justify my choices or just nod and agree. I am sure that there are clean eaters who are preachy and judgmental, just like there are those in every group, but it seems that a lot of them venom gets spewed at clean eating as a lifestyle. I just don't get it. No worries, everybody, I won't offer you ANY suggestions or relate what has been helpful to me!
Do you have a link to this thread so we may check it out to verify your claims?
I can't get the thread to link correctly, and I can't figure out why. The title of the thread was "Anyone doing whole/real/clean eating out there?" Perhaps someone else will have better luck linking to it than I did. BTW, I really appreciate your thoughtful discussion style. You are having a conversation, not a shouting match, and I really appreciate that. I think I'm not cut out for the boards and all the attack. It makes me want to leave the site. Fortunately, I have fantastic MFP friends and wouldn't want to let them down.
The thread has been locked/purged so you can't link to it. But from what I can glean from what's left, it looks like OP opened with something disparging about those who don't eat clean (as the first post I see from a 'non clean' eater is "Sanctimony is unattractive whichever way it goes, OP.", suggesting the OP had been sanctimonious in their OP.
Note that the first 'negative' comment is about how the OP eats, but how the OP put their message across. Next I see some things about how food is neither inherently healthy or unhealthy, which isn't bullying at all. Then, and this made me chuckle, someone saying that they don't feel the OP really eats clean cause artificial sugars. Shortly after this it does break down into your typical shoving match.
My honest assessment is the OP probably said something about those who don't eat clean, perhaps without even realizing it, and that's what started the debate.
From my memory, the first post was a pretty innocuous statement from OP saying she didn't know much about clean eating and what it was all about, was looking for advice/friends. The next several posts were mostly from people saying something brief but disparaging about what they didn't like about clean eaters. THe OP could very have gotten sanctimonious, I truly have no idea and wouldn't dispute it, but I am pretty sure what you're reading was not near the beginning of the post. It was a shoving match from the second post on.0 -
From my memory, the first post was a pretty innocuous statement from OP saying she didn't know much about clean eating and what it was all about, was looking for advice/friends. The next several posts were mostly from people saying something brief but disparaging about what they didn't like about clean eaters. THe OP could very have gotten sanctimonious, I truly have no idea and wouldn't dispute it, but I am pretty sure what you're reading was not near the beginning of the post. It was a shoving match from the second post on.
I can only comment on what I can see. The first 'negative' post is what I quoted, all the ones before that are from people who also eat clean for various reasons.0 -
If you aren't going to post a cat GIF, Dean Winchester is the way to go.
He really has the best facial expressions. He conveys so much without a word. It's an artform, truly.
Also all kinds of hot. I'm watching supernatural while I bake cupcakes and I'm honestly not sure what's more appealing, the cupcakes or Dean.
Also I've given the matter some thought and I think I'll also keep a record of all anti-lifting posts. That way I can be a little more well rounded. Your suggestion was a very good one.0 -
People are biased toward the first things they hear and things that support what they already believe, and they tend to remember negative things and things that are unusual to them. If the first thing someone encounters on this forums is on the rabid side and they've been exposed to the thin=snobby stereotype, you've got all four of these things at the same time, which combined with being relatively anonymous around here is a recipe for forum wars.
Just sayin'.0 -
Also I've given the matter some thought and I think I'll also keep a record of all anti-lifting posts. That way I can be a little more well rounded. Your suggestion was a very good one.
The anti-lifting comments are the most entertaining of all the anti- comments, so I would greatly appreciate it if you would. I hope that's next weekend's drama. I'm not even a clean eater, and anti-vegan generalizations are too personal for me to usually participate, but I do like lifting and have no ethical beliefs behind it, so that should be fun for me, assuming my doctor doesn't lift my rest sentence by then.0 -
From my memory, the first post was a pretty innocuous statement from OP saying she didn't know much about clean eating and what it was all about, was looking for advice/friends. The next several posts were mostly from people saying something brief but disparaging about what they didn't like about clean eaters. THe OP could very have gotten sanctimonious, I truly have no idea and wouldn't dispute it, but I am pretty sure what you're reading was not near the beginning of the post. It was a shoving match from the second post on.
I'm reading a cached version of that thread now. The original post was bland enough in a TL;DR way, but the third post was someone talking smack about someone who follows IIFYM. A few posts later, the OP joins in on the smack talk. There's nothing negative said about clean eating or clean eaters on the first page.
Moderation gets mentioned a few times on the second page. Still no drama, until... Chelsifina get offended and calls someone "aggressive, judgmental, and arrogant" for saying that "there's something to be said for not fearing food and for being able to learn self-control."
*sigh*0 -
Plus, the anti-lifting always results in inspiring pictures. A win-win.0
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Also I've given the matter some thought and I think I'll also keep a record of all anti-lifting posts. That way I can be a little more well rounded. Your suggestion was a very good one.
The anti-lifting comments are the most entertaining of all the anti- comments, so I would greatly appreciate it if you would. I hope that's next weekend's drama. I'm not even a clean eater, and anti-vegan generalizations are too personal for me to usually participate, but I do like lifting and have no ethical beliefs behind it, so that should be fun for me, assuming my doctor doesn't lift my rest sentence by then.
Anti-lifting threads are actually my favorite as well. Clean eating/IIFYM is a little too 'personal' because really everyone should eat what they enjoy in moderation and we should all STFU from there. I'm fine with clean eating (I eat mostly clean, I've got clean eaters, people on Paleo, people doing keto, veggies, and so on on my FL. I like them all and they all eat lots of tasty food I would eat.)
But lifting! People angry about lifting are just funny. I feel like for the most part everyone can get together and chuckle at those people.0 -
From my memory, the first post was a pretty innocuous statement from OP saying she didn't know much about clean eating and what it was all about, was looking for advice/friends. The next several posts were mostly from people saying something brief but disparaging about what they didn't like about clean eaters. THe OP could very have gotten sanctimonious, I truly have no idea and wouldn't dispute it, but I am pretty sure what you're reading was not near the beginning of the post. It was a shoving match from the second post on.
I'm reading a cached version of that thread now. The original post was bland enough in a TL;DR way, but the third post was someone talking smack about someone who follows IIFYM. A few posts later, the OP joins in on the smack talk. There's nothing negative said about clean eating or clean eaters on the first page.
Moderation gets mentioned a few times on the second page. Still no drama, until... Chelsifina get offended and calls someone "aggressive, judgmental, and arrogant" for saying that "there's something to be said for not fearing food and for being able to learn self-control."
*sigh*
as i recall, it was the "cleaners" who got all pissy in that thread first.
and the previous thread.
and the previous thread.
and the one before that.
and now i'm noticing a pattern.
:huh:0 -
Anti-lifting threads are actually my favorite as well. Clean eating/IIFYM is a little too 'personal' because really everyone should eat what they enjoy in moderation and we should all STFU from there. I'm fine with clean eating (I eat mostly clean, I've got clean eaters, people on Paleo, people doing keto, veggies, and so on on my FL. I like them all and they all eat lots of tasty food I would eat.)
But lifting! People angry about lifting are just funny. I feel like for the most part everyone can get together and chuckle at those people.
Yes, I agree 100% with you on this entire post.
You can probably spot who was told they should be lawyers growing up when they can agree 100% on the final message and argue with one another all the way getting there.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Anti-lifting threads are actually my favorite as well. Clean eating/IIFYM is a little too 'personal' because really everyone should eat what they enjoy in moderation and we should all STFU from there. I'm fine with clean eating (I eat mostly clean, I've got clean eaters, people on Paleo, people doing keto, veggies, and so on on my FL. I like them all and they all eat lots of tasty food I would eat.)
But lifting! People angry about lifting are just funny. I feel like for the most part everyone can get together and chuckle at those people.
Yes, I agree 100% with you on this entire post.
You can probably spot who was told they should be lawyers growing up when they can agree 100% on the final message and argue with one another all the way getting there.
:flowerforyou:
And to leave this on a really good note!
I bet he lifts.0 -
Ooh I've never had a pop tart...now i have to out of curiosity!
Pop Tarts are Rubbish, Toaster Strudels are where its at!
going to have to Google that one...but I am moderately excited at the prospect!
Toasted poptarts + ice cream sammich > Toaster strudel + ice cream
Toaster Strudel (with no ice cream) > Poptart (with no ice cream)
Either with ice cream > either without ice cream0 -
The 5 Cliques, this was my favorite post on this thread:
""""Really? You haven't spent enough time here. There is the McDonald's crowd. Loud and proud to eat a Big Mac. The "soda" crowd...F you, I lost 300 pounds drinking a 12 a day, the calories in and calories out crowd - eat whatever you want, then binge, opps it is your fault, crowd. And my favorite...the you must be starving yourself, eat more crowd. Yawn...""""""
Have noticed these 5 groups myself and so reading it got me really thinking and reaffirmed that we are all so different---eat, lift, do cardio, combine the two--, diet or don 't......follow your inner narrative and do what works or what doesn't work for you.0 -
I said in caps that this statement was not 100% of people, it was a general statement. Good for you on your social behavior. I was talking about, and I've seen it more than once is oh no I can't have that I'm watching what I eat" etc. That can come off as offensive. As well as that attitude my eating is better, or I have more will power. I was just addressing many points made in this thread. It was someone else who said clean eaters had more determination, I was just addressing that.
I know it wasn't 100% of people, I read that, but your "I just know" what other people are thinking makes me think it's a bit more personal than that. If you take offense to people saying, "Oh no, I can't have that, I'm watching what I eat," you may want to look at why. Unless they launch into a tirade about you, or about the food being disgusting and filthy, you are probably taking it too personally. I find it a lot more rude to expect people to eat something they don't want to in order to avoid others feeling a certain way about a choice that has nothing at all to do with them.And this post was about clean eaters so please don't get me started about other group of people in the world (clean eaters, IIFYM, vegans, Christians, Caucasians, Asians, cat people, anti-baby people, parents). That is not what we are addressing here.
You missed the point. Singling out arrogant people from a certain group to make a point is meaningless unless you are really trying to make a point about the whole group while appearing like you are not. Arrogant people are arrogant-it will likely reflect in what they do. Some arrogant people may consider themselves elitist eaters, which I almost can't type without laughing. How does this sentence sound: "People who eat whatever they want are arrogant because I just know they are rubbing it in my face that they work out more than me and can afford to eat that. I don't mean all of them, just SOME of the people who eat whatever they want." Sounds pretty silly, put that way. Or do you really know that many clean eaters in your life, who are watching you take white rice and bread, that you can have all these general feelings about them?And although its not "your fault" if the way you word your choices makes people feel bad, we can all edit our sentences so our choices don't effect anyone. That's what I was getting at, so if you aren't the rude one at a work function awesome! Go you
Of course we can all edit our thoughts! I definitely do so routinely when posting on MFP. Saying, "I'm sorry, I can't eat that right now" is not rude, and if someone feels defensive because of it, that's so far outside of my control I can't worry about that. You may ask, "Why add the not right now?" Because people always feel entitled to ask why someone doesn't eat the meatloaf or the rice or whatever. People shouldn't have to lie and make excuses when the simply truth isn't offensive.
There are clean eaters with a high sense of entitlement, and do not let them cause you to feel defensive. Be ok with what you eat and why, and you won't allow others to make you feel defensive. I get ridiculed for my diet, and while sometimes I get sick of it, I never feel defensive, because I don't care what others think about the food that goes in my mouth. I also don't apologize for not taking a scoop of the chicken salad because someone else may feel bad.All I wanted to address is that there are some clean eaters that have a high sense of entitlement and that does cause "dirty" eaters to be defensive.
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At my bbq's everyone who comes is a gym member and we all eat healthy so it's all healthy food right now. It's not personal, it was just an opinion about the topic of the thread. Why are people negative about clean eating it could be that some people who0 eat clean have a sense of entitlement but not all. It's not personal and have not posted on a clean eating board before or received a nasty message. It's in no way personal, I must not be the best at articulating how I feel and maybe because it's over the internet you got the vibe that something has effected me personally but you are digging to deep into things. I have said some of the same points others have. And sometimes clean eaters, vegans, vegetarians, etc do make it a bit hard on others for functions, I only know this because I've read msg boards that are like "OMG oh no ANOTHER potluck at work! GUH I hate my life people try to sabotage me" and all that garbage. So it's just me seeing posts asking for support on how to deal with other peoples food choices and going to bbq's. I didn't think it would be dissected as a defensive response to a traumatic incident with a clean eater. Take things with a grain of salt if I am not talking about you. If you don't fit into my statement good on ya and pass by. I was just giving a reason as to why dirty eaters may be defensive. Obviously the reasons I gave are invalid, and dirty eaters don't think some are entitled, or preachy, or make functions difficult. Obviously I am WAY off base. Don't read this as mad either, my greatest quality is my tenacity. I am usually always smiling and easy going, I am trying to type this light and with no anger so don't rad my posts that way. When I read your response to my post I felt like you obviously read it as an attack or a b!tchy post. And it was SO not wrote that way. It was just my 2 cents said in a normal everyday tone.0 -
And this post was about clean eaters so please don't get me started about other group of people in the world (clean eaters, IIFYM, vegans, Christians, Caucasians, Asians, cat people, anti-baby people, parents). That is not what we are addressing here.You missed the point. Singling out arrogant people from a certain group to make a point is meaningless unless you are really trying to make a point about the whole group while appearing like you are not. Arrogant people are arrogant-it will likely reflect in what they do. Some arrogant people may consider themselves elitist eaters, which I almost can't type without laughing. How does this sentence sound: "People who eat whatever they want are arrogant because I just know they are rubbing it in my face that they work out more than me and can afford to eat that. I don't mean all of them, just SOME of the people who eat whatever they want." Sounds pretty silly, put that way. Or do you really know that many clean eaters in your life, who are watching you take white rice and bread, that you can have all these general feelings about them?
I don't see it that way, and your statement has not changed my mind. I always talk about behaviors I don't like from a select percentage from a group and am not trying to make a point about the whole group while appearing to not. If I say someone is entitled it does not effect anyone who is not. It's like talking about Westboro Baptist Church, or Christians who think the LGBT community is immoral, it does not effect any Christians who are okay with it and want to get with the times. Sometimes a few bad ones in the bunch ruin it for everyone and I get that some people may not like Christians because a few are open about their hatred for LGBT but I on the other hand love my grandma and understand that because a select few who may be louder than the rest do not represent the community as a whole, their views, morals or attitudes. So I don't know what your getting at that saying something you hate about a select few in a group means you are trying to bash the whole group, but for every group I could say oh the bad teens are ruining the vision for everyone else, but I'm not saying all teens are bad. With every statement you reply to you have a way of twisting the words in a way to sound intelligent, but I see through your statements. Trying to say it's about me and personal, or I am also tying to bash a whole group. You need to see comments as they are sometimes, no hidden meanings here. And I tried to say no offence in my post because I have clean eating friends who have NEVER personally told me they eat clean, they are awesome and never preached or shoved it in anyone's face. So I don't want to say everyone who eats clean is judgemental, I just wanted to try to give examples as to why people may get their backs up? I don't even know if you will read my reply how it is meant to be read. So sorry if I cannot communicate effectively.
-edited to try and take my reply out of the blue quote box :P hope it worked 0 -
Too hard not to pop in especially when I see the same common users in here. I agree with much of what everyone is saying, I think both the "clean eaters" and "dirty eaters" are pretty much in agreeance over the same issues. Eat well balanced, get your proper nutrition, splurge in moderation when you need to, be realistic, have a well balanced diet you can stick with long term, stay active, include weight training. I just think this " IIFYM fad" is another diet label. I personally stay away from any and all diets.
All the attacking is a bit out of hand though. If you mention you try to avoid bacon, white rice, or ice cream watch out! I think what the IIFYM crew doesn't realize is just because someone tries to avoid a certain type of food doesn't mean that they never eat it and any user has the right to think a certain type of food is not the healthiest option without getting a barrage of attacks for your difference of opinion.
This made me laugh a bit about the 'IIFYM crowd." People think that's the highest level of leniency. People forget about the IIFYC(IF It Fits your Calories) crowd. The IIFYM crowd think they're superior to the clean eaters, the IIFYC crowd think they're superior than the IIFYM crowd. It depends on the level of abstraction.
My question to you is... you mentioned IIFYM as a fad. I do kind of agree with you, just curious what eating/dietary method you would consider that's not a fad?
I don't follow any of them, so I agree they're all fads, diets, labels whatever you want to call them. There is no right or wrong way. I concentrate on the overall lifestyle and try to work with clients on in individual basis. My objective is to make a lifestyle change, not just to focus on weight loss. For some people substitutions work, some people need more resistance training, some are very successful counting their calories, some people actually prefer to eat no "dirty foods" at all. I have clients that are very into organic and don't even believe in microwaving food because it zaps the nutrients. Everyone is truly different and using one method is just not realistic for myself, probably many of the people on these boards, or my clients. I think some of these "crowds" do have a superiority complex and I can see how it can be frustrating and discouraging for some of the members on these forums.
Legit question: do you get your clients to try to hit certain macronutrients within their dietary parameters?
I don't tell them they must hit a certain specific number everyday, but I encourage them to keep a balance and pay attention to what they are eating, if their diet is 50% carbs, I advise to cut some carbs and add in more protein. I don't think anyone is perfect and don't have them strive for perfection. I also encourage getting enough fiber and in order to get that fiber some substitutions might need to be made like eating more whole grains and vegetables. I also believe in getting your vitamins from natural sources instead of man made vitamins or foods that are fortified. This encourages the consumption of veggies, fruits, proteins, fish, whole grains..or in other words a nice balanced diet.
I actually personally have a very similar diet myself to the IIFYM crowd as I love certain treats and I am able to eat them because I don't go overboard. I always have enough calories in my day to include them. While I don't calculate it out to a specific number of calories, I have gotten good at just doing it naturally. I have no problem with this approach at all and think it can be very beneficial for a lot of people, I just don't think its the only approach that works, or that is has to be one or the other. There are good points to all these various diets/ views points and they can all be used together.
Thank you for the response.
While we have disagreed on some threads, I think that you will find that most of my advice/recommendations etc are actually along these lines. As we are on a site that allows you to focus on macros, then I do suggest that people try to hit them (set appropriately for them), but I agree that many people can do this if they pay attention to their diet as a whole without having to actually log. The same goes for micronutrients and fiber. If you eat a balanced diet with a good proportion and mix of nutrient dense foods (fruits, veggies etc), then you are a long way to getting or exceeding your requirements. As I noted on a prior post, some people do better at avoiding certain trigger foods, some do better at not eating any non 'whole' foods for satiety reason etc, but at the end of the day, having flexible dieting as a starting point and adapting it to suit your needs is beneficial for the majority of people in my opinion.0 -
I am just going to weigh in here on this... I am a clean eater (most of the time...I am not perfect) and I have been for many years, long before I joined mfp. My experience here with other clean eaters has been negative, as they (some not all) have been judgemental, condescending, and at times quite rude. So my thought is that perhaps some of the negativity is aimed more at those individuals rather than clean eating itself. Furthermore, clean eating has so many different definitions depending on who you talk to that it has become a bit of a fad term if you will. For me it is eating the way earlier generations did, preparing meals themselves, knowing what went into their food, when cooking was cooking, not science, when preserving meant you were making jam or relish or pickles :-)
I subscribe to the 'to each their own' philosphy, I know clean eating makes me feel better, and I see it as common sense, but not everyone does. Like anything in life we have to read absorb and determine what info is relevant to us, the same applies to life on mfp.
Wishing everyone their own kind of success...cheers!0 -
When I read your response to my post I felt like you obviously read it as an attack or a b!tchy post. And it was SO not wrote that way. It was just my 2 cents said in a normal everyday tone.
No, I don't feel it was an attack or betchy, I just disagreed with your post. I'm not really looking for hidden meanings in what people say, more just calling it as I see/perceive it. Your posts likewise didn't change my mind, but I'm out of steam on this thread, and I don't really see any value in repeating the arguments I've already made, as I feel you and I (and others) would just go round and round on it, and I'm Team Dean, so I can't close these gates of hell.
Edit: re-reading your last post, a few lines could be taken as offensive, but so be it. I don't twist to sound intelligent, unless I am being dry or droll on purpose.
Are you looking for hidden meanings when you see through me? :noway:0 -
I am just going to weigh in here on this... I am a clean eater (most of the time...I am not perfect) and I have been for many years, long before I joined mfp. My experience here with other clean eaters has been negative, as they (some not all) have been judgemental, condescending, and at times quite rude. So my thought is that perhaps some of the negativity is aimed more at those individuals rather than clean eating itself. Furthermore, clean eating has so many different definitions depending on who you talk to that it has become a bit of a fad term if you will. For me it is eating the way earlier generations did, preparing meals themselves, knowing what went into their food, when cooking was cooking, not science, when preserving meant you were making jam or relish or pickles :-)
I subscribe to the 'to each their own' philosphy, I know clean eating makes me feel better, and I see it as common sense, but not everyone does. Like anything in life we have to read absorb and determine what info is relevant to us, the same applies to life on mfp.
Wishing everyone their own kind of success...cheers!
Absolutely. The negativity is not aimed at eating clean. Plenty of people eat clean. Sara eats clean. JQ eats pretty clean. SideSteel eats fairly clean. Those are 3 of my idols on this site.
The problem is with people telling us, and MFP in general, that if you don't eat clean you will have a variety of negative effects ranging from failure to lose weight to cancer. The problem is with people telling us that McDonald's chicken sandwiches are going to literally kill us.0 -
When I read your response to my post I felt like you obviously read it as an attack or a b!tchy post. And it was SO not wrote that way. It was just my 2 cents said in a normal everyday tone.
No, I don't feel it was an attack or betchy, I just disagreed with your post. I'm not really looking for hidden meanings in what people say, more just calling it as I see/perceive it. Your posts likewise didn't change my mind, but I'm out of steam on this thread, and I don't really see any value in repeating the arguments I've already made, as I feel you and I (and others) would just go round and round on it, and I'm Team Dean, so I can't close these gates of hell.
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Why can't everyone just put your blinders on and run your own race.0
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Absolutely. The negativity is not aimed at eating clean. Plenty of people eat clean. Sara eats clean. JQ eats pretty clean. SideSteel eats fairly clean. Those are 3 of my idols on this site.
Depends on the interpretation of clean. I eat what I think is clean 80% of the time (I consume a lot of milk and processed yet 'made of whole food' meat alternatives) and eat a mix of grubby and positively filthy for the rest (unless its last week as it was the end of my bulk so all bets were off).
And thank you :flowerforyou:0 -
This is such a touchy subject, why I have no idea. Everyone has to do what works for them.
A person saying they eat clean and this is why they eat clean, is their opinion. Why people take offense or assume they are saying you need to eat this way I have no idea. The posts I have seen have just been people telling about their choice to eat clean, not in anyway saying this is the way you should go, and yet people are cursing them out in the worst way.
I can understand being upset if someone said you are a f***ing idiot for not eating my way blah blah blah, but the posts I read have not been this way. Take a chill pill people.
Eat what you want and do what works for you!!!!0 -
Again, this is just me personally but I find if I eat whatever I want, I overdo it and binge. If I eat ice cream I just want more and more, I can't keep it below my cal limit. I find clean eating makes it easier. Why bash me for eating clean.
So ice cream isn't clean? What about Talenti ice cream?
Have you ever looked at an ingredient list for most ice creams? I have never heard of that brand so I can't say.
I am avoiding dairy at the moment because I may be intolerant so I don't eat ice cream anyways but when I did, I have been known to eat a whole 2L tub in one sitting.
Try this 150 calories for the entire pint! Lactose and gluten free. It tastes like a wendy's frosty. 0 -
I've been getting discouraged when I see such negativity on the boards, not just to clean eating but any other eating plan someone doesn't agree with. Everyone is different, and everyone loses weight different ways. One way doesn't work for everyone. Maybe you can lose weight eating poptarts and cake, and I'm sure I could too but I choose not to because I would feel sluggish, lethargic and sick all the time. With clean eating I feel more energetic, less brain fog, I am HAPPIER (And considering I suffer from depression and anxiety, this is awesome) so not everyone is eating clean to lose weight. People seem to forget that.
I feel the same way when I eat garbage especially sweets....and I know what you mean about the depression/anxiety because I also feel my best when I eat clean. Just do what works for you...people will be judgemental and you can't change that.
I say, hey if you can eat pizza and cake and lose weight,more power to you...but that's not for me. ;-)0 -
I am just going to weigh in here on this... I am a clean eater (most of the time...I am not perfect) and I have been for many years, long before I joined mfp. My experience here with other clean eaters has been negative, as they (some not all) have been judgemental, condescending, and at times quite rude. So my thought is that perhaps some of the negativity is aimed more at those individuals rather than clean eating itself. Furthermore, clean eating has so many different definitions depending on who you talk to that it has become a bit of a fad term if you will. For me it is eating the way earlier generations did, preparing meals themselves, knowing what went into their food, when cooking was cooking, not science, when preserving meant you were making jam or relish or pickles :-)
I subscribe to the 'to each their own' philosphy, I know clean eating makes me feel better, and I see it as common sense, but not everyone does. Like anything in life we have to read absorb and determine what info is relevant to us, the same applies to life on mfp.
Wishing everyone their own kind of success...cheers!
I agree with this. I think it's a little bit that the newly converted (to almost anything) can be overbearing. So the newly zealous clean eaters, sometimes, speak as if everyone else is eating trash and it gets annoying.
These threads crack me up because if people could/did see the diaries of those they have designated king/queen of McDonalds/Poptarts/ice cream they would see - for the most part - healthy breakfast, lunch and dinner with a treat or two listed under their snacks. No different from an 80/20 or even 90/10 "clean" eater.0 -
I eat clean because I love the way my body feels I'm pescetarian transitioning to vegan and I love what my healthy eating choices have done for my body and my self esteem. If you're eating clean, you're helping your body so don't worry about what others say. My family teases me about it sometimes and they never accommodate me at family gatherings so I just bring my own food. The way I see it is they can call me stuck up or "too good for your food" but I'm being good to my body and you're not.
I think it's horrible how some of you have responded to this. Did you not take the time to think about this post before you saw the last sentence and went haywire?
I referred to MY FAMILY. Do you have any idea how my family eats? I didn't think so. Healthy choices don't go over so well with my family. I said "The way I see it is (THEY can call me stuck up or too good for THEIR food but I'm being good to my body and THEY'RE not).
Did you not understand that the "you're" in that original sentence was directed at my family or were you just bored and needed someone to pick on tonight. Real nice, all of you.0 -
Too hard not to pop in especially when I see the same common users in here. I agree with much of what everyone is saying, I think both the "clean eaters" and "dirty eaters" are pretty much in agreeance over the same issues. Eat well balanced, get your proper nutrition, splurge in moderation when you need to, be realistic, have a well balanced diet you can stick with long term, stay active, include weight training. I just think this " IIFYM fad" is another diet label. I personally stay away from any and all diets.
All the attacking is a bit out of hand though. If you mention you try to avoid bacon, white rice, or ice cream watch out! I think what the IIFYM crew doesn't realize is just because someone tries to avoid a certain type of food doesn't mean that they never eat it and any user has the right to think a certain type of food is not the healthiest option without getting a barrage of attacks for your difference of opinion.
This made me laugh a bit about the 'IIFYM crowd." People think that's the highest level of leniency. People forget about the IIFYC(IF It Fits your Calories) crowd. The IIFYM crowd think they're superior to the clean eaters, the IIFYC crowd think they're superior than the IIFYM crowd. It depends on the level of abstraction.
My question to you is... you mentioned IIFYM as a fad. I do kind of agree with you, just curious what eating/dietary method you would consider that's not a fad?
I don't follow any of them, so I agree they're all fads, diets, labels whatever you want to call them. There is no right or wrong way. I concentrate on the overall lifestyle and try to work with clients on in individual basis. My objective is to make a lifestyle change, not just to focus on weight loss. For some people substitutions work, some people need more resistance training, some are very successful counting their calories, some people actually prefer to eat no "dirty foods" at all. I have clients that are very into organic and don't even believe in microwaving food because it zaps the nutrients. Everyone is truly different and using one method is just not realistic for myself, probably many of the people on these boards, or my clients. I think some of these "crowds" do have a superiority complex and I can see how it can be frustrating and discouraging for some of the members on these forums.
Legit question: do you get your clients to try to hit certain macronutrients within their dietary parameters?
I don't tell them they must hit a certain specific number everyday, but I encourage them to keep a balance and pay attention to what they are eating, if their diet is 50% carbs, I advise to cut some carbs and add in more protein. I don't think anyone is perfect and don't have them strive for perfection. I also encourage getting enough fiber and in order to get that fiber some substitutions might need to be made like eating more whole grains and vegetables. I also believe in getting your vitamins from natural sources instead of man made vitamins or foods that are fortified. This encourages the consumption of veggies, fruits, proteins, fish, whole grains..or in other words a nice balanced diet.
I actually personally have a very similar diet myself to the IIFYM crowd as I love certain treats and I am able to eat them because I don't go overboard. I always have enough calories in my day to include them. While I don't calculate it out to a specific number of calories, I have gotten good at just doing it naturally. I have no problem with this approach at all and think it can be very beneficial for a lot of people, I just don't think its the only approach that works, or that is has to be one or the other. There are good points to all these various diets/ views points and they can all be used together.
Thank you for the response.
While we have disagreed on some threads, I think that you will find that most of my advice/recommendations etc are actually along these lines. As we are on a site that allows you to focus on macros, then I do suggest that people try to hit them (set appropriately for them), but I agree that many people can do this if they pay attention to their diet as a whole without having to actually log. The same goes for micronutrients and fiber. If you eat a balanced diet with a good proportion and mix of nutrient dense foods (fruits, veggies etc), then you are a long way to getting or exceeding your requirements. As I noted on a prior post, some people do better at avoiding certain trigger foods, some do better at not eating any non 'whole' foods for satiety reason etc, but at the end of the day, having flexible dieting as a starting point and adapting it to suit your needs is beneficial for the majority of people in my opinion.
Agreed
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Both sides shove **** down the other sides' throats and it's just a perpetual battle of stupidity.
What do those who don't eat clean shove downs people's throats, exactly? No one has ever said 'don't eat clean' but rather 'you don't have to eat clean'/'clean eating doesn't exist cause no foods are dirty/bad'. No one wants clean eaters to change or subscribe to a different diet.
This DOES happen all the time. I was on a thread the other day where someone posted that they were interested in making other friends who were into clean eating. Tons of posts ensued where people, unsolicited, pretty much stated that all clean eaters are preachy, pushy, misguided people. One poster suggested that people who eat clean just don't have self control (like she did) and should focus more on eating junk food in moderation (like she does) It happens ALL the time, here and in the real world. I'm paleo for a myriad of health reasons, but I try not to tell people because I get so tired of being told that doing so is wrong for whatever reason, and then I am either forced to go into my medical history to justify my choices or just nod and agree. I am sure that there are clean eaters who are preachy and judgmental, just like there are those in every group, but it seems that a lot of them venom gets spewed at clean eating as a lifestyle. I just don't get it. No worries, everybody, I won't offer you ANY suggestions or relate what has been helpful to me!
Do you have a link to this thread so we may check it out to verify your claims?
It very well could have been mine - turned into a flat out battle ground. Many of them sounded like a bunch of playground bullies. Fortunately, I found a few new friends in spite of it!0 -
Both sides shove **** down the other sides' throats and it's just a perpetual battle of stupidity.
^ This. All day long.0
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