November 2016 Running Challenge
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lporter229 wrote: »mom3over40 wrote: »
I have a question about running at conversational pace uphill: I have a lot of slopes in the neighborhood, is it better to walk uphill if I can't run slow enough to keep it at conversational? My guess is that walking maybe better for overall endurance. But I also wonder what is best for getting better in running those hills. I think my uphill runs are particularly terrible in the sense that I need to slow way down to feel the same comfort level as running relatively flat roads, sometimes up to 4 min/mile slower (15 min/mile vs 11 min/mile). It is particularly obvious when running in groups, people who may run flats around my pace can run uphill without showing as much discomfort faster...
Disclaimer: This answer is based purely on opinion and may be in conflict with what others may tell you. I do not walk up hills. I may slow my pace, but my heart rate is always elevated versus running on flat ground. I figure that the downhill portions of the run will tend to even things out. Even though I routinely run some hilly terrain on my slow runs, I tend to look at it as a bit of low intensity interval training. Some people say that hills are speed work in disguise. As long as you are not doing what amounts to heavy hill repeats, I really don't see the problem. I try to avoid them if I need a true recovery day though. Otherwise, I just embrace the hills. As you eluded to in your post, it's really the best way to get better at running them.
My breathing gets so out of control no matter how many hills I do. I just run them. Sometimes I just barrel up them as fast as I can to get it over with. If it's a downhill immediately after I jog down. If it levels off at the top, I might stop or walk 30 seconds to calm my breathing. But I figure if I don't run up them, I never will
Sometimes I do hill repeats on A HILL, other times I run a hilly route with many hills. But I only do hills once or twice a week. Usually once. LOL If I had to do hills every day, I probably would quit running :-p 2 -
lporter229 wrote: »mom3over40 wrote: »
I have a question about running at conversational pace uphill: I have a lot of slopes in the neighborhood, is it better to walk uphill if I can't run slow enough to keep it at conversational? My guess is that walking maybe better for overall endurance. But I also wonder what is best for getting better in running those hills. I think my uphill runs are particularly terrible in the sense that I need to slow way down to feel the same comfort level as running relatively flat roads, sometimes up to 4 min/mile slower (15 min/mile vs 11 min/mile). It is particularly obvious when running in groups, people who may run flats around my pace can run uphill without showing as much discomfort faster...
Disclaimer: This answer is based purely on opinion and may be in conflict with what others may tell you. I do not walk up hills. I may slow my pace, but my heart rate is always elevated versus running on flat ground. I figure that the downhill portions of the run will tend to even things out. Even though I routinely run some hilly terrain on my slow runs, I tend to look at it as a bit of low intensity interval training. Some people say that hills are speed work in disguise. As long as you are not doing what amounts to heavy hill repeats, I really don't see the problem. I try to avoid them if I need a true recovery day though. Otherwise, I just embrace the hills. As you eluded to in your post, it's really the best way to get better at running them.
^^^ This would have been very close to my answer.
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Goal: 50 Mi Run / 50 Mi Walk
11/1 3.28 mi run 3.28 mi run total
11/1 1.57 mi walk 1.57 mi walk total
11/3 4.44 mi run 7.72 mi run total
11/5 3.71 mi run 11.43 mi run total
11/5 1.08 mi walk 2.65 mi walk total
11/6 5.26 mi run 16.69 mi run total
11/6 0.71 mi walk 3.36 mi walk total
11/9 3.59 mi run 20.28 mi run total
11/10 4.01 mi run 24.29 mi run total
11/10 1.54 mi walk 4.9 mi walk total
11/12 3.23 mi run 27.52 mi run total
11/15 6.05 mi run 33.57 mi run total
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November walking miles
1---6.24
2---travel/pt/doc
3---3.1 walk, 25 minute swim, 2.8 walk
4--- travel
5---3.19
6,7,8--- Nada, pt, Nada
9---4.7
10---4.77
12---3.0
14---4.45
15---4.4 ran 0.1 mi uphill 2x
16---4 ran 0.1 mi 3x uphill -not easy. pt
40.69/50+
Not Advisable races:
12/11/16 BMW Dallas Marathon, Half (registered) DNS
Run the year 2016 898.42/ 2016 (DNF)
Advisable races:
March 19th 2017 RNR Half Dallas, TX
March 26th 2017 A2A 5k Ardmore, OK
April 30th 2017 OKC Memorial Marathon, Half2 -
16th: 0.86 miles running - treadmill, strength training and Pilates - MTD 21.810 -
I'm back! I skimmed through the 16 pages I had missed since my last post. Sounds like we had some awesome races! ( @Ohhim, @Stoshew71 and @jodilynnsanders5104 !) and few injuries
Our hunting trip to South Dakota was fantastic, as always. The three of us were one short of our limit for the 4 days we hunted. Kody was pretty beat up by the end from plowing through the fields, swamps, ditches, and trees. By the time we were done his paws were pretty rough and he was pretty beat. He wouldn't have it any other way though. He's now had a full week of recovery and I'll take him on a run tonight. @HeatherMN we hunt about 35 miles north of Kimball. I'm sure there are some who would object to dead animal photos so I put a couple of pictures here if you're interested, including what might be my all time favorite photo of Kody.
https://goo.gl/photos/DdYBrV2eqqzTcmSd6
I took 11 days off from running, not counting a 2.4 mile run to pick up one our cars at the shop but am back into it.
This past weekend I visited my daughter at college and ran in a Veterans Day 5K on Sunday. Thankfully it wasn't on Saturday because I was in no shape... Sunday was a different story, however. It was a beautiful, cool, sunny fall day for a race. Unfortunately my daughter has been having shin splints so we took several walk breaks and finished with a time I'm not even going to post. We had fun, though, so mission accomplished. The race was to benefit a couple different veterans groups on campus and the route was designed to pass by each of the 5 veterans memorials. They had a record turnout with over 300 registered. My Dad was a Korean War veteran and I carried his dog tags around my neck during the race, and raced in his honor. I think I'm going to carry it again during my ultra in April for motivation. He was in the middle of the nastiest fighting of the war where quitting meant dying. If I'm at a place in that race where I need strength, my dad will be there for me.
I'm not one who cares much about medals, but this was was VERY cool. Here are some race photos:
As I mentioned, my daughter has been having shin splints. When I saw her running shoes, which she wears all the time, I just shook my head. After the race I took her to the running store and got her a new pair of shoes and a pair of socks. I hope that takes care of the problem. If not I'll have to hunt down the advice and info that @Stoshew71 posted a few months back.
That shopping trip set me back on my schedule. On the way home I planned a 10 mile trail run in Kansas City, KS on a loop where I'm planning a 20 mile trail race in February, the Psycho WyCo. I wanted to run the loop to get an idea of what I would be facing. I didn't get there until 3pm, 3 hours after I had planned. With daylight short, my phone battery getting low, and no headlamp, I bailed out on the trail at a few points and ended up with 6 miles of trail and 1.7 miles of road. I did get enough taste of the loop to know that it will be a hell of a run! Rocky and hilly. Parts are very unstable. At one point I glanced to my right to see what animal was rustling in the brush only to nearly trip on rock. Damn near bit it. I'm glad I bailed out of the trail when I did as the sun had set behind the hills about 2 miles prior to getting back to my car.
The last run to report is a 9.1 mile run last night to "officially" start my ultra training. It was made tougher by the fact that I came down a bug over the weekend and am tired and congested. The cold is my head rather than my chest so the conventional wisdom is to run, so run I did. Running seems to make me feel better, but it also wears me out quicker. At a pace of 9:48, I'm running a full minute faster pace than last year on my easy runs. One thing I'm doing different now is that instead of slowing down for the hills, I'm sprinting up the hills with a walk or slow jog for HR recovery.
The cold is worse today but the run tonight will just be 5 miles.
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Daily check in:
You know how sometimes it's hard to get out the door, but once you get out and start running you feel great? I did it the other way around today. I had my shirt off, and was about to put on my HRM and get into running clothes when I stopped and thought.
I had just a very minor twinge in the back of my left ankle. It's almost certainly related to the Achilles tendonitis that I'm recovering from. I didn't take my planned rest day on Monday. I've run 4 days in a row, over 3 miles continually the first three, and over 3 total yesterday with some speed work. An extra rest day wouldn't hurt.
There was a mental tug of war. I need that run to build up distance, should try for 4 miles. Only 8 days to Race with Grace, and it's a 10K. But I'd feel stupid if I went out to run 4 miles and set my recovery back a week. After 15 minutes of dithering, I decided to turn today into a rest day. I really wanted to go out and run. The weather was nice, 48° F (9° C) and overcast. Could have worn shorts and a long sleeve tech shirt, maybe light gloves. I know just the route I want to run 4 miles from home.
And I didn't do it. The other side of the mental argument said, Grace isn't a target race. Completing Grace is important, completing it fast isn't. Completing it running all the way isn't important. Completing it and being in good shape the next day is important.
So I made what I hope and believe is a good decision, a wise decision. And I thought about the old saying about good decisions:
Good decisions come from wisdom. Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from bad decisions.
Okay, I've had enough experience. Let's not have more than I need.6 -
@MobyCarp - you are a wise runner. Good advice.
@7lenny7 - oh my goodness, your daughter's shoes! How sweet - she didn't bug you for new running shoes.
She's adorable.
@MNLittleFinn - wow that's a lot of snow so early. Sounds scary to me, I'd slip!
@Elise4270 - glad to see you back run/walking! 2 -
I'm actually kind of looking forward to seeing how my trail shoes do in the snow. It's exactly 3 miles to do a loop around my town, so I figure I can do just over 3 loops and call it good, without ever being more than a mile or so from home.@MNLittleFinn - wow that's a lot of snow so early. Sounds scary to me, I'd slip
On the bright side, I'm 2 miles ahead of my plan for the month, and that plan gave me ~7 miles of buffer for reaching my goal, so cutting it short wouldn't bee too bad0 -
lporter229 wrote: »mom3over40 wrote: »I have a question about running at conversational pace uphill...
Disclaimer: This answer is based purely on opinion and may be in conflict with what others may tell you. I do not walk up hills. I may slow my pace, but my heart rate is always elevated versus running on flat ground...
@lporter229 I missed your question originally, and have often wondered this as I want to work hills into my routine even though the thing I'm ultimately training for (a marathon) is about as flat as can be! Does mean I end up doing hills occasionally on my easy days, and even at "normal" walking speed the main hills near my house is too long/steep for easy.
I have no experience/pedigree so can't talk with the authority of many of this group. To me, In those situations it seems right to go as slow as I can possibly go whilst keep good form running (and I'm super conscious about it on those slopes/at that speed!). I try never to walk unless pre-planned.
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11/1: 3 miles
11/2: rest
11/3: 4 miles
11/4: 3 miles
11/5: 7 miles
11/6: 5 miles
11/7: 3.6 miles
11/8: 4.4 miles
11/9: rest
11/10: 4 miles
11/11: 5 miles
11/12: 9 miles
11/13: 4 miles
11/14: 4 miles
11/15: 6 miles
11/16: 4 miles
TOTAL: 62/70
4 miles in 39:50 (9:58 pace). Had to convince myself to go out for my planned run. I told myself just to do 3 easy miles at an easy pace, which turned into 4 miles at a moderate pace...whoops. Felt the telltale nagging in my shin toward the end. Tomorrow WILL be 3 miles at a very easy pace and then a rest day on Friday.0 -
OSUbuckeye906 wrote: »11/1: 3 miles
11/2: rest
11/3: 4 miles
11/4: 3 miles
11/5: 7 miles
11/6: 5 miles
11/7: 3.6 miles
11/8: 4.4 miles
11/9: rest
11/10: 4 miles
11/11: 5 miles
11/12: 9 miles
11/13: 4 miles
11/14: 4 miles
11/15: 6 miles
11/16: 4 miles
TOTAL: 62/70
4 miles in 39:50 (9:58 pace). Had to convince myself to go out for my planned run. I told myself just to do 3 easy miles at an easy pace, which turned into 4 miles at a moderate pace...whoops. Felt the telltale nagging in my shin toward the end. Tomorrow WILL be 3 miles at a very easy pace and then a rest day on Friday.
Oops, forgot to update mileage. Total is 66/70 for the month (!!!).
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OSUbuckeye906 wrote: »OSUbuckeye906 wrote: »11/1: 3 miles
11/2: rest
11/3: 4 miles
11/4: 3 miles
11/5: 7 miles
11/6: 5 miles
11/7: 3.6 miles
11/8: 4.4 miles
11/9: rest
11/10: 4 miles
11/11: 5 miles
11/12: 9 miles
11/13: 4 miles
11/14: 4 miles
11/15: 6 miles
11/16: 4 miles
TOTAL: 62/70
4 miles in 39:50 (9:58 pace). Had to convince myself to go out for my planned run. I told myself just to do 3 easy miles at an easy pace, which turned into 4 miles at a moderate pace...whoops. Felt the telltale nagging in my shin toward the end. Tomorrow WILL be 3 miles at a very easy pace and then a rest day on Friday.
Oops, forgot to update mileage. Total is 66/70 for the month (!!!).
@OSUbuckeye906 nice running!0 -
Went for a trail run again tonight. Saw a whole lot of deer.
Updated tracker:
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Date Miles MTD ------ ----- ------- Nov 5 6.2 6.2 Nov 6 5.0 11.2 Nov 7 2.0T 13.2 (+20M Bike @15) Nov 15 3.2T 16.4 (+10M Bike @15) Nov 16 3.3T 19.7 (+10M Bike @15)
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I'd say go for it!Since I've done 4 half marathons since June, but have never done an actual HM race, I'm wondering if I should do an event on November 26, considering I just did a HM on Sunday November 13.
ETA: Now the website is saying it's on December 4. Even better.
@witchy_wife Welcome! My advice would pretty much mirror everybody else's but I do want to add that I think the C25K app/program is a great starting point for new runners who don't really know where to begin.
@lissadecker Glad you're feeling better and back at it!MNLittleFinn wrote: »Forecast says I'll get 5-8 inches of snow on Friday. That will make my planned 10 miler on Saturday more interesting.
Weather here is supposed to go from 70 and sunny on Friday to 40 windy and rainy on Saturday. Sunday isn't supposed to be much better at a high of 38 and 30 mph winds. Waiting to see what the hourly forecast looks like for Saturday morning before I decide if I'll change my plan or not. Good luck in the snow! And thank you!MNLittleFinn wrote: »@OSUbuckeye906 nice running!
@MobyCarp Smart decision. I've been trying to listen to my body when it's telling me I'm doing too much, but I need to be a little wiser sometimes.
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Thanks @lporter229 @greenolivetree and @Stoshew71
I guess I want to make sure I am on the right track. I picked a path that cover almost 300 ft elevation in about 1.5 miles to run frequently so I can feel comfortable with that (both HM I ran earlier cover that kind of elevation). In fact, it is quite difficult to find a nearby routes to cover 5+ miles without that kind of elevation unless I run around the neighborhood park in circles...
I just start to think, with all the ups and downs in my neighborhood, I probably spend half the time running uphills. While I am trying to work on running conversational pace, these hills are making it harder. I just start to wonder how to "balance", so to speak. I do run my weekly long runs on flat surface (which involves driving to another area).
Here is a screenshot of my run yesterday from Strava:
You can see the dramatic ups and downs of my pace (blue line) and the ups and downs of the elevation. I do have a slower average pace on these runs than my long runs on flat surface, would you consider that pretty much "even out" to a pace that I should be running in?
ETA: Thanks @dkabambe too. I did not see your response earlier.0 -
11/1: 3
11/4: 4.2
11/6: 6
11/8: 3
11/10: 4
11/13: 7
11/16: 2.3
29.5 of 60
Training for: Key West Half Marathon, Jan 15, 2017
Nice little evening run under the big moon. Busy week, so I'm glad to get this one in. I'm needing to juggle my workout schedule a bit this week because of work demands.s
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@mom3over40 - If your target HM has elevation changes like the run you profiled, you want to run some of your long runs with hills, too. Maybe one week flat just to control pace, the next week hilly and do the best you can to control level of effort without worrying about being slower uphill than downhill. If you're going to run a HM with a major hill at mile 11, you want to train yourself to keep running uphill on tired legs.
I about had to quit running on the uphill portion of my first 10K, which was advertised as "some inclines and declines, but no major hills." The first HM I was pointing at advertised as hilly. So I came back from that 10K and ran lots and lots of hills. The next year, same 10K, the course looked a lot more like inclines and declines with no major hill. No Big Deal.
Seriously, running lots of hills in training really helps with those long hilly races.1 -
Into a new training programme which means having to double up my gym and run days. So I'm wiped out by the time I run. Hopefully I'll get used to it in time.
1 November 5.57km run
2 November 2.4km swim
3 November 6km run
4 November 8km run
5 November 2.15km swim
6 November 3.43km run
7 November 1.9km swim
8 November 3.1km run
9 November 2.2km swim
10 November 2.3km walk
11 November rest day
12 November 1.1km swim at nationals
13 November 5.67km run
14 November 2.1km swim
15 November gym plus 3km run
16 November 1.6km swim
17 November gym plus 3km run
Running goal: 50km
Swimming goal: 25km
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