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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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Ok, but the fact you say no, does not mean that the pressure to conform to a cultural norm...eating the cake or drinking...does not exist. It does exist and it encourages a behaviour that is not healthy.cmriverside wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »vegaslounge wrote: »I'm late to the thread (it's been a fun read!) but figured I'd throw in my two cents...
I hate the "my coworker is trying to sabotage my weight loss by bringing in treats!" whine. And I don't just say this as a coworker who brings in said treats, I say it as a human being who has free will and doesn't have a paranoid chip on her shoulder, chocolate or otherwise.
You are not so special, and the world not so petty, that Becky from accounting is trying to derail your – yes, YOUR! PERSONAL!– weight loss goals. Even if she is, you aren't tied to your office chair while she crams cookies fois gras-style down your gullet (if this is the case, I think OSHA would be a better organization to contact than MFP). Occam's razor would say that your coworker is trying to be nice and, also, you aren't the only person in the office, buttercup. Maybe Josh from marketing or that guy who delivers the mail whom you've never bothered to learn the name of would like an afternoon pick-me-up.
The "solutions" to this "problem" are usually just as bad. I especially hate the, "throw it away in front of them, they'll get the hint" one. Again, I AM that coworker who brings in homemade goods, and based on feedback, I am a damn good cook. I've also lost 35lb in the last year. I love to bake (it's very soothing) but I don't have much of a sweet tooth so I undoubtedly make more than I know I'd eat for weeks. So, why not share the bounty? Honestly, if a coworker accepted a brownie and then made sure that I saw them throw it in the trash, I wouldn't "take the hint" that I'm not supposed to bring in treats. I'd be a little hurt because I put time, money and effort into doing something nice for the office and you're frankly coming across like a world-class kittenhole and remarkable egotist for no good reason. Even if your coworker is bringing in dollar-store doughnuts, they spent their money to be nice. Hell, my supervisor's treat last month sent me into anaphylaxis and I don't shout "murderer!" every time I see her (sometimes. Not every time.)
Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe there really are Brazil-esque businesses where your coworkers surround you chanting "EAT! THE! CAKE!!! EAT! THE! CAKE!!!" and you get a zap to the cajones if you refuse. Is that what real office jobs are like? I've worked in non-profits my professional career, we're kind of the hippies of the corporate world.
I personally think this cake culture is a damaging maladaption. It's not a "nice" thing to bring in fat pills. It's definitely a bad thing to do. But because we have a cake culture in offices, it's almost expected that everyone take their turn bringing in sugary, fatty foods with which to tempt each other. Also to order and share a cake when a coworker has a birthday...yuck. It's just not a healthy practice for us humans to have adopted and yet we have and there's all kind of societal expectations around accepting the food, taking your turn to bring in food, etc. The sooner gone the better.
You've inspired me...I plan to bring in donuts for my team tomorrow.
Seriously, there's no reason we can't eat sweets in moderation, especially as part of a celebration of a person and/or their achievements.
Lol. I hate sweets. Cannot stomach icing...so sweet my teeth hurt. So to me, it's torture to have to pretend to eat some kind of gooey treat. Blerg.
Or you could just not eat it.
I don't. But I see and watch others get pressured into eating this stuff when they'd obviously rather wouldn't.
That's their fault for acquiescing. Not the fault of "cake culture".
Really? So would you apply this thought process to other cultural practices which encourage certain behaviours? Such as encouraging young teens to engage in drinking, but when they do drink to say it's all their fault for swallowing the alcoholic beverages?
Yes. I don't drink alcohol. Guess how I do that in "party" atmospheres?
"No, thanks."
See my post above for more ^^
And the fact that she can say no despite the existence of "pressure to conform" is evidence that said pressure does not hold all power in dictating our decisions.5 -
Ok, but the fact you say no, does not mean that the pressure to conform to a cultural norm...eating the cake or drinking...does not exist. It does exist and it encourages a behaviour that is not healthy.cmriverside wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »vegaslounge wrote: »I'm late to the thread (it's been a fun read!) but figured I'd throw in my two cents...
I hate the "my coworker is trying to sabotage my weight loss by bringing in treats!" whine. And I don't just say this as a coworker who brings in said treats, I say it as a human being who has free will and doesn't have a paranoid chip on her shoulder, chocolate or otherwise.
You are not so special, and the world not so petty, that Becky from accounting is trying to derail your – yes, YOUR! PERSONAL!– weight loss goals. Even if she is, you aren't tied to your office chair while she crams cookies fois gras-style down your gullet (if this is the case, I think OSHA would be a better organization to contact than MFP). Occam's razor would say that your coworker is trying to be nice and, also, you aren't the only person in the office, buttercup. Maybe Josh from marketing or that guy who delivers the mail whom you've never bothered to learn the name of would like an afternoon pick-me-up.
The "solutions" to this "problem" are usually just as bad. I especially hate the, "throw it away in front of them, they'll get the hint" one. Again, I AM that coworker who brings in homemade goods, and based on feedback, I am a damn good cook. I've also lost 35lb in the last year. I love to bake (it's very soothing) but I don't have much of a sweet tooth so I undoubtedly make more than I know I'd eat for weeks. So, why not share the bounty? Honestly, if a coworker accepted a brownie and then made sure that I saw them throw it in the trash, I wouldn't "take the hint" that I'm not supposed to bring in treats. I'd be a little hurt because I put time, money and effort into doing something nice for the office and you're frankly coming across like a world-class kittenhole and remarkable egotist for no good reason. Even if your coworker is bringing in dollar-store doughnuts, they spent their money to be nice. Hell, my supervisor's treat last month sent me into anaphylaxis and I don't shout "murderer!" every time I see her (sometimes. Not every time.)
Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe there really are Brazil-esque businesses where your coworkers surround you chanting "EAT! THE! CAKE!!! EAT! THE! CAKE!!!" and you get a zap to the cajones if you refuse. Is that what real office jobs are like? I've worked in non-profits my professional career, we're kind of the hippies of the corporate world.
I personally think this cake culture is a damaging maladaption. It's not a "nice" thing to bring in fat pills. It's definitely a bad thing to do. But because we have a cake culture in offices, it's almost expected that everyone take their turn bringing in sugary, fatty foods with which to tempt each other. Also to order and share a cake when a coworker has a birthday...yuck. It's just not a healthy practice for us humans to have adopted and yet we have and there's all kind of societal expectations around accepting the food, taking your turn to bring in food, etc. The sooner gone the better.
You've inspired me...I plan to bring in donuts for my team tomorrow.
Seriously, there's no reason we can't eat sweets in moderation, especially as part of a celebration of a person and/or their achievements.
Lol. I hate sweets. Cannot stomach icing...so sweet my teeth hurt. So to me, it's torture to have to pretend to eat some kind of gooey treat. Blerg.
Or you could just not eat it.
I don't. But I see and watch others get pressured into eating this stuff when they'd obviously rather wouldn't.
That's their fault for acquiescing. Not the fault of "cake culture".
Really? So would you apply this thought process to other cultural practices which encourage certain behaviours? Such as encouraging young teens to engage in drinking, but when they do drink to say it's all their fault for swallowing the alcoholic beverages?
Yes. I don't drink alcohol. Guess how I do that in "party" atmospheres?
"No, thanks."
See my post above for more ^^
See this is where you completely lose me in this argument. Eating cake in itself is not unhealthy. Eating the whole cake would be. I can eat a piece of cake and still be well within my calorie goals for the day. Having a beer when I am out for a very rare date night with my wife is not unhealthy. If I were to do a kegstand followed by a half dozen shots of Jaeger then that would be unhealthy.
Throughout this thread it has been preached over and over again that moderation is key and that is no different in this situation. I have no idea why you would feel the need to pretend to eat something. Maybe try being an adult and just politely declining. You say it is "not polite" for co-workers to bring in treats and I think you are completely wrong. I think it is a nice gesture on their part and not a personal vendetta directed at you.
I never said it was a personal vendetta or anything of the sort. All I've done is point out that it's a cultural practice, "cake culture" which is by definition impersonal. Also that it is unhealthy and imho not a nice thing to do. Yes moderation is key in all things BUT who needs to snack on unhealthy foods while doing a very sedentary job? How is it healthy to do so? How is it "nice" or "kind" to encourage unhealthy snacking in coworkers? Why should we have to resist pressure to conform?
Just... say... no...7 -
So many people have been socialised by cake culture into thinking it's a nice gesture or a kindness when people bring in unhealthy snacks. They literally cannot open their minds enough to look at it objectively. It used to be considered a polite thing to offer a person a cigarette even at work....a nice thing to do...now people would be like, are you seriously offering me a cancer stick? Culture can and does change over time. One day I hope people will view these fat pills the same way and that cake culture will change.14
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Ok, but the fact you say no, does not mean that the pressure to conform to a cultural norm...eating the cake or drinking...does not exist. It does exist and it encourages a behaviour that is not healthy.cmriverside wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »vegaslounge wrote: »I'm late to the thread (it's been a fun read!) but figured I'd throw in my two cents...
I hate the "my coworker is trying to sabotage my weight loss by bringing in treats!" whine. And I don't just say this as a coworker who brings in said treats, I say it as a human being who has free will and doesn't have a paranoid chip on her shoulder, chocolate or otherwise.
You are not so special, and the world not so petty, that Becky from accounting is trying to derail your – yes, YOUR! PERSONAL!– weight loss goals. Even if she is, you aren't tied to your office chair while she crams cookies fois gras-style down your gullet (if this is the case, I think OSHA would be a better organization to contact than MFP). Occam's razor would say that your coworker is trying to be nice and, also, you aren't the only person in the office, buttercup. Maybe Josh from marketing or that guy who delivers the mail whom you've never bothered to learn the name of would like an afternoon pick-me-up.
The "solutions" to this "problem" are usually just as bad. I especially hate the, "throw it away in front of them, they'll get the hint" one. Again, I AM that coworker who brings in homemade goods, and based on feedback, I am a damn good cook. I've also lost 35lb in the last year. I love to bake (it's very soothing) but I don't have much of a sweet tooth so I undoubtedly make more than I know I'd eat for weeks. So, why not share the bounty? Honestly, if a coworker accepted a brownie and then made sure that I saw them throw it in the trash, I wouldn't "take the hint" that I'm not supposed to bring in treats. I'd be a little hurt because I put time, money and effort into doing something nice for the office and you're frankly coming across like a world-class kittenhole and remarkable egotist for no good reason. Even if your coworker is bringing in dollar-store doughnuts, they spent their money to be nice. Hell, my supervisor's treat last month sent me into anaphylaxis and I don't shout "murderer!" every time I see her (sometimes. Not every time.)
Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe there really are Brazil-esque businesses where your coworkers surround you chanting "EAT! THE! CAKE!!! EAT! THE! CAKE!!!" and you get a zap to the cajones if you refuse. Is that what real office jobs are like? I've worked in non-profits my professional career, we're kind of the hippies of the corporate world.
I personally think this cake culture is a damaging maladaption. It's not a "nice" thing to bring in fat pills. It's definitely a bad thing to do. But because we have a cake culture in offices, it's almost expected that everyone take their turn bringing in sugary, fatty foods with which to tempt each other. Also to order and share a cake when a coworker has a birthday...yuck. It's just not a healthy practice for us humans to have adopted and yet we have and there's all kind of societal expectations around accepting the food, taking your turn to bring in food, etc. The sooner gone the better.
You've inspired me...I plan to bring in donuts for my team tomorrow.
Seriously, there's no reason we can't eat sweets in moderation, especially as part of a celebration of a person and/or their achievements.
Lol. I hate sweets. Cannot stomach icing...so sweet my teeth hurt. So to me, it's torture to have to pretend to eat some kind of gooey treat. Blerg.
Or you could just not eat it.
I don't. But I see and watch others get pressured into eating this stuff when they'd obviously rather wouldn't.
That's their fault for acquiescing. Not the fault of "cake culture".
Really? So would you apply this thought process to other cultural practices which encourage certain behaviours? Such as encouraging young teens to engage in drinking, but when they do drink to say it's all their fault for swallowing the alcoholic beverages?
Yes. I don't drink alcohol. Guess how I do that in "party" atmospheres?
"No, thanks."
See my post above for more ^^
See this is where you completely lose me in this argument. Eating cake in itself is not unhealthy. Eating the whole cake would be. I can eat a piece of cake and still be well within my calorie goals for the day. Having a beer when I am out for a very rare date night with my wife is not unhealthy. If I were to do a kegstand followed by a half dozen shots of Jaeger then that would be unhealthy.
Throughout this thread it has been preached over and over again that moderation is key and that is no different in this situation. I have no idea why you would feel the need to pretend to eat something. Maybe try being an adult and just politely declining. You say it is "not polite" for co-workers to bring in treats and I think you are completely wrong. I think it is a nice gesture on their part and not a personal vendetta directed at you.
I never said it was a personal vendetta or anything of the sort. All I've done is point out that it's a cultural practice, "cake culture" which is by definition impersonal. Also that it is unhealthy and imho not a nice thing to do. Yes moderation is key in all things BUT who needs to snack on unhealthy foods while doing a very sedentary job? How is it healthy to do so? How is it "nice" or "kind" to encourage unhealthy snacking in coworkers? Why should we have to resist pressure to conform?
If a food is unhealthy, then it's not good for anyone -- including those with more active jobs. I think you're using "unhealthy" as a synonym for "calorie-dense) (which cake can certainly be) and that can be confusing.
Your assumption is that cake will put everyone over their calorie goals, but that isn't true. I work in an office where cake sometimes appears and plenty of people are apparently able to eat it and still maintain a healthy weight (some, of course, aren't). The problem isn't the cake.
The assumption that adults have to be protected from cake is silly. People who want to maintain their weight will find a way to do so, whether that means turning down a piece of cake or adjusting their eating so the cake doesn't cause a calorie excess for them.
Why should people stop doing something that is meaningful to them and builds community in the office?15 -
Ok, but the fact you say no, does not mean that the pressure to conform to a cultural norm...eating the cake or drinking...does not exist. It does exist and it encourages a behaviour that is not healthy.cmriverside wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »vegaslounge wrote: »I'm late to the thread (it's been a fun read!) but figured I'd throw in my two cents...
I hate the "my coworker is trying to sabotage my weight loss by bringing in treats!" whine. And I don't just say this as a coworker who brings in said treats, I say it as a human being who has free will and doesn't have a paranoid chip on her shoulder, chocolate or otherwise.
You are not so special, and the world not so petty, that Becky from accounting is trying to derail your – yes, YOUR! PERSONAL!– weight loss goals. Even if she is, you aren't tied to your office chair while she crams cookies fois gras-style down your gullet (if this is the case, I think OSHA would be a better organization to contact than MFP). Occam's razor would say that your coworker is trying to be nice and, also, you aren't the only person in the office, buttercup. Maybe Josh from marketing or that guy who delivers the mail whom you've never bothered to learn the name of would like an afternoon pick-me-up.
The "solutions" to this "problem" are usually just as bad. I especially hate the, "throw it away in front of them, they'll get the hint" one. Again, I AM that coworker who brings in homemade goods, and based on feedback, I am a damn good cook. I've also lost 35lb in the last year. I love to bake (it's very soothing) but I don't have much of a sweet tooth so I undoubtedly make more than I know I'd eat for weeks. So, why not share the bounty? Honestly, if a coworker accepted a brownie and then made sure that I saw them throw it in the trash, I wouldn't "take the hint" that I'm not supposed to bring in treats. I'd be a little hurt because I put time, money and effort into doing something nice for the office and you're frankly coming across like a world-class kittenhole and remarkable egotist for no good reason. Even if your coworker is bringing in dollar-store doughnuts, they spent their money to be nice. Hell, my supervisor's treat last month sent me into anaphylaxis and I don't shout "murderer!" every time I see her (sometimes. Not every time.)
Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe there really are Brazil-esque businesses where your coworkers surround you chanting "EAT! THE! CAKE!!! EAT! THE! CAKE!!!" and you get a zap to the cajones if you refuse. Is that what real office jobs are like? I've worked in non-profits my professional career, we're kind of the hippies of the corporate world.
I personally think this cake culture is a damaging maladaption. It's not a "nice" thing to bring in fat pills. It's definitely a bad thing to do. But because we have a cake culture in offices, it's almost expected that everyone take their turn bringing in sugary, fatty foods with which to tempt each other. Also to order and share a cake when a coworker has a birthday...yuck. It's just not a healthy practice for us humans to have adopted and yet we have and there's all kind of societal expectations around accepting the food, taking your turn to bring in food, etc. The sooner gone the better.
You've inspired me...I plan to bring in donuts for my team tomorrow.
Seriously, there's no reason we can't eat sweets in moderation, especially as part of a celebration of a person and/or their achievements.
Lol. I hate sweets. Cannot stomach icing...so sweet my teeth hurt. So to me, it's torture to have to pretend to eat some kind of gooey treat. Blerg.
Or you could just not eat it.
I don't. But I see and watch others get pressured into eating this stuff when they'd obviously rather wouldn't.
That's their fault for acquiescing. Not the fault of "cake culture".
Really? So would you apply this thought process to other cultural practices which encourage certain behaviours? Such as encouraging young teens to engage in drinking, but when they do drink to say it's all their fault for swallowing the alcoholic beverages?
Yes. I don't drink alcohol. Guess how I do that in "party" atmospheres?
"No, thanks."
See my post above for more ^^
See this is where you completely lose me in this argument. Eating cake in itself is not unhealthy. Eating the whole cake would be. I can eat a piece of cake and still be well within my calorie goals for the day. Having a beer when I am out for a very rare date night with my wife is not unhealthy. If I were to do a kegstand followed by a half dozen shots of Jaeger then that would be unhealthy.
Throughout this thread it has been preached over and over again that moderation is key and that is no different in this situation. I have no idea why you would feel the need to pretend to eat something. Maybe try being an adult and just politely declining. You say it is "not polite" for co-workers to bring in treats and I think you are completely wrong. I think it is a nice gesture on their part and not a personal vendetta directed at you.
I never said it was a personal vendetta or anything of the sort. All I've done is point out that it's a cultural practice, "cake culture" which is by definition impersonal. Also that it is unhealthy and imho not a nice thing to do. Yes moderation is key in all things BUT who needs to snack on unhealthy foods while doing a very sedentary job? How is it healthy to do so? How is it "nice" or "kind" to encourage unhealthy snacking in coworkers? Why should we have to resist pressure to conform?
I have a desk job. I also walk 15K steps/day. If I want to eat a piece of cake when someone brings it in to celebrate a birthday or retirement, I absolutely can, and it does not derail my goals or progress. Why would that be perceived as impersonal (quite the opposite) or that someone encouraged me to be unhealthy? Eat it or don't eat it, but no one is forcing it down someone's throat with nefarious intentions.13 -
Ok, but the fact you say no, does not mean that the pressure to conform to a cultural norm...eating the cake or drinking...does not exist. It does exist and it encourages a behaviour that is not healthy.cmriverside wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »vegaslounge wrote: »I'm late to the thread (it's been a fun read!) but figured I'd throw in my two cents...
I hate the "my coworker is trying to sabotage my weight loss by bringing in treats!" whine. And I don't just say this as a coworker who brings in said treats, I say it as a human being who has free will and doesn't have a paranoid chip on her shoulder, chocolate or otherwise.
You are not so special, and the world not so petty, that Becky from accounting is trying to derail your – yes, YOUR! PERSONAL!– weight loss goals. Even if she is, you aren't tied to your office chair while she crams cookies fois gras-style down your gullet (if this is the case, I think OSHA would be a better organization to contact than MFP). Occam's razor would say that your coworker is trying to be nice and, also, you aren't the only person in the office, buttercup. Maybe Josh from marketing or that guy who delivers the mail whom you've never bothered to learn the name of would like an afternoon pick-me-up.
The "solutions" to this "problem" are usually just as bad. I especially hate the, "throw it away in front of them, they'll get the hint" one. Again, I AM that coworker who brings in homemade goods, and based on feedback, I am a damn good cook. I've also lost 35lb in the last year. I love to bake (it's very soothing) but I don't have much of a sweet tooth so I undoubtedly make more than I know I'd eat for weeks. So, why not share the bounty? Honestly, if a coworker accepted a brownie and then made sure that I saw them throw it in the trash, I wouldn't "take the hint" that I'm not supposed to bring in treats. I'd be a little hurt because I put time, money and effort into doing something nice for the office and you're frankly coming across like a world-class kittenhole and remarkable egotist for no good reason. Even if your coworker is bringing in dollar-store doughnuts, they spent their money to be nice. Hell, my supervisor's treat last month sent me into anaphylaxis and I don't shout "murderer!" every time I see her (sometimes. Not every time.)
Maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe there really are Brazil-esque businesses where your coworkers surround you chanting "EAT! THE! CAKE!!! EAT! THE! CAKE!!!" and you get a zap to the cajones if you refuse. Is that what real office jobs are like? I've worked in non-profits my professional career, we're kind of the hippies of the corporate world.
I personally think this cake culture is a damaging maladaption. It's not a "nice" thing to bring in fat pills. It's definitely a bad thing to do. But because we have a cake culture in offices, it's almost expected that everyone take their turn bringing in sugary, fatty foods with which to tempt each other. Also to order and share a cake when a coworker has a birthday...yuck. It's just not a healthy practice for us humans to have adopted and yet we have and there's all kind of societal expectations around accepting the food, taking your turn to bring in food, etc. The sooner gone the better.
You've inspired me...I plan to bring in donuts for my team tomorrow.
Seriously, there's no reason we can't eat sweets in moderation, especially as part of a celebration of a person and/or their achievements.
Lol. I hate sweets. Cannot stomach icing...so sweet my teeth hurt. So to me, it's torture to have to pretend to eat some kind of gooey treat. Blerg.
Or you could just not eat it.
I don't. But I see and watch others get pressured into eating this stuff when they'd obviously rather wouldn't.
That's their fault for acquiescing. Not the fault of "cake culture".
Really? So would you apply this thought process to other cultural practices which encourage certain behaviours? Such as encouraging young teens to engage in drinking, but when they do drink to say it's all their fault for swallowing the alcoholic beverages?
Yes. I don't drink alcohol. Guess how I do that in "party" atmospheres?
"No, thanks."
See my post above for more ^^
See this is where you completely lose me in this argument. Eating cake in itself is not unhealthy. Eating the whole cake would be. I can eat a piece of cake and still be well within my calorie goals for the day. Having a beer when I am out for a very rare date night with my wife is not unhealthy. If I were to do a kegstand followed by a half dozen shots of Jaeger then that would be unhealthy.
Throughout this thread it has been preached over and over again that moderation is key and that is no different in this situation. I have no idea why you would feel the need to pretend to eat something. Maybe try being an adult and just politely declining. You say it is "not polite" for co-workers to bring in treats and I think you are completely wrong. I think it is a nice gesture on their part and not a personal vendetta directed at you.
I never said it was a personal vendetta or anything of the sort. All I've done is point out that it's a cultural practice, "cake culture" which is by definition impersonal. Also that it is unhealthy and imho not a nice thing to do. Yes moderation is key in all things BUT who needs to snack on unhealthy foods while doing a very sedentary job? How is it healthy to do so? How is it "nice" or "kind" to encourage unhealthy snacking in coworkers? Why should we have to resist pressure to conform?
I think I understand where you are coming from. I have found the office culture to be generally one of overeating and under-exercising. Those high-calorie foods (like cake) that are brought into the office aren't the totality of the problem, but heaping more excess calories on top of the general overeating isn't helpful.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Today I learned that bringing cake into work is not a nice thing to do. Wow. What's next? Saying bless you to someone who sneezes is an insult? Opening a door for someone who has their hands full is degrading?
I did completely get cussed out by a lady for holding the door open for her at Target once. She said something along the lines of "I can open the door for my *kitten* self". I couldn't believe it.1 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
I'll stick with my strong heart and plentiful food from weightlifting and HIIT. More bang for the buck.
Not in my experience. Can't sustain HIIT long enough to burn any meaningful amount of calories, and whatever I burn I eat back twofold or more because it increases my hunger substantially. Now don't get me wrong, no one has to do cardio (or weight lifting, or HIIT for that matter), but you can't call any form of exercise a waste of time because there are clear benefits to being active, health and otherwise.
Yes, sitting on your *kitten* is a much greater waste of time.
Since I don't like exercising in general, I'm going to spend the least amount of time possible to get the greatest benefit which means high intensity. I just want to get it over with so I can get back to thing I enjoy.
And that's totally alright! It's just, this sounds more like preference than opinion.
Nah, I still am not a fan of cardio(but it's better than nothing). I believe there are much greater benefits from high intensity exercise.
How do you know you don't burn as much calories doing HIIT? I believe that much shorter, high intensity exercise may not burn as much at the time, but the residual calorie burn from greater muscle stimulation lasts much longer resulting in more CO.
EPOC (Excess Post Exercise Oxygen Consunption) for HIIT is 14%, for Low Impact Steady State it's 7%. That's the % of residual burn of calories burned during. FWIW. HIIT can't be done for very long so the overall burn is not that big. If you could do 30 minutes of HIIT, your Butner with EPOCH would be about the same as 60 minutes of LISS but who can do 30 minutes of HIIT??
This would depend on the intensity of the HIIT. And as @GottaBurnEmAll stated not all "HIIT" is equal. To me, HIIT means the intervals are 100% all out.
That is the HIIT I'm talking about and in exercise physiology circle based on studies, that is the commonly accepted number. This was discussed in detail on the Lyle McDonald article sjomial linked to. It is also the number Dr. Brad Shoenfeld uses. It pretty objective and not really the subject of much speculation as to variance.
Less that 100% all out would not technically be HIIT but would be considered interval training. The EPOC would fall somewhere between LISS and HIIT depending on intensity. All HIIT is not equal because the Marketing woo machines call everything HIIT today. Things like 1 hours HIIT classes. If you can do it for 1 hour, it ain't HIIT!!
PS: The link sjomial gave is the 2nd in a series of in depth article about the subject and references a lot of the current research. If that is the link you are kind of dismissive of in one of your posts above, I suggest you didn't read it thoroughly. There are links to both the initial article in the series and the following ones at the bottom of the one posted.
I did read it, but I'll look at the references too. My main leaning to HIIT over cardio is that it is closer to weightlifting in it's muscle building potential... if I am not mistaken. However, I pretty much just lift and try to stay away from all that gross running stuff...
It's been said here already but...HIIT is cardio.
Then so is weightlifting....
Should I say ""aerobic exercise " to be specific?
In general, the cardiovascular benefits of weightlifting are secondary to muscle/strength building (there can be exceptions depending on the program).
The same can't be said for HIIT.
In general, the muscle/strength benefits of HIIT are secondary to the cardiovascular benefits.
I have found no conclusive evidence that aerobic exercise has greater CV benefits than anaerobic exercise. Neither did this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5329739/
"Despite all the research, further studies are still warranted to delve further into the impact that both aerobic and anaerobic exercise may have on human physiology to unequivocally determine if there is superiority of one type of exercise over another."
I wasn't comparing the cardiovascular benefits of aerobic vs anaerobic exercise.
I simply stated that weightlifting generally has greater strength/muscle building benefits which is not the case for cardio (including HIIT).
Ah, my mistake.
But this just reaffirms my opinion about steady state cardio. But I should clarify that: if someone is going to do one form of exercise, strength training is the way to go since it offers similar CV benefits, but also increases muscle mass. However, my opinion is heavily influence by my preference for a higher than average muscle mass. If the goal is simply to get skinny, the go for the cardio.5 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Today I learned that bringing cake into work is not a nice thing to do. Wow. What's next? Saying bless you to someone who sneezes is an insult? Opening a door for someone who has their hands full is degrading?
You really need to stop encouraging people to be sick...15 -
So many people have been socialised by cake culture into thinking it's a nice gesture or a kindness when people bring in unhealthy snacks. They literally cannot open their minds enough to look at it objectively. It used to be considered a polite thing to offer a person a cigarette even at work....a nice thing to do...now people would be like, are you seriously offering me a cancer stick? Culture can and does change over time. One day I hope people will view these fat pills the same way and that cake culture will change.
What is a fat pill? You keep saying that... what does that mean, to you? How is a slice of cake a "fat pill"?8 -
I just think it's funny that calling something a "maladaptation" and claiming that it "isn't nice" and that the sooner it's gone, the better is not demonizing it...8
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WinoGelato wrote: »Today I learned that bringing cake into work is not a nice thing to do. Wow. What's next? Saying bless you to someone who sneezes is an insult? Opening a door for someone who has their hands full is degrading?
I did completely get cussed out by a lady for holding the door open for her at Target once. She said something along the lines of "I can open the door for my *kitten* self". I couldn't believe it.
You should have kicked her in the a** as she walked in - that is something she would have had difficulty doing herself.
10 -
As long as someone will eat the cake, then someone is enjoying it. Why worry? It will get eaten or it will be thrown out. It doesn't affect me one way or the other.
2 -
crap, I walked away for a few minutes and lost the plot.3
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
I'll stick with my strong heart and plentiful food from weightlifting and HIIT. More bang for the buck.
Not in my experience. Can't sustain HIIT long enough to burn any meaningful amount of calories, and whatever I burn I eat back twofold or more because it increases my hunger substantially. Now don't get me wrong, no one has to do cardio (or weight lifting, or HIIT for that matter), but you can't call any form of exercise a waste of time because there are clear benefits to being active, health and otherwise.
Yes, sitting on your *kitten* is a much greater waste of time.
Since I don't like exercising in general, I'm going to spend the least amount of time possible to get the greatest benefit which means high intensity. I just want to get it over with so I can get back to thing I enjoy.
And that's totally alright! It's just, this sounds more like preference than opinion.
Nah, I still am not a fan of cardio(but it's better than nothing). I believe there are much greater benefits from high intensity exercise.
How do you know you don't burn as much calories doing HIIT? I believe that much shorter, high intensity exercise may not burn as much at the time, but the residual calorie burn from greater muscle stimulation lasts much longer resulting in more CO.
EPOC (Excess Post Exercise Oxygen Consunption) for HIIT is 14%, for Low Impact Steady State it's 7%. That's the % of residual burn of calories burned during. FWIW. HIIT can't be done for very long so the overall burn is not that big. If you could do 30 minutes of HIIT, your Butner with EPOCH would be about the same as 60 minutes of LISS but who can do 30 minutes of HIIT??
This would depend on the intensity of the HIIT. And as @GottaBurnEmAll stated not all "HIIT" is equal. To me, HIIT means the intervals are 100% all out.
That is the HIIT I'm talking about and in exercise physiology circle based on studies, that is the commonly accepted number. This was discussed in detail on the Lyle McDonald article sjomial linked to. It is also the number Dr. Brad Shoenfeld uses. It pretty objective and not really the subject of much speculation as to variance.
Less that 100% all out would not technically be HIIT but would be considered interval training. The EPOC would fall somewhere between LISS and HIIT depending on intensity. All HIIT is not equal because the Marketing woo machines call everything HIIT today. Things like 1 hours HIIT classes. If you can do it for 1 hour, it ain't HIIT!!
PS: The link sjomial gave is the 2nd in a series of in depth article about the subject and references a lot of the current research. If that is the link you are kind of dismissive of in one of your posts above, I suggest you didn't read it thoroughly. There are links to both the initial article in the series and the following ones at the bottom of the one posted.
I did read it, but I'll look at the references too. My main leaning to HIIT over cardio is that it is closer to weightlifting in it's muscle building potential... if I am not mistaken. However, I pretty much just lift and try to stay away from all that gross running stuff...
The studies that showed muscle building improvements were done with untrained subjects. In someone like you are me doing weight training that has not been demonstrated. In a trained individual, the benefit is primarily increase in VO2 max. HIIT in trained subjects provides cardio benefit.
If you read the series of articles, he covers all of this.
Ah..
So, I understand how HIIT would not improve muscle building in someone who lifts. But wouldn't it build muscle in someone who typically only does cardio (steady state)?
Possibly, I don't know. It wasn't one of the scenarios addressed.
It should. Think of HIIT (or any cardio workout) as a VERY long weightlifting set using VERY light weights. For example, if you're riding a bicycle for an hour and keep an average cadence of 80 rpm on the pedals you've just done 4,800 repetitions. That'll build muscle.5 -
cmriverside wrote: »crap, I walked away for a few minutes and lost the plot.
Cake is bad and anyone who brings you some is evil and wants to make you fat, unheatlhy and watch you die a slow death.
HIIT is now anything that temporarily elevates your heart rate and is far superior than any other form of exercise, with strength training a close second, and any sort of steady state cardio being a complete waste of time that only cake eating office workers would engage in.
Oh and anyone who says you can eat what you want and still lose weight is probably a cake pushing sadist also.
Oh, hang on. I might also be mixing things up.34 -
I'm sad for all the cakes feeling terrible now.
Just because someone has a desk job doesn't mean they're lazy AF. They just happen to have a job that isn't active. I'd say the bigger problem here is a culture of screens as entertainment in their various forms than the bringing of cakes to work. People who are more active have little issue fitting in calorie dense deliciousness into their day and why shouldn't they if they can.
Side note: cake doesn't give you cancer because of its toxicity, straw man to compare it to cigarettes.15 -
So many people have been socialised by cake culture into thinking it's a nice gesture or a kindness when people bring in unhealthy snacks. They literally cannot open their minds enough to look at it objectively. It used to be considered a polite thing to offer a person a cigarette even at work....a nice thing to do...now people would be like, are you seriously offering me a cancer stick? Culture can and does change over time. One day I hope people will view these fat pills the same way and that cake culture will change.
Cake causes cancer now???3 -
Made me smile! Now, I'm off to walk to the shopping mall and get my nephew his birthday present. Back in an hour and a half or so!0
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WinoGelato wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »crap, I walked away for a few minutes and lost the plot.
Cake is bad and anyone who brings you some is evil and wants to make you fat, unheatlhy and watch you die a slow death.
HIIT is now anything that temporarily elevates your heart rate and is far superior than any other form of exercise, with strength training a close second, and any sort of steady state cardio being a complete waste of time that only cake eating office workers would engage in.
Oh and anyone who says you can eat what you want and still lose weight is probably a cake pushing sadist also.
Oh, hang on. I might also be mixing things up.
There was something about offering alcohol to minors as well, but I didn't quite understand it's relevance...6 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Today I learned that bringing cake into work is not a nice thing to do. Wow. What's next? Saying bless you to someone who sneezes is an insult? Opening a door for someone who has their hands full is degrading?
You really need to stop encouraging people to be sick...
It can be depending on their level of superstition. It was once believed that sneezing was the soul trying to escape the body. The blessing was supposed to force it back in.
I prefer to say, 'Gesundheit.' (Roughly, 'good health to you.')3 -
estherdragonbat wrote: »Made me smile! Now, I'm off to walk to the shopping mall and get my nephew his birthday present. Back in an hour and a half or so!
But will there be cake at the birthday celebration?5 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
I'll stick with my strong heart and plentiful food from weightlifting and HIIT. More bang for the buck.
Not in my experience. Can't sustain HIIT long enough to burn any meaningful amount of calories, and whatever I burn I eat back twofold or more because it increases my hunger substantially. Now don't get me wrong, no one has to do cardio (or weight lifting, or HIIT for that matter), but you can't call any form of exercise a waste of time because there are clear benefits to being active, health and otherwise.
Yes, sitting on your *kitten* is a much greater waste of time.
Since I don't like exercising in general, I'm going to spend the least amount of time possible to get the greatest benefit which means high intensity. I just want to get it over with so I can get back to thing I enjoy.
And that's totally alright! It's just, this sounds more like preference than opinion.
Nah, I still am not a fan of cardio(but it's better than nothing). I believe there are much greater benefits from high intensity exercise.
How do you know you don't burn as much calories doing HIIT? I believe that much shorter, high intensity exercise may not burn as much at the time, but the residual calorie burn from greater muscle stimulation lasts much longer resulting in more CO.
EPOC (Excess Post Exercise Oxygen Consunption) for HIIT is 14%, for Low Impact Steady State it's 7%. That's the % of residual burn of calories burned during. FWIW. HIIT can't be done for very long so the overall burn is not that big. If you could do 30 minutes of HIIT, your Butner with EPOCH would be about the same as 60 minutes of LISS but who can do 30 minutes of HIIT??
This would depend on the intensity of the HIIT. And as @GottaBurnEmAll stated not all "HIIT" is equal. To me, HIIT means the intervals are 100% all out.
That is the HIIT I'm talking about and in exercise physiology circle based on studies, that is the commonly accepted number. This was discussed in detail on the Lyle McDonald article sjomial linked to. It is also the number Dr. Brad Shoenfeld uses. It pretty objective and not really the subject of much speculation as to variance.
Less that 100% all out would not technically be HIIT but would be considered interval training. The EPOC would fall somewhere between LISS and HIIT depending on intensity. All HIIT is not equal because the Marketing woo machines call everything HIIT today. Things like 1 hours HIIT classes. If you can do it for 1 hour, it ain't HIIT!!
PS: The link sjomial gave is the 2nd in a series of in depth article about the subject and references a lot of the current research. If that is the link you are kind of dismissive of in one of your posts above, I suggest you didn't read it thoroughly. There are links to both the initial article in the series and the following ones at the bottom of the one posted.
I did read it, but I'll look at the references too. My main leaning to HIIT over cardio is that it is closer to weightlifting in it's muscle building potential... if I am not mistaken. However, I pretty much just lift and try to stay away from all that gross running stuff...
It's been said here already but...HIIT is cardio.
Then so is weightlifting....
Should I say ""aerobic exercise " to be specific?
In general, the cardiovascular benefits of weightlifting are secondary to muscle/strength building (there can be exceptions depending on the program).
The same can't be said for HIIT.
In general, the muscle/strength benefits of HIIT are secondary to the cardiovascular benefits.
I have found no conclusive evidence that aerobic exercise has greater CV benefits than anaerobic exercise. Neither did this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5329739/
"Despite all the research, further studies are still warranted to delve further into the impact that both aerobic and anaerobic exercise may have on human physiology to unequivocally determine if there is superiority of one type of exercise over another."
I wasn't comparing the cardiovascular benefits of aerobic vs anaerobic exercise.
I simply stated that weightlifting generally has greater strength/muscle building benefits which is not the case for cardio (including HIIT).
Ah, my mistake.
But this just reaffirms my opinion about steady state cardio. But I should clarify that: if someone is going to do one form of exercise, strength training is the way to go since it offers similar CV benefits, but also increases muscle mass. However, my opinion is heavily influence by my preference for a higher than average muscle mass. If the goal is simply to get skinny, the go for the cardio.
That actually matches my approach...I tend to mainly focus on lifting without worrying too much about cardio (though I have been running more to build some steady state endurance and because my dog prefers it to walking).
That said, my original point was just that HIIT falls into the same category as steady state cardio for anyone who already lifts (but mmapags explained it better than I did).1 -
meh..1
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Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Today I learned that bringing cake into work is not a nice thing to do. Wow. What's next? Saying bless you to someone who sneezes is an insult? Opening a door for someone who has their hands full is degrading?
You really need to stop encouraging people to be sick...
It can be depending on their level of superstition. It was once believed that sneezing was the soul trying to escape the body. The blessing was supposed to force it back in.
I prefer to say, 'Gesundheit.' (Roughly, 'good health to you.')
I prefer gesundheit just because it's more fun to say.2 -
This is really funny. The opinion that is unpopular on a calorie counting, weight watching forum is one that thinks cake culture in unhealthy and not nice. Whereas the opinion that IS popular is the cake culture is perfectly healthy (in moderation and with personal accountability) and representative of people being nice and kind. Cake culture is strong on this site. Lol....19
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Carlos_421 wrote: »So many people have been socialised by cake culture into thinking it's a nice gesture or a kindness when people bring in unhealthy snacks. They literally cannot open their minds enough to look at it objectively. It used to be considered a polite thing to offer a person a cigarette even at work....a nice thing to do...now people would be like, are you seriously offering me a cancer stick? Culture can and does change over time. One day I hope people will view these fat pills the same way and that cake culture will change.
Cake causes cancer now???
Oh dear Carlos, you do not know what an analogy is? Should I define that for you?10 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Today I learned that bringing cake into work is not a nice thing to do. Wow. What's next? Saying bless you to someone who sneezes is an insult? Opening a door for someone who has their hands full is degrading?
You really need to stop encouraging people to be sick...
It can be depending on their level of superstition. It was once believed that sneezing was the soul trying to escape the body. The blessing was supposed to force it back in.
I prefer to say, 'Gesundheit.' (Roughly, 'good health to you.')
I prefer gesundheit just because it's more fun to say.
German is a fun language.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »So many people have been socialised by cake culture into thinking it's a nice gesture or a kindness when people bring in unhealthy snacks. They literally cannot open their minds enough to look at it objectively. It used to be considered a polite thing to offer a person a cigarette even at work....a nice thing to do...now people would be like, are you seriously offering me a cancer stick? Culture can and does change over time. One day I hope people will view these fat pills the same way and that cake culture will change.
Cake causes cancer now???
Oh dear Carlos, you do not know what an analogy is? Should I define that for you?
An analogy is fine. The one you used is poor.13 -
This is really funny. The opinion that is unpopular on a calorie counting, weight watching forum is one that thinks cake culture in unhealthy and not nice. Whereas the opinion that IS popular is the cake culture is perfectly healthy (in moderation and with personal accountability) and representative of people being nice and kind. Cake culture is strong on this site. Lol....
Go figure that people on a calorie counting site would declare a food healthy when consumed in moderation...15
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