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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?

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Replies

  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    @VintageFeline, Texans just think they're the inventers of things like chili and the interwebz.

    I thought Tennessee laid claim to the founder for the interwebz.

    Wait? What?? I thought that was Al Gore.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,458 Member
    @VintageFeline, Texans just think they're the inventers of things like chili and the interwebz.

    I thought Tennessee laid claim to the founder for the interwebz.

    Oh, yeah, that was the VP's home state.

    Meh, it's a "T" state. They're all the same.




    ^UO
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    I did not know people felt so passionately about beans in chili (or lack thereof). But whatever your preference at no point can you call it a stew. Or soup. WTF is that about!? And serving it with spaghetti? You over the ponders are a weird lot.

    As a Brit who experiences no regional variations of chili beyond are you fancy and put a bit of dark chocolate in and puts beans in if I have them and considers chili to be about the flavour more than anything (so I'm also cool with vegi varieties) I find this whole conversation entertaining. We probably break all kinds of rules though as it's most often served with rice here. Or loaded nachos.

    I am partial to a chili cheese dog when on your fine shores though.

    You just need to come back to the U.S. and go on a Chili Trail Pilgrimage. Or, better yet, a BBQ Trail Pilgrimage, if you want to see a real smackdown.

    For the record, although I happily eat any and all chili and BBQ, I favor a Virginia vinegar sauce over ribs or pulled pork (brisket is way down the list) and I will kick anyone's butt in a chili cook-off with my white chicken chili. The secret ingredient? Evil.

    I am so on board with a BBQ Trail Pilgrimage.
  • Ruatine
    Ruatine Posts: 3,424 Member
    I did not know people felt so passionately about beans in chili (or lack thereof). But whatever your preference at no point can you call it a stew. Or soup. WTF is that about!? And serving it with spaghetti? You over the ponders are a weird lot.

    As a Brit who experiences no regional variations of chili beyond are you fancy and put a bit of dark chocolate in and puts beans in if I have them and considers chili to be about the flavour more than anything (so I'm also cool with vegi varieties) I find this whole conversation entertaining. We probably break all kinds of rules though as it's most often served with rice here. Or loaded nachos.

    I am partial to a chili cheese dog when on your fine shores though.

    You just need to come back to the U.S. and go on a Chili Trail Pilgrimage. Or, better yet, a BBQ Trail Pilgrimage, if you want to see a real smackdown.

    For the record, although I happily eat any and all chili and BBQ, I favor a Virginia vinegar sauce over ribs or pulled pork (brisket is way down the list) and I will kick anyone's butt in a chili cook-off with my white chicken chili. The secret ingredient? Evil.

    I am so on board with a BBQ Trail Pilgrimage.

    I'd be down for that too. BBQ is yummy in all forms.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »
    bpetrosky wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    Macy9336 wrote: »
    oh how I would love to write my psych dissertation on cake culture in the workplace....haha!

    Why not? Another theme would be how it intersects with the individualism of American culture...hence the primary defence being along the lines of "it's your choice to eat or not eat the cake" "just say no" etc. How does cake culture play out in societies that value conformity over individualism?

    I'm not American. It intersects with my culture of being a human who has always, throughout history, shared food as social bonding.

    May I ask, what you are then? Although many cultures have commonalities, there is no one 'human' culture.

    Can you tell me of a human culture where sharing of food in times of celebration isn't a thing?

    In China, the traditional food to celebrate a birthday are peaches and noodles, not cake.

    But still food...........

    Yes. Ok, I didn't want to go there but honestly, you are not using the term "culture" correctly. The definition of culture is the customs, practices and beliefs of a particular people or society. By definition, there can be no universal human "culture". So your point that all humans share food is merely pointing out a commonality between cultures. Sorry, but there it is.

    Of course you didn't.

    I don't expect you to understand. After all you are a layman so are not as sensitive to the misuse of technical terminology.

    Something was niggling at me after reading this, and the search function helped my memory out a bit. My memory isn't as faulty as I sometimes think it is.

    You've posted that you're retired from working for 20 years in the Air Force on space program stuff and also that you worked as a grants officer with unlimited authority with academia at some point.

    I'm not sure where you are fitting in a claim to being an anthropologist now, or where the "cake culture" comes in either of these scenarios.

    You mean the Space Race was a billion dollar effort to defend our cake culture? I thought the Apollo program was all about the Moon Pies.

    I had an eclipse party for the last solar eclipse. Discovered that the only place in SE Wisconsin to find Moon Pies was Stop and Go stores (attached to BP gas stations). At least the Sun Chips were easier to find, but I did get enough Moon Pies for everyone who attended.

    I've never had a moon pie.

    ETA: Never mind, I just searched and it looks like a wagon wheel. I've had them. What kind of booze did you have?

    Bloody love a Wagon Wheel. Grossly offended they've shrunk since their 80s heyday.

    We now have Wagon Wheel ice cream sandwiches...

    633607_1.jpg

    I need these. For research purposes.....

    Stand back - #I'mabouttodoscience

    How the Hell do I not know about these?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    I witnessed cake culturalism yesterday. I attended a meeting where one of the participants brought in donuts for his birthday, and wow, were people ever excited. People were coming and going from the meeting, and those joining late were told that it was Joe's birthday and that they better get a donut before it was too late.

    Being a guest and an unfamiliar face, I was asked to get a donut maybe 4-5 times by different people. Towards lunch, there seemed to be some anxiety that I was going to experience deep regret if I didn't claim a donut for myself. It didn't fit into my eating plan yesterday so I politely declined and no one overtly judged me. It seemed like maybe some felt sorry for me because I didn't know what I was missing and that I was foolishly declining an amazing opportunity, as if I was rejecting some rare and exotic food that I would never have the chance to experience again.

    I have several more meetings scheduled with this group in the future, so I think that I will just put a donut on a plate, cover it with a napkin, and leave it on the table during the meeting. I think that will make certain people feel better.

    This is hilarious--I am cracking up over this. Were they, like, Dunkin Donuts, or were they actually something special? Because if they were comparable to the doughnuts known as "Amish Crack" around here, I can understand the concern that you experience the awesomeness.

    Apple cider donuts or go home!

    When people bring in breakfast here (maybe once a month?) there's usually some Munchkins plus bagels/cream cheese. Never seen anyone get too stoked about it, but it's just in the kitchen.

    A former intern brought in Stan's Donuts twice (over the course of a summer), which got a bit more enthusiasm, but no pressure to consume them (and we do have people who cut them in half and take a half). My Polish-American assistant, who bakes, brings in paczkis on Shrove Tuesday, and I always eat half of one (I am not a huge donut person -- unless apple cider, again -- but feel it's my tribute to the day and to Chicago).

    So, you can put this to the test; apparently Rise n' Roll sells at the Daley Plaza Farmer's Market. You have to try the cinnamon caramel powdered doughnut. https://risenroll.com/donuts/

    Okay, next time I get a chance I will, and will report back.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    I mostly think of chili as involving beans and ground meat, but there is also vegetarian chili, with no meat (but beans). I can accept the occasional beanless chili, though.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    This is all correct.
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    Around here, "noodles" is an all-encompassing term and includes Asian noodles, pasta, egg noodles, Spaetzle, etc.
  • Ruatine
    Ruatine Posts: 3,424 Member
    Hmm... I never thought to distinguish between noodles and pasta. From a culinary perspective, what's the difference? I could Google it, but eh, I'm feeling lazy.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    I'm not a chili expert, but isn't chili just bolognese with different spices?
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    Ruatine wrote: »
    Hmm... I never thought to distinguish between noodles and pasta. From a culinary perspective, what's the difference? I could Google it, but eh, I'm feeling lazy.

    https://www.clearspring.co.uk/blogs/news/12237057-the-difference-between-noodles-pasta
  • jdlobb
    jdlobb Posts: 1,232 Member
    Ruatine wrote: »
    Hmm... I never thought to distinguish between noodles and pasta. From a culinary perspective, what's the difference? I could Google it, but eh, I'm feeling lazy.

    https://www.clearspring.co.uk/blogs/news/12237057-the-difference-between-noodles-pasta

    I always thought "noodle" just referred to the form, not the ingredients.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    earlnabby wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    Around here, "noodles" is an all-encompassing term and includes Asian noodles, pasta, egg noodles, Spaetzle, etc.

    Same here.
  • Speziface
    Speziface Posts: 1,687 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    Speziface wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    Winter squash good (had my first of the season yesterday, delicata, although I have a pumpkin and a butternut ready to be prepared), pumpkin spice bad, other than in a pie on Thanksgiving. There's really nothing objectively bad about the mix of spices called pumpkin spice but that they are so overdone this time of the year, probably, so I admit to being curmudgeonly.

    Bringing us back round to Thanksgiving and in particular my vested interested in the Canadian one, my best friend is indeed resuming her hosting of a big feed and it shall be happening in two weeks. I get to get my pumpkin pie on. I laughed when she asked me today if I could make it. Psychic.

    IMO pumpkin pie is one of those things that must be made with fresh pumpkin rather than canned. It's a totally different taste.

    I've tried fresh a couple of times, and found the results awful. Also more work. Not trying again.

    I have to disagree; it's totally worth the trouble.

    Get the pie/sugar pumpkins; they're about the size of a cantelope. Quarter them, remove the seeds, brush lightly with olive oil, and bake at 350 until soft. Let them cool completely then puree the meat (NOT the skins). Measure 15oz at a time into containers and freeze until ready to use. It'll keep about six months. (I did my T-day pumpkin prep last weekend. B) )

    That's what I did, except the freezing. I even grew the bleepin' pie pumpkin.

    I encourage others to try it. It was fun. I hope they'll succeed, and be delighted. But my pie was Not Good, so I personally will not do it again. Ever.

    I reported my sad, sad story in case someone else has similar results, so that they need not feel lonely and pathetic . . . maybe just pathetic.

    I'd happily eat a slice of your delicious, delicious pie, though. ;)

    I don't have a fancy recipe; I just substitute in my pumpkin for the canned stuff in the traditional Libby's recipe. And I use Marie Calender's frozen pie crusts. It's pretty simple, and the fresh pumpkin makes a huge difference.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    I'm not a chili expert, but isn't chili just bolognese with different spices?

    More heat, no milk, plus beans and peppers.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    earlnabby wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    Around here, "noodles" is an all-encompassing term and includes Asian noodles, pasta, egg noodles, Spaetzle, etc.

    And was the cause of much confusion in my adolescent mind when watching US TV shows (mostly Friends TBH) when lasagne is being made but noodles being references. SO confused.
  • French_Peasant
    French_Peasant Posts: 1,639 Member
    I did not know people felt so passionately about beans in chili (or lack thereof). But whatever your preference at no point can you call it a stew. Or soup. WTF is that about!? And serving it with spaghetti? You over the ponders are a weird lot.

    As a Brit who experiences no regional variations of chili beyond are you fancy and put a bit of dark chocolate in and puts beans in if I have them and considers chili to be about the flavour more than anything (so I'm also cool with vegi varieties) I find this whole conversation entertaining. We probably break all kinds of rules though as it's most often served with rice here. Or loaded nachos.

    I am partial to a chili cheese dog when on your fine shores though.

    You just need to come back to the U.S. and go on a Chili Trail Pilgrimage. Or, better yet, a BBQ Trail Pilgrimage, if you want to see a real smackdown.

    For the record, although I happily eat any and all chili and BBQ, I favor a Virginia vinegar sauce over ribs or pulled pork (brisket is way down the list) and I will kick anyone's butt in a chili cook-off with my white chicken chili. The secret ingredient? Evil.

    I am so on board with a BBQ Trail Pilgrimage.

    One of these years, I am going to drive down Highway 61 from St. Louis to New Orleans, and I am going to eat all of the BBQ and listen to all the Delta Blues.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    I'm not a chili expert, but isn't chili just bolognese with different spices?

    More heat, no milk, plus beans and peppers.

    Bolognese has milk? :hushed:
    You learn new things every day.
    I'm no expert with meat things.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    I'm not a chili expert, but isn't chili just bolognese with different spices?

    More heat, no milk, plus beans and peppers.

    Bolognese has milk? :hushed:
    You learn new things every day.
    I'm no expert with meat things.

    Wait milk? Where is the milk? Milk in ragu? No no no no no no no no. No.
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    earlnabby wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    Around here, "noodles" is an all-encompassing term and includes Asian noodles, pasta, egg noodles, Spaetzle, etc.

    And was the cause of much confusion in my adolescent mind when watching US TV shows (mostly Friends TBH) when lasagne is being made but noodles being references. SO confused.

    I grew up in a small town with heavy German/Northern European influence so "noodles" usually meant wide egg noodles. As my horizons expanded, so did the things that were included as noodles. We made lasagna with lasagna noodles that were pasta. We made macaroni and cheese with noodles that were pasta. Many made schnitzel with a side of noodles that were Spaetzel.
  • Speziface
    Speziface Posts: 1,687 Member
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    I'm not a chili expert, but isn't chili just bolognese with different spices?

    More heat, no milk, plus beans and peppers.

    Bolognese has milk? :hushed:
    You learn new things every day.
    I'm no expert with meat things.

    Milk or (usually) cream to enhance the richness.

    But you could add some to chili for the same reason. It would also mellow the heat a little bit.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    earlnabby wrote: »
    earlnabby wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    Around here, "noodles" is an all-encompassing term and includes Asian noodles, pasta, egg noodles, Spaetzle, etc.

    And was the cause of much confusion in my adolescent mind when watching US TV shows (mostly Friends TBH) when lasagne is being made but noodles being references. SO confused.

    I grew up in a small town with heavy German/Northern European influence so "noodles" usually meant wide egg noodles. As my horizons expanded, so did the things that were included as noodles. We made lasagna with lasagna noodles that were pasta. We made macaroni and cheese with noodles that were pasta. Many made schnitzel with a side of noodles that were Spaetzel.

    That seems very convoluted. Macaroni/lasagne sheets etc would be types/shapes of pasta. Now you're all throwing extraneous words into the mix.

    It's interesting that moving beyond a European grounding (where pasta is from) caused the calling of pasta to morph into noodles.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    Speziface wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    I'm not a chili expert, but isn't chili just bolognese with different spices?

    More heat, no milk, plus beans and peppers.

    Bolognese has milk? :hushed:
    You learn new things every day.
    I'm no expert with meat things.

    Milk or (usually) cream to enhance the richness.

    But you could add some to chili for the same reason. It would also mellow the heat a little bit.

    That's fascinating. I don't do meat, but I'm sure I know a number of people who would appreciate this tip.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    Speziface wrote: »
    jdlobb wrote: »
    Texas Chili competitions, the only ones that matter, will disqualify you for putting beans in a stew and calling it chili.

    I really don't care what the yankees up in Ohio do with their stews.

    IT'S NOT STEW! Ground beef does not a stew make.
    earlnabby wrote: »
    We have a restaurant locally called "Real Chili" and you can get your chili either over noodles (macaroni, not spaghetti), potatoes, or neither. Greasy spoon and a great place to stop after bar time.

    Again, noodles are not pasta, noodles are Asian, pasta is Italian and chili shouldn't be served with either. I'll let the potatoes pass.

    I'm not a chili expert, but isn't chili just bolognese with different spices?

    More heat, no milk, plus beans and peppers.

    Bolognese has milk? :hushed:
    You learn new things every day.
    I'm no expert with meat things.

    Milk or (usually) cream to enhance the richness.

    But you could add some to chili for the same reason. It would also mellow the heat a little bit.

    No you are just talking crazy!
This discussion has been closed.