Coronavirus prep
Replies
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I'm listening to an interview with Dr Ashish Jha and he is saying that if you get past sensationalized media reports and "leaks", it is a tiny fraction of vaxxed people getting sick. And the data about vaxxed people being able to spread it suggests that while they CAN spread it, they are much less likely to. There are several different variables that go into being "infectious", not just how many virus particles are in your nose at any given time. He said his interpretation of the current data is more like a vaxxed person might infect one other person if they happen to catch them at the wrong time. He's concerned that fear mongering headlines are over dramatizing a slight weakness that might rarely come into play. Obviously that's just one read of the situation, but I thought a more positive view of what the new data might mean could be helpful for some of us, myself included, who could use that balance lol.17
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. 
But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
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An article of interest
CDC shares "pivotal discovery" on Covid-19 breakthrough infections
A new study shows the Delta Covid-19 variant produced similar amounts of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated people if they get infected – illustrating a key motivation behind the federal guidance that now recommends most fully vaccinated Americans wear masks indoors again.
The study, published by the US Centers for Disease Control last week, describes 469 Massachusetts residents who were infected in a July outbreak in Barnstable County, which includes the summer vacation destination Provincetown. No deaths were reported among them.
About 74% – or 346 cases – had been fully vaccinated. Of those cases, 79% reported symptoms. Genetically sequenced cases revealed the Delta variant as the main culprit.
The researchers found evidence that viral loads were similar among 127 fully vaccinated people and 84 others who were unvaccinated, partially vaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown. Viral load is a proxy for how likely someone might be to transmit the virus to others.
“High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus,” CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a statement.
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My wife and daughter had to fly to Ohio last week. Daughter wasn't feeling well for like two days when she got back. She's on the mend now, but it sounded like a break through infection (she's vaxxed, as we all are, by the Pfizer vaccine). Wouldn't have went but my wife's only sister is ready to pass and she wanted to see her while she still could. They ate inside while in Cincinnati a few times and took some Ubers. I would imagine that's how she was exposed. Or on the plane. Who knows. They had four flights and one had a guy coughing behind them the entire flight.
Very, very glad they are both vaccinated. If she has it, it's been very, very mild (no temp, oxygen readings great -- heck, hers are better than mine!).11 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
I can only answer that personally: With suspicious mild symptoms recently, I chose to be tested. (Here, it was easy, besides.) If I had a cold or allergies - despite my symptoms being a bit off for those based on past experience - then the annoyance of keeping to myself while waiting for test results was minor. (I recognize that that might not be true for others.) If I had Covid, and was therefore capable of spreading it to others, and did spread it, that would devastate me psychologically, let alone what could happen to those others.
I think multiple strategies need to stay in play, not just one. Yes, I agree that vaccination is at the top of the list, it's just not the whole list.
I would keep to myself right now with any respiratory symptoms - would stay home from work, mask when out, not visit my mother, until the symptoms resolved. I guess you are saying that you would only do that if you tested positive for Covid? I wouldn’t need a positive Covid test to take those precautions right now.
In the past before the pandemic I would have been a little more lax - would probably have gone into work with mild symptoms. But I have always isolated myself from vulnerable people, would not visit my mother, young children etc with any respiratory infection. (I have worn masks into her retirement home before the pandemic even happened if I absolutely had to go there for an emergency reason if I felt ill at all.)
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
I can only answer that personally: With suspicious mild symptoms recently, I chose to be tested. (Here, it was easy, besides.) If I had a cold or allergies - despite my symptoms being a bit off for those based on past experience - then the annoyance of keeping to myself while waiting for test results was minor. (I recognize that that might not be true for others.) If I had Covid, and was therefore capable of spreading it to others, and did spread it, that would devastate me psychologically, let alone what could happen to those others.
I think multiple strategies need to stay in play, not just one. Yes, I agree that vaccination is at the top of the list, it's just not the whole list.
I would keep to myself right now with any respiratory symptoms - would stay home from work, mask when out, not visit my mother, until the symptoms resolved. I guess you are saying that you would only do that if you tested positive for Covid? I wouldn’t need a positive Covid test to take those precautions right now.
In the past before the pandemic I would have been a little more lax - would probably have gone into work with mild symptoms. But I have always isolated myself from vulnerable people, would not visit my mother, young children etc with any respiratory infection. (I have worn masks into her retirement home before the pandemic even happened if I absolutely had to go there for an emergency reason if I felt ill at all.)
That's not exactly what I'm saying. I did isolate myself as soon as I noticed respiratory symptoms, even though they were mild. I then decided to get a Covid test (symptoms still present but declining at that time), continued to isolate until I got the negative result just over 24 hours after the test, by which time symptoms were pretty much gone.
I started noticing symptoms late Saturday, cancelled appointments I had on Monday (and stayed home alone entirely), got tested on Tuesday, cancelled another engagement Wednesday, got the results on Wednesday afternoon, didn't go out again until Thursday. Throughout, I believed I didn't have Covid, but recognized that it was possible.
I'd put it as the negative test giving me more confidence that it was fine to be around others again once symptoms subsided, vs. staying solo a bit longer out of extra caution . . . I'm certainly not saying that I wouldn't isolate unless I had a positive test.
I didn't expose vulnerable people to symptomatic respiratory disease either, pre-Covid, except in cases where I was quite certain it was seasonal allergies, which tend to have slightly different symptoms for me than respiratory viruses.8 -
I'm probably not making myself very clear - I am not advocating for a free for all where sick people go out and spread it around - I think it is prudent for anyone with respiratory symptoms to stay home/mask until they are symptom free. I don't think that Covid testing vaccinated people is necessary for that to happen.
I think that the messaging around the vaccine has been really, really bad. From the beginning telling people that even when they have the vaccine they still have to take every precaution they took prior to the vaccine isn't super convincing for vaccine hesitant people to get it. And all the hand wringing and drama over "breakthrough cases" which are either asymptomatic or mild, is just reinforcing hesitancy.
It needs to be emphasized that the vaccine was never meant to create sterilizing immunity, that mild "breakthrough cases" are expected and normal - not that they are a huge deal and/or a failure of the vaccine. Getting a bad cold from the Covid virus is a vaccine success story - it means that the vaccine is doing what it was intended to do. And that messaging isn't getting out enough imo.8 -
No vaccine is 100%, its just not possible. The protection rate of the covid vaccine is way in excess of common children's vaccines which have been thought "good enough" for years. No one should expect any vaccine to cancel out all possibility of post vaccine infection. I think Pfizer is in the region of 70% effective so most vaccinated persons are probably 70% less likely to contract the simple first form than a non vaccinated person but this Delta variant has deviated sufficiently to make it able to circumvent some of the protection provided by the original form. Its what we in the UK have been living with for weeks before it breached the US. Thankfully, for some reason, our numbers have declined in recent days, regrettably there are still deaths.
We are not hearing as much about the possibility of top up vaccines now. It is hard to imagine it will be an easy call for the decision makers as to which aspects of the vaccine to amplify. I suppose much will depend on how research has developed and what is thought to be a continuous part of the virus. Relieved I'm not a decision maker.
Just heard, our 16/17 year olds are to be offered the Pfizer vaccine, its the only one cleared for use in the age group over here.
Good luck everyone.6 -
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-03/delta-s-spread-seen-pushing-herd-immunity-threshold-above-80
Delta related deaths are becoming more common locally as the cases soar. The mocking of the vaccinated seems to be on the decline as more are lining up for the vaccine. One way or another Delta is getting the USA closer to herd immunity it seems.8 -
I'm probably not making myself very clear - I am not advocating for a free for all where sick people go out and spread it around - I think it is prudent for anyone with respiratory symptoms to stay home/mask until they are symptom free. I don't think that Covid testing vaccinated people is necessary for that to happen.
I think that the messaging around the vaccine has been really, really bad. From the beginning telling people that even when they have the vaccine they still have to take every precaution they took prior to the vaccine isn't super convincing for vaccine hesitant people to get it. And all the hand wringing and drama over "breakthrough cases" which are either asymptomatic or mild, is just reinforcing hesitancy.
It needs to be emphasized that the vaccine was never meant to create sterilizing immunity, that mild "breakthrough cases" are expected and normal - not that they are a huge deal and/or a failure of the vaccine. Getting a bad cold from the Covid virus is a vaccine success story - it means that the vaccine is doing what it was intended to do. And that messaging isn't getting out enough imo.
Yes, I think those are good points, and I share your frustration about the messaging.3 -
I'm probably not making myself very clear - I am not advocating for a free for all where sick people go out and spread it around - I think it is prudent for anyone with respiratory symptoms to stay home/mask until they are symptom free. I don't think that Covid testing vaccinated people is necessary for that to happen.
I think that the messaging around the vaccine has been really, really bad. From the beginning telling people that even when they have the vaccine they still have to take every precaution they took prior to the vaccine isn't super convincing for vaccine hesitant people to get it. And all the hand wringing and drama over "breakthrough cases" which are either asymptomatic or mild, is just reinforcing hesitancy.
It needs to be emphasized that the vaccine was never meant to create sterilizing immunity, that mild "breakthrough cases" are expected and normal - not that they are a huge deal and/or a failure of the vaccine. Getting a bad cold from the Covid virus is a vaccine success story - it means that the vaccine is doing what it was intended to do. And that messaging isn't getting out enough imo.
I'm sorry but your previous messaging was tantamount to advocating the positions you are now stating that you're not advocating.
If you mandate a mask, many but not all people will wear one. If there is no mask mandate indoors, a random person will wear one. Same for public transportation.
If you mandate that people get tested and remain home with covid, most but not all will. If you say that they don't need to get tested and that you recommend but do not mandate that they stay home, then most will not.
Even more so, government and "media" messaging has a lot to do with how people act and react even with the same underlying rules and regulations in place.6 -
I'm listening to an interview with Dr Ashish Jha and he is saying that if you get past sensationalized media reports and "leaks", it is a tiny fraction of vaxxed people getting sick. And the data about vaxxed people being able to spread it suggests that while they CAN spread it, they are much less likely to. There are several different variables that go into being "infectious", not just how many virus particles are in your nose at any given time. He said his interpretation of the current data is more like a vaxxed person might infect one other person if they happen to catch them at the wrong time. He's concerned that fear mongering headlines are over dramatizing a slight weakness that might rarely come into play. Obviously that's just one read of the situation, but I thought a more positive view of what the new data might mean could be helpful for some of us, myself included, who could use that balance lol.
I have read these reports, too. I have seen a range of 1% of current infections being vaxxed people up to 17%, depending on the locality. This leaves me still trying to understand how 6 vaxxed young women (DD+friends) went to an outdoor concert and spent the next day together, and the 3 vaxxed in Feb got sick 2 days later (tested positive) while the 3 vaxxed in April did not get sick (tested negative). Sure, there are always data outliers. Maybe that is all that is going on here. Nonetheless, it seems like a good time to keep collecting data to better understand what is going on than to cease testing or to cease collecting data.7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
Why not? What about kids under 12 -- just let them get infected?11 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
Why not? What about kids under 12 -- just let them get infected?
Actually yes. Lockdowns and restrictions are far more detrimental to children than Covid. Look up the stats.
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I'm probably not making myself very clear - I am not advocating for a free for all where sick people go out and spread it around - I think it is prudent for anyone with respiratory symptoms to stay home/mask until they are symptom free. I don't think that Covid testing vaccinated people is necessary for that to happen.
I think that the messaging around the vaccine has been really, really bad. From the beginning telling people that even when they have the vaccine they still have to take every precaution they took prior to the vaccine isn't super convincing for vaccine hesitant people to get it. And all the hand wringing and drama over "breakthrough cases" which are either asymptomatic or mild, is just reinforcing hesitancy.
It needs to be emphasized that the vaccine was never meant to create sterilizing immunity, that mild "breakthrough cases" are expected and normal - not that they are a huge deal and/or a failure of the vaccine. Getting a bad cold from the Covid virus is a vaccine success story - it means that the vaccine is doing what it was intended to do. And that messaging isn't getting out enough imo.
I'm sorry but your previous messaging was tantamount to advocating the positions you are now stating that you're not advocating.
If you mandate a mask, many but not all people will wear one. If there is no mask mandate indoors, a random person will wear one. Same for public transportation.
If you mandate that people get tested and remain home with covid, most but not all will. If you say that they don't need to get tested and that you recommend but do not mandate that they stay home, then most will not.
Even more so, government and "media" messaging has a lot to do with how people act and react even with the same underlying rules and regulations in place.
Do you mean our previous discussion a while back? That was centered around asymptomatic testing. I don't recall having a discussion with you about mask mandates indoors, or on public transportation.
I don't think that covid testing was ever mandated, so I'm a bit confused about that bit.5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
Why not? What about kids under 12 -- just let them get infected?
I just wanted to add to this - public health restrictions, including school closures, were never put in place to protect children. They were put in place to protect adults and the elderly who children come in contact with. This made sense in a pre-vaccine environment, in a post-vaccine environment (for adults) it no longer makes sense.
If Covid affected adults and the elderly the same as it affects children do you think the world would have basically shut down the way it did? Of course it wouldn’t have, we would have been told to wash our hands, stay home when we are sick, and go about our day otherwise. There wouldn’t even be a vaccine because we wouldn’t need one.5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
Why not? What about kids under 12 -- just let them get infected?
I just wanted to add to this - public health restrictions, including school closures, were never put in place to protect children. They were put in place to protect adults and the elderly who children come in contact with. This made sense in a pre-vaccine environment, in a post-vaccine environment (for adults) it no longer makes sense.
If Covid affected adults and the elderly the same as it affects children do you think the world would have basically shut down the way it did? Of course it wouldn’t have, we would have been told to wash our hands, stay home when we are sick, and go about our day otherwise. There wouldn’t even be a vaccine because we wouldn’t need one.3 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
Why not? What about kids under 12 -- just let them get infected?
Actually yes. Lockdowns and restrictions are far more detrimental to children than Covid. Look up the stats.
I agree with you about the detriment of lockdowns and *some* restrictions. (School closures matter more to more kids than bar closures, for example.) I disagree with you about mask wearing and active covid cases quarantining to protect those under 12.9 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
Why not? What about kids under 12 -- just let them get infected?
Actually yes. Lockdowns and restrictions are far more detrimental to children than Covid. Look up the stats.
The school age children I know, old enough to understand why, don't have a problem wearing a mask even if they aren't always great at complying. Barely 1% of children died from polio, but we took great lengths to protect them until the vaxx was available.
Children seem to have a similar risk of long covid, which doesn't require severe illness to occur, as adults. Long term loss of taste and smell, measurable long term fatigue, long term brain fog/memory issues.
And several hospitals in the southern US are reporting full pediatric ICUs. I think some parents would rather their kids deal with masks for another semester or two until they can be vaccinated. I agree that schools should be in person, but I also think everything we can realistically do to mitigate their risk at least until they have the opportunity to get vaxxed isn't too much to ask.20 -
I'm not sure if I have shared this already - apologies if so.
Data from a few days ago
Latest outbreak in NSW (state of Australia)
Deaths: 13
Vaccinated: 0
Unvaccinated: 13
Currently in ICU's: 54
Vaccinated: 4
Unvaccinated:50
18 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »HawkingRadiation wrote: »I’ve not seen any statistics showing which shot people with breakthrough cases got. It seems like that would be an interesting statistic.
If anyone has seen the breakdown, please post.
I don't know if somebody (CDC??) is keeping track of which vaccine has the most break-thru cases, or if testing centers ask for the name of the vaccine that a person received. It would be interesting to know.
I was reading online (Mr. Google to the rescue) that breakthrough cases may be under counted and underestimated since not all vaccinated people feeling sick or "thinking" that they got covid seek testing. Some just quarantine themselves for few days. In addition, some vaccinated people that might have been infected with the new variant could be totally un-symptomatic, but still able to spread the virus. That is why masks are still needed.
I agree. My dh was sick last week with a bad cold; I'm guessing but we had no proof. When he called the dr. they told him not to worry about getting tested because he had Covid back in November and was vaccinated in March/April. They only asked if he was running a fever. With all the breakthrough infections going on of vaccinated people.....I didn't agree with his dr. at all.
Our numbers are low but are they really, if people aren't getting tested the way they were?
Could go ahead and get tested. My mom and several people in the same house have had a bad cold lately. She had Covid August 2020 and was vaccinated earlier this year. If not for negative tests, I would have guessed Covid again. But people still do get other respiratory infections.
He's fine now. But it still baffles me why they didn't at least give him the option. He probably could've pushed a test for himself but he's one of those people that a) believe everything his dr. tells him and b) is lazy. They told him people are getting bad colds in our area so he went with that. But then how would they know if they're all bad colds and not Covid if they're not still pushing the tests?
He feels justified by his drs. decision because he didn't have a fever and didn't lose his sense of taste or smell. I reminded him that back when we contracted it in November, my only symptom was fatigue and I was tested because he'd had a "cold" and got tested. I cannot remember if he had a fever then or not.
They're getting lax with the testing. SMH
And to @lokihen, I agree with you.
But if it is Covid, which with vaccination is generally equivalent to a bad cold, then what is the point of testing to confirm that? At some point we move on from the pandemic "panic" stage of this, to the endemic stage - where yes, people are still going to get Covid, even with the vaccine, and they are going to recover without treatment in the vast majority of cases.
I read recently that the Delta variant is as contagious as chicken pox, if that is the case then we are not going to eradicate it by testing and isolating people indefinitely. The only way through this now is to vaccinate as many as possible so that it doesn't cause mass severe illness and death. The messaging that we are somehow going to "beat" Covid by eradicating it from the population through lockdowns, testing and isolation is outdated. It isn't going to happen.
1) So the infected person knows that he needs to quarantine and protect vulnerable people
2) To give public health officials relevant data to understand local risk factors, possible spreader events and long term vaccine efficacy metrics.
My point is that at a certain point as the disease becomes endemic quarantining infected people with mild illness isn’t feasible. At a certain point (I believe that point to be now in my specific area of the world) we have to shift our containment strategies away from “positive cases” to more meaningful metrics, such as hospitalizations and deaths. Mass testing of mildly ill people in a post vaccine scenario just doesn’t make sense. That is the whole point of the vaccine program, to keep people alive and out of the hospital, even after they are exposed.
Why not? What about kids under 12 -- just let them get infected?
Actually yes. Lockdowns and restrictions are far more detrimental to children than Covid. Look up the stats.
This 12th years old doesn't agree with your idea and she seems to have more empathy and common sense that some adults.
Florida tween takes on school board to call for mask mandate
Lila Hartley is heading into seventh grade next week. She's excited about history class and trying to figure out how to make more friends when she gets back to in-person school.
But first, the 12-year-old feels she has to stand up for her little brother and all children too young to be vaccinated against coronavirus.
"It's definitely a big deal to me," she said. "So many people are dying and getting sick, and masks just keep people safe. My brother isn't old enough to get the vaccine. So he's, like, vulnerable."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/us/florida-school-mask-mandate-duval-teen/index.html
17 -
paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure if I have shared this already - apologies if so.
Data from a few days ago
Latest outbreak in NSW (state of Australia)
Deaths: 13
Vaccinated: 0
Unvaccinated: 13
Currently in ICU's: 54
Vaccinated: 4
Unvaccinated:50
What's the vaccination rate in NSW? Without knowing that, one cannot logically draw any conclusions from the above data.0 -
If my understanding is correct, Australia closed its borders as its primary method of dealing with covid. When the occasional case escaped the required quarantine State borders were closed and stringent lockdowns were put in place. I think the restriction in numbers of Australians who can return home to Australia are still in place. Many Australians are still unable to return home after 18 months and are unlikely to be able to for some time yet.
Vaccination rates are lower in Australia and are likely to remain so for some time. I don't remember when they started their role out of vaccine. Internationally there are vaccine shortages. Where as the UK and Europe and to some extent the US have been mostly ahead of vaccine production/support by ordering many times over the numbers of vaccine theoretically needed for their own population to enable potential vaccines to be made to reach testing/accreditation phases and ultimate production phases to vaccine role outs. I've not heard how effective the Russian or Chinese versions are. Some have been made available in other countries.
Australia like many other countries were left buying later from what was left on the table to share. So while many in Europe, the UK and the US are saying children need to be vaccinated other international vulnerable adults are left to their vulnerabilities. From the minute covid left China in January 2019 and arrived in Italy "the proverbial cat was out of the bag" we were all at the sharp end of a pandemic. No country was safe, working together has been vital though more joined up effort, possibly with hindsight would have given us, world community more of a chance.
If one extrapolates from the numbers of persons in the ICU's of the UK, US and Europe the proportion, the representation of the unvaccinated outweigh the vaccinated we know what to expect in Australia particularly because its the Delta form they are up against.
I've almost held my breath watching as various Australian States and cities close down and do so many of the things we have done because we were less quick of the mark to close the borders and now we in the UK have virtually flung them open to all wealthy all comers. We have no right to take a sniffy attitude towards Australia because so far one of their states is experiencing the pandemic in the way we have over the last year. It would have been good had Australia been able to keep the borders secure till they had 80% of their total population vaccinated.
I'm glad both Australian and New Zealand rugby players are refusing to travel to the UK, for some Rugby Cup. I'm glad that international players who play in Australian leagues are not wanting to play in the Cup which is now thought to be being delayed by a year, because of the months it would take out of their family/personal lives. All being well it will be announced later today UK time.
Australia has hosted other international sports activities considering them to be "safe" in the way they were put on, all it has achieved is a series of smaller outbreaks and now this rampant outbreak in NSW.
Australia, I for one am deeply sorry for your plight, I wish you all could have been saved this injustice.
In my experience children, above 6, would rather use masks to keep others safe. Teachers are exposed to the virus thanks to parents to congregating at the school gates even in with staggered entry times. My son is a teacher, he had covid at Christmas, (I've not seen him nor his family since October gingerly) in the past months he has been working from home as much as he has been in school. If you can run a school without adult supervision please do it.8 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I'm not sure if I have shared this already - apologies if so.
Data from a few days ago
Latest outbreak in NSW (state of Australia)
Deaths: 13
Vaccinated: 0
Unvaccinated: 13
Currently in ICU's: 54
Vaccinated: 4
Unvaccinated:50
What's the vaccination rate in NSW? Without knowing that, one cannot logically draw any conclusions from the above data.
I didnt draw any conclusions - I just presented the raw data.
I couldnt find specific vaccination rates for NSW as a whole- but Australia, 33% have had at least one dose.
I assume that percentage is higher in eastern states (NSW being one) since Covid has been more of an issue there than in central and western Australia
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/03/vaccination-rates-lowest-in-sydney-suburbs-with-most-covid-cases
part way down page is data showing vaccination rates by specific area and which state the area is in
The NSW areas are at the top of the list - most sitting at between 1/3 and 1/2 of people having had at least one dose.
You will notice it says people15+ : at present only 16 and over can have vaccine here.
You will also notice covid case are lowest in those areas with highest vaccination rates - although I concede there are other factors at play - northern Sydney is very affluent, for example, and general health status probably rises with that
7 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »My wife and daughter had to fly to Ohio last week. Daughter wasn't feeling well for like two days when she got back. She's on the mend now, but it sounded like a break through infection (she's vaxxed, as we all are, by the Pfizer vaccine). Wouldn't have went but my wife's only sister is ready to pass and she wanted to see her while she still could. They ate inside while in Cincinnati a few times and took some Ubers. I would imagine that's how she was exposed. Or on the plane. Who knows. They had four flights and one had a guy coughing behind them the entire flight.
Very, very glad they are both vaccinated. If she has it, it's been very, very mild (no temp, oxygen readings great -- heck, hers are better than mine!).
Was your daughter tested and found positive for COVID? If not, it is possible that it is not a break through COVID infection but one of the many other illnesses we've had around prior to COVID's existence.6 -
On messaging: It sure doesn't help when messaging from the CDC and media outlets focus on a statistical outlier like Provincetown where the vaccinated proved to be more likely to get sick than the unvaccinated. I just can't believe the data or it must be an outlier, so why focus on it so much?!6
-
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »On messaging: It sure doesn't help when messaging from the CDC and media outlets focus on a statistical outlier like Provincetown where the vaccinated proved to be more likely to get sick than the unvaccinated. I just can't believe the data or it must be an outlier, so why focus on it so much?!
I think it's getting more attention because it provided substantial new data on how the virus may behave among those who are vaccinated, adding to our knowledge on that aspect. I don't think the attention is primarily due to the size/scope of that outbreak.4 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »My wife and daughter had to fly to Ohio last week. Daughter wasn't feeling well for like two days when she got back. She's on the mend now, but it sounded like a break through infection (she's vaxxed, as we all are, by the Pfizer vaccine). Wouldn't have went but my wife's only sister is ready to pass and she wanted to see her while she still could. They ate inside while in Cincinnati a few times and took some Ubers. I would imagine that's how she was exposed. Or on the plane. Who knows. They had four flights and one had a guy coughing behind them the entire flight.
Very, very glad they are both vaccinated. If she has it, it's been very, very mild (no temp, oxygen readings great -- heck, hers are better than mine!).
Was your daughter tested and found positive for COVID? If not, it is possible that it is not a break through COVID infection but one of the many other illnesses we've had around prior to COVID's existence.
No, she wasn't. She doesn't work outside the home and didn't need to go anywhere. Plus, no fever or oxygen level drops. We didn't feel it was necessary (and neither my wife or I go outside the home much at all). She's feeling better now. Could it have been jetlag or seasonal allergies? Sure, it's possible.3 -
I'm listening to an interview with Dr Ashish Jha and he is saying that if you get past sensationalized media reports and "leaks", it is a tiny fraction of vaxxed people getting sick. And the data about vaxxed people being able to spread it suggests that while they CAN spread it, they are much less likely to. There are several different variables that go into being "infectious", not just how many virus particles are in your nose at any given time. He said his interpretation of the current data is more like a vaxxed person might infect one other person if they happen to catch them at the wrong time. He's concerned that fear mongering headlines are over dramatizing a slight weakness that might rarely come into play. Obviously that's just one read of the situation, but I thought a more positive view of what the new data might mean could be helpful for some of us, myself included, who could use that balance lol.
I have read these reports, too. I have seen a range of 1% of current infections being vaxxed people up to 17%, depending on the locality. This leaves me still trying to understand how 6 vaxxed young women (DD+friends) went to an outdoor concert and spent the next day together, and the 3 vaxxed in Feb got sick 2 days later (tested positive) while the 3 vaxxed in April did not get sick (tested negative). Sure, there are always data outliers. Maybe that is all that is going on here. Nonetheless, it seems like a good time to keep collecting data to better understand what is going on than to cease testing or to cease collecting data.
I wonder if the unvaxxed ones had it prior. I know among my daughter's and son's friends, most of the ones that lack caution have also already had pretty significant cases of Covid-19. My son was sick for nearly two weeks with it and everyone at his work got it at the same time (a bunch of young solar sales people in SoCal -- none of them were wearing masks inside their workplace and regularly having in person meetings). Same with my daughter's friends. A large group of them gathered in Austin during the pandemic (my daughter didn't go) and all got it. Every one of them that went. So, it would not surprise me if my daughter got more mildly sick, even with the vaccine, then someone that was sick in bed for weeks with actual Covid-19, by being exposed presently.
I believe the same young people that have been vaxxed have also mostly been cautious the entire time. But yeah, I'd love to know more data on this.4 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »I'm listening to an interview with Dr Ashish Jha and he is saying that if you get past sensationalized media reports and "leaks", it is a tiny fraction of vaxxed people getting sick. And the data about vaxxed people being able to spread it suggests that while they CAN spread it, they are much less likely to. There are several different variables that go into being "infectious", not just how many virus particles are in your nose at any given time. He said his interpretation of the current data is more like a vaxxed person might infect one other person if they happen to catch them at the wrong time. He's concerned that fear mongering headlines are over dramatizing a slight weakness that might rarely come into play. Obviously that's just one read of the situation, but I thought a more positive view of what the new data might mean could be helpful for some of us, myself included, who could use that balance lol.
I have read these reports, too. I have seen a range of 1% of current infections being vaxxed people up to 17%, depending on the locality. This leaves me still trying to understand how 6 vaxxed young women (DD+friends) went to an outdoor concert and spent the next day together, and the 3 vaxxed in Feb got sick 2 days later (tested positive) while the 3 vaxxed in April did not get sick (tested negative). Sure, there are always data outliers. Maybe that is all that is going on here. Nonetheless, it seems like a good time to keep collecting data to better understand what is going on than to cease testing or to cease collecting data.
I wonder if the unvaxxed ones had it prior. I know among my daughter's and son's friends, most of the ones that lack caution have also already had pretty significant cases of Covid-19. My son was sick for nearly two weeks with it and everyone at his work got it at the same time (a bunch of young solar sales people in SoCal -- none of them were wearing masks inside their workplace and regularly having in person meetings). Same with my daughter's friends. A large group of them gathered in Austin during the pandemic (my daughter didn't go) and all got it. Every one of them that went. So, it would not surprise me if my daughter got more mildly sick, even with the vaccine, then someone that was sick in bed for weeks with actual Covid-19, by being exposed presently.
I believe the same young people that have been vaxxed have also mostly been cautious the entire time. But yeah, I'd love to know more data on this.
All were vaxxed-- 3 in Feb, 3 in April. I have no insight into who had which vaccines or may have had covid previously. I'm sure DD knows.1
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