going dutch on a first date

hdutoit17

If the guy asks you out - he should pay.
If its a blind date I think both can pay cause neither of you picked each other, but if he really likes you in the end it would be nice for him to pay.


When you start dating seriously then I would go half half or sometimes pay. My husband gets the bigger salary so will obviously pay the bill more often.

Grokkster

I think we should look at the situation this way:

1. The man didn't discuss, prior to the date, how to cover the bill because he fully intended to foot the bill;
2. When the bill came, he drew out his card without asking you to do the same. Again, because he intended to foot the bill;
3. When you also drew out your card, he didn't say no. This was probably because (a) he wasn't expecting that and couldn't mentally recover fast enough to say no; or (b) he thought you might feel strongly about going dutch and didn't want to belittle you by insisting on paying the bill 100%.

Skinny_minny_mo

go dutch? no way!!

you should offer (and be prepared to pay if need be) but he should persist and wrestle the bill out of your hand if need be.

that said, ladies dont oder the most expensive dish on the menu.

jennifer_417

Why would you offer to pay if you're going to be offended by...paying? Way to be disingenuous.

skamnorth

I just recently learned how big a culturedifference this is, with americans compared to where Im from (Norway.), from a online discussion where a american female was worried that her norwegian suitor didn't like her because he didn't pay for her part of the meal.

When I visited US a while back and went out with a couple of male friends of mine, they wouldn't let me pay. I was actually not thrilled by this.

Here's the thing. Me, and most other norwegian girls, wouldn't want anyone else to be paying for me on a date or a meet or even at a bar. Doing that signals to me that I somehow owe that person something in return. In that respect, forcefully paying for my part of the meal, or my drinks signals to me a lack of respect. I feel allowing me to pay for myself helps me define myself as a independant person. It respects my boundries.

I let people pay for me only if I trust them to not have ulteriour motives: If Im already steady with someone, if it is in a business occation or family or very close friends.

Its strange how different it is.

twelfty

i've always been one to pay, however a woman i've had a few dates with recently we've taken it in turns to pay, i think it shows a mutual respect, it's very refreshing for me with previous women taking my willingness to pay from the outset as me being a bank for the rest of the relationship.

finding a woman who says "no dw about paying every time, it's not your money i want" is a decent quality to have in this day and age

money is the route of all evil, and should have no place in finding love imo

iceqieen

I must echo the norwegians.. Although Icelandic girls will let guys pay for their drinks at bars.. which I guess is the extent of our "dating" scene :P

In all seriousness - offering to pay while not being willing to pay and then being offended is just silly mindgames and completely unfair to the other person -regardless of the culture or status of equality.

Scribble27

I always pay. It's like an unwritten law!

CristinaL1983

I always plan on paying for my portion of a first date. If I don't end up liking the person, I don't want to feel indebted or like an escort (who is being bought off for their time). If he insists on paying, I am not going to make a scene, it's not worth it. I will ask, "Are you sure?" Or offer to leave the tip, pick up movie tickets or whatever. I feel better about it. I have known plenty of guys who feel like they are owed something for paying for dinner and don't want to end up in that position.

After the first date, I figure it's up to the person that asked the other out to pay. (That usually ends up alternating). If I don't like someone, there won't be a second date so first date rules don't really apply.

Having said that, whether he lets me pay for my portion or not, I expect the door to be opened for me. That might be kind of weird. I'm not going to be upset if it's not but it would definitely throw me off.

CuddlyIrish

I must be pretty old fashioned but the guy needs to pay for a first date.....just saying.

Hbazzell

I think whomever initiates the date should offer to pay and whomever picks the restaraunt should pay. (At first, after dating a while it is different). Because if the guy picks the place and says he wants to go on a date then he is suggesting that is in his price range. If a gal initiates and picks then she is giving her price range. I do agree with OP though, on first dates I want the guy to pay, but I always offer, but that is because I usually let the guy pick the place to see what he is in to. Now that I am married (and even when we were dating) we went back and forth and tried to keep it equal. If one partner makes way more money, they should pay more also.

bluefox9er

what are your thoughts on going dutch on a first date?

i am a female and had a lovely time w/ the male i was with. he opened the door to my side of the car, but didnt pay for our food. i usually offer my credit card (as a gesture that im not a gold-digger) but what can i say, im old fashioned especially on a first date. i like to be swept off my feet. however, i know it's 2013 and i believe that gender roles shouldnt be so strict...i'd love to hear your opinion on this.

What sort of a man lets a girl pay on ANY date, let alone a first date???


Jeeesh...

Change_is_Good_

^^ This

I would NEVER expect to be paid for. Of course it's nice to be spoilt now and again but regardless of date I will always offer (and be prepared to pay) if I'm refused I always make sure I get a round in at least if we have drinks or something after.

Nutella91

No, he should definitely pay for it.

skamnorth

I must echo the norwegians.. Although Icelandic girls will let guys pay for their drinks at bars.. which I guess is the extent of our "dating" scene :P

Hehe, of course there are norwegian girls allowing this as well - but that can be a bit of a russian roulette game. You might end up buying a drink to a girl who's fine with it, and then there are those who are really offended and take it as a sign that the buyer thinks she is cheap.

Hbazzell

Oh caveat to my post: if you are not in to him always pay. Then they cant hold it against you lol.

iceqieen

I must echo the norwegians.. Although Icelandic girls will let guys pay for their drinks at bars.. which I guess is the extent of our "dating" scene :P

Hehe, of course there are norwegian girls allowing this as well - but that can be a bit of a russian roulette game. You might end up buying a drink to a girl who's fine with it, and then there are those who are really offended and take it as a sign that the buyer thinks she is cheap.

Hehe certainly!

and accepting the drink is also a bit of a chance.. since the guys sometimes think they are paying their way into the girls pants.. and then get offended when the girl doesnt comply later in the evening..

Safest just to say no thanks and buy your own drinks/food/whatever :glasses:

susheetush

A gorgeous guy I dated, who was so sweet, such a gentlemen, who picked me up from my house, did a detour to see my sister because she was upset and needed me, while on our very first date, and who has remained a friend when things didn't work out, earned 1/3 of what I earned. I went dutch on our first date, I cooked for him for our second date, and I appreciated that he didn't hold the whole 'I can't let you pay" idea because we probably wouldn't have seen each other after, because while he was very generous with himself and his time, he just didn't have a lot of disposable income (he was in training). When he finished training, he took me out and splurged on me, and we'd already stopped dating by then. I'm glad I didn't miss out on meeting him because I expected him to pay.

JJordon

Sounds reasonable. Whomever asks, pays. If its a blind date, go dutch.

AvantGardener

I think expectations of upholding gender roles (e.g., the man should be expected to pay for dinner on a first date) are vestiges of "benevolent sexism"--basically, gender inequalities that, superficially, appear positive for females... but that are often far more insidious than the typical hostile sexism we associate with the word. It still perpetuates the patriarchal status quo (i.e., structural power inequalities between the sexes), acknowledging women as kinder and gentler than men but also weaker and in need of protection. It has perhaps a more negative social effect than overt sexism since just as many women as men endorse benevolent sexism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalent_sexism

Michael

morenita71

dutch all the time. if you can't afford half the bill in an expensive restaurant chooses somewhere else. Or take it in turns. My partner and I have been together for 21 years and were friends before we started going out together - on what was technically our first date we went dutch.
Chivalry is genderless. Be polite, charming, thoughtful irrespective of whether you are a man or a woman. If you expect the man to be 'traditional' - where does that end? With the woman doing more housework, tolerating bad behaviour (because 'that's just what men do') No - start as you mean to go on... "Tradition" is overated

RobinALarge

There is a third option not yet considered here and it saves both parties the agonising choice on who pays.

Agree and plan to 'do a runner' as it is known in UK.

That is escape the restaurant without paying for anything............

On a more serious note this discussion will allow either party to voice aview ahead of time. It goes like this....

" I have been thinking - I'm not sure if I should pay all the bill, or if you should pay all the bill? or maybe we should go dutch? To avoid the issues I have identified a fire exit close to the restrooms - we need to decided who goes first..........."

Or a conversation along those lines.

Main thing is 'lighten up' - its dinner out...

twelfty

I think expectations of upholding gender roles (e.g., the man should be expected to pay for dinner on a first date) are vestiges of "benevolent sexism"--basically, gender inequalities that, superficially, appear positive for females... but that are often far more insidious than the typical hostile sexism we associate with the word. It still perpetuates the patriarchal status quo (i.e., structural power inequalities between the sexes), acknowledging women as kinder and gentler than men but also weaker and in need of protection. It has perhaps a more negative social effect than overt sexism since just as many women as men endorse benevolent sexism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalent_sexism

Michael

^ wot 'e sed lol

tami101

I think we should look at the situation this way:

1. The man didn't discuss, prior to the date, how to cover the bill because he fully intended to foot the bill;
2. When the bill came, he drew out his card without asking you to do the same. Again, because he intended to foot the bill;
3. When you also drew out your card, he didn't say no. This was probably because (a) he wasn't expecting that and couldn't mentally recover fast enough to say no; or (b) he thought you might feel strongly about going dutch and didn't want to belittle you by insisting on paying the bill 100%.

I believe this is the probably what happened. Personally for me, if it's not discussed previously I would expect the man to pay. It would definitely affect how I felt about him if he expected me to pay without talking about it beforehand. However, if he suggested going dutch first, I would have no problem paying for my half.

Blair_Waldorf

thanks for the input so far.

to answer your question: when the bill came he got out his card and then i paused and dug for mine and then put it down. im just so used to the guy saying, "oh, no i got this" that i was surprised he didnt say or do anything. if he was going to be old fashioned and open the door for me, then he should pay for the date too, right?

it just feels like so many guys are halfassing it and chivalry is dead these days. in the grand scheme of things its not that big of a deal. but i felt cheapened thats all.

Omg I sooo agree with you! I love chivalry but have never met a real gentleman and don't know if I ever will because I don't think they exist anymore. I understand how you felt that his action cheapened the date, that would be a turn-off for me too. I think whenever a guy (or whoever) asks a person out, then they should pay for everything.

haroon_awan

I think expectations of upholding gender roles (e.g., the man should be expected to pay for dinner on a first date) are vestiges of "benevolent sexism"--basically, gender inequalities that, superficially, appear positive for females... but that are often far more insidious than the typical hostile sexism we associate with the word. It still perpetuates the patriarchal status quo (i.e., structural power inequalities between the sexes), acknowledging women as kinder and gentler than men but also weaker and in need of protection. It has perhaps a more negative social effect than overt sexism since just as many women as men endorse benevolent sexism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalent_sexism

Michael

I study gender, sexuality and law at university and even I don't ramble on like this. Firstly, the hell you talking about?! And secondly, in this day and age, if a man earns more than a woman AND asks her out how does that perpetuate the patriarchal status quo? What would keep the "old fashioned rule" - that men should always pay - would be if the man pays even if he earns less than the woman and she asked him out.

Blair_Waldorf

no no no no no no no no no non ononononononon NOOOOOO.

ladies, NEVER pay for a first date. especially if he asked you out. never, ever, ever. going dutch is for friends or people who have been dating for a significant amount of time. you could offer to reach for your wallet, but if you're with a gentleman he will pay- no matter what.

if you're confused as to who is paying...try to get the answer before you even go on the date. when he asks you out, ask him where you'll be going. say something offhand like "it can't be too expensive, i have to pay rent tommorrow," or something like that. at this point, he'll either say "okay, i'll pick something fairly reasonable," which means you'll be paying your portion...or if he's a decent man he'll say "don't worry about it, i've got it."

I agree!

AvantGardener

I think expectations of upholding gender roles (e.g., the man should be expected to pay for dinner on a first date) are vestiges of "benevolent sexism"--basically, gender inequalities that, superficially, appear positive for females... but that are often far more insidious than the typical hostile sexism we associate with the word. It still perpetuates the patriarchal status quo (i.e., structural power inequalities between the sexes), acknowledging women as kinder and gentler than men but also weaker and in need of protection. It has perhaps a more negative social effect than overt sexism since just as many women as men endorse benevolent sexism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalent_sexism

Michael

I study gender, sexuality and law at university and even I don't ramble on like this. Firstly, the hell you talking about?! And secondly, in this day and age, if a man earns more than a woman AND asks her out how does that perpetuate the patriarchal status quo? What would keep the "old fashioned rule" - that men should always pay - would be if the man pays even if he earns less than the woman and she asked him out.

I'm not arguing that every instance of a man or a woman footing the bill on a first date would be sexist--that would be absurd. However, holding the belief that a man (by virtue of his gender) should always foot the bill on a first date is symptomatic of benevolent sexism. These chivalrous deeds superficially appear to have positive effects for women (yay, free food! -- yay, a door held open solely based on my gender!), but the underlying rationale is that women are weaker and need to be taken care of or provided for. Research has shown that benevolent sexism (again, since it's more subtle and endorsed by both women and men) can actually have much more negative effects than overt or hostile sexism that we more typically associate with the word "sexism."

Michael

Blair_Waldorf

Whoever invites should pay. If he asked you out, he should have paid. If you asked him, you were right in paying. If someone invited me out but made me pay for the meal there wouldn't be a second date.

Haha, yeah that would be rude to ask someone out then make them pay for themselves! I've met cheapo guys like that! Then they still try to kiss you (or more) after being cheap...eeeww. Nope, I don't think so buddy!! :laugh:

Cr01502

It's the 21st century.

Split the f@%king bill.

(Unless of course your date shows up an hour late. Then she's paying.)