going dutch on a first date
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A guy did that to me once....(without warning)....yeah he never heard from me again.
The date was going well up until that point.
Sorry but Ive always grown up with the knowing the man should take care of the woman.
Dont get me wrong when I will go out with my boyfriend we take turns paying for things because sometimes Ill want to treat him or we will go half and I pay for food and he pays for drinks.
BUT ON THE FIRST DATE IS A NO0 -
These chivalrous deeds superficially appear to have positive effects for women (yay, free food! -- yay, a door held open solely based on my gender!), but the underlying rationale is that women are weaker and need to be taken care of or provided for. Research has shown that benevolent sexism (again, since it's more subtle and endorsed by both women and men) can actually have much more negative effects than overt or hostile sexism that we more typically associate with the word "sexism."
Michael
That "underlying rationale" is completely out of date. How does my paying for the first date if I earn more than her and I asked her out re-enforce a rationale that women are weaker and need to be taken care of? Explain to me why it does this instead of showing that I am open and willing to accept that eg I earn more/asked her out?
I would really know what textbooks you are reading, how many women you actually know and how many women or men you've dated because, and excuse my "non-academic language", you've talking out of your as..
Research has shown that glutamine is be beneficial for active individuals with a solid nutritional plan in supporting their immune system and speeding up recovery.
Research has also shown that glutamine is not beneficial for active individuals with a solid nutritional plan in supporting their immune system and speeding up recovery.
Take your pick.0 -
I am old school and believe the man should pay for dinner on a 1st date!!
I also like a woman to have some cooking skills, going out to dinner gets old.0 -
Its mindboggling how much feelings there is about this topics.
Some of you mention that the man should almost wrestle the bill out of the womans hand. I wouldn't meet a man again if he did that to me. I want to pay for myself, and would feel disrespected if disallowed.0 -
funny, I am dutch but never heard of this expression
Why is it called dutch then? are we such cheap *kitten*?
Last date we did this. But she offered it. We went to a zoo and she could get tickets online so she ordered them and printed them. I just payed for the train and drinks/food.
But I never asked a girl if she would pay for her own if I ask her out.
Did however left a girl at a restaurant, but still payed everything. She was playing with her phone all the freaking time. I thought it was very rude of her. So I payed for the lunch and just left her there (she lived nearby)0 -
EatLikeAnAthlete: Rather than getting into a pointless MFP forum argument, I'd recommend that you look into the ongoing social psychological research into benevolent vs. hostile sexism.
But just to reiterate, paying for someone else because you asked them out is obviously not inherently sexist. The benevolent sexism comes from the belief that you *should* be obliged to pay by virtue of your being male (which I'm not implying applies to you). While most people advocate gender equality and would condemn overt acts of sexism, both men and women are much more likely to endorse benevolent sexism--and its subtle effects are perhaps more insidious and represent a greater obstacle to achieving gender equality. It's contradictory to advocate gender equality and then expect preferential treatment (e.g., what most people would consider 'chivalry') due to your gender.
And, as another poster implied, it's not the 1950s... I think most progressive-minded young adults are comfortable with the idea of "going dutch" on dates.
Michael0 -
I had to google it myself, apparently its a play on Dutch doors, not that dutch people are cheapassesfunny, I am dutch but never heard of this expression
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I love chivalry but have never met a real gentleman and don't know if I ever will because I don't think they exist anymore.
Chivalry is not dead, but it's gotten harder to find ever since a charger stopped being a horse and became a car. :P
In all seriousness, I have picked up the tab on every first date I've been on, I still try to open car doors, hold other doors open and always offer an arm when crossing the street. Guess I just like the old ways better.0 -
I love chivalry but have never met a real gentleman and don't know if I ever will because I don't think they exist anymore.
Chivalry is not dead, but it's gotten harder to find ever since a charger stopped being a horse and became a car. :P
In all seriousness, I have picked up the tab on every first date I've been on, I still try to open car doors, hold other doors open and always offer an arm when crossing the street. Guess I just like the old ways better.
Agreed. It is not dead. I can't say that I've ever been on a date where the guy didn't pay. Even after I offered.
Then again, I wonder how many of those instances the guys thought they could "round the bases" because of it.... Lol men. 0 -
In a long term relationship (or friendship), if people want to split costs based on how much each person makes, that's reasonable to me. So is an occasional treat of one person taking the other person out and paying for everything. But it shouldn't be an expectation, and it shouldn't be one-sided.
In a new relationship or dating situation, it's very uncomfortable. Having the expectation that someone I don't really know should pay for me makes me feel I don't respect myself as an independent and capable individual. It feels parental to me, or creates subtle expectations that set the tone for the relationship as something other than an equal partnership. I don't need to be "taken care of".. if I am with someone it is because I enjoy their company, but it doesn't change my own responsibilities for myself. I honestly don't understand why having a door held open for me or a meal paid for should make me feel special.. it seems so arbitrary and superficial. There are other ways of showing real respect, like honesty and accountability and dedication, that are much more meaningful.0 -
Then again, I wonder how many of those instances the guys thought they could "round the bases" because of it.... Lol men.
See, that's the 95% of guys giving the rest of us a bad reputation! :P0 -
To be honest, I don't expect a man to pay, but at least an offer is expected, especially on a first date. If I waved my card in front of him and he looked the other way, I'd take that as a sure sign of things to come and probably wouldn't date him again.
Just my opinion obviously, I've dated men that have expected to be looked after before and I won't do it again. I expect the financial side of things in a relationship to be as equal as reasonably possible, depending on salaries.0 -
i think a guy should pay, as it helps offset the cost of being a woman.
i mean, the cost of make-up, hair cuts, high heels, lingerie, waxing....
This ^^^ is so totally true our maintenance is far more expensive - clothes and haircut at the same place will usually be 30% more for a woman than a man which is unfair!!
But that said, I offer but would expect the guy to take me out for our first date (i.e. pick up the bill). After I think it is good to just take turns so if I plan the next date I'll pick up the bill.0 -
what's going dutch?0
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I think expectations of upholding gender roles (e.g., the man should be expected to pay for dinner on a first date) are vestiges of "benevolent sexism"--basically, gender inequalities that, superficially, appear positive for females... but that are often far more insidious than the typical hostile sexism we associate with the word. It still perpetuates the patriarchal status quo (i.e., structural power inequalities between the sexes), acknowledging women as kinder and gentler than men but also weaker and in need of protection. It has perhaps a more negative social effect than overt sexism since just as many women as men endorse benevolent sexism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalent_sexism
Michael
I study gender, sexuality and law at university and even I don't ramble on like this. Firstly, the hell you talking about?! And secondly, in this day and age, if a man earns more than a woman AND asks her out how does that perpetuate the patriarchal status quo? What would keep the "old fashioned rule" - that men should always pay - would be if the man pays even if he earns less than the woman and she asked him out.
Totally agree with this response. Michael using big words doesn't make you "smart"0 -
although it is a stereotype of the Dutch to be very cheap, penny pinchers (well Euro pinchers)
I had to google it myself, apparently its a play on Dutch doors, not that dutch people are cheapassesfunny, I am dutch but never heard of this expression0 -
although it is a stereotype of the Dutch to be very cheap... and I have experienced it first hand!
Curious: can I ask in what situation?0 -
My OH always used to pay when we were dating but chivalry wasn't really part of it - its just not him, but it is nice to see the effort he makes occasionally, flowers, nice wine, clothes, date night etc, not been to the ballet yet thought! I suppose if he did it all the time then I wouldn't see it as an exception. We married 5 years ago and now have a joint bank account. He will occasionally insist on paying when we're out and about but we've usually decided where the money's coming from before we go so it doesn't dampen the atmosphere.
At work when we go for drinks after which we occasionally all do together to network then I might expect my boss to pay or at least expect him to get the first round and then we all take it in turns after that.
I always thought of these traits of cultural differences though and probably why I'd feel offended if my date didn't pay. Maybe it's a bit of that and how we are brought up and what we are taught to expect 0 -
I love chivalry but have never met a real gentleman and don't know if I ever will because I don't think they exist anymore.
Chivalry is not dead, but it's gotten harder to find ever since a charger stopped being a horse and became a car. :P
In all seriousness, I have picked up the tab on every first date I've been on, I still try to open car doors, hold other doors open and always offer an arm when crossing the street. Guess I just like the old ways better.
I've never met a guy that did all that! Wow, impressive! I like the old ways better as well, and manners go a long way too! Another thing which so many people seem to lack these days.0 -
When I was single I insisted on paying my way on first dates. Simply, I felt it was important in setting the tone of any future dates and being clear about my expectations- not only for the other person but also for myself.
I've now been married for 10 years, we don't go dutch now but we still take turns paying for things. We have never, ever argued about how costs are split in our household.0 -
If you go dutch, whose requirement is it now to put out?0
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Id never pay for a chick first date0
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I've never met a guy that did all that! Wow, impressive! I like the old ways better as well, and manners go a long way too! Another thing which so many people seem to lack these days.
Sorry that you have not met someone like that when you clearly would like to. I will be honest and add that I don't get every door every day or anything like that - but for any event/outing I always try to behave in that manner. I hold the stairwell doors open at the office too. Just the way I was brought up and what I consider good manners.0 -
I prefer going dutch on a first date, but it also really depends on each person's circumstances and how the date is going. I've actually had guys get mad at me if they paid for the first date and then I refused a second one. I always pull out my wallet when the bill comes, but more of than not, the guy usually insists on paying. My last boyfriend paid on the first date and used the line "you'll get the next one." He claimed he was trying to gauge my interest in a second date. And I did! But it wasn't because he paid for the first... I also went on a date once where the guy took me to an expensive Belgian restaurant, ordered 3 pints and got REALLY drunk (I ordered 1 and didn't eat the food that he had ordered for both of us before I got there due to allergies), and then when the bill came he claimed that we weren't actually on a date so we should split it down the middle. He was too drunk to even see into his wallet, so I made sure he paid for what he ordered and I paid for my one drink... I don't think the guy needs to pay for the first date. I think it depends on how it's going and how things feel.0
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Haha, pretend to be nice just to maybe "round the bases"! Totally met guys like that, some that think just because they paid for dinner or put in a minimal effort that they deserve a kiss or something else, lol! Nope :laugh:0
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unfortunately i think chivalry is dead. thankfully i've been happily married for 16 years but in this day and age i would say whoever asks the other person out should pay.0
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I suppose that it's fair, but it should vbe something that is decided on in advance. Having said that, and, given that I should probably be in a museum somewhere, when I ask a woman out, I pay. I open doors, pay for dates and treat my women (wife, daughters, female friends) with respect and deference. If that is seen as anti-feminist, rather than chivalrous to some, well, don't worry about it. I've been off the market for a quarter of a century anyways.0
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I suppose that it's fair, but it should vbe something that is decided on in advance. Having said that, and, given that I should probably be in a museum somewhere, when I ask a woman out, I pay. I open doors, pay for dates and treat my women (wife, daughters, female friends) with respect and deference. If that is seen as anti-feminist, rather than chivalrous to some, well, don't worry about it. I've been off the market for a quarter of a century anyways.
Hahaha, you're awesome dude! 0 -
Its mindboggling how much feelings there is about this topics.
Some of you mention that the man should almost wrestle the bill out of the womans hand. I wouldn't meet a man again if he did that to me. I want to pay for myself, and would feel disrespected if disallowed.
I too am shocked at this sentiment.
I wasn't raised that I need some man to take care of me and shower me with gifts. I can afford my own meals and I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to pay my share.
If I was on a first date and the guy wouldn't let me pay my share, he would not be getting a second date.
I hate this reminder that there's such a difference between men and women.0
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