Something I learned to avoid carbs
Replies
-
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
0 -
stevencloser wrote: »I took a nap, why is everyone on kelly's case? What "claims" is she making that you see as aren't true?
I went back 6 pages trying to catch up, but, yeah, that's not going to work in a reasonable time frame.
We can lose weight (fat) while in a caloric surplus. A net deficit isn't needed.
We can't eat fat and carbs together.
Well if that's the case, I do understand her point of view, but I think she misunderstood what actually happened. I seen many low carbers go around saying "I used to eat x calories, and i couldn't lose weight, now i eat x+y calories and I am losing weight, calories don't matter"
As I said so myself, I 'when I do low carb I lose at 2,500 calories, when i incorporate a higher carb intake I have to eat around 2,000 calories"
The thing with these types of diets they don't have such a big negative impact on metabolic rate.
"Among overweight and obese young adults compared with pre-weight-loss energy expenditure, isocaloric feeding following 10% to 15% weight loss resulted in decreases in REE and TEE that were greatest with the low-fat diet, intermediate with the low-glycemic index diet, and least with the very low-carbohydrate diet"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22735432
My own personal data comparing a LOW CAL DIET and keto
Crash diet results for 28 days
Caloric Intake: 1461
Fat Mass Loss: 12.9lbs
LBM: 171lbs
Estiamted TDEE: 2839 (calculated from results)
Keto 28 day results
Calorie intake: 2,379
Fat Mass Loss: 8.9lbs
LBM: 170lbs
Estimated TDEE: 3,491
*cough cough*
"was greatest with the low-fat diet (mean [95% CI], -205 [-265 to -144] kcal/d), intermediate with the low-glycemic index diet (-166 [-227 to -106] kcal/d), and least with the very low-carbohydrate diet (-138 [-198 to -77] kcal/d;"
A 70 calorie difference.
Yes the metabolic decline was "greater" with the low fat diet... the low carb diet had the least amount of metabolic decline.
Yes, by 70. Not 500.
Edit: almost 700 even according to your own data.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »
Wow.....that woman is so dumb.stevencloser wrote: »Short google search on Miss Harcombe:
http://www.badscience.net/2011/01/how-to-read-a-paper/
http://bitemywords.com/tag/zoe-harcombe/
http://blog.wcrf-uk.org/2010/11/is-zoe-harcombe’s-advice-based-on-solid-scientific-evidence/
http://carbsanity.blogspot.de/2010/12/insulin-wars-i-anonymous-lc-author.html
http://carbsanity.blogspot.de/2011/08/zoe-harcombe-credentials.html
http://wwddtydty.com/2015/01/evil-asa-4-zoe-harcombe/
And so on.
Dumb? Probably not. Just another charlton who found a way to separate people from their money.
I haven't paid a penny.
0 -
OP yes i learned the same thing. I increased my carbs these last few days due to some supplements I am taking. And I have been over my calories. I rarely go over my calories when I eat a keto based diet. I am over my calories because i ate some cheez-its, now i am still hungry. Maybe biological science doesn't exist and it's just bad luck.
How many calories do you eat that Cheez-its would put you over your goal?0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Wow.....that woman is so dumb.stevencloser wrote: »Short google search on Miss Harcombe:
http://www.badscience.net/2011/01/how-to-read-a-paper/
http://bitemywords.com/tag/zoe-harcombe/
http://blog.wcrf-uk.org/2010/11/is-zoe-harcombe’s-advice-based-on-solid-scientific-evidence/
http://carbsanity.blogspot.de/2010/12/insulin-wars-i-anonymous-lc-author.html
http://carbsanity.blogspot.de/2011/08/zoe-harcombe-credentials.html
http://wwddtydty.com/2015/01/evil-asa-4-zoe-harcombe/
And so on.
Dumb? Probably not. Just another charlton who found a way to separate people from their money.
I haven't paid a penny.
But you don't mind selling for her and telling everyone to run out and get her book. Or that her diet is just what you're looking for!0 -
This content has been removed.
-
I took a nap, why is everyone on kelly's case? What "claims" is she making that you see as aren't true?
I went back 6 pages trying to catch up, but, yeah, that's not going to work in a reasonable time frame.
We can lose weight (fat) while in a caloric surplus. A net deficit isn't needed.
We can't eat fat and carbs together.
But she's eating vegetables with butter, and it looked like some of her veggies were starchy, like peas.
And strawberries and cream. When I suffered through the idiocy of food combining, that was a no-no.
0 -
Unless one or all of you are registered dieticians, I would suggest putting your feet where your mouths are if you're just going to be insulting and resort to ad hominem attacks on each other.0
-
kellysdavies wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
You said earlier that you'd lost 6 lb doing this. Where did the other stone and a bit come from?0 -
strategicchibi wrote: »Unless one or all of you are registered dieticians, I would suggest putting your feet where your mouths are if you're just going to be insulting and resort to ad hominem attacks on each other.
The person who made that diet isn't one either, soooo....0 -
This content has been removed.
-
I don't care who did what, this is a clusterf*ck of negativity.0
-
I'm confused. So I'm supposed to make dinner with a carb, but with the intention of eating enough before I get to it that I don't want the carb?
Why wouldn't I just not make the carb and have extra of the other stuff? Seems like a waste of time and food...0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
I thought you only lost 6 pounds eating this way? Now it's a stone and a half?
0 -
strategicchibi wrote: »I don't care who did what, this is a clusterf*ck of negativity.
We're discussing with Kelly why it physically can't work the way she thinks it does. That's not negativity, it's trying to explain something to her.
It's not working too well.0 -
I need my bed now. I'll just end on this. Say I'm wrong and this is all wrong and I am only now losing weight at a good but steady slow pace -and it's making me happy and I feel good again and super healthy - but really it just boils down to the fact I am eating less calories than I am exerting (not saying I agree with this theory but for the sake of ending as a group of human beings who ought to just at least try and be civil and help one another) then shouldn't this at least be considered as an alternative way from the traditional CICO method (eat anything and everything, weigh and log, just don't go over your weekly cals and you'll lose weight) for those people who, like me, reached a point they didn't like and want to try something else? If it boils down to the same theory you all live and die by and it's not damaging and the person enjoys it and lose weight then can't we just agree there might be different means to the end?
This is my end. Night night xx0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »I love these people who have no idea how much they are eating but insist they are eating at a surplus despite losing weight (or vice versa).
Yup.
Doesn't sounds that different from the menu I was using when I was eating 1250.
Well, except for 200 g of pork chop (with bone or without?) or 250 g of duck breast which seems unlikely.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
I thought you only lost 6 pounds eating this way? Now it's a stone and a half?
Maybe pounds are like calories and they aren't all the same? I mean, they're both units of measurement, so if calories can be different, maybe 6lbs can be a stone and a half...0 -
This content has been removed.
-
Alatariel75 wrote: »I'm confused. So I'm supposed to make dinner with a carb, but with the intention of eating enough before I get to it that I don't want the carb?
Why wouldn't I just not make the carb and have extra of the other stuff? Seems like a waste of time and food...
haha ! thats what i thought !!!!!0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »
Wow.....that woman is so dumb.stevencloser wrote: »Short google search on Miss Harcombe:
http://www.badscience.net/2011/01/how-to-read-a-paper/
http://bitemywords.com/tag/zoe-harcombe/
http://blog.wcrf-uk.org/2010/11/is-zoe-harcombe’s-advice-based-on-solid-scientific-evidence/
http://carbsanity.blogspot.de/2010/12/insulin-wars-i-anonymous-lc-author.html
http://carbsanity.blogspot.de/2011/08/zoe-harcombe-credentials.html
http://wwddtydty.com/2015/01/evil-asa-4-zoe-harcombe/
And so on.
Dumb? Probably not. Just another charlton who found a way to separate people from their money.
I haven't paid a penny.
But you don't mind selling for her and telling everyone to run out and get her book. Or that her diet is just what you're looking for!Nony_Mouse wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
You said earlier that you'd lost 6 lb doing this. Where did the other stone and a bit come from?
Sigh. I started this way of eating a stone and half lighter than I was when I joined MFP. I am now ever 6lb lighter than this. So just under 2 stone in total.
0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
That's fine that you don't want to weigh your food. Your claims that you're eating at an energy surplus are specious, in that case.
This type of plan isn't the only one to come down the pike touting some miracle hacking of the way the body utilizes food to get around the "faulty theory" of CICO. There's another one out there that's extremely low-fat and very carb-heavy and it's plant based (no, not specifically Freelee). I went to the website for that. That person talked and talked and talked about the massive amount of calories she was consuming. Then she posted pictures of her typical plates.
Her intake was nowhere NEAR what she was going on about. I'm not the best at eyeballing, but I do know what bean and grain servings look like.
She was so in love with the idea of hacking the body that she didn't count either. She just convinced herself she was eating way more food than she actually was.
0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »I need my bed now. I'll just end on this. Say I'm wrong and this is all wrong and I am only now losing weight at a good but steady slow pace -and it's making me happy and I feel good again and super healthy - but really it just boils down to the fact I am eating less calories than I am exerting (not saying I agree with this theory but for the sake of ending as a group of human beings who ought to just at least try and be civil and help one another) then shouldn't this at least be considered as an alternative way from the traditional CICO method (eat anything and everything, weigh and log, just don't go over your weekly cals and you'll lose weight) for those people who, like me, reached a point they didn't like and want to try something else? If it boils down to the same theory you all live and die by and it's not damaging and the person enjoys it and lose weight then can't we just agree there might be different means to the end?
This is my end. Night night xx
The problem is a lot of people ended up here eating the way you are, that's why they're at a calorie counting website.
I'm really glad you found what works for you and you're losing weight again but don't push pseudo science down people's throats. You can say you like something but there's got to be a point where it goes a bit too far. A lot of people need help not going over their weekly cals because they're not good at guesstimating so nothing is ever one size fits all. Keep doing you if that works for you.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »strategicchibi wrote: »I don't care who did what, this is a clusterf*ck of negativity.
We're discussing with Kelly why it physically can't work the way she thinks it does. That's not negativity, it's trying to explain something to her.
It's not working too well.
I feel your pain. Same same. You are all quite negative mind! I haven't told anyone that CICO doesn't work and/or they should stop.
0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
I thought you only lost 6 pounds eating this way? Now it's a stone and a half?
Which would put her at 108 pounds if she started at 9 stone 3 like she said.0 -
This content has been removed.
-
mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
So on your theory I shouldn't blindly follow something and I should question it. Urm. So this is what happened with CICO...
Well at least if you ask me how CICO works, how the body works, how macronutrients get metabolized I can explain that I have answers. You can't. You are claiming things that differ from actual science but you yourself said you can't even explain yourself.stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »Since it got pushed into page 12, I'll ask again in case you missed it for the 5th time....kellysdavies wrote: »What question do you want answered? I am not the scientist behind the diet - just someone who has tried it after a long time doing CICO and it is so far successful for me.
Really you're going to pretend you didn't see the questions? You even responded to the post by starting out saying "Yez, yes I can". Here I will post the sake questions for a 4th time.
So what you're saying is that by eating fat and carbs together we will not be able to lose fat because our bodies are always burning carbs? So at no point in the day will our body tap into stored fat reserves for energy since we are in a caloric deficit? Does eating fat and carbs negate the laws of thermodynamics?
No. I am not saying this. You will until a certain point. I am saying the body will always use energy from carbs first.
Can you explain to me why then was I able to lose the weight I wanted to (75 lbs) all without following that rule to not eat fat and carbs together?
Yes. For the same reason I was able to lose 1stone7lb on CICO then it stopped despite having probably another stone to go. Because I was starving it. Then my body got used to it and was like 'hang on. We need to start storing some of this'. It readjusted. All CICO work at first. I am not explaining this very well. It's like that American starvation experiment where after a certain point the men weren't losing at the same rate and some even maintaining.. Despite still eating same number of calories a day. According to the CICO theory they should have disappeared!
Are you also saying you can lose weight while being in a caloric surplus?
Yes. Not sure I can be any clearer on this answer?kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
Shhh don't talk sense, it's all magic and unicorns, you know that SLL.
Nah. Just understanding food and calories as a unit of measurement properly. While an inch is an inch, a calorie isn't always a calorie once it is in the body. No magic, no unicorns. Basics.
100 calories of apple is the same as 100 calories of cake, except the cake will be a whole lot smaller than than the apple. Your body knows no difference, but your mind might.
The body uses 100 calories worth of carb very differently to 100 calories worth of fat. Not all calories are equal.
Why is that the same kind of cookie cutter answer all of you that pop in with these arguments use? Answer the questions and stop with the posts rambling.
Okay. I disagree. A 100 calories of apple is not the same as 100 calories of cake. The body will use the nutrients - or the bits that make them an apple or make them a cake - in different ways.
Well I used CICO the entire way, you failed at it that's your flaw not the flaw of CICO.
You really have no clue how science works. No one on this board should listen to what you're saying because not only are you wrong when you give your stance but you don't even know how you got to the position because you are saying you can't even explain it. It's probably 100% likely that you can't explain it because you are blindly listening to that Zoe woman without questioning anything.
You don't know science.
On the contrary - I could say exactly the same about you! But I won't. I respect your views. I had the same ones. Hard to accept there is another way. Another theory. And more and better, newer science. Remember when eggs were bad for you..or fat was the killer and now it's sugar or smoking was 'good for your lungs'.. .. Yes he's let's just accept whatever we are told and never change our views or open our minds.
Wanna have a look at some of the links I posted? All linking to things listing off exactly why that Zoe person doesn't know what she's talking about.
@kellysdavies
Can you comment on the links the user above posted about Zoe?stevencloser wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »kellysdavies wrote: »
Oh no, to lose weight on any diet you need to eat at a deficit. There is no way around that.
WRONG. Because you believe all calories are equal. I was you too. I thought so too. I am living proof this is an invalid theory. There is a way around it. Happy I have found it.
So your saying that ingested energy can just disappear? That would imply that you're a black hole.
So yes you are at a deficit, whether you acknowledge it or not.
She starved herself. For a long time period. I saw her for months talking about eating 1000 calories. And now she's saying 800.
She probably had a raging case of adaptive thermogenesis. She's even saying she thought her maintenance was 1300-1400. Not unless she's already super thin. Which would put her, if trying to lose more weight into some dangerous territory. To get 1300 for maintenance on Scooby's, I just plugged in 110 for weight. And she's lost 6 pounds from that. I forgot her exact age, I used 35.
Houston, we have a problem.
Yes you do have a problem. You can't read. I DID NOT EAT 800 calories. I am 5ft1, was 9stone3, age 36, my BMR was something like 1300. My TDEE maybe 1500 maybe a bit more. NOT ENOUGH for me. I can not sustain this. I did eat 1000 calories for a while because this was the most I could eat and still lose a tiny - ounces - of weight. Bearing in mind I could go down to around 7stone12 and still be in my healthy weight range. I would have had to go to 800 to lose weight without it taking 6 years or something stupid.
You said, in reply to a post of mine suggesting you do a refeed at maintenance, that YOU DID THAT. If you ate 1300 and thought it was a refeed, it wasn't.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. You had adaptive thermogenesis. That's why your rate of loss slowed down. Your TDEE at those stats was around 1600 calories. You should have eaten up to that for a while... about 2 weeks if not more, then slowly backed down to eating about your BMR level. You would have resumed a normal rate of loss at that point.
What you've done now is nothing more than a refeed, just as I've outlined here.
Without presenting proof that you're eating in an actual energy surplus (especially since you only counted calories all of once), I frankly don't believe you, unless you have an undiagnosed underlying medical condition (in which case there really isn't an underlying energy surplus).
Not sure how I can prove it? I could put anything into MFP couldn't I? It wouldn't be proof. So today as an example I burned around 1,600 calories which is prob average (I have a FITBIT)
I ate
Breakfast
4 pieces of streaky bacon
3 eggs cooked in butter
A tomato
Lunch
A pack of antipasto meats
Chicken and veg soup
Dinner (Sunday lunch round the mother in law's!)
Boiled egg salad and loads of olive oil
Roast pork, chicken and cauliflower mash, peas and carrots, brocolli and peas
Strawberries and double cream
Cheddar and Brie
A bit of 85% dark chocolate
Decaf teas and coffees about 4
Yesterday - same breakfast (have the same most days - some days porridge and banana)
Lunch - pork chop and cauliflower rice and courgette noodles cooked in butter
Dinner - duck breast and all the skin and same veg
Full fat Greek yoghurt
I'm being as honest as I can here. No lies. You ca chose to believe me or not. It's fine!
Without weights that doesn't help.
Lol! I don't weigh anymore ! Urm, porridge about 100g, pork chop tesco finest - guess about 200g, duck breast maybe 250 (it was big from the butchers) Greek yoghurt half a 500g tub, bacon no idea - just 4 strips of streaky bacon from the butchers, butter large knob, 10g maybe ? Cauliflower half a whole one (medium sized) oh and that has butter in it and onions and garlic ... Strawberries a dessert bowl full and maybe 50ml of double cream (not sure maybe less - the old MFP me still struggles pouring cream on without watching it!) ...
Ding ding ding! Here's your problem. You have no clue how many calories you are eating because you don't weigh your food. It's simple. Weigh your food if you want to lose weight.
I don't want to! I don't want to weigh my food! I don't NEED to know how many calories I am eating because it doesn't matter. That's the whole frigging point of what I am doing.
I am losing weight. I am not eating processed foods, I am eating all natural foods. I am not mixing fats and carbs (apart from veg and salad). That's all there is to it and I am losing weight. Again. And I am eating way more calories than I was doing CICO and I weigh a stone and a half less now.
That's fine that you don't want to weigh your food. Your claims that you're eating at an energy surplus are specious, in that case.
This type of plan isn't the only one to come down the pike touting some miracle hacking of the way the body utilizes food to get around the "faulty theory" of CICO. There's another one out there that's exceptionally extremely low-fat and very carb-heavy and it's plant based (no, not specifically Freelee). I went to the website for that. That person talked and talked and talked about the massive amount of calories she was consuming. Then she posted pictures of her typical plates.
Her intake was nowhere NEAR what she was going on about. I'm not the best at eyeballing, but I do know what bean and grain servings look like.
She was so in love with the idea of hacking the body that she didn't count either. She just convinced herself she was eating way more food than she actually was.
It's amazing what self-suggestion can do to you.0 -
strategicchibi wrote: »I don't care who did what, this is a clusterf*ck of negativity.
Thanks for your input. This is actually a discussion trying to ferret out fact from woo.
Facts are helpful for people trying to lose weight. Woo isn't.
Stick around. You can actually learn a lot from this kind of back and forth.
0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »I need my bed now. I'll just end on this. Say I'm wrong and this is all wrong and I am only now losing weight at a good but steady slow pace -and it's making me happy and I feel good again and super healthy - but really it just boils down to the fact I am eating less calories than I am exerting (not saying I agree with this theory but for the sake of ending as a group of human beings who ought to just at least try and be civil and help one another) then shouldn't this at least be considered as an alternative way from the traditional CICO method (eat anything and everything, weigh and log, just don't go over your weekly cals and you'll lose weight) for those people who, like me, reached a point they didn't like and want to try something else? If it boils down to the same theory you all live and die by and it's not damaging and the person enjoys it and lose weight then can't we just agree there might be different means to the end?
This is my end. Night night xx
The problem is a lot of people ended up here eating the way you are, that's why they're at a calorie counting website.
I'm really glad you found what works for you and you're losing weight again but don't push pseudo science down people's throats. You can say you like something but there's got to be a point where it goes a bit too far. A lot of people need help not going over their weekly cals because they're not good at guesstimating so nothing is ever one size fits all. Keep doing you if that works for you.
Urm well I would have left it at my first post but people kept asking me questions or asking for more info! It works both ways. You pushing (what I believe) puesdo science on to me too. There is one of me, many of you! But to your last point totally agree and that's maybe why CICO worked for me for as long as it did. But I needed a new direction. And yes I like it. I thought someone else might like it too. Thanks for ending nicely.0 -
kellysdavies wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »strategicchibi wrote: »I don't care who did what, this is a clusterf*ck of negativity.
We're discussing with Kelly why it physically can't work the way she thinks it does. That's not negativity, it's trying to explain something to her.
It's not working too well.
I feel your pain. Same same. You are all quite negative mind! I haven't told anyone that CICO doesn't work and/or they should stop.
The difference between you and us is that our claims are backed by the scientific community and yours by a single person who doesn't even have the qualifications to talk about the things she talks about.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions