DEAR FAT PEOPLE
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I comprehend quite well. Read the bolded sections of her posts above. As I said, her posts are indicating that she sees nothing wrong with fat shaming and has done it to her patients when they have been "snarky" towards her. She also said that she blood pressure shames when treating hypertension and pain shames when she is administering medication. Perhaps she was exaggerating on that last bit but the overall tenor of her posts is pretty harsh towards obese patients. This is a thread about fat shaming; it's my perception that she feels it's OK to shame patients who are obese. I do have a hard time comprehending that!
Uh no she didn't. She was making a comparison. She was trying to say that treating obesity and not turning a blind eye is similar to treating high blood pressure instead of ignoring it. You are completely misreading what she said.
Meh. Telling a patient that they are GONNA HEAR ABOUT how obese they are isn't treatment. That's the difference. This nurse and most of this thread doesn't seem to understand that. The fact that this woman is often the point of access to those in the ICU is not just sad, but concerning for me. This nurse also said that she has no compassion for those whose obesity brings them into the ICU because there are consequences for one's behavior. If that was ever the type of nurse that was treating my mom when she was in the ICU, I'd do everything I could to have her badge. But then again, I think people should be treated with dignity and respect in a hospital setting even if their own poor choices brought them in the door. Silly me.
She was telling us the patient's gonna hear about it. As for what exactly that entails, you're filling in the blanks and IMO letting your imagination run wild :laugh:
Nope, not really. She said just that and said she has no compassion for those who are obese. I didn't make that up. I do have an amazing imagination. One of my many talents, but that isn't what was happening...no matter how many emojis follow the sentiment.
So you can tell us exactly, or even ball park what she would, or has said in that situation?
More emojis just for you:
:bigsmile: 
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I comprehend quite well. Read the bolded sections of her posts above. As I said, her posts are indicating that she sees nothing wrong with fat shaming and has done it to her patients when they have been "snarky" towards her. She also said that she blood pressure shames when treating hypertension and pain shames when she is administering medication. Perhaps she was exaggerating on that last bit but the overall tenor of her posts is pretty harsh towards obese patients. This is a thread about fat shaming; it's my perception that she feels it's OK to shame patients who are obese. I do have a hard time comprehending that!
Uh no she didn't. She was making a comparison. She was trying to say that treating obesity and not turning a blind eye is similar to treating high blood pressure instead of ignoring it. You are completely misreading what she said.
Meh. Telling a patient that they are GONNA HEAR ABOUT how obese they are isn't treatment. That's the difference. This nurse and most of this thread doesn't seem to understand that. The fact that this woman is often the point of access to those in the ICU is not just sad, but concerning for me. This nurse also said that she has no compassion for those whose obesity brings them into the ICU because there are consequences for one's behavior. If that was ever the type of nurse that was treating my mom when she was in the ICU, I'd do everything I could to have her badge. But then again, I think people should be treated with dignity and respect in a hospital setting even if their own poor choices brought them in the door. Silly me.
She was telling us the patient's gonna hear about it. As for what exactly that entails, you're filling in the blanks and IMO letting your imagination run wild :laugh:
Nope, not really. She said just that and said she has no compassion for those who are obese. I didn't make that up. I do have an amazing imagination. One of my many talents, but that isn't what was happening...no matter how many emojis follow the sentiment.
So you can tell us exactly, or even ball park what she would, or has said in that situation?
More emojis just for you: :bigsmile:
I don't have to. I can tell you she was going to make sure the patient (in the ICU aka means is in a life and death situation) is GONNA HEAR ABOUT IT and she openly has no compassion for those whose obesity brought them into the ICU. I don't need to create dialogue to know I would never want that nurse involved in my care or anyone else I care about.
Except you did, though. You just assumed the worst.
It's certainly your perogative to not want people with poor attitudes towards the morbidly obese to be involved in your medical care, or those of your loved ones. I just don't know how you would go about identifying them
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I'm thinkin' crack head. But hey freedom of speech. Doesn't make it right but it is what it is.0
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I comprehend quite well. Read the bolded sections of her posts above. As I said, her posts are indicating that she sees nothing wrong with fat shaming and has done it to her patients when they have been "snarky" towards her. She also said that she blood pressure shames when treating hypertension and pain shames when she is administering medication. Perhaps she was exaggerating on that last bit but the overall tenor of her posts is pretty harsh towards obese patients. This is a thread about fat shaming; it's my perception that she feels it's OK to shame patients who are obese. I do have a hard time comprehending that!
Uh no she didn't. She was making a comparison. She was trying to say that treating obesity and not turning a blind eye is similar to treating high blood pressure instead of ignoring it. You are completely misreading what she said.
Meh. Telling a patient that they are GONNA HEAR ABOUT how obese they are isn't treatment. That's the difference. This nurse and most of this thread doesn't seem to understand that. The fact that this woman is often the point of access to those in the ICU is not just sad, but concerning for me. This nurse also said that she has no compassion for those whose obesity brings them into the ICU because there are consequences for one's behavior. If that was ever the type of nurse that was treating my mom when she was in the ICU, I'd do everything I could to have her badge. But then again, I think people should be treated with dignity and respect in a hospital setting even if their own poor choices brought them in the door. Silly me.
She was telling us the patient's gonna hear about it. As for what exactly that entails, you're filling in the blanks and IMO letting your imagination run wild :laugh:
Nope, not really. She said just that and said she has no compassion for those who are obese. I didn't make that up. I do have an amazing imagination. One of my many talents, but that isn't what was happening...no matter how many emojis follow the sentiment.
So I guess the fact I don't have compassion for those who have COPD/asthma and smoke means I shouldn't take care of those people?0 -
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I comprehend quite well. Read the bolded sections of her posts above. As I said, her posts are indicating that she sees nothing wrong with fat shaming and has done it to her patients when they have been "snarky" towards her. She also said that she blood pressure shames when treating hypertension and pain shames when she is administering medication. Perhaps she was exaggerating on that last bit but the overall tenor of her posts is pretty harsh towards obese patients. This is a thread about fat shaming; it's my perception that she feels it's OK to shame patients who are obese. I do have a hard time comprehending that!
Uh no she didn't. She was making a comparison. She was trying to say that treating obesity and not turning a blind eye is similar to treating high blood pressure instead of ignoring it. You are completely misreading what she said.
Meh. Telling a patient that they are GONNA HEAR ABOUT how obese they are isn't treatment. That's the difference. This nurse and most of this thread doesn't seem to understand that. The fact that this woman is often the point of access to those in the ICU is not just sad, but concerning for me. This nurse also said that she has no compassion for those whose obesity brings them into the ICU because there are consequences for one's behavior. If that was ever the type of nurse that was treating my mom when she was in the ICU, I'd do everything I could to have her badge. But then again, I think people should be treated with dignity and respect in a hospital setting even if their own poor choices brought them in the door. Silly me.
She was telling us the patient's gonna hear about it. As for what exactly that entails, you're filling in the blanks and IMO letting your imagination run wild :laugh:
Nope, not really. She said just that and said she has no compassion for those who are obese. I didn't make that up. I do have an amazing imagination. One of my many talents, but that isn't what was happening...no matter how many emojis follow the sentiment.
So you can tell us exactly, or even ball park what she would, or has said in that situation?
More emojis just for you: :bigsmile:
I don't have to. I can tell you she was going to make sure the patient (in the ICU aka means is in a life and death situation) is GONNA HEAR ABOUT IT and she openly has no compassion for those whose obesity brought them into the ICU. I don't need to create dialogue to know I would never want that nurse involved in my care or anyone else I care about.
Except you did, though. You just assumed the worst.
It's certainly your perogative to not want people with poor attitudes towards the morbidly obese to be involved in your medical care, or those of your loved ones. I just don't know how you would go about identifying them
It's pretty easy. When one spouts the hateful stuff that the patients are forced to HEAR ABOUT.
And yet you still keep avoiding my question.
It os also very clear you don't work in and likely are not friends with anyone who works in healthcare. We can say things that sound so much worse than this.0 -
I comprehend quite well. Read the bolded sections of her posts above. As I said, her posts are indicating that she sees nothing wrong with fat shaming and has done it to her patients when they have been "snarky" towards her. She also said that she blood pressure shames when treating hypertension and pain shames when she is administering medication. Perhaps she was exaggerating on that last bit but the overall tenor of her posts is pretty harsh towards obese patients. This is a thread about fat shaming; it's my perception that she feels it's OK to shame patients who are obese. I do have a hard time comprehending that!
Uh no she didn't. She was making a comparison. She was trying to say that treating obesity and not turning a blind eye is similar to treating high blood pressure instead of ignoring it. You are completely misreading what she said.
Meh. Telling a patient that they are GONNA HEAR ABOUT how obese they are isn't treatment. That's the difference. This nurse and most of this thread doesn't seem to understand that. The fact that this woman is often the point of access to those in the ICU is not just sad, but concerning for me. This nurse also said that she has no compassion for those whose obesity brings them into the ICU because there are consequences for one's behavior. If that was ever the type of nurse that was treating my mom when she was in the ICU, I'd do everything I could to have her badge. But then again, I think people should be treated with dignity and respect in a hospital setting even if their own poor choices brought them in the door. Silly me.
I have a feeling "gonna hear about it" was an exaggeration.
I agree that maybe the way she phrased it was wrong, but there is nothing wrong with pointing out how choices can impact our health.
By the same logic, if someone has lung disease from smoking, and still smokes, I should say nothing? There are many people who have COPD and yet still smoke and then wonder why they have a flare up and need treatment. That is a direct effect of a poor health choice, and yes I will point that out to a patient.
As a respiratory therapist who cared for many patients who died of COPD, if I had heard a nurse 'point out' to one of my patients who was suffering from a flare up in the CCU that their misery was because they still smoked, you'd be the subject of a write up, post-haste. While people are responsible for their own conditions, they aren't stupid. And people who suffer from COPD suffer, ma'am, which if you work in health care, you well know. If a patient is suffering from a 'flare up', odds are good they're on a ventilator, if they're in the CCU. Family is likely in the room, worried sick. If I heard you say a word to them about why they're on the machine and suffering, in front of family, at all, I'd be pulling you from the room and giving you an earful, and then writing you up. And any hospital I've worked in would be backing me up. If we were lucky the family in the room, after an apology, wouldn't be suing.
Compassion. Study up on it.0 -
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My Mama said if you don't have anything nice to say. Then you should be still with your mouth. Love her for raising me. The video is a example of what's wrong with society. I feel nothing for this young woman. She feels her opinion matters. It hurts like hell for people to stare and say rude things. There is too much hate in the world. Rant over I only want to inspire and give positive feedback to my peeps. God bless you all 0
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Not only does she hate fat people, she's a domestic abuser too.0
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I have often wondered how people in Asian countries have stayed so much more slender than in most 'Western' ones. Part of the answer, at least for Japan, appears to be an extreme cultural bias against obesity.Shaming has been shown to be ineffective and counterproductive. Body shame can lead to weight gain, not loss. No, that may not make logical sense, but humans are messy and often don't make sense.
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v37/n6/abs/ijo2012156a.html
So perhaps the more nuanced truth, at least for some cultures, is that 'fat shaming' is rarely successful for the already obese, but it is effective in preventing obesity.
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Just a few examples: Do you doubt that your joints are going through premature wear ? Or that your insulin and estrogen levels are high ?I am obese. That is my only medical problem, aside from erythema nodosum (which is completely not weight related) and bruising tendency (which was caused by LOSING weight). The fact that people believe that all obese people must have adverse medical problems, such as diabetes, hypertension, and coronary artery disease, is concerning. Yes, obesity is a risk factor for many medical conditions, but just because someone is obese does not necessarily mean that they have medical issues.
Obesity is an illness; you are in the pre-clinical stages.
Tobacco abuse up until the first cancer, stroke or heart attack is similar.
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"afatpersonwholikesfood wrote: »"
So well written. Thanks for sharing0 -
chrissythepoet wrote: »This is Whitney's response. She's from the new TLC show. My Big Fat Fabulous Life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2YYZBrPwwU
I always thought TLC was The Learning Channel. But then there was honey boohoo, the guy with 5 wives, 100 kids and counting, and now her. Crap shows and annoying people
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This has been true for a decade or two if memory serves.I am so tired, though, of hearing people talk about how overweight people "did it to themselves", even on this site. When the problem is really just living a default life in our society with a human body. This is an obesogenic society, end of. It is statistically normal to be overweight or obese.
So in 1980 an obese person took personal responsibility, but when the population median was crossed it became something else ?
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Beautiful post.I didn't watch the video but from reading previous comments, I can only imagine the stuff she said and although it probably would bother me a bit, for me, fat shaming motivates me to keep going.
I have been bullied all my life so one more bully is not going to hurt one bit. And you know what they say about bullies. More than likely she has an eating disorder or body image disorder and is deflecting her insecurities onto "Fat People".
Every healthy and fit person I know personally does not have time to think about obese people and rarely comment on them when they do see them. Why? Because they're in a place of total security and are happy with themselves for the most part. Sometimes they might comment and say that's sad (if its a really obese person that is) but for the most part, it really isn't a concern because its not their problem.
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ericGold15 wrote: »
This has been true for a decade or two if memory serves.I am so tired, though, of hearing people talk about how overweight people "did it to themselves", even on this site. When the problem is really just living a default life in our society with a human body. This is an obesogenic society, end of. It is statistically normal to be overweight or obese.
So in 1980 an obese person took personal responsibility, but when the population median was crossed it became something else ?
In 1980, obese people were rarer and were probably obese because of more specific, individual reasons (psychological, medical, whatever). Today, you have to fight to NOT be overweight or obese.0 -
I think you are taking heat because of your 'no sympathy' comment.Obesity does complicate taking care of patients on every level and with overweight and obese people being the large majority of our population, it doesn't matter what I do it's my responsibility as a nurse to know how that affects their care and how to safely manage them. Sorry that offends everyone lol and yes it's still a pain to find 5 free people to hell you turn, it never won't be a pain.
I am a hospital based physician, and I also have ICU duties. It is a rare patient who has not had a hand to one degree or another in their current reason for admission. By personal ethics and a somewhat poorly articulated professional standard, I do not judge my patients, and I respect the right of every competent person to make their own choices about themselves. Is there sympathy where there is no judgement ?
I don't feel any sympathy for a smoker who wants to smoke, but I'll feel for the person if they develop cancer.
Is that internally consistent ? I think so ... for the most part. On the other hand though, I will not endanger myself to pick up an obese person, and I will object e.g to higher taxes to subsidize the care of obesity.
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To nurses and others in medical fields complaining about occupational hazards, and complications involved in treating obese people: it seems like your training, equipment, and staffing are not adequately addressing the needs of these patients. They are not a few patients, either.
There's prevention, sure, and I guess have your private thoughts - but if this is a major problem in e.g. the ER, or in surgery, and you do not have the means or resources to deal with it, somebody needs to put some time into adequately preparing you to adequately treat these people.
Like are you guys trained to do these various procedures on obese people in school? Is there now special equipment & tools & stuff for this group?0 -
ericGold15 wrote: »
I think you are taking heat because of your 'no sympathy' comment.Obesity does complicate taking care of patients on every level and with overweight and obese people being the large majority of our population, it doesn't matter what I do it's my responsibility as a nurse to know how that affects their care and how to safely manage them. Sorry that offends everyone lol and yes it's still a pain to find 5 free people to hell you turn, it never won't be a pain.
I am a hospital based physician. It is a rare patient who has not had a hand to one degree or another in their current reason for admission. By personal ethics and a somewhat poorly articulated professional standard, I do not judge my patients, and I respect the right of every competent person to make their own choices about themselves. Is there sympathy where there is no judgement ?
I don't feel any sympathy for a smoker who wants to smoke, but I'll feel for the person if they develop cancer.
Is that internally consistent ? I think so.
Oh, ok you should be able to answer my question above (hopefully you will).
The beginning smoker is likely to have incipient or preexisting mental health problems & be really young & less well educated afaik. The intermediate smoker is an addict. Maybe you should be sympathetic.0 -
I was around in 1980; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were not.ericGold15 wrote: »
This has been true for a decade or two if memory serves.I am so tired, though, of hearing people talk about how overweight people "did it to themselves", even on this site. When the problem is really just living a default life in our society with a human body. This is an obesogenic society, end of. It is statistically normal to be overweight or obese.
So in 1980 an obese person took personal responsibility, but when the population median was crossed it became something else ?
In 1980, obese people were rarer and were probably obese because of more specific, individual reasons (psychological, medical, whatever). Today, you have to fight to NOT be overweight or obese.
We had cars, TVs, and junk food. People actually ate 'TV dinners.' Everybody I knew worked in a sedentary job. Super models were skinny.
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ericGold15 wrote: »
I was around in 1980; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were not.ericGold15 wrote: »
This has been true for a decade or two if memory serves.I am so tired, though, of hearing people talk about how overweight people "did it to themselves", even on this site. When the problem is really just living a default life in our society with a human body. This is an obesogenic society, end of. It is statistically normal to be overweight or obese.
So in 1980 an obese person took personal responsibility, but when the population median was crossed it became something else ?
In 1980, obese people were rarer and were probably obese because of more specific, individual reasons (psychological, medical, whatever). Today, you have to fight to NOT be overweight or obese.
We had cars, TVs, and junk food. People actually ate 'TV dinners.' Everybody I knew worked in a sedentary job. Super models were skinny.
I was little, but I was there, actually. I wasn't doing much in 1980, but by around 1983ish, I was riding bikes and running around outdoors until sundown, every day it didn't rain. No TV dinners in our house.
Super models were skinny, but most people weren't overweight. (I'm pretty sure there are stats that back this up, but I'm not in a mood to go digging around, sorry.)0 -
You make me wonder if you actually understand the meaning of sympathy.The intermediate smoker is an addict. Maybe you should be sympathetic.
As for your other comments, I *empathize* with the addict, as I do with any person who is suffering. Your notions about the beginning smoker are balderdash.
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ericGold15 wrote: »
You make me wonder if you actually understand the meaning of sympathy.The intermediate smoker is an addict. Maybe you should be sympathetic.
As for your other comments, I *empathize* with the addict, as I do with any person who is suffering. Your notions about the beginning smoker are balderdash.
Mental health
People with mental health problems are more likely to smoke, and smoke more heavily, than the general population, and they’re often overlooked when it comes to offering help to quit.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2014/jul/15/smoking-and-mental-health-whats-the-connection
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/publications/smoking-and-mental-health
Cigarette Smoking and Psychiatric Comorbidity in Children and Adolescents
Psychiatric comorbidity is common in adolescent cigarette smokers, especially disruptive behavior disorders (such as oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder), major depressive disorders, and drug and alcohol use disorders. Anxiety disorders are modestly associated with cigarette smoking. Both early onset (<13 years) cigarette smoking and conduct problems seem to be robust markers of increased psychopathology, including substance abuse, later in life. In spite of the high comorbidity, very few adolescents have nicotine dependence diagnosed or receive smoking cessation treatment in child and adolescent psychiatric treatment settings.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709606341
Age
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/287555-overview#a4
Studies reveal that the average age of first-time smokers is 14.5 years and the average age of daily smokers is 17.7 years. Approximately 20% of high school seniors smoke.
http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/about-smoking/facts-figures/children-teens-and-tobacco.html
Key Facts About Tobacco Use Among Children and Teenagers
Among adults who smoke, 68 percent began smoking regularly at age 18 or younger, and 85 percent started when they were 21 or younger.4 The average age of daily smoking initiation for new smokers in 2008 was 20.1 years among those 12-49 years old.5
Every day, almost 3,900 children under 18 years of age try their first cigarette, and more than 950 of them will become new, regular daily smokers.6 Half of them will ultimately die from their habit.7
People who begin smoking at an early age are more likely to develop a severe addiction to nicotine than those who start at a later age. Of adolescents who have smoked at least 100 cigarettes in their lifetime, most of them report that they would like to quit, but are not able to do so.8
Prevalence of Tobacco Use Among Children and Teenagers
In 2007, 20 percent of high school students reported smoking in the last 30 days, down 45 percent from 36.4 percent in 1997 when rates peaked after increasing throughout the first half of the 1990s.9
Among high school students in 2007, the most prevalent forms of tobacco used were cigarettes (20 percent), cigars (13.6 percent), and smokeless tobacco (includes chewing tobacco and snuff; 7.9 percent).10
The decline in smoking among high school girls has slowed recently. Between 1999 and 2003, cigarette smoking prevalence among high school girls decreased by 37 percent. However, between 2003 and 2007, there was only a 15 percent decrease in prevalence of cigarette use.11
In 2004, 11.7 percent of middle school students reported using any tobacco product; 8.4 percent used cigarettes. In 2004, 5.3 percent of middle school students were current cigar users, a decline of 30 percent since 1997.12
Since 1990 teenagers and young adults have had the highest rates of maternal smoking during pregnancy. In 2005, 16.6 percent of female teens aged 15-19 and 18.6 percent of women aged 20-24 smoked during pregnancy.13
In 2007, 49.7 percent of current smokers in high school had tried to quit smoking cigarettes.14 In 2002, 55.4 percent of middle school students who smoked seriously tried to quit.15
Additional Facts About Tobacco Use Among Children and Teenagers
The 1998 Master Settlement Agreement (MSA) prohibited tobacco companies from advertising their products in ways that target youth. However, this has not accomplished its intended goal of curtailing tobacco exposure in children.16 Since the MSA, the average youth in the U.S. has been exposed to 559 tobacco ads.17 The impact of the MSA has been weakened as Big Tobacco switched the target of their marketing resources to young adults, seen as a primary role model by older teens.18
Exposure to pro-tobacco marketing and media more than doubles the chances (2.2 times) of children and adolescents starting tobacco use.19
One study found that teens exposed to the greatest amount of smoking in movies were 2.6 times more likely to start smoking themselves compared with teens who watched the least amount of smoking in movies.20
SES & Education
Smoking rates are higher among low socioeconomic (SES) groups, and there is evidence that inequalities in smoking are widening over time in many countries. Low SES smokers may be more likely to smoke and less likely to quit because smoking is heavily concentrated in their social contexts. This study investigated whether low SES smokers (1) have more smoking friends, and (2) are more likely to gain and less likely to lose smoking friends over time. Correlates of having more smoking friends and gaining or losing smoking friends were also considered.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25156228
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/12/303/
Lower educated respondents were significantly more likely to be smokers, smoked more cigarettes per day, had higher initiation ratios, and had lower quit ratios than higher educated respondents. Income inequalities were smaller than educational inequalities and were not all significant, but were in the same direction as educational inequalities. Among women, educational inequalities widened significantly between 2001 and 2008 for smoking prevalence, smoking initiation, and smoking cessation. Among low educated women, smoking prevalence remained stable between 2001 and 2008 because both the initiation and quit ratio increased significantly. Among moderate and high educated women, smoking prevalence decreased significantly because initiation ratios remained constant, while quit ratios increased significantly. Among men, educational inequalities widened significantly between 2001 and 2008 for smoking consumption only.
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^^ All that is true in the US, but it does not add up to: "The beginning smoker is likely to have incipient or preexisting mental health problems & be really young & less well educated afaik."
Perhaps an example will clarify: while smoking is highly prevalent in a psychiatric ward, the overwhelming fraction of smokers do not have psychiatric illness.0 -
[/quote]
In 1980, obese people were rarer and were probably obese because of more specific, individual reasons (psychological, medical, whatever). Today, you have to fight to NOT be overweight or obese. [/quote]
That is beyond ridiculous.
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