Personal Trainer & Weight Management Certified here to help!
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »Sometimes I think that MFP is one of those organizations funded by Coca Cola (you know the message -- all about exercise, and just eating "right" amount of calories, doesn't matter what you eat.) Go for it I say -- just try eating crap to your calorie macro and see how you feel, and how much exercise you are motivated to do. I eat to my calories AND my macros. The combination keeps me health and feeling satisfied. When my macros get out of balance for ME then I have a hard time sticking to my food plan and calorie plan. (PS my macros are higher protein/lower carb, cause that's how I feel best and most motivated to stick to my calorie macros).
Then i would suggest that is how you interpret the information. If you want to look at semantics, yes you can lose on a diet of junk food (i.e twinkie diet) but no one ever would suggest that. Commonly we promote a diet full of variety, foods that are nutrient dense (probably 80 to 90% of them), finding a diet that is sustainable and if you have calories left over then go ahead and have a treat.
Personally, i was eating a klondike on a nightly basis, but decided to give it up once i really bumped up my lifting routine. I made this decision as i needed greater volume of food. So now i do grapes with cool whip. Same calories, both good (obviously klondike > grapes) but the volume is much greater on the grapes.
Since there are so many people that "misinterpret" your message, I would suggest to rethink your communication strategy.
("your" of course is not referred specifically to you, but in general to those that promote IIFYM/flexible dieting/moderation and are "misinterpreted")
If the greater you cant read past my first setence then its not an interpretation issue.. its a reading issue.
These are your moderators, @Alex
What's wrong with what i wrote? I wasnt insulting anyone. Common problems is people dont read the entire paragraph and they make assumptions.
That way i wrote my first statement is a perfect example of how i write. I provided a clear understanding of how people typically take responses and then i clarified the context of what is actually said.
The fact that you can't see "what's wrong" is part of the problem.
I've heard of this game!! It's so fun!!0 -
I can't access the article but this is interesting re moderate consumption of alcohol.
Not saying that those benefits cannot be accessed elsewhere, but I think it is wrong to state that moderate consumption alcohol is 'empty calories'
I'm actually, personally, not much of a drinker - but I do hate it when people demonise particular food groups - alcohol is a food group right?
Standridge JB, Zylstra RG, Adams SM
Department of Family Medicine, University of Tennessee College of Medicine, Chattanooga Unit, Chattanooga, TN, USA.
Abstract
Published health benefits of regular light-to-moderate alcohol consumption include lower myocardial infarction rates, reduced heart failure rates, reduced risk of ischemic stroke, lower risk for dementia, decreased risk of diabetes and reduced risk of osteoporosis. Numerous complimentary biochemical changes have been identified that explain the beneficial effects of moderate alcohol consumption. Heavy alcohol consumption, however, can negatively affect neurologic, cardiac, gastrointestinal, hematologic, immune, psychiatric and musculoskeletal organ systems. Binge drinking is a significant problem even among moderate drinkers and is associated with particularly high social and economic costs. A cautious approach should be emphasized for those individuals who drink even small amounts of alcohol. Physicians can apply the research evidence describing the known risks and benefits of alcohol consumption when counseling their patients regarding alcohol consumption.0 -
Possibly. I get people that comment all the time that they can't believe I can eat pizza, fast food, and processed foods and not gain. But, then again they are only hearing about the junk food and not the other 80% of the time of nutritious eating.christinev297 wrote: »I guess it may sometimes be seen as bragging?? "I eat all the junk I can fit into my calories". Obviously not in those exact words, but that is how it sometimes comes across.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I think one of the challenges is you're a active in shape individual that burns a bunch of calories. You or someone like yourself can get proper nutrition (your macros and micros) eating 80% nutritious. For someone on a lower calorie diet, it's going to be much more difficult to get needed nutrition if 20% of say 1500 calories come from candy, cakes, chips, ice cream, etc.0 -
asimmons26 wrote: »Just adding to my earlier post. At the beginning of this, I was asked about losing weight and suggesting how to get there. If anyone wants to eat empty calories or not make the most of what they consume then that's their prerogative. My suggestions are healthy choices which are much more beneficial to the body. Your body needs nutrients to feel satisfied and without nutrients you over eat bc your body still hasn't received what it needs.
Your suggestions are great but they are open to debate and some assertions lack scientific basis...that's the issue with "nutrition courses". Anybody can call themselves a nutritionist after an online course.
Empty calories IMO don't exist ...all foodstuffs have a benefit ..now it may be less nutritionally dense but if you've already covered off your macro and micro requirements then the emotional benefits shouldn't be underestimated ...and all food has nutritional benefits on some part of the scale, even if it's just calories
Please back it up if possible.
Empty calorie is as real as CICO logic.
I see you have commented on a number of my posts, (wherever necessary, yes as I do with others!)
not entirely sure why but you appear to be positioning yourself as one who brings science .. I'd really like to see you start to support that with your posts
Accepted, this argument also applies to 'veterans', 'suspects', 'sharp shooters', 'Bro/sis science educators' and many more cherry pick posters.
In one you asserted that alcohol is empty calories, I disagree - even alcohol contains benefits for many
- an emotional affect on the psyche in moderation
- some reports that certain alcoholic beverages contain antioxidants (eg red wine and Resveratrol with some indications that it helps protect the lining of blood vessels in the heart but more research required)
- of course different alcohols contain small quantities of iron and carbs and they all have calories eg energy
- my favourite benefit is that alcohol serves to lessen inhibitions which in general serves to increase the general amusement and interest factor in any social situation - which increases the amount of laughter and we all know laughing is good for the heart - maybe that's just with my friends though
I'm at loss of words here.
Obviously not. Can here you tsk-tsking all the way to Germany.
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I can't access the article but this is interesting re moderate consumption of alcohol.
Not saying that those benefits cannot be accessed elsewhere, but I think it is wrong to state that moderate consumption alcohol is 'empty calories'
I'm actually, personally, not much of a drinker - but I do hate it when people demonise particular food groups - alcohol is a food group right?
Standridge JB, Zylstra RG, Adams SM
Department of Family Medicine, University of Tennessee College of Medicine, Chattanooga Unit, Chattanooga, TN, USA.
Abstract
Published health benefits of regular light-to-moderate alcohol consumption include lower myocardial infarction rates, reduced heart failure rates, reduced risk of ischemic stroke, lower risk for dementia, decreased risk of diabetes and reduced risk of osteoporosis. Numerous complimentary biochemical changes have been identified that explain the beneficial effects of moderate alcohol consumption. Heavy alcohol consumption, however, can negatively affect neurologic, cardiac, gastrointestinal, hematologic, immune, psychiatric and musculoskeletal organ systems. Binge drinking is a significant problem even among moderate drinkers and is associated with particularly high social and economic costs. A cautious approach should be emphasized for those individuals who drink even small amounts of alcohol. Physicians can apply the research evidence describing the known risks and benefits of alcohol consumption when counseling their patients regarding alcohol consumption.
@rabbitjb Please do not get me wrong.
I am augmenting against an argument and not starting a new one and these are purely discussion based arguments and not against any person per se.
I am not demonising any food group and I can not because I believe in CICO logic.
I stand behind my argument that empty calorie is not a fictional or manipulative word, it is a real thing.
Now what others want to consume during their weight loss journey is purely their own judgement, after all they will be the recipients of the results and it is their own voyage.
Thank you, I like most of your posts, so please keep posting, I am a fan not a hater but it does not mean I can not disagree with you. xoxo
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So what exactly is wrong with these so called "empty calories"?0
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »asimmons26 wrote: »Just adding to my earlier post. At the beginning of this, I was asked about losing weight and suggesting how to get there. If anyone wants to eat empty calories or not make the most of what they consume then that's their prerogative. My suggestions are healthy choices which are much more beneficial to the body. Your body needs nutrients to feel satisfied and without nutrients you over eat bc your body still hasn't received what it needs.
Your suggestions are great but they are open to debate and some assertions lack scientific basis...that's the issue with "nutrition courses". Anybody can call themselves a nutritionist after an online course.
Empty calories IMO don't exist ...all foodstuffs have a benefit ..now it may be less nutritionally dense but if you've already covered off your macro and micro requirements then the emotional benefits shouldn't be underestimated ...and all food has nutritional benefits on some part of the scale, even if it's just calories
Please back it up if possible.
Empty calorie is as real as CICO logic.
I see you have commented on a number of my posts, (wherever necessary, yes as I do with others!)
not entirely sure why but you appear to be positioning yourself as one who brings science .. I'd really like to see you start to support that with your posts
Accepted, this argument also applies to 'veterans', 'suspects', 'sharp shooters', 'Bro/sis science educators' and many more cherry pick posters.
In one you asserted that alcohol is empty calories, I disagree - even alcohol contains benefits for many
- an emotional affect on the psyche in moderation
- some reports that certain alcoholic beverages contain antioxidants (eg red wine and Resveratrol with some indications that it helps protect the lining of blood vessels in the heart but more research required)
- of course different alcohols contain small quantities of iron and carbs and they all have calories eg energy
- my favourite benefit is that alcohol serves to lessen inhibitions which in general serves to increase the general amusement and interest factor in any social situation - which increases the amount of laughter and we all know laughing is good for the heart - maybe that's just with my friends though
I'm at loss of words here.
Obviously not. Can here you tsk-tsking all the way to Germany.
I did not get it but I assume it was meant to funny, so I giggled!
tsk-tsking.....haha!0 -
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I can't access the article but this is interesting re moderate consumption of alcohol.
Not saying that those benefits cannot be accessed elsewhere, but I think it is wrong to state that moderate consumption alcohol is 'empty calories'
I'm actually, personally, not much of a drinker - but I do hate it when people demonise particular food groups - alcohol is a food group right?
Standridge JB, Zylstra RG, Adams SM
Department of Family Medicine, University of Tennessee College of Medicine, Chattanooga Unit, Chattanooga, TN, USA.
Abstract
Published health benefits of regular light-to-moderate alcohol consumption include lower myocardial infarction rates, reduced heart failure rates, reduced risk of ischemic stroke, lower risk for dementia, decreased risk of diabetes and reduced risk of osteoporosis. Numerous complimentary biochemical changes have been identified that explain the beneficial effects of moderate alcohol consumption. Heavy alcohol consumption, however, can negatively affect neurologic, cardiac, gastrointestinal, hematologic, immune, psychiatric and musculoskeletal organ systems. Binge drinking is a significant problem even among moderate drinkers and is associated with particularly high social and economic costs. A cautious approach should be emphasized for those individuals who drink even small amounts of alcohol. Physicians can apply the research evidence describing the known risks and benefits of alcohol consumption when counseling their patients regarding alcohol consumption.
@rabbitjb Please do not get me wrong.
I am augmenting against an argument and not starting a new one and these are purely discussion based arguments and not against any person per se.
I am not demonising any food group and I can not because I believe in CICO logic.
I stand behind my argument that empty calorie is not a fictional or manipulative word, it is a real thing.
Now what others want to consume during their weight loss journey is purely their own judgement, after all they will be the recipients of the results and it is their own voyage.
Thank you, I like most of your posts, so please keep posting, I am a fan not a hater but it does not mean I can not disagree with you. xoxo
I don't ever take things personally - when I comment on a post it's because I have an interest in what has been said @Aani15
I really don't get what an 'empty calorie' is. Would you care to elaborate? I have in terms of the one comestible item you pulled up, namely alcohol
Now can you expound on why you believe this to be an 'empty calorie'0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Possibly. I get people that comment all the time that they can't believe I can eat pizza, fast food, and processed foods and not gain. But, then again they are only hearing about the junk food and not the other 80% of the time of nutritious eating.christinev297 wrote: »I guess it may sometimes be seen as bragging?? "I eat all the junk I can fit into my calories". Obviously not in those exact words, but that is how it sometimes comes across.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I think one of the challenges is you're a active in shape individual that burns a bunch of calories. You or someone like yourself can get proper nutrition (your macros and micros) eating 80% nutritious. For someone on a lower calorie diet, it's going to be much more difficult to get needed nutrition if 20% of say 1500 calories come from candy, cakes, chips, ice cream, etc.
Yeah, the 80/20 rule is probably adequate only for active people.
For the general population, choosemyplate suggests different proportions:
http://www.choosemyplate.gov/how-many
So for instance, only 120 discretionary calories are suggested for older women on a 1600 calories diet (that is just 7,5% of the total).
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Packerjohn wrote: »
Possibly. I get people that comment all the time that they can't believe I can eat pizza, fast food, and processed foods and not gain. But, then again they are only hearing about the junk food and not the other 80% of the time of nutritious eating.christinev297 wrote: »I guess it may sometimes be seen as bragging?? "I eat all the junk I can fit into my calories". Obviously not in those exact words, but that is how it sometimes comes across.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I think one of the challenges is you're a active in shape individual that burns a bunch of calories. You or someone like yourself can get proper nutrition (your macros and micros) eating 80% nutritious. For someone on a lower calorie diet, it's going to be much more difficult to get needed nutrition if 20% of say 1500 calories come from candy, cakes, chips, ice cream, etc.
Well I can hit my macro requirements in 1200 calories if I chose to. Leaving the 20% (300 calories) for chips (85 cals), Ice cream (90 cals), cookies (72 cals) because I choose the ones I like (eg Walkers pops / Quavers - Solero / Fab, McVities Rich Tea)
And it's not like the less nutritiously rich foods you mention don't help with hitting macros too
But it's about choice - there's no reason why people can't manage it - even if it's difficult - if they choose to / if it's important to their wellbeing
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I can understand the comment about empty calories. When I started losing weight, I tracked everything I was eating and drinking pre calorie restriction.
When I looked at my numbers, I wasn't actually eating a huge amount, but I was creating quite a large calorie surplus through alcohol.
I was getting lots of calories from booze but it wasn't helping me hit any macros. A beer when I got in from work didn't help to stop me feeling hungry.
For me cutting out booze was a very simple way to get to my deficit and still enjoy the same foods. Now I am further along and have slowly got better at reducing portion size, understanding the amount of calories in various foods I am happy to add those "empty" calories back in to my diet.
I generally hit my macros, so it's not a problem to have something which just bumps up my calorie intake.0 -
I can understand the comment about empty calories. When I started losing weight, I tracked everything I was eating and drinking pre calorie restriction.
When I looked at my numbers, I wasn't actually eating a huge amount, but I was creating quite a large calorie surplus through alcohol.
I was getting lots of calories from booze but it wasn't helping me hit any macros. A beer when I got in from work didn't help to stop me feeling hungry.
For me cutting out booze was a very simple way to get to my deficit and still enjoy the same foods. Now I am further along and have slowly got better at reducing portion size, understanding the amount of calories in various foods I am happy to add those "empty" calories back in to my diet.
I generally hit my macros, so it's not a problem to have something which just bumps up my calorie intake.
OK I get that
But it doesn't make the food itself an 'Empty Calorie' - it just means it's not something that you can use as a building block to hitting your daily macro (and micro) targets or satisfying your overall hunger
Perhaps we are coming at it from a different angle?
I always look in terms of overall diet - and I really don't like labelling any food as bad inherently - 'empty calorie' to me sounds like a condemnation and it's a non-sequitur because you can go back to the food like I did with alcohol and identify individual beneficial effects.
I really think it is about choice - calling a food bad for you / empty is reducing choice0 -
Not sure how a calorie can be full or empty. It's like fuel for your car. Some gas is better than others, sure, but both run your car. Over time, the higher quality gas will allow your car's engine to last longer than the cheaper stuff. There's no such thing as empty gas though.
A calorie is a calorie. The stuff you get those calories from makes a difference in the long run, but the calories get used just the same.0 -
Totally agree, it doesn't make the food an empty calorie. Other people will identify totally different items in their diets which they are happy to cut out / down first. For some people, that drink when they get in from work is their chance to de-stress and probably has lots of mental and emotional benefits for them.
I'm current spending quite a bit of time explaining to my daughter that no foods are "bad" because she keeps on saying X is bad for you etc, which I guess is coming from school. I make a point of saying nothing is bad, it's more how much we eat of things which can be bad for our health.
I suppose I was saying I understand it concept behind the term. But thinking about it, the label of it isn't a great one. Why make people feel bad about consuming something which helps them. There is probably always a better option to you food, something with more protein, more/less carbs/fats depending on your need. Does that make the worse option an empty calorie because it isn't as good as something else.
My wife is almost coming around to the idea of joining MFP and I know 100% that she won't be creating her deficit from stopping the drink, she enjoys it too much. So she will look to get better bang for her buck from something else. Not have a packet of crisps for 130 cals and glass of wine instead.
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Totally agree, it doesn't make the food an empty calorie. Other people will identify totally different items in their diets which they are happy to cut out / down first. For some people, that drink when they get in from work is their chance to de-stress and probably has lots of mental and emotional benefits for them.
I'm current spending quite a bit of time explaining to my daughter that no foods are "bad" because she keeps on saying X is bad for you etc, which I guess is coming from school. I make a point of saying nothing is bad, it's more how much we eat of things which can be bad for our health.
I suppose I was saying I understand it concept behind the term. But thinking about it, the label of it isn't a great one. Why make people feel bad about consuming something which helps them. There is probably always a better option to you food, something with more protein, more/less carbs/fats depending on your need. Does that make the worse option an empty calorie because it isn't as good as something else.
My wife is almost coming around to the idea of joining MFP and I know 100% that she won't be creating her deficit from stopping the drink, she enjoys it too much. So she will look to get better bang for her buck from something else. Not have a packet of crisps for 130 cals and glass of wine instead.
This is all very true. When one is working around a set calorie amount, especially if they are new to understanding the numbers that they need to manage in order to lose/maintain/gain, they have to prioritize. It may take a bit of trial and error to determine what mix of foods give you a good mix of nutrient dense, satiating calories, and allowing for a "treat" that you enjoy that helps with making the whole process more enjoyable. For me, I really enjoy wine and sweets, but especially when I was losing (currently maintaining), I had to choose one or the other to fit in my day. Wine almost always wins for me! I just look at this whole process as a math or chemistry equation. Figure out how to balance both sides (cals in and cals out), but there are a number of ways to do that. If you change one side of the equation, you make adjustments on the other. I really don't understand why people try to make it harder than it needs to be.
Also, my kids have been asking those questions too. "Are French fries healthy?" "Is milk healthy?" "Is sugar healthy?" I swear they must have been playing on my phone and stumbled across the MFP boards!
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queenliz99 wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »
You hang out, see who can back it up with science. You learn who you can trust. No one is infallible but there are some here that are darn close and if they say something that is incorrect it is usually minor. I trust @ninerbuff @rabbitjb @SLLRunner @usmcmp and many others here because they give great advice. Anyone who is newer, I always take a wait and see approach. There are others who have lots of posts, who are not as trustworthy, but they usually get called out. When someone calls someone else out, with science, it is the BEST!How are we suppose to know who's actually right and who's wrong.
I need proof please... Post it! Thanks.
Adding @SideSteel
Steve Troutman. . . .if I could I find the thread he had up over the winter I'd post it. . . .0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Possibly. I get people that comment all the time that they can't believe I can eat pizza, fast food, and processed foods and not gain. But, then again they are only hearing about the junk food and not the other 80% of the time of nutritious eating.christinev297 wrote: »I guess it may sometimes be seen as bragging?? "I eat all the junk I can fit into my calories". Obviously not in those exact words, but that is how it sometimes comes across.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I think one of the challenges is you're a active in shape individual that burns a bunch of calories. You or someone like yourself can get proper nutrition (your macros and micros) eating 80% nutritious. For someone on a lower calorie diet, it's going to be much more difficult to get needed nutrition if 20% of say 1500 calories come from candy, cakes, chips, ice cream, etc.
Well I can hit my macro requirements in 1200 calories if I chose to. Leaving the 20% (300 calories) for chips (85 cals), Ice cream (90 cals), cookies (72 cals) because I choose the ones I like (eg Walkers pops / Quavers - Solero / Fab, McVities Rich Tea)
And it's not like the less nutritiously rich foods you mention don't help with hitting macros too
But it's about choice - there's no reason why people can't manage it - even if it's difficult - if they choose to / if it's important to their wellbeing
Yup this. Even with the 120 discretionary calories listed above. That's a glass of wine, a skinny cow ice cream bar, two squares of dark chocolate, half serving of chips and salsa.., It really is all about choices. It can be done, and with more activity/planning, it can be done often.
It seems that in addition to assuming that someone saying they eat "treats" that they are eating a vast amount of their calories in those treats, people also assume that if you can't eat massive amounts of those treats then it's not worth eating any of them.
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There are benefits to consuming things considered to be "empty calories", beyond nutrition. I absolutely think they should be included in your diet even when you are aiming for a calorie deficit. I used to think differently, but that was before I tracked calories and aimed for a moderate deficit. My old style of dieting was always overly aggressive. I didn't count calories but I'm pretty sure I teetered on the edge of a VLCD. No room for anything that wasn't jam packed with nutrients then.
I use a sugary gel, or even just jelly beans, as a boost during a long intense tennis match, for instance. I have a drink or two in social situations. I have treats every day, just for the joy of it. I still have no problem with the term "empty calorie". They are calories that aren't delivering much in the way of nutrition, but they can still be a positive in moderation.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »I guess it may sometimes be seen as bragging?? "I eat all the junk I can fit into my calories". Obviously not in those exact words, but that is how it sometimes comes across.
That sounds more like an issue with interpretation than bragging...
If I say that I had wine tonight, or a piece of chocolate cake last night, and you interpret that as me bragging, or misconstrue that that I'm not focused on nutrition, then that's on you. It doesn't mean that I didn't eat other nutrient dense foods or that fitness isn't also a priority.
I never said that's how I took it. It was more a response to the poster above that mentioned coca-cola and how she possibly came up with that conclusion.
I thought when you said "that's how it sometimes comes across" that meant that's how you interpreted it.
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