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Giving up sugar for good
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It feels like I'm witnessing a discussion on a religious topic, its sooo long.
So far I've learned that:
1. everyone who decides to give up sugar believes that they should because it is as addictive as heroin.
2. all mfp longtimers are really healthy and they all eat sugar 'in moderation'.
3. *kitten* don't eat sugary foods, especially candy bars and their pimps never buy those things for them.
IDK
Don't forget the part that aspartame is made of weed killer rather than amino acids. That's an important point to take away as well.8 -
not_my_first_rodeo wrote: »hollyrayburn wrote: »Good luck eliminating sugar completely, as it is in everything.
It is possible to go without consuming added sugar. I've done it. It's a lot of work and label reading and takes a lot of planning, but you can do it.
I have done this in the past. Why? Because I wanted to throw myself back into cooking, because I was trying to eat fewer processed foods, because I eat my feelings, and I never seem to be able to control myself and only eat one piece of candy. Do I eat added sugar now? Yes. I just eat less of it.
If you read through the thread you will note that a substantial part of the debate is that there is no difference...your body cannot tell the difference between added sugars or naturally occurring sugars because on a molecular level, they are the same.
Personally, I advocate for a diet consisting largely of whole foods because I'm just pretty big on nutrition in general...plus I thoroughly enjoy cooking and frankly, I'm a total food snob and can't fathom enjoying a diet consisting largely of something I pore out of a box and into a pot. The SAD is by and large piss poor and a better discussion IMO would be moving away from it...pretty much anything is better than the SAD, but I'm very much in the balanced approach camp. Moving away from the SAD would largely involve a reduction in sugar and simple carbohydrates as well as fat and moderating these thing...not eliminating them.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, most people go to extremes when it comes to this stuff and fail to see that there's a huge middle ground...and as is with most things, the middle ground is usually where the truth is found.4 -
You may want to brush up on your physiology a bit. The human brain relies on glucose (that's a sugar, in case you didn't know) as its main source of energy. The brain accounts for 2% of your body weight, but consumes about 20% of your glucose-derived energy. (All of which may actually help explain some of the posts in this thread.)
I believe the body can produce glycogen from dietary protein as well in the absence of carbohydrates, is that not correct?As for the whole addiction BS - I've seen alcoholics who will drink mouthwash for its alcohol content when they don't have access to booze. I've seen plenty of heroin and meth addicts who will commit burglaries or steal from their own families to support their habits. Show me a "sugar addict" who will grab a spoon and start shoveling down sugar from a bag when their usual treats aren't available if you want to talk about sugar truly being addictive. Or maybe one who goes and breaks into other people's houses to eat their sugary treats.
Well the truth is that there is rarely a place/time when one doesn't have access to sugary treats (at least in the West).
But yes there are many documented cases of people who sneak/steal food, or go out in the middle of the night to a 24-hr convenience store to get it.
Right, "food". People will sneak food, like chicken legs or potato chips even. Not necessarily sugar. Do you have any tales of some sugar addict realizing they are out of soda so they sneak a spoon and a bag of sugar into their room?
Sugar is not an addictive substance. People for sure can develop an emotional or behavioral addiction to eating. But sugar is not an addictive substance.5 -
Reading over this, it looks like what it comes down to is something to blame for a lack of self control.
If it is an addiction (and I am firmly in the camp that it is not an addiction, but a reason to justify over consumption, and that includes any and all foods/drinks, if you really need something to blame other than yourself), it is one addiction that I would rather have than alcohol, drugs, sex, tobacco, or any other thing you can name.
Food and water are the two things no one can survive without, and for most of us, eating/drinking is a pleasant experience.4 -
It feels like I'm witnessing a discussion on a religious topic, its sooo long.
So far I've learned that:
1. everyone who decides to give up sugar believes that they should because it is as addictive as heroin.
2. all mfp longtimers are really healthy and they all eat sugar 'in moderation'.
3. *kitten* don't eat sugary foods, especially candy bars and their pimps never buy those things for them.
IDK
4. Everyone who decides to give up sugar is shifting the blame, trying to avoid taking responsibility and/or hysterical.
5. Sugar isn't addictive because people won't steal to get it, but if they do, that's only because they're kleptomaniacs.
6. The definition of moderation is: "whatever works for me"...
7. Because some MFP members aren't addicted to sugar, that means no-one else is either.
This is great!! (:-)3 -
Your rat studies do not bear out against human studies and metastudies for the case of sugar addiction. Way to not read ANYTHING in this thread that has already addressed studies, dopamine release, or behavioral disorders surrounding food.
Well, in my defense... I didn't see that there were multiple pages when I began to write the response.
And frankly, I don't have the time to respond to each and every argument that I disagree with. I'm seeing by reading through the responses on the post it wouldn't matter anyway - so frankly - I'm not going to waste my time. I know my experience. Perhaps yours is different.
I've cut refined sugars out of my life and am moving more towards a keto lifestyle. Personally, it works for me. You do what works for you. Refined sugars, and processed carbohydrates don't work for me. Plain and simple.2 -
Question for @Ty_Floyd: you said earlier that science was still out on this, meaning that it hasn't been proven that sugar isn't addictive, or that it is. Why do you want it to be? What will it mean for you personally if sugar someday gets classified as a drug?5
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Addictive drugs are addictive in their 'refined' state but not when consumed in their natural (plant) state. The same theory is now being applied to sugar.
This is not true. Natural fermentation produces alcohol - which is just as addictive as "refined" alcohol. Squirrels get drunk on naturally fermented fruit, as do elephants and birds. And "natural" cigarettes are just as addictive as "unnatural" cigarettes.
6 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »Question for @Ty_Floyd: you said earlier that science was still out on this, meaning that it hasn't been proven that sugar isn't addictive, or that it is. Why do you want it to be? What will it mean for you personally if sugar someday gets classified as a drug?
That's a good question. I wouldn't say I *want* it to be classified as a drug, but perhaps if it were people would be less inclined/have less opportunity to develop it as a harmless habit that's they're eventually going to pay for big time. I'm sure it's come all too late for my generation but perhaps not for the next...
(In my parents' day people used to scoff at the idea that smoking was harmful too...)1 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »Question for @Ty_Floyd: you said earlier that science was still out on this, meaning that it hasn't been proven that sugar isn't addictive, or that it is. Why do you want it to be? What will it mean for you personally if sugar someday gets classified as a drug?
That's a good question. I wouldn't say I *want* it to be classified as a drug, but perhaps if it were people would be less inclined/have less opportunity to develop it as a harmless habit that's they're eventually going to pay for big time. I'm sure it's come all too late for my generation but perhaps not for the next...
(In my parents' day people used to scoff at the idea that smoking was harmful too...)
And in the '80s, fat was the devil and we were all going to die if we didn't stop eating teh fatz. Yet keto is now all the craze, with people pouring butter and oil in their coffee and munching on "fat bombs".6 -
You may want to brush up on your physiology a bit. The human brain relies on glucose (that's a sugar, in case you didn't know) as its main source of energy. The brain accounts for 2% of your body weight, but consumes about 20% of your glucose-derived energy. (All of which may actually help explain some of the posts in this thread.)
I believe the body can produce glycogen from dietary protein as well in the absence of carbohydrates, is that not correct?As for the whole addiction BS - I've seen alcoholics who will drink mouthwash for its alcohol content when they don't have access to booze. I've seen plenty of heroin and meth addicts who will commit burglaries or steal from their own families to support their habits. Show me a "sugar addict" who will grab a spoon and start shoveling down sugar from a bag when their usual treats aren't available if you want to talk about sugar truly being addictive. Or maybe one who goes and breaks into other people's houses to eat their sugary treats.
Well the truth is that there is rarely a place/time when one doesn't have access to sugary treats (at least in the West).
But yes there are many documented cases of people who sneak/steal food, or go out in the middle of the night to a 24-hr convenience store to get it.
Right, "food". People will sneak food, like chicken legs or potato chips even. Not necessarily sugar. Do you have any tales of some sugar addict realizing they are out of soda so they sneak a spoon and a bag of sugar into their room?
Sugar is not an addictive substance. People for sure can develop an emotional or behavioral addiction to eating. But sugar is not an addictive substance.
Quoting myself because with everything else in this thread, why not start quoting ourselves?
What is really blowing my mind is, no one is saying everyone should eat massive amounts of sugar. No one is denying that excess sugar is a prime reason for excess calories, and probably affects the body in other adverse ways. No one is saying that moderating sugar intake in general or added sugar in particular is a bad idea. No one is saying that avoiding added sugar is a bad idea. NO ONE.
All anyone is saying is that sugar is not an addictive substance, and you don't need to eliminate it from your diet. That's it. If you want to cut out added sugar because you have no control with it, go for it! But that doesn't make it addictive, it doesn't make it necessary for everyone to do, it doesn't make sugar the one big problem for everyone. That's all anyone is saying!18 -
You may want to brush up on your physiology a bit. The human brain relies on glucose (that's a sugar, in case you didn't know) as its main source of energy. The brain accounts for 2% of your body weight, but consumes about 20% of your glucose-derived energy. (All of which may actually help explain some of the posts in this thread.)
I believe the body can produce glycogen from dietary protein as well in the absence of carbohydrates, is that not correct?As for the whole addiction BS - I've seen alcoholics who will drink mouthwash for its alcohol content when they don't have access to booze. I've seen plenty of heroin and meth addicts who will commit burglaries or steal from their own families to support their habits. Show me a "sugar addict" who will grab a spoon and start shoveling down sugar from a bag when their usual treats aren't available if you want to talk about sugar truly being addictive. Or maybe one who goes and breaks into other people's houses to eat their sugary treats.
Well the truth is that there is rarely a place/time when one doesn't have access to sugary treats (at least in the West).
But yes there are many documented cases of people who sneak/steal food, or go out in the middle of the night to a 24-hr convenience store to get it.
Right, "food". People will sneak food, like chicken legs or potato chips even. Not necessarily sugar. Do you have any tales of some sugar addict realizing they are out of soda so they sneak a spoon and a bag of sugar into their room?
Sugar is not an addictive substance. People for sure can develop an emotional or behavioral addiction to eating. But sugar is not an addictive substance.
Quoting myself because with everything else in this thread, why not start quoting ourselves?
What is really blowing my mind is, no one is saying everyone should eat massive amounts of sugar. No one is denying that excess sugar is a prime reason for excess calories, and probably affects the body in other adverse ways. No one is saying that moderating sugar intake in general or added sugar in particular is a bad idea. No one is saying that avoiding added sugar is a bad idea. NO ONE.
All anyone is saying is that sugar is not an addictive substance, and you don't need to eliminate it from your diet. That's it. If you want to cut out added sugar because you have no control with it, go for it! But that doesn't make it addictive, it doesn't make it necessary for everyone to do, it doesn't make sugar the one big problem for everyone.
Hit the nail on the head. Thank you for a bit of sanity.3 -
the fact is that sugar can be a part of an overall healthy diet where one meets macro, micro, and calorie goals. However, if you think that you have a allergy or medical condition that makes one sensitive to sugar then go to a dr and get tested, and if you need to avoid it, then avoid it. Barring said medical condition there is really no reason to say that one is going to "completely eliminate added sugar" or come up with some nonsense about sugar addiction or natural sugar vs added sugar,etc.1
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Our body has absolutely no use of sugar. None! -we eat it because it tastes good. It's a treat. And we like to treat ourselves,even if it's good or bad. Some people are more likely to get addicted to "treats", (in some forms), than others
Salt is something the body needs, BUT not much-just enough! Happy New year 
You may want to brush up on your physiology a bit. The human brain relies on glucose (that's a sugar, in case you didn't know) as its main source of energy. The brain accounts for 2% of your body weight, but consumes about 20% of your glucose-derived energy. (All of which may actually help explain some of the posts in this thread.)
As for the whole addiction BS - I've seen alcoholics who will drink mouthwash for its alcohol content when they don't have access to booze. I've seen plenty of heroin and meth addicts who will commit burglaries or steal from their own families to support their habits. Show me a "sugar addict" who will grab a spoon and start shoveling down sugar from a bag when their usual treats aren't available if you want to talk about sugar truly being addictive. Or maybe one who goes and breaks into other people's houses to eat their sugary treats. The addiction hypothesis is nothing more than a) fearmongering and b) an attempt to absolve people of personal responsibility.
I have heard of people doing weird things like stealing co-workers sugary treats.
I've heard of people doing weird things like stealing co-workers' pens and pencils too. Does that mean they're addicted to pens and pencils?
No, they may just be a klepto or have a need of a pen. Do they have a need of the co-workers sweets?
They steal lunches too. Are they addicted to tuna on rye?5 -
The reason I became overweight is because of over consuming food, and yes, that includes things made with sugar. I would have probably became overweight even if sugar was eliminated from processed foods. Salt is added to everything as well, and I love salty snacks too. Many of us overeat because it tastes good. If celery and lettuce tasted as good as sweet and salt, and still had the amount of calories they have, maybe most of us would not be on this forum, or perhaps we would overeat those foods as well.
Man up and take responsibility for our selves, most of us are not being force fed.2 -
It feels like I'm witnessing a discussion on a religious topic, its sooo long.
So far I've learned that:
1. everyone who decides to give up sugar believes that they should because it is as addictive as heroin.
2. all mfp longtimers are really healthy and they all eat sugar 'in moderation'.
3. *kitten* don't eat sugary foods, especially candy bars and their pimps never buy those things for them.
IDK
4. Everyone who decides to give up sugar is shifting the blame, trying to avoid taking responsibility and/or hysterical.
5. Sugar isn't addictive because people won't steal to get it, but if they do, that's only because they're kleptomaniac there are no human clinical trials showing a direct link.
6. The definition of moderation is: "whatever works for me" eat the foods that fit into your calorie, micro, and macro goals.
7. Because some MFP members aren't addicted to sugar, that means no-one else is either no one is physically addicted to sugar it is not an addictive substance.
This is great!! (:-)
fixed it for you6 -
Addictive drugs are addictive in their 'refined' state but not when consumed in their natural (plant) state. The same theory is now being applied to sugar.
This is not true. Natural fermentation produces alcohol - which is just as addictive as "refined" alcohol. Squirrels get drunk on naturally fermented fruit, as do elephants and birds. And "natural" cigarettes are just as addictive as "unnatural" cigarettes.
I think dose and delivery is where this line of thought is coming from - which of course matters when it comes to drugs. If sugar is a drug, then it stands to reason that small amounts delivered slowly like would be the case with many whole foods could very well make a difference.2 -
I am amused at people who think sugar can not be addictive. ;O2
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KatzeDerNacht22 wrote: »I am amused at people who think sugar can not be addictive. ;O
please point me to the human study proving a direct link between sugar and addiction ...5 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »Question for @Ty_Floyd: you said earlier that science was still out on this, meaning that it hasn't been proven that sugar isn't addictive, or that it is. Why do you want it to be? What will it mean for you personally if sugar someday gets classified as a drug?
That's a good question. I wouldn't say I *want* it to be classified as a drug, but perhaps if it were people would be less inclined/have less opportunity to develop it as a harmless habit that's they're eventually going to pay for big time. I'm sure it's come all too late for my generation but perhaps not for the next...
(In my parents' day people used to scoff at the idea that smoking was harmful too...)
I don't think you'd get any argument from anyone here that over consuming sugar is harmful...that is a far cry different conversation than sugar must be eliminated because it's the equivalent of cocaine. The later lacks any understanding of context or dosage. It's basically a non-starter for a reasonable discussion...6
This discussion has been closed.
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