Done with it!
Replies
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
Actually, a lot of the people here who have achieved their goals have read a lot of research from people who do know what they're doing. People like Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, James Krieger... just to name a few.
I can't tell you how much research I've read while I've done "what works for me", and a lot of it was linked here by those "muscly" men.
You're mistaken in your assumption that just because someone is offering an opinion from experience that the opinion isn't informed and based on research.
Still doesn't make it scientifically/medically/dietitian accredited qualified I'm afraid. It makes it a very well formed opinion. That's it.
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endlessfall16 wrote: »People need to know CICO as much as they need to know eat less, move more. LOL.
Actually they do. More to the point, they need to know how to implement it.
The statistics for how badly people count calories are eye opening. Additionally, the nuances of it are not something most people have familiarity with. I had no idea of what a TDEE was or how variable it could be or even what mine would be until I came here.2 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
But if one is operating under the belief that everybody here is unqualified and don't know the first thing about what they're talking about, why would they ask a question in the first place? Seems to me that I wouldn't expect any useful advice from a pool of people who I thought knew nothing about the topic at hand.10 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
But isn't the bolded why most people post? They either ask for opinions, or they are struggling or confused and ask for help, right? How is it not useful to tell them they don't have to struggle to follow a restrictive plan? How is it more helpful to give them nothing but suggestions on how to continue on a plan they are struggling with?
And where are all these threads where all anybody replies is "It's just CICO"? Can someone point me to one thread where the only replies someone got were just - It's all CICO?4 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
So far in this thread, it honestly seems that the opinions similar to mine are more prevalent than the "everyone on these forums is mean" opinion. And ironically, the "everyone on the forums is mean" crowd are the ones who are generally the most argumentative.
So, yeah. Annoying and disheartening for a few.7 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
But if one is operating under the belief that everybody here is unqualified and don't know the first thing about what they're talking about, why would they ask a question in the first place? Seems to me that I wouldn't expect any useful advice from a pool of people who I thought knew nothing about the topic at hand.
Oh opinions are great and anecdotal info is awesome. But what I thought OP was trying to say (or was annoyed with) was that these opinions are stated at inappropriate times when someone asks a question for e.g. About slim fast diets and then someone comes along to discredit the slim fast diet and say "it's all just cico anyway"0 -
BiomedDent wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
Actually, a lot of the people here who have achieved their goals have read a lot of research from people who do know what they're doing. People like Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, James Krieger... just to name a few.
I can't tell you how much research I've read while I've done "what works for me", and a lot of it was linked here by those "muscly" men.
You're mistaken in your assumption that just because someone is offering an opinion from experience that the opinion isn't informed and based on research.
Still doesn't make it scientifically/medically/dietitian accredited qualified I'm afraid. It makes it a very well formed opinion. That's it.
Exactly---and that's what people are asking for.1 -
Anyway OP don't read them if you don't want to. It's just strangers on the internet.never let it get to you. Chin up! Keep doing what you're doing and I hope your weight loss journey goes swimmingly!
Night x0 -
BiomedDent wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
But if one is operating under the belief that everybody here is unqualified and don't know the first thing about what they're talking about, why would they ask a question in the first place? Seems to me that I wouldn't expect any useful advice from a pool of people who I thought knew nothing about the topic at hand.
Oh opinions are great and anecdotal info is awesome. But what I thought OP was trying to say (or was annoyed with) was that these opinions are stated at inappropriate times when someone asks a question for e.g. About slim fast diets and then someone comes along to discredit the slim fast diet and say "it's all just cico anyway"
The Slim Fast diet is crap, though. Why would we just virtually pat people on the head and say, "Good for you!" when it isn't? <confused>5 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because you don't know her goals, and she might only get so far with something that is working without knowing how it works.
When I low carbed, my weight only ever dropped to 150, because that was the level where my appetite and the supposed control the way of eating would have over it evened out. I was still a good 20 pounds into the overweight category and far, far from where I wanted to be.
I was horribly frustrated by that turn of events and thought, well whaddya know, another "diet" that doesn't work. If I had understood the basics of CICO, I could have achieved my goals.4 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »When people continue their CICO/TDEE/BMR discussions, I often wonder if they realise there is no accurate way of assessing your TDEE/BMR and that in almost every case, calculators are not accurate.
They are a lot more accurate than guessing what your caloric intake might be. Or not caring and continuing to gain weight.5 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
You're projecting your feelings on to others.
It's not disheartening and annoying to everyone. To some? Maybe. But that's where common sense comes in - take the advice that you want/need and ignore what you don't. It isn't that hard. If my advice helps others, then it's worth annoying a few, I suppose.
The annoyance and disheartening effect of saying "it's all cico" is the entire point of this thread
I, for one, couldn't care less how anyone loses weight. Do whatever works for you, but don't listen to those who aren't qualified, telling you what's right and wrong (unless,of course, you ask what could be wrong in the first place)
But if one is operating under the belief that everybody here is unqualified and don't know the first thing about what they're talking about, why would they ask a question in the first place? Seems to me that I wouldn't expect any useful advice from a pool of people who I thought knew nothing about the topic at hand.
Oh opinions are great and anecdotal info is awesome. But what I thought OP was trying to say (or was annoyed with) was that these opinions are stated at inappropriate times when someone asks a question for e.g. About slim fast diets and then someone comes along to discredit the slim fast diet and say "it's all just cico anyway"
The Slim Fast diet is crap, though. Why would we just virtually pat people on the head and say, "Good for you!" when it isn't? <confused>
It was an example. And it's all about personal choice/body autonomy
Ps the shakes actually taste quite nice lol0 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »When people continue their CICO/TDEE/BMR discussions, I often wonder if they realise there is no accurate way of assessing your TDEE/BMR and that in almost every case, calculators are not accurate.
Apparently the most accurate way is to go use a bodpod but at £90/session it's a pricy way to figure it out1 -
∆FosB0
-
When I first started trying to lose weight with MFP, it was a demoralising experience. I am rather a fussy eater and hate most fruits, vegetables and salad-type ingredients, and I thought I had to eat those things I hated and cut out all of the things I loved (like cheese) in order to lose. I did lose some, but I was miserable and quickly gained it all back (and then some).
When I found the forums, and realised that it was a simple numbers equation, my whole world changed. I realised I could eat the things I loved - lasagne, peanut butter toast, toasted cheese sandwiches, bacon, McDonalds, everything I enjoyed - and, as long as I fit them into my calories, I was gravy. It's taken a lot of trial and error, I'll admit, but this is working for me better than anything ever has, and it feels less like Everest and more like gentle slope that I can walk up without feeling impossible.9 -
BiomedDent wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
Actually, a lot of the people here who have achieved their goals have read a lot of research from people who do know what they're doing. People like Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, James Krieger... just to name a few.
I can't tell you how much research I've read while I've done "what works for me", and a lot of it was linked here by those "muscly" men.
You're mistaken in your assumption that just because someone is offering an opinion from experience that the opinion isn't informed and based on research.
Still doesn't make it scientifically/medically/dietitian accredited qualified I'm afraid. It makes it a very well formed opinion. That's it.
Ummm...what else do you think you're going to get from...an...internet...forum? If you wan't qualified blah blah blah, go see a dietitian and stop hanging out on the forums.6 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
I wonder how we were long term successful? Maybe because we did the research and do know what works?4 -
BiomedDent wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
Actually, a lot of the people here who have achieved their goals have read a lot of research from people who do know what they're doing. People like Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, James Krieger... just to name a few.
I can't tell you how much research I've read while I've done "what works for me", and a lot of it was linked here by those "muscly" men.
You're mistaken in your assumption that just because someone is offering an opinion from experience that the opinion isn't informed and based on research.
Still doesn't make it scientifically/medically/dietitian accredited qualified I'm afraid. It makes it a very well formed opinion. That's it.
It's an internet forum, what do you expect?
Frankly, anyone expecting to come on an internet forum receiving certified advice from experts is a bit of a dreamer.
I don't really think you have a point here. My point stands. If people have informed themselves with references from experts in nutrition (look up the credentials of the people I've listed) and are passing along what they're learned from them, they're not just saying "what worked for them".0 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Have you heard of the Chinese Room?1 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »When people continue their CICO/TDEE/BMR discussions, I often wonder if they realise there is no accurate way of assessing your TDEE/BMR and that in almost every case, calculators are not accurate.
They're a starting point. You watch the scale. You compare real results vs. expected results and then you know where you're really at.
If you're a data nerd, you can figure out your own TDEE based on scale performance.
It's not that hard to come to a decently close enough number.4 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »When people continue their CICO/TDEE/BMR discussions, I often wonder if they realise there is no accurate way of assessing your TDEE/BMR and that in almost every case, calculators are not accurate.
Actually, real world data is pretty accurate when combined with logging as accurately as possible...pretty much every veteran user here knows that calculators are just a reasonably good starting point...I'd wager that most everyone has modified their targets based on real world data.
Personally, I don't log...I just make adjustments to my eating habits as required.2 -
-
SymbolismNZ wrote: »When people continue their CICO/TDEE/BMR discussions, I often wonder if they realise there is no accurate way of assessing your TDEE/BMR and that in almost every case, calculators are not accurate.
If there's no accurate way of assessing your TDEE, how have millions of people lost weight via calorie restriction? While calculators are not 100% accurate, one can start with that figure and assess the effect over time to fine tune their intake based upon weight trends. If your weight is trending up over time, you're eating too many calories; if it's trending down too fast, you're eating too few calories. If it's staying essentially still, you're eating at maintenance.
How do YOU think weight loss happens if it's not CICO?
4 -
BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Because it is important knowledge to have that will not only help them on their current journey, but also help them to keep the weight off in the future.
If they are on "X" diet, and don't understand the mechanics behind why they're losing weight, they may revert back to old eating habits once "X" diet is complete and gain the weight back.
And anyway, why would knowledge ever be a bad thing?
As an academic I will wholeheartedly say it's not. But when someone is struggling on a plan they decided to start (which is very hard for some) and they ask a question in reference to aforementioned plan the last thing they need is someone saying "why cut it out? It's all cico"
It's not helpful or useful and it's disheartening (and annoying) to the person asking the question, on the structured plan they chose to start.
If someone is doing a plan and struggling on it, the first thought that comes to mind is "This is not a plan that is working for them", so why encourage them staying on a plan that they are not comfortable with? Why not tell them that hey, you know there's other ways because it all comes down to this in the end? Why do you feel like encouraging them to try an alternative based on understanding how things work when what they've been trying did not work is "the last thing they need"?6 -
stevencloser wrote: »I wonder how we were long term successful? Maybe because we did the research and do know what works?
No, ultimately in many instances those building muscle mass aren't creating building blocks for longer term wellness, nor are they creating functional muscle mass. You've been successful in putting muscle mass onto your frame, congratulations when that's your goal - but in essence it's far easier to do that than get your body into shape for a marathon, or be able to compete in a fight sport where you need a combination of strength, agility, endurance.
Pretty good correlation between those that body build for aesthetics alone and ingest a ton of creatine, BCAA and an over supply of protein and those dying early deaths too.
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SymbolismNZ wrote: »When people continue their CICO/TDEE/BMR discussions, I often wonder if they realise there is no accurate way of assessing your TDEE/BMR and that in almost every case, calculators are not accurate.
If there's no accurate way of assessing your TDEE, how have millions of people lost weight via calorie restriction? While calculators are not 100% accurate, one can start with that figure and assess the effect over time to fine tune their intake based upon weight trends. If your weight is trending up over time, you're eating too many calories; if it's trending down too fast, you're eating too few calories. If it's staying essentially still, you're eating at maintenance.
How do YOU think weight loss happens if it's not CICO?
"How have millions lost weight via calorie restriction" - because in most instances, they're going from 3000ish calories of *kitten*, to 1700-2200 calories of not *kitten*, and going from sedentary to active in terms of their movement.
How come millions of those losing weight put it all back on again? Oh, because they've not retrained their brain, they've not eaten correctly and they've done nothing to stop the underlying issues that caused them to gain it in the first place, they just got good for a while at eating less calories.2 -
SymbolismNZ wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »They are a lot more accurate than guessing what your caloric intake might be. Or not caring and continuing to gain weight.
Well, duh - but when I see most of you extol certain crap like "1 calorie of Celery is the same as 1 calorie of Chocolate" it shows me that your basic understanding of factors like the thermic effect of food is negligible and effectively dangerous to your longer term wellness, let alone micro nutrient balance or eating for longer term fuel in the here and now.
Calorie counting is an essential part of working towards a goal - be it gain or loss - but it's not the be all and end all, and to be honest in most situations, if you're not interested in what you're putting in your mouth so long as it's not breaching your calorie limit, you'll be a thin person with rotten internals.
Most of you who talk about "Getting stuck" at a weight do so because you've not fueled your body correctly, nor done the exercise that will effectively create leaner muscle mass; what you've effectively done over time is make your body more and more efficient and working on the calorie levels you've feed it.
Some realise this over time, eat better food groupings which through thermic effect of food has the benefit of increasing their metabolism and the benefit of better foods means more output during exercise, which means more results.
Do you have a reference for TEF "increasing metabolism"?
That's a new one.
Also, if you want to argue foods with a greater TEF, pick a protein. Biggest bang for TEF buck.6 -
stevencloser wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »BiomedDent wrote: »Do whatever works for you. It's better to do a plan/program and get out of dangerous weight bracket than to try CICO and not succeed because your mind ultimately needs the plan/program to follow to succeed.
Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
This always makes my eye twitch a little...all plans are CICO...CICO =/= calorie counting...it's an energy equation. I don't calorie count, so I have no issues with people following whatever plan really...some are better than others.
I know that all plans are essentially restricting calories in the end but some people need the structure of a plan to achieve a calorie deficit instead of just calorie counting from the off.
Some people can just simply log calories. Some people need a new structure plan like low carb, or slim fast etc etc
Excuse me--and who says that's bad?
Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....
Right, so SOME people need those structures.....so?
Yes like I said, some people need that. And that is fine. Re-read my posts and tell me where it says it's not okay
I think the confusion is coming from this statement:Lots of armchair dietitians/doctors on here. Do not listen to them. Even nutritionists are just glorified calorie counters.
Only genuine accurate diet advice can come from a dietitian and they will say-find what works for you and give you guidance.
If "Literally no one said that calorie counting or requiring structure/plans to do so is bad....", then why would you make a statement that essentially accuses people on this site of putting down those who require more structure?
It's putting everyone's "expert" opinion about calorie counting down-*Ahem* the henched men and women who think because they're muscly and achieved a goal that suddenly they know all about weight loss and nutrition ergo "it's all cico". They don't. They know what worked for them, and them only-they're entitled to opinions but not stating as fact and they're certainly not entitled to put those who need a structured plan down.
Everyone should do whatever works for them-whether that be structured plans or simply logging. And forget what all the self proclaimed "experts" on here say as they are not qualified to do so.
But...it *is* all CICO. Sure, there are different ways to achieve a calorie deficit, but understanding that weight loss boils down to a basic math equation is something that I feel like everyone trying to lose weight needs to understand.
If you need a structured eating plan, great. But I still think it's important to understand that none of us defy physics and any time we lose weight we are implementing CICO, no matter how we eat.
**Just to be clear, "CICO" is the energy equation, not necessarily "calorie counting."
Why do they need to understand It? If their plan (with out knowing it's cico) works why on earth do they need that information?
And more importantly why do strangers on the internet feel compelled to ram it down their throat?
Live and let live. If someone wants advice on their structured plan give it. Don't point out info they don't need instead of offering the info they requested.
Have you heard of the Chinese Room?
See, this is a great example! No I hadn't heard of it. But I just googled it, and now I know something that I didn't before. And all because a muscled torso mentioned it on an internet forum. It's not what the OP asked for, or the post being replied to, but it's something I can file away and have as a tool in my tool box going forward. Kind of like the idea that weight loss ultimately comes down to CICO.
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Rebecca0224 wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Skyblueyellow wrote: »I try to be very nice but I do get concerned about people who want to try diets that aren't sustainable. I don't want to see anyone fail because they erroneously believe that they "can't" have potatoes, or full fat dairy, or a glass of wine. I also don't want people to put their own health at risk. This whole weight loss thing is a journey and we need to come to terms with taking is slow, enjoying the journey, and learning how to eat in ways that make our bodies feel super great.
I'm diabetic and I accept that people on the forum will always want to know WHY a poster is considering a low carb diet. Personally, I respect that. I don't want a person thinking that they HAVE to eat this way to lose weight. It takes commitment and you really have to pay attention to your day as a whole. I've never had anyone be disrespectful to me about my choice. Maybe it is because I have a medical reason to moderate my carb intake. I have no idea. All I know is that I'm generally treated with respect here.
Some people CAN'T have some of those things. Why do so many people here not understand that some people can and some really can't? People are way too hung up on deciding that everyone can and should have everything any day and at anytime. This is just not the case for everyone. There needs to be more respect for others as no one here knows personally what is the case for an internet stranger. Some people really do have to avoid certain foods altogether. But there is this large crowd with criticism at the ready for anyone who feels they want to eliminate that which has been dragging them down. I don't see where that is ever going to help anyone.
I've never seen anybody here "not understand that some people can and some really can't" have certain foods or make certain dietary choices. I moderate carbs due to my own medical issues and preferences. I've never been told that is wrong to do. I've extremely limited certain foods due to a tendency to them being so tempting that I have a hard time eating them in moderation and I've never been told that is wrong to do either. Where are you seeing this happen?
Some time ago I had this happen from a "veteran" member.
After reading some of the labels on some foods that I was eating I decided to eliminate them instead of moderating them. I was told by this "veteran" that I would fail...I must have an eating disorder...I had no will power if I eliminated instead of moderating. There was no misunderstanding of what he said and what he meant.
The difference between me and the OP...I make my own choices and don't really care what someone else thinks. My decisions on what I eat are based on my own needs and the research that I have done.
This "veteran" went on my "pay no attention to list".
I think that there are several people on this site that have never participated on forums before. Many are much worse that this place...you have to develop tough skin sometimes to survive on the internet. I was a little surprised that a diet site could get so argumentative but at least so far no one has told that I deserved to be beaten, raped and murdered! LOL
When someone says that they can't control themselves around a food one of the things that gets asked is are you going to avoid this food forever. Moderation can be different for everyone I have a dark chocolate bar in my fridge I moderate and only eat a couple peices when I want but for other people that can be difficult. My weakness is cashews I will eat the whole container in one sitting, some people can have a handful and be done not me. I won't stop eating them but I will get one single serving pack once in a while. This is how I moderate cashews and I recommend it to everyone over food elimination.
It was not a food that binged on. I only had it on occasion. I haven't missed it. That has been over 2 years ago.
I never said that I couldn't control myself around this item.
I think that you have to know people's personalities before you can recommend how each person handles a food item.
I can moderate pizza...a few other things not so well. I have no problems with ice cream...a good cookie...well not so much. So I don't bake them often.
Yes most of us have our weaknesses and we each have to decide for ourselves how to handle it. For me personally...I picked the things that I really like and have worked to moderate those things. Other things that were just okay...not worth the effort to learn to moderate them.
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