"You can eat whaver you want, as long as you eat at a deficit" is true, but it's garbage advice.
Replies
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
Don't make me cry.
I took it in a rush with my phone because my proper camera had a dead battery. I have a photography degree and I wanted to do food photography, but my college didn't offer that 'specialty'. It is indeed an art, a hair pulling, tantrum throwing, crying in a corner art. 
Gotta love knowing that some of those ice cream photos are actually instant mashed potatoes and Crisco. LOL 7 -
diannethegeek wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Gosh I suck at rage quitting.
I tried to flounce once. It didn't stick.
Me too -- heh!3 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
So is cooking lol.
Indeed. But any dish can be made to look unappetizing if it's photographed poorly, including yours. And nearly all amateur food photography is poor.
Or it could just be poorly cooked. How does one really know? *shrug* Either way not my cup of tea.
One doesn't really know even if it's photographed to look amazingly delicious. The food in a lot of commercial food photography is often barely even cooked, and may not be what it appears at all. http://mentalfloss.com/article/30195/11-ways-advertisers-make-food-look-delicious
Sorry...Wynterbourne wrote: »Don't make me cry.
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Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
Don't make me cry. I took it in a rush with my phone because my proper camera had a dead battery. I have a photography degree and I wanted to do food photography, but my college didn't offer that 'specialty'. It is indeed an art, a hair pulling, tantrum throwing, crying in a corner art. Gotta love knowing that some of those ice cream photos are actually instant mashed potatoes and Crisco. LOL
Odd toppings but otherwise it looked good and Id keep the onions lol1 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
So is cooking lol.
Indeed. But any dish can be made to look unappetizing if it's photographed poorly, including yours. And nearly all amateur food photography is poor.
Or it could just be poorly cooked. How does one really know? *shrug* Either way not my cup of tea.
One doesn't really know even if it's photographed to look amazingly delicious. The food in a lot of commercial food photography is often barely even cooked, and may not be what it appears at all. http://mentalfloss.com/article/30195/11-ways-advertisers-make-food-look-delicious
Sorry...Wynterbourne wrote: »Don't make me cry.
Not sure how me not liking the food turned into food photography. If that pizza was taken with the best photography it still wouldn't be my cup of tea. And that's ok, not everything is for everyone.2 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Gosh I suck at rage quitting.
#FlouncerGelato
eta: As if I don't know better, Dianne beat me to the joke much earlier...3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Gosh I suck at rage quitting.
I tried to flounce once. It didn't stick.
Me too -- heh!
No one goes anywhere. It's all about ME and I still have maintenance to get through so buckle up people!
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
So is cooking lol.
Indeed. But any dish can be made to look unappetizing if it's photographed poorly, including yours. And nearly all amateur food photography is poor.
Or it could just be poorly cooked. How does one really know? *shrug* Either way not my cup of tea.
One doesn't really know even if it's photographed to look amazingly delicious. The food in a lot of commercial food photography is often barely even cooked, and may not be what it appears at all. http://mentalfloss.com/article/30195/11-ways-advertisers-make-food-look-delicious
Sorry...Wynterbourne wrote: »Don't make me cry.
Not sure how me not liking the food turned into food photography. If that pizza was taken with the best photography it still wouldn't be my cup of tea. And that's ok, not everything is for everyone.
Well, the main conversation is going around in circles, so a diversion here or there is inevitable.2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Wynterbourne wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »annacole94 wrote: »I'm sorry I mentioned pizza in my initial reply. I had literally finished a piece of Domino's cheese pizza that my kid started and had nothing but regrets for that.
Good pizza can be worth it and easy to make a balanced meal. I maintain that domino's is gross and have no plans to try novelty crust to test that theory.
Newbies need to buy some big girl panties* and not be quite so thin skinned.
*both genders welcome to try them on and see if it helps.
Domino's doesn't even qualify as pizza.
Why not? I managed a Domino's pizza for years and we used the same things I use to make my pizzas at home. I never understood fast food shaming.
Cause Domino's doesn't have anything that's even close to my homemade caramelized onions, honey chèvre, smoked almonds, and drizzle of balsamic reduction on top of Alton Brown's pizza dough crust pizza.
That does not look appetizing at all, but that's the beauty of differences. What you may like I may not but I will not say that it isn't food or any of the other things I have heard about various fast food places.
Looks amazingly delicious to me, but one must admit it's not the best photo. Food photography is an art.
So is cooking lol.
Indeed. But any dish can be made to look unappetizing if it's photographed poorly, including yours. And nearly all amateur food photography is poor.
Or it could just be poorly cooked. How does one really know? *shrug* Either way not my cup of tea.
One doesn't really know even if it's photographed to look amazingly delicious. The food in a lot of commercial food photography is often barely even cooked, and may not be what it appears at all. http://mentalfloss.com/article/30195/11-ways-advertisers-make-food-look-delicious
Sorry...Wynterbourne wrote: »Don't make me cry.
Not sure how me not liking the food turned into food photography. If that pizza was taken with the best photography it still wouldn't be my cup of tea. And that's ok, not everything is for everyone.
Well, the main conversation is going around in circles, so a diversion here or there is inevitable.
Well then it must be time for cat gifs...
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Garbage advice:
Don't eat too much garbage, or you may end up resembling this cat.
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I too tried to flounce. But, being an over achiever, I insisted on combining it with a hair flip and my stupid tiara kept sliding off.
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southernoregongrape wrote: »I too tried to flounce. But, being an over achiever, I insisted on combining it with a hair flip and my stupid tiara kept sliding off.
My diamond studded heels got all caught up in my train and I tripped down the stairs I meant to flounce on. Very awkward.4 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Gosh I suck at rage quitting.
I tried to flounce once. It didn't stick.
Me too -- heh!
No one goes anywhere. It's all about ME and I still have maintenance to get through so buckle up people!
Not true. It is all about WE. And I am indeed using we in the royal sense. 3 -
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MontyMuttland wrote: »You both illustrate my point perfectly.
If your average pizza actually was just bread, cheese, veggies then you'd be some way to having a bit of nutrition - but they're not.
Try reading the ingredients list on some pizza packaging, you'll see the list of stuff going in them is somewhat longer. Then read the nutritional information about those pizzas and see just how "healthy" they are.
The home-made pizza does sound a ton better, specially the amount of protein there compared to ready-made ones. But I'll make a stab at two slices being what, two sixths of the pizza maybe?
I've been a fat person remember, fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas. And so do most ordinary people as well. Do you order half pizzas or quarter pizzas in a restaurant? Nope, didn't think so.
So yeah, two-sixths of a pizza for 524 calories ain't bad, but that's knocking on the door of 1600 calories for the whole pizza.
And guess who is eating the whole pizza?
Yep, just about everyone...
I had to stop at this post and answer it before moving on with this thread.
Pizza packaging? Uh, yeah, I rarely eat frozen pizza, I get mine fresh from the pizzeria. Flour for the crust, tomato sauce, cheese, veggies, pineapple (yum), jalapenos, sausage and pepperoni. How is that unhealthy? The only thing about pizza is that it doesn't have enough protein, so I have a huge piece of baked chicken breast that day to round it out.
"Fat people don't eat two slices of pizza, they eat whole pizzas". What world do you live in where "just about everyone" is eating a whole pizza?!? I was obese, and even then I never ate more than three pieces of pizza. Now I generally eat two or two and a half, depending on how it's sliced. I order a large from Pizza Hut, and it feeds me for three meals. I did this the entire time I was losing weight on a 1200 calorie limit. I plan my other meals those days to make sure I get in my nutrients. Personally, I don't think I know ANYBODY that eats a whole pizza by themselves. I sure as heck know that none of my family members do, and I eat pizza with them regularly. They never eat more than two pieces, and usually have a salad with it as well.
Please stop generalizing about what other people do - you are completely wrong in your assumptions. And you know what they say about assuming . . .
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In the interests of science, I'm going to go off and look up some frozen pizza and see what the ingredients lists are. BRB.4
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Yes, very likely. New members will not know what you're thinking of though, nor will we have seen all of those threads even if we did a lot of background reading. So we'd read it differently.lemurcat12 wrote: »The problem is that we are reading it in context, thinking of the threads in which we've given such advice.
I might be wrong that there's some connection between what answers people are given and whether they are confused. But I have seen people who actually are confused - or at least, they're eating what seems like a rather unhealthy diet. Whether that's because they're confused or because they don't care as long as they're losing weight, it's hard to say.Also, you aren't saying that YOU were confused. You are assuming that other people (much more ignorant than you, I guess) might be confused. Maybe that assumption is problematic?
Fwiw, I was confused by what a number of posts (elsewhere on the board) meant. They certainly sounded like it truly made no difference what someone ate, as long as they met their calorie goals.
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kshama2001 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Secondly, can someone tell me which chains across the globe add exactly what to their products (and proven, not hearsay) that is so evil and makes a burger from McDs worse than a burger made at home, all other ingredients being equal.
Until 2012, many fast food chains added 'pink slime' to their burgers. http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/msm.asp
I stopped eating fast food burgers after seeing the ammonia factory in 'Food, Inc.' I am not interested in eating meat that is processed in such a way that it needs ammonia to make it safe. "This is not a health issue," said Bill Marler, a prominent food safety lawyer. "This is an 'I'm grossed out by this' issue."Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Well I think all ingredients not being equal is what makes homemade burgers better. Better ingredients = better taste.
I agree with you in general that homemade burgers are better than fast food burgers. Had a bite of my OH's BK burger due to threads like this and didn't even seem like the same food to me.
However, in the interest of buying humanely raised beef, I have experimented with various brands of hamburger that comes vacuum-sealed and they range from "can only use in enchiladas" to "am going to give the rest of the package to my mother to feed to her dog."
So, I have to drive a little farther to find hamburger that is both humanely raised and freshly ground, which makes a big difference in taste.
And if I want to drive farther and spend more money I will get a burger made from wagyu ground beef. OMG, is this delish!
Boneless lean beef trimmings (i.e. "pink slime") was also used at the same time in ground beef you would buy at the grocery store. Sure, you could also buy fresh ground beef from the butcher, but that's not really an "all other ingredients being equal" kind of comparison.3 -
Yes, very likely. New members will not know what you're thinking of though, nor will we have seen all of those threads even if we did a lot of background reading. So we'd read it differently.lemurcat12 wrote: »The problem is that we are reading it in context, thinking of the threads in which we've given such advice.
I might be wrong that there's some connection between what answers people are given and whether they are confused. But I have seen people who actually are confused - or at least, they're eating what seems like a rather unhealthy diet. Whether that's because they're confused or because they don't care as long as they're losing weight, it's hard to say.Also, you aren't saying that YOU were confused. You are assuming that other people (much more ignorant than you, I guess) might be confused. Maybe that assumption is problematic?
Fwiw, I was confused by what a number of posts (elsewhere on the board) meant. They certainly sounded like it truly made no difference what someone ate, as long as they met their calorie goals.
What? :huh:2 -
Chilled Pizza Express margheritas are pretty low in calories and UK-based supermarket Tesco sells pizzas with carrot mixed into the dough, for kids.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »This is the kind of cat I have:
Pretty cat. Ours is about 14 years old, blind, and overly fond of treats over her expensive cat food. But I figure she is happy even if overweight and the vet says she is healthy.2 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Did you ever get around to this, @dfwesq? Because I would nominate it for a sticky in a heartbeat if you could get something together. Since you're the expert and everything.
No, the post you're quoting isn't visible to me.
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Yes, very likely. New members will not know what you're thinking of though, nor will we have seen all of those threads even if we did a lot of background reading. So we'd read it differently.lemurcat12 wrote: »The problem is that we are reading it in context, thinking of the threads in which we've given such advice.
I might be wrong that there's some connection between what answers people are given and whether they are confused. But I have seen people who actually are confused - or at least, they're eating what seems like a rather unhealthy diet. Whether that's because they're confused or because they don't care as long as they're losing weight, it's hard to say.Also, you aren't saying that YOU were confused. You are assuming that other people (much more ignorant than you, I guess) might be confused. Maybe that assumption is problematic?
Fwiw, I was confused by what a number of posts (elsewhere on the board) meant. They certainly sounded like it truly made no difference what someone ate, as long as they met their calorie goals.
So you looked at people's diaries, saw they were eating mostly junk, and assumed they were doing so because people on the forum say to eat whatever you want and decided it was the forum's fault they eat that way?
For weight loss, it DOES NOT MATTER what you eat, as long as you hit your calorie goal. For satiety and for health, obviously you need to make smart choices and eat enough nutritionally balanced foods.3 -
Back!
For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.
First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g
366 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).
Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g
465 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract
And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g
484 calories per half pizza
Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme
Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.7 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Back!
For full disclosure I am in the UK. I will link to each pizza I look at so you can check I have not doctored anything.
First up, Sainsburys own veggie thin crust:
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/sainsburys-thin---crispy-vegetable-pizza-320g
366 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Pizza Base (Wheat Flour, Water, Rapeseed Oil, Yeast, Salt), Tomato Sauce (Water, Tomato Purée, Cornflour, Sugar, Sunflower Oil, Basil, Salt, White Wine Vinegar, Sundried Tomatoes, Garlic Puree, Garlic Powder, Yeast Extract, Black Pepper, Tomato Paste, Tomato Powder, Cheese Powder (Cows' Milk), Flavouring, Marjoram, Thyme, Oregano, Garlic, Rosemary, Acid: Citric Acid), Mozzarella Cheese (16%) (Cows' Milk), Courgettes (7%), Yellow Peppers (3%), Spinach (3%), Red Onions (3%), Pesto Oil (2.5%) (Rapeseed Oil, Palm Oil, Basil, Sunflower Oil, Garlic Purée, Salt, Black Pepper, Acidity Regulator: Citric Acid).
Next, Dr Oetker pepperoni thin crust, one of the more popular ones I think. Cheap.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/dr-oetker-ristorante-pizza-pepperoni-salame-320g
465 calories per half pizza
Ingredients
Wheat Flour (with Calcium, Iron, Thiamin (B1), Niacin (B3)), Tomato Puree, Pepperoni-Salami (9%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Smoke, Spices, Dextrose, Onion Powder, Garlic Powder, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary)), Mozzarella Cheese (7%), Edam Cheese (7%), Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil), Salami (4%) (Pork, Pork Fat, Salt, Spices, Garlic Powder, Onion Powder, Glucose Syrup, Sucrose, Spice Extracts, Stabiliser (Sodium Nitrite), Antioxidant (Extracts of Rosemary), Flavouring, Smoke, Dextrose), Yeast, Sugar, Salt, Herbs and Spices, Water, Modified Potato Starch, Chilli Powder, Lemon Juice, Potato Starch, Garlic, Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Pepper Extract
And finally, a Goodfella's chicken. I guess this would be deemed one of the fancier frozen pizzas.
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/thin-crust/goodfellas-stonebaked-thin-roast-chicken-pizza-with-italian-style-dressing-365g
484 calories per half pizza
Wheat Flour, Water, Mozzarella (14%) (Milk), Chicken with added Water (13%) (Chicken, Water, Salt, Maize Starch), Tomatoes (9%), Vegetable Oil: Rapeseed, Herb Dressing (2%) (Vegetable Oils: Rapeseed, Palm; Garlic Puree, Parsley, Marjoram, Thyme, Sage, Black Pepper), Cheddar Cheese (1.5%) (Milk), Yeast, Salt, Sugar, Garlic Puree, Starch, Oregano, Basil, Black Pepper, Marjoram, Parsley, Sage, Thyme
Feel free to point out what amongst that is going to cause my untimely death.
Damn. You qualified it with "untimely". I was ready to jump all over you and inform you that you will die if you eat those.12 -
Going back to the original post, I would really love to hear a response to this from some of the people who liked it so much (whether as speaking for newbies or what):People don't want to eat 1 slice of pizza, or a 1/4 of a plate of Loco Rice, or 7 chili cheese fries. They want to have a meal.
Why is this a choice -- some higher cal food or a meal? I still don't know what Loco Rice is, and don't like chili cheese fries, but I'd never just have fries on its own or one slice of pizza. I'd have protein and veg with the fries and salad or veg with the pizza (and probably more pizza, depending). If you are eating just these foods you are not doing a very good job at choosing (unless they ARE, in fact, what you want).
More to the point, as the criticism is "eat what you want within your calories," why would you follow it by eating something you don't want? I don't understand that. Yes, you might make a bad choice or two when starting out (or more), but you learn from that what is satisfying and what is not.
I've told this story before, but I know a woman who really did only eat fast food (she knew it was a bad idea, but did not want to change, but she did want to lose weight -- had about 100 lb to lose). She started by just changing her orders some and lost. As she lost, she got more interested in doing some cooking and expanding her menu and did, and I suspect part of this was needing more filling food (and part of it, I think, was feeling good and letting go to some extent of the "don't tell me what I should be eating" attitude that she was expressing with the fast food). By the end she was still eating more fast food than some would think was a good idea, but a much more balanced, healthful diet overall. And she lost the weight she needed to lose.If you eat the "right amount" of junk food to stay within your calorie limits, you're going to be starving to death and it's going to cause you to eat more.
I am still puzzled about where on MFP people think they are being told to eat all junk food. If you ARE eating all junk food and know you shouldn't be, isn't it easy to change (and isn't that something you WANT to do)? I mean yes, changing habits can be hard and there's lots of help for that, but you know what to do, right? No one is preventing you from having that knowledge or saying to keep eating 100% junk food.
Also, I am curious if people who think this is good advice themselves ate all junk food and thought they should keep doing that? Seems more likely to me that this is a rather uncharitable assumption being made about others, that other people eat 100% junk food and are too silly to figure out other food might add to nutrition and satiety.Eating food that doesn't taste as good as what you want is much better than satisfying a craving and then derailing later because you were so hungry you caved.
This is fascinating to me, since it assumes food that you should be eating doesn't taste so good, food that you want to eat is different and does taste good (and personally I think we have very different tastes). IMO, little tastes as good as salmon, asparagus, and some roasted sweet potato, for example, or lots of other quite nutritionally sound meals (including good pizza). I'd say realizing you can be satisfied and eat delicious meals while on a deficit, that you don't have to eat only boring "diet" food (and yes, that homecooked food and vegetables can be delicious) are important to making dieting easier. There's no conflict in my mind between what I want and a nutritionally sound diet (well, occasionally, and then I make an exception, fit it in, whatever).There are a few people around here who have done their time, lost their weight, and they are in good shape. These people give advice from the "look at me, I lost a ton of weight so I know what I'm doing" stand point, but seem to have forgotten what it was like to ACTUALLY live as a fat person.
I remember perfectly well what it was like to live as a fat person.So when someone tells you you can have junk food, don't listen to them, not because they are lying to you - they aren't, it's true - but because the advice isn't helpful in practice.
So are the people agreeing under the belief that you can NEVER have junk food? Not just you (what you do is your business), but everyone else too, since this post is directed more generally at all of us.6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with adopting healthier habits
Who has said there is something wrong with adopting healthier habits? How is that even related to what OP said.
If I "eat what I want within my calories," what I want might be affected by healthy habits I have or am working on.
I wonder if the people who keep assuming that "eat what you want" = unhealthy realize that it's really quite possible to want to eat a healthful diet. Not to just do so because you think it's necessary for weight loss, but because you want to and like the food.
For you eating what you want may mean a healthy diet, but many who are counting calories to lose weight probably wouldn't be here, if healthy items were their first choice. They certainly aren't mine. I didn't read all the comments, since there are 25 pages, but eating what you want, but staying within calories may not equal healthy either. Processed foods have tons of sodium, which is not great for anyone, definitely not for someone with high blood pressure or heart disease.
It takes time to want to eat healthy things for some people. That could mean limiting or eliminating some foods from your diet completely. That is after all the goal, to want to eat healthy. For some people, it is just not realistic to achieve that, if they just ate whatever they want.
Well, I was fat and I actually ate really healthily. I was over liberal with cooking oils sometimes and portions often. So the advice to reduce portions within my calories is totally applicable.
This assumption that fat people don't like healthy food is as ridiculous as the assertion those who advise of moderation never make any mention of nutrition ever.
Great for you to already make healthy choices and only having to worry about portion control. You are an exception to the rule. It is unfortunate that you don't recognize that others may have to learn to make healthy choices as well as portion control. I think it is ridiculous to assume that everyone struggling with weight really like healthy food, just because you did. I don't understand the purpose of debating the merit in making healthy choices or what constitutes healthy choices, since that is why many choose to come to MFP in the first place. For some making healthy choices is easy, for others it is a huge undertaking and may require changing the way they approach food. So for the latter group, eating what they want when they want, might not be the best advice.
I don't think anyone is debating the merit of making healthy choices...I'd say the vast majority of us make healthy choices and have had to make changes to our diets.
That said, I've been here 4.5 years roughly...I've never seen anyone go the all or nothing route and have long term success...they're usually "on and off the wagon" and make themselves miserable and ultimately do nothing in the end...
I think it's also pretty interesting that the vast majority of people posting here about including things in moderation and taking a bit more of a relaxed dietary approach also happen to be long term veterans of the site and have had a lot of success both in losing weight and maintaining weight long term...but yeah, we don't know what the hell we're talking about and just give *kitten* advice.
The all or nothing approach is often part of that same pseudo-religious take on eating that defines foods as either "good" or "bad" and also defines them as "treats" or "punishments." And since "healthy" foods are also "punishments" and the "bad" foods are rewards, you wind up with a "conflicted Catholic in the 50s" mentality about eating.
The very fact that someone could look at a food diary full of "healthy" food and think that it means that people aren't eating "what they want, when they want it" illustrates this.
If you look at my food diary you'll see that I've had several types of cookie as an after-dinner treat over the past week. I made a pie for Pi Day. There was a big wedge of brie with dinner this weekend, and I had THREE OREOS at coffee hour after church. Look I fit "junk" fit into my plan!
During the same time, I also ate several huge servings of cabbage, dinner last Friday was a bowl of vegan cauliflower soup, Sunday dinner was chicken breasts, baked sweet potatoes, and broccoli. Does that mean that I don't eat "What I want?" No, it just means that I LIKE those things too, I know they're good for me and satisfying, and I can fit both them AND the pie into my calorie budget.
If you think that the healthy things in my diary mean I'm not eating what I want? That means you think that NO ONE would ever eat healthy things voluntarily. And what kind of nonsense is that? That's nonsense that leads to falling off the wagon, binging, and yo-yo dieting.13 -
I went to the Google for "Loco Rice" and got nothing. It makes me think of Pollo Loco, which is Mexican chicken & rice, which can have a lot of gooey cheesiness, so maybe it's something like that?0
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Yes, very likely. New members will not know what you're thinking of though, nor will we have seen all of those threads even if we did a lot of background reading. So we'd read it differently.lemurcat12 wrote: »The problem is that we are reading it in context, thinking of the threads in which we've given such advice.
You are misunderstanding. You are making some assumptions based on (false) claims made by OP. (BTW, I did a detailed response just now and would love your response to it.)
I am talking about the ACTUAL answers in threads such as "can I eat some bad foods and still lose weight" or "hypothetically, could I eat ANYTHING and lose if I was within my calories" or the like. Those threads NEVER lack the context that you keep claiming is not given, namely that of course food choice matters for nutrition and satiety. (I may tattoo this on my forehead before this thread is over!)Also, you aren't saying that YOU were confused. You are assuming that other people (much more ignorant than you, I guess) might be confused. Maybe that assumption is problematic?
I might be wrong that there's some connection between what answers people are given and whether they are confused.[/quote]
So who has been given these confusing answers? Did you ask a question about what you could eat and get an answer that left you confused? Or, again, are you assuming that fat people are reading answers and thinking "yay, only McD's fries, then." Because honestly that last strikes me as pretty offensive and inaccurate (speaking as a former fat person who was not stupid and understood nutrition).But I have seen people who actually are confused - or at least, they're eating what seems like a rather unhealthy diet. Whether that's because they're confused or because they don't care as long as they're losing weight, it's hard to say.
Seen them where? Maybe link a thread or, you know, post in it and un-confuse them. That's what I would do, not start a thread about how everyone else supposedly gives garbage advice.Fwiw, I was confused by what a number of posts (elsewhere on the board) meant. They certainly sounded like it truly made no difference what someone ate, as long as they met their calorie goals.
Again, if you have a TDEE of 2100 and eat 1600 of whatever, you will lose weight. That is just a fact, and it's useful to understand. Does that mean that I think it doesn't matter what you eat or that you are equally likely to stick to your 1600, no matter what you eat? No. If this is confusing to you, I'm really not sure why but would love to answer questions about it (as I would if this were a thread in which I was giving advice). If anything, I think my weakness is over-explaining -- just read me in any of the sugar threads, LOL.10
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