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I don't support the fat acceptance/plus size movement.
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LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
Meh. Super fit people have falls, accidents, and injuries resulting from their healthy activities that result in countless doctor visits, surgeries and procedures, rehabilitation, and sometimes hospitalization. My job allows me to witness this sort of thing regularly. All of that also raises rates. If you choose to share a health insurance plan, you share it with all.
And it doesn't require six people to risk back injury to pick up a fit person and put them on a stretcher.16 -
I used the body(fat I guess) positivity/acceptance movement to help with my anxiety and depression. I was 260+ pounds and too ashamed to go outside and exercise. I'd want to walk and do things, but the thought that people would see me and judge me was too much.
It was only through finding positive ideas/motivation through that movement that I could find courage and acceptance within myself to change. I learned to love who I was and understand that I wanted to be someone healthier.
There's several sides to this body/fat positivity thing.
And yes, one of them is being okay with being larger and just accepting who you are.
Everyone should be allowed to feel comfortable in their skin healthy or not. (I do have issue with rabid members on all side forcing their views on others though.)
But the other part is inspiring and supporting people regardless and facilitating change in those who want it.
I'm down to 170 pounds now. Got a long way to go still.
But it definitely wouldn't have started if I didn't learn to love who I was for what I was at the time.
Like many things in life it is multi-faceted and what comes from it depends on the individual.30 -
I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...
"Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.
It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.24 -
I just think its a way for the medical industry to just cash in on peoples un-healthy life styles while at the same time justifying a reason for someone not to care about them selfs or get "fit" because they should be "perfect" the way they are.
Although good intentioned it is, and I do believe it is good to love yourself...but you should have loved yourself enough to make your only body you have, healthy...10 -
misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
idk, I know of some "obese" athletes that would disagree- some can out-run me. I think either stance is over-simplified.
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jpoehls9025 wrote: »I just think its a way for the medical industry to just cash in on peoples un-healthy life styles while at the same time justifying a reason for someone not to care about them selfs or get "fit" because they should be "perfect" the way they are.
Although good intentioned it is, and I do believe it is good to love yourself...but you should have loved yourself enough to make your only body you have, healthy...
Agree except I would think the fashion industry is the one trying to cash in.2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »jpoehls9025 wrote: »I just think its a way for the medical industry to just cash in on peoples un-healthy life styles while at the same time justifying a reason for someone not to care about them selfs or get "fit" because they should be "perfect" the way they are.
Although good intentioned it is, and I do believe it is good to love yourself...but you should have loved yourself enough to make your only body you have, healthy...
Agree except I would think the fashion industry is the one trying to cash in.
Yeah they are both big empires that strive to make money... its kinda ironic fashion and medical industry is kinda like yin yang in some ways1 -
When you live in a country with socialized medicine it affects your pocketbook.enterdanger wrote: »To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.
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If you have group insurance, which almost everyone does, it still affects you.JohnnyPenso wrote: »
When you live in a country with socialized medicine it affects your pocketbook.enterdanger wrote: »To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »
If you have group insurance, which almost everyone does, it still affects you.JohnnyPenso wrote: »
When you live in a country with socialized medicine it affects your pocketbook.enterdanger wrote: »To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.
And where your tax dollars support many that don't have group or purchase their own insurance.
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Congratulations, you're one of the smart people who realizes the fat acceptance movement is BS and promotes a unhealthy lifestyle.8
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »
If you have group insurance, which almost everyone does, it still affects you.JohnnyPenso wrote: »
When you live in a country with socialized medicine it affects your pocketbook.enterdanger wrote: »To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.
And yet people love socialist policies, even though those policies make them loathe other people. Go figure.13 -
They don't make me loathe anyone.10
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I believe we are commonly misplacing beautiful for both healthy and unhealthy. EVERY woman deserves to feel beautiful regardless of their size. We can promote self love and telling an overweight person they are beautiful without promoting an unhealthy lifestyle if we can wrap our heads around the fact that weight loss is not a road to increased beauty. The same goes for skinny shaming it doesn't matter if someone is extremely thin or has an eating disorder she is still beautiful. Media has us believing that these two concepts are one in the same. We are programmed to believe this because "health and beauty sections" "health and beauty magazines" etc. Its been lumped into the same category. Health is a depiction of how your body functions.
Fitness and health are not the same thing. You can be healthy without being fit and you can be fit to a point where it begins to negatively impact your healthy. Fitness and body weight CONTRIBUTE to health but do not always/exclusively define it. For example I have been medically classified as obease and run a 5k at a 10 minute mile pace. I was reasonably fit. I was not necessarily cardiovascularly healthy as far as my heart being able to effectively pump blood to all of my body tissue correctly. There are TONS of weightlifters and bodybuilders out there who technically are medically overweight or obease despite having some extreme low body fat percentage because their weight by height ratio is in a range that makes it more difficult for the heart to effectively pump blood to fuel all the tissue. In a happy balance being fit compliments being healthy. Consequently beauty being a very fickle thing that means different things to different people is much less easy to pin down. The woman circulating Facebook trying to gain 14lbs a month may have a beautiful caring personality. A woman who wears a size 14-16-18 may have beautiful eyes that could melt your soul. A woman who struggles to keep her weight above 100lbs may have the most incredible hair anyone has ever seen. STOP LUMPING HEALTH BEAUTY AND FITNESS ALL INTO ONE BUBBLE. They compliment each other but they are not dependent on each other.12 -
wsandy8512 wrote: »I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...
"Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.
It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. A lot of their campaign gets turned around into insulting smaller women to elevate themselves.8 -
They called you a "shallow bully"? They should look in the mirror and say that to themselves.
Can't make everyone happy. Swipe them off your shoulder and be glad you are not part of their clique.0 -
LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
Meh. Super fit people have falls, accidents, and injuries resulting from their healthy activities that result in countless doctor visits, surgeries and procedures, rehabilitation, and sometimes hospitalization. My job allows me to witness this sort of thing regularly. All of that also raises rates. If you choose to share a health insurance plan, you share it with all.
I don't chose to share a health insurance. It's obligatory where I live. If you can't prove you have a health insurance (or forget to submit the proof to the proper government office), they issue a health insurance police in your name that you pay, regardless of whether you want it or not. So I pay upwards of 400$ each month and I'm not given a choice about it. Paying that amount, does not mean I get every medical intervention for free. I still pay up to a deductible and once that deductible is reach I keep on paying 10%. That concerns only illnesses.
Injuries due to accident are payed for by a different insurance and covered to 100%. So my monthly payment doesn't even go to cover that. That's a different payment plan (deducted from your salary as a percentage of what you earn).
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happysherri wrote: »...Recently I have come across people who have food sensitivities and celiac disease and it's hard for them to lose weight...
Is it, though? It's still just a matter of calories in, calories out.
Before I was diagnosed and figured out that gluten was making me sick, I was actually losing too much weight, because eating would often lead to me puking out both ends. (Sorry, TMI.) Blaming your weight on food sensitivities or celiac seems so bizarre to me. The treatment is simply avoiding the stuff that makes you sick. Why would eliminating gluten make you fat? It certainly didn't make me fat - before or after I stopped eating it. CICO.6 -
jillybeansalad wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
idk, I know of some "obese" athletes that would disagree- some can out-run me. I think either stance is over-simplified.
LOL. Exceptions to the BMI rules are made for lean athletes (and others) with higher muscle mass. They aren't really considered medically "obese" and don't really compare to the general, mostly-sedentary obese population.5 -
Where do you live Ladyrva? Proof of health insurance is now obligatory in your country, how long has that been put into place? Just interested.ladyreva78 wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
Meh. Super fit people have falls, accidents, and injuries resulting from their healthy activities that result in countless doctor visits, surgeries and procedures, rehabilitation, and sometimes hospitalization. My job allows me to witness this sort of thing regularly. All of that also raises rates. If you choose to share a health insurance plan, you share it with all.
I don't chose to share a health insurance. It's obligatory where I live. If you can't prove you have a health insurance (or forget to submit the proof to the proper government office), they issue a health insurance police in your name that you pay, regardless of whether you want it or not. So I pay upwards of 400$ each month and I'm not given a choice about it. Paying that amount, does not mean I get every medical intervention for free. I still pay up to a deductible and once that deductible is reach I keep on paying 10%. That concerns only illnesses.
Injuries due to accident are payed for by a different insurance and covered to 100%. So my monthly payment doesn't even go to cover that. That's a different payment plan (deducted from your salary as a percentage of what you earn).
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Where do you live Ladyrva? Proof of health insurance is now obligatory in your country, how long has that been put into place? Just interested.ladyreva78 wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
Meh. Super fit people have falls, accidents, and injuries resulting from their healthy activities that result in countless doctor visits, surgeries and procedures, rehabilitation, and sometimes hospitalization. My job allows me to witness this sort of thing regularly. All of that also raises rates. If you choose to share a health insurance plan, you share it with all.
I don't chose to share a health insurance. It's obligatory where I live. If you can't prove you have a health insurance (or forget to submit the proof to the proper government office), they issue a health insurance police in your name that you pay, regardless of whether you want it or not. So I pay upwards of 400$ each month and I'm not given a choice about it. Paying that amount, does not mean I get every medical intervention for free. I still pay up to a deductible and once that deductible is reach I keep on paying 10%. That concerns only illnesses.
Injuries due to accident are payed for by a different insurance and covered to 100%. So my monthly payment doesn't even go to cover that. That's a different payment plan (deducted from your salary as a percentage of what you earn).
Switzerland.
It's been like that for as long as I've been an adult and in charge of paying my own health insurance (I'm 35), so can't really say how long. Not sure how my mom's illness when she was 6 was paid for (my grandparents were dirt poor and could never have afforded a 3 months hospital stay or the follow up treatment for 2 years after). But I think the system has been in place for several decades - probably since long before my birth.
So the moment you're 18, you get served with that nice little bill every month. Before that your parents are responsible for paying.
We still have an excellent system but it's not a system we can really afford anymore (our insurances premiums tend to go up by a double digit percentage on a nearly yearly basis. Last year it went up by a mere 6% and we considered ourselves lucky...). Long term, the added workload from obesity related illnesses, an ever aging population, the better survivability of illnesses such as cancer, and a growing tendency to run to the doctor for every damned cold is going to bankrupt either the system or the people paying for it.
Reason why I think obesity should be tackled much more aggressively and why I don't find 'fat-acceptance' acceptable in the long term. Yes, someone might be healthy and obese, but it doesn't stay that way forever and the risk of developing conditions just starts to go up and up. I was in the situation where my obesity was making me ill (pre-diabetes, NAFLD, ...) and I chose to do something about that instead of simply treating the symptoms with medications. I wish I had done something much sooner as some of the damage done is permanent (I will probably need knee replacements sooner or later, my skin will never fully recover, and I will never drink another glass of wine because of the risks to my liver - no matter how amazing an organ it is and how much crap it will forgive and forget).
I'm much happier now (BMI 28 and dropping). I can move around much more freely now and my current 10 year prognosis doesn't include divorcing from my liver and knee replacements.2 -
Gimsteinn1 wrote: »I don't agree with you. You can be fat and healthy. Actually, the woman who got me into the fit lifestyle can run for miles, she can do splits, pull ups and moves like a ballerina... yet she's very overweight but still more fit than I am and super healthy.
But promoting an unhealthy lifestyle with bad food choices and no exercise, now that's a whole different thing.
Being fat doesn't equal being unhealthy or unfit
Being skinny doesn't equal being healthy or fit
You can be skinny but very unhealthy
You can be fat and unhealthy
But you can also be skinny + fit and healthy and you can be fat + fit and healthy.
I think you're just starting your fitness journey and that you've got lot's to learn.
No. statistically long term obese individuals have poorer health outcomes than those of normal or slightly overweight weight on the BMI scale.
You can also be 90 years old, a smoker for 70+ years and not have smoking related health issues. Not likely though.6 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Gimsteinn1 wrote: »I don't agree with you. You can be fat and healthy. Actually, the woman who got me into the fit lifestyle can run for miles, she can do splits, pull ups and moves like a ballerina... yet she's very overweight but still more fit than I am and super healthy.
But promoting an unhealthy lifestyle with bad food choices and no exercise, now that's a whole different thing.
Being fat doesn't equal being unhealthy or unfit
Being skinny doesn't equal being healthy or fit
You can be skinny but very unhealthy
You can be fat and unhealthy
But you can also be skinny + fit and healthy and you can be fat + fit and healthy.
I think you're just starting your fitness journey and that you've got lot's to learn.
No. statistically long term obese individuals have poorer health outcomes than those of normal or slightly overweight weight on the BMI scale.
You can also be 90 years old, a smoker for 70+ years and not have smoking related health issues. Not likely though.
Statistics aren't individuals.9 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Gimsteinn1 wrote: »I don't agree with you. You can be fat and healthy. Actually, the woman who got me into the fit lifestyle can run for miles, she can do splits, pull ups and moves like a ballerina... yet she's very overweight but still more fit than I am and super healthy.
But promoting an unhealthy lifestyle with bad food choices and no exercise, now that's a whole different thing.
Being fat doesn't equal being unhealthy or unfit
Being skinny doesn't equal being healthy or fit
You can be skinny but very unhealthy
You can be fat and unhealthy
But you can also be skinny + fit and healthy and you can be fat + fit and healthy.
I think you're just starting your fitness journey and that you've got lot's to learn.
No. statistically long term obese individuals have poorer health outcomes than those of normal or slightly overweight weight on the BMI scale.
You can also be 90 years old, a smoker for 70+ years and not have smoking related health issues. Not likely though.
Statistics aren't individuals.
That's true. Personally though I'd individually want to be on the side where statistically I'd have a better chance for improved outcomes.8 -
I think that people should be treated kindly and respectfully, but there is a fine line between being encouraging and enabling. Self-destruction and the descent into an impaired lifestyle should not be encouraged or celebrated.12
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Health aside, the world is a judgemental place whether people want to believe it or not. By no means do I agree that it's right but that's how it is!3
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Insurance companies cannot be altruistic. They are businesses that have to be able to sustain themselves and continue to be viable enterprises now and for the long term.
I also find it interesting that most talk about improving the cost of health care doesn't actually talk about the cost of health care, but the cost (and really only the direct cost to the consumer) of insurance, which is a very different animal.7 -
I could not have lost the weight that I did (55 pounds) until I learned to love my fat body as it was and used the confidence I found there to make the changes that I wanted to make. I found that confidence through the body positive movement. Fortunately, the fat acceptance or body positive movements don't require the support of anyone here to continue to do good for the people they do help.22
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Worry about yourself. Problem solved.13
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I didn't start losing weight until I loved myself as I was.
If you don't like it or support it, cool. That's you. I don't really care. I don't know why you do, either.9
This discussion has been closed.
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