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I don't support the fat acceptance/plus size movement.
Replies
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Happiness is not a number on a scale. You can be happy at any weight. Not everyone wants to be small, or muscular, or skinny, or big, or curvy, or whatever. Everyone is different, everyone has different opinions and I don't make fun of or force my opinion on others. I also think this movement is more about some who got sick of being bullied and made fun of just because of their size. I do believe good health would be the best option, of course, however what that looks like to one may not be the same for another.
Recently I have come across people who have food sensitivities and celiac disease and it's hard for them to lose weight. I never even had allergies so, of course, it's hard to look at things from their point of view. But it's opened my eyes.11 -
HAs anyone ever read about the intense flaming the blogger The Sugar Monster got when she posted that she was having WLS?? She was eviscerated by the Fat Acceptance community that had hitherto supported her. Some of the comments were wishing she would die on the op table, etc.
So yes, I take umbrage at the insane crabs-in-a-bucket behaviour that comes out of some of the Fat Acceptance movement. Some of the most vocal FA purporters get personally on my nerves (see: Virgie Tovar).
However... people just being happy in their own skin doesn't bother me.
I prefer Body Positivity to Fat Positivity, to be honest.17 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
It's an internet thing. I've only run into them by seeking them out on the internet after hearing about them here. I think if you frequent certain segments of the internet they may seem more popular than they are (maybe also if you watch some TV show that I forget the name of "Fat and Happy" or some such). I've seen way more anti them than pro them -- blogs that slam some HAES person who does seem delusional, for example. It's kind of like how I never knew Freelee and all her weird eat 87 bananas a day friends were popular until I came here, but if you hang out in certain parts of YouTube you think everyone is a fruitarian and thinks that eating only fruit (and crazy calories) is the ideal.
So I will refer back to my post early in this thread:lemurcat12 wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I don't support the plus size or fat acceptance movement, because it promotes unhealthiness.
These threads always seem to become a debate about what the fat acceptance people claim, in part because many of us are not that familiar with them, in part because we mix them up with body positive or "love yourself" or who knows what groups/people or the anti diet people (who IME aren't always about not losing weight).
To the extent we are referring to people who say that obesity is not a health risk, then of course they are wrong.
I don't find many people who actually think obesity is not a health risk unless I seek them out online, but this could be geographic or generational, who knows.3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese?
Because when someone is obese, it doesn't just affect them. It affects the doctors, nurses, EMTs, firefighters and physical therapists who have to be able to lift and carry other people. It means career ending back injuries for some of these professionals, and increased casualties in an emergency because obese people with poor mobility have clogged fire escapes and emergency exits. Treating obesity induced disease costs our healthcare system millions of dollars a year. Insulin for Type 1 diabetics has become more expensive as the demand for insulin is increased by those who have obesity induced and completely preventable Type 2 diabetes. Medical equipment, operating rooms, gurneys, hospital beds, ambulances all have to be made bigger and stronger to accommodate the obese. It affects funeral homes when an obese person has to be buried. It results in increased fuel expenditures in everything from personal vehicles to airplanes, which means more carbon emissions. It affects the people who have to sit next to them on public transportation like trains and airplanes who now suddenly cannot use the entire seat that they paid for - because someone else is taking up half of it. It means that vehicles that have to be designed to keep obese people safer in an accident may end up being more dangerous to those who aren't obese. It means that clothing sizes shift over time and that I can't find things that fit because what used to be a large is now a small and what was a small would have to be a size XXS.
When someone is obese it doesn't just affect them. It affects all of us in a lot of ways.
Lots of things affect lots of people indirectly, it still doesn't change the fact that a person's weight and the level of happiness attached to it is their business. You absolutely have the right to be annoyed and say something, but they have a right to not care about your opinion and tell you where you may put it. If a person doesn't like the response they're receiving about a subject, they may want to reconsider their approach, especially if it happens often.11 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
Meh. Super fit people have falls, accidents, and injuries resulting from their healthy activities that result in countless doctor visits, surgeries and procedures, rehabilitation, and sometimes hospitalization. My job allows me to witness this sort of thing regularly. All of that also raises rates. If you choose to share a health insurance plan, you share it with all.19 -
I think this article sums it up pretty well:
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/35746/1/how-body-positivity-lost-its-true-and-radical-meaning
This discussion is turning a lot on whether to not it is possible to be overweight and healthy, but as she points out here"
“Health has become the stick with which to beat fat people with, and the benchmark for whether body positivity should include someone.”
I think the point is that the body positivity movement rejects the notion that society has the right to judge and reject people based on appearances. I saw one commenter say something to the effect of "but who pays for it?" So? If that's your argument then shouldn't we also treat smokers, extreme mountain climbers, and people who use tanning beds the same way? We all want to be healthy or stronger or thinner or we wouldn't be here, but we don't have the right to judge another person and their choices based on how they look. That's what body positivity means to me. As she also points out, though we cite health to shame fat people, if health really mattered to us so much as a society, we wouldn't be making constant cuts to it.
Anyway, I want to be thinner and healthier, but I also want to do it for me, and not because society tells me I have to.18 -
mommarnurse wrote: »misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
I wouldn't say that. It is possible to be fat and in good health but it is statistically less likely than being at an appropriate weight and healthy - it's playing the odds.
Movements tend to be defined by their leaders and / or loudest voices. The big problem with much "social justice" type activism these days is the militancy of the parts of them which gets the most airtime and in my opinion is a huge turn off for all but the true believers. Fat acceptance / body positivity seems to have fallen into that trap which is a shame as think that with a more reasonable approach it could do a fair amount of good and lessen prejudicial attitudes which conflate weight and moral virtue and human worth.
It is possible to be fat and healthy for a short period of time. Prolonged obesity is nearly guaranteed to cause a multitude of chronic diseases. It's like saying that wearing a seatbelt isn't 100% going to protect you. It's not much of a debate in that regard.
So therefore, the debate isn't about if it's healthy to be fat. It's if it's socially acceptable to embrace it. As a public health issue (crisis, actually) we are in no place to embrace it. However, it is also true that being obese doesn't make anyone any less worthy or human than someone of a healthy weight. The same can be said about someone who smokes.
I'm healthier now at 33.5 than I was at 22. I'm currently trying to get back down to 30. But I see no significant health benefit to getting beyond that.
I know that everyone is different, but using terms like "guaranteed" isn't productive.1 -
When I graduated from high school in 1971, I applied for a job at a major communications company. I was required to see the company nurse and my being hired was dependent upon my agreeing to lose 15 lbs. She said my weight was a liability and would cost the company more in health insurance coverage. Here I am years later - high blood pressure medication, aching knees and back - fighting the battle of the bulge; a big, big bulge. I must take responsibility for how I got here and make the changes necessary to have a healthy life. When I complete this journey I will be no better or worse than anyone else. I will never judge. I've been there, I am there, and one never knows where the future will take us.1
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To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.15
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LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »Live and let live. Or let people die from choices they make. We're talking about grown consenting adults who choose to be obese? Im not understanding why people care so deeply.
Who pays for their life long medical treatment and meds?
If you live in Europe, as I do, then we have National Health Services. Our taxes are pooled in each country and we receive (more or less) free at the point of delivery health care from cradle to grave.
Statistically speaking for the population as a whole, if someone becomes obese or say chooses to smoke, they'll need a lot more expensive medical treatment throughout their lives than a person who works out and eats sensibly.
So if say 40 or 50% of the population becomes morbidly obese and that ticking time bomb of medical expenses threats to bring down the whole Health Care System should I still say it's their choice nothing to do with me?
Compound this with many people then ending up on disability benefits rather than working and it starts to become a bit of a pickle.
All of that said I have to say the only place I ever heard about a fat acceptance movement was on this site. Is it a new thing?
Meh. Super fit people have falls, accidents, and injuries resulting from their healthy activities that result in countless doctor visits, surgeries and procedures, rehabilitation, and sometimes hospitalization. My job allows me to witness this sort of thing regularly. All of that also raises rates. If you choose to share a health insurance plan, you share it with all.
And it doesn't require six people to risk back injury to pick up a fit person and put them on a stretcher.16 -
I used the body(fat I guess) positivity/acceptance movement to help with my anxiety and depression. I was 260+ pounds and too ashamed to go outside and exercise. I'd want to walk and do things, but the thought that people would see me and judge me was too much.
It was only through finding positive ideas/motivation through that movement that I could find courage and acceptance within myself to change. I learned to love who I was and understand that I wanted to be someone healthier.
There's several sides to this body/fat positivity thing.
And yes, one of them is being okay with being larger and just accepting who you are.
Everyone should be allowed to feel comfortable in their skin healthy or not. (I do have issue with rabid members on all side forcing their views on others though.)
But the other part is inspiring and supporting people regardless and facilitating change in those who want it.
I'm down to 170 pounds now. Got a long way to go still.
But it definitely wouldn't have started if I didn't learn to love who I was for what I was at the time.
Like many things in life it is multi-faceted and what comes from it depends on the individual.30 -
I think the basic message of the movement is great, "love yourself", but where it's heading lately is what object to...
"Real women have curves", "Real men prefer meat, not bones", "Why don't they show a 'real' woman in that bathing suit (when the model isn't heavy)", etc.
It's turned from a loving yourself regardless of overweight/obese campaign, to bashing women of normal and healthy weights. "Real" women come in all shapes and sizes, period.24 -
I just think its a way for the medical industry to just cash in on peoples un-healthy life styles while at the same time justifying a reason for someone not to care about them selfs or get "fit" because they should be "perfect" the way they are.
Although good intentioned it is, and I do believe it is good to love yourself...but you should have loved yourself enough to make your only body you have, healthy...10 -
misshoneyz2dab wrote: »I have heard a lot of the supporters saying that you can be fat and healthy at the same time-which is absolute nonsense!
idk, I know of some "obese" athletes that would disagree- some can out-run me. I think either stance is over-simplified.
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jpoehls9025 wrote: »I just think its a way for the medical industry to just cash in on peoples un-healthy life styles while at the same time justifying a reason for someone not to care about them selfs or get "fit" because they should be "perfect" the way they are.
Although good intentioned it is, and I do believe it is good to love yourself...but you should have loved yourself enough to make your only body you have, healthy...
Agree except I would think the fashion industry is the one trying to cash in.2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »jpoehls9025 wrote: »I just think its a way for the medical industry to just cash in on peoples un-healthy life styles while at the same time justifying a reason for someone not to care about them selfs or get "fit" because they should be "perfect" the way they are.
Although good intentioned it is, and I do believe it is good to love yourself...but you should have loved yourself enough to make your only body you have, healthy...
Agree except I would think the fashion industry is the one trying to cash in.
Yeah they are both big empires that strive to make money... its kinda ironic fashion and medical industry is kinda like yin yang in some ways1 -
When you live in a country with socialized medicine it affects your pocketbook.enterdanger wrote: »To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.
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If you have group insurance, which almost everyone does, it still affects you.JohnnyPenso wrote: »
When you live in a country with socialized medicine it affects your pocketbook.enterdanger wrote: »To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »
If you have group insurance, which almost everyone does, it still affects you.JohnnyPenso wrote: »
When you live in a country with socialized medicine it affects your pocketbook.enterdanger wrote: »To be honest, I don't understand how this is even a "movement." I could give a rat's *kitten* about how fat anyone is besides myself.
And where your tax dollars support many that don't have group or purchase their own insurance.
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