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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
Statistically most put the weight back on regardless of method.
And I have never seen an entire thread, ever, in the two years I have been here, where there 50 replies to a thread and all 50 just state eat what you want in your calories with no further mention of making sure it's wide and varied with an eye on macros and micros.
So it's a non-argument. Nobody is reckless because that's never the advice given out.15 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
Even if someone did decide to fill their entire calorie count with low quality foods (according to your definition), they would still be better off if they learned how to match their intake to the number of calories that they actually need to maintain a healthy body weight. Even if they decide not to count calories forever, they could take learnings about portion size and the general calorie count in various types of food and apply them to their post-calorie counting life.
This is also completely ignoring that many people (at least on this website) who begin counting calories in the context of their typical diet make minor or even major changes as they progress in order to eat more volume, feel fuller longer, etc.
When I began counting calories, I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to stop eating anything. But still, over the months, without making deliberate decisions to do so, I began adding new foods and drastically limiting my consumption of others to make it easier to hit my goals daily.10 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
and I want to know who this mythical person is that advocates this? I have been on this site for a number of years and I have never seen anyone say "disregard nutrients, and eat cookies, and just be in a calorie deficit, and that is OK"..
Every single piece of advice about a calorie deficit goes like this..
calorie deficit for weight loss
micro/macros/structured lifting for body comp goals
Eat the foods you like within your deficit but make sure that you get adequate nutrition and keep protein high..
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janejellyroll wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
Even if someone did decide to fill their entire calorie count with low quality foods (according to your definition), they would still be better off if they learned how to match their intake to the number of calories that they actually need to maintain a healthy body weight. Even if they decide not to count calories forever, they could take learnings about portion size and the general calorie count in various types of food and apply them to their post-calorie counting life.
This is also completely ignoring that many people (at least on this website) who begin counting calories in the context of their typical diet make minor or even major changes as they progress in order to eat more volume, feel fuller longer, etc.
When I began counting calories, I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to stop eating anything. But still, over the months, without making deliberate decisions to do so, I began adding new foods and drastically limiting my consumption of others to make it easier to hit my goals daily.
^^^ I agree. The advice to "eat what you want as long as it fits your calories" is deceptively simple: the devil is definitely in the details. It is in fact, devilishly hard to fit a 500 calorie apple fritter into a 1200 calorie diet, and most people probably don't have to try to do this more than once or twice, because when you do, you either have to go hungry or suffer the disappointment of blowing your goals out of the water. You quickly learn to either not eat the fritter, or expand your activity so you can occasionally fit a fritter into your day. (Ask me how I know this).
Perhaps it is better stated to "eat what you want as long as it fits your calorie/macro/micro goals" but the basic advice to fit things into your calorie box is not off track.10 -
Wait. Apple fritters are 500 calories? :wah:4
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RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
If you specifically separate the "eat what you want in your calories" approach from "nutrient dense diet with treats" one would wonder what you believe "eat what you want" entails.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »Wait. Apple fritters are 500 calories? :wah:
Actually a mere 420 on the Dunkin Donuts site. So we're good.
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stevencloser wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
If you specifically separate the "eat what you want in your calories" approach from "nutrient dense diet with treats" one would wonder what you believe "eat what you want" entails.
Okay thanks Jeff0 -
Also. a lot of times the "eat what you want" advice is directed toward a poster who is failing because they are trying to restrict calories by switching to eating "healthy" food that they're not used to eating and don't really like. Letting people know they can continue eating what they're used to in smaller quantities is useful information when people think the only way to lose weight is to put themselves on a restrictive diet that will inevitably lead to binging and a feeling of hopelessness.13
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You're welcome, Gary.3
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RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
So, while you acknowledge that's not what anyone is advocating for, eating nothing but junk all day, but as @lemurcat12 pointed out above, your assumption is that there are people who will interprete a simple statement like "eat what you want within your calories" (which by the way is almost always preceded by the question - can I eat a cookie and still lose weight?) as a suggestion to just go and eat nothing but poor quality foods. Like @lemurcat12 said, I think it is insulting to presume that this is what people want to do, or that they don't even have the basic knowledge of nutrition that is taught in preschool, that it is important to eat healthy foods.
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WinoGelato wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
So, while you acknowledge that's not what anyone is advocating for, eating nothing but junk all day, but as @lemurcat12 pointed out above, your assumption is that there are people who will interprete a simple statement like "eat what you want within your calories" (which by the way is almost always preceded by the question - can I eat a cookie and still lose weight?) as a suggestion to just go and eat nothing but poor quality foods. Like @lemurcat12 said, I think it is insulting to presume that this is what people want to do, or that they don't even have the basic knowledge of nutrition that is taught in preschool, that it is important to eat healthy foods.
When you consistently meet with people that actually eat with no regard to the effect it's having on their bodies that are coming in to change and learn because they have absolutely no understanding about nutrition at all, it's not really insulting but the unfortunate truth....4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
Even if someone did decide to fill their entire calorie count with low quality foods (according to your definition), they would still be better off if they learned how to match their intake to the number of calories that they actually need to maintain a healthy body weight. Even if they decide not to count calories forever, they could take learnings about portion size and the general calorie count in various types of food and apply them to their post-calorie counting life.
This is also completely ignoring that many people (at least on this website) who begin counting calories in the context of their typical diet make minor or even major changes as they progress in order to eat more volume, feel fuller longer, etc.
When I began counting calories, I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to stop eating anything. But still, over the months, without making deliberate decisions to do so, I began adding new foods and drastically limiting my consumption of others to make it easier to hit my goals daily.
I have had the same experience myself during this whole process. I am making choices of what I consider "worth" splurging calories on now that I am more knowledgeable about calories and my energy requirements. Alcohol is an example of this for me- I have cut a lot of it out of my diet because it isn't worth the calories (most of the time, not all
) but someone else wants to have some beer or wine with dinner regularly and they make adjustments for their lifestyle.
Overall, I am way healthier now that I am making the choice to include healthier foods that I like rather than feeling guilty/deprived/ashamed for eating/not eating specific foods. Sure, it is a learning process but it has been a much more organic change that feels more sustainable to me.3 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
So, while you acknowledge that's not what anyone is advocating for, eating nothing but junk all day, but as @lemurcat12 pointed out above, your assumption is that there are people who will interprete a simple statement like "eat what you want within your calories" (which by the way is almost always preceded by the question - can I eat a cookie and still lose weight?) as a suggestion to just go and eat nothing but poor quality foods. Like @lemurcat12 said, I think it is insulting to presume that this is what people want to do, or that they don't even have the basic knowledge of nutrition that is taught in preschool, that it is important to eat healthy foods.
When you consistently meet with people that actually eat with no regard to the effect it's having on their bodies that are coming in to change and learn because they have absolutely no understanding about nutrition at all, it's not really insulting but the unfortunate truth....
These people really think that eating a diet of nothing but donuts is healthy? Is that what you are telling me? That they don't know that foods have vitamins and minerals, some more than others, and that things like fruits, vegetables, grains, meat and dairy are all a good foundation for a balanced diet? They really don't know that?
Or they don't know how many grams of protein are appropriate, or that vegetables and fruits are comprised of carbs, that there are healthy fats and unhealthy fats.... things like that? Because I feel like you are suggesting that they really don't even understand elementary school nutrition, when in fact, they do know those basics, but never took an advanced course in high school.
7 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
So, while you acknowledge that's not what anyone is advocating for, eating nothing but junk all day, but as @lemurcat12 pointed out above, your assumption is that there are people who will interprete a simple statement like "eat what you want within your calories" (which by the way is almost always preceded by the question - can I eat a cookie and still lose weight?) as a suggestion to just go and eat nothing but poor quality foods. Like @lemurcat12 said, I think it is insulting to presume that this is what people want to do, or that they don't even have the basic knowledge of nutrition that is taught in preschool, that it is important to eat healthy foods.
When you consistently meet with people that actually eat with no regard to the effect it's having on their bodies that are coming in to change and learn because they have absolutely no understanding about nutrition at all, it's not really insulting but the unfortunate truth....
I am pretty sure they know...I suspect most are just being profoundly selectively/willfully stupid.
I am sure there are plenty of people out there that truly did NOT learn the basics of nutrition due to extreme problems with their schooling, likely combined with extreme socio-economic problems, but if someone can afford you as a personal trainer (I think that is what you are...?) then I have a harder time buying that they don't know they should be eating their vegetables and proteins and whole grains. They just choose to ignore it, and then possibly play dumb when meeting with a doctor or a trainer, and then in many cases fail to adhere to proscriptions for eating. Just because they don't WANT to and they could give a rat's butt over their health.
On the other hand, my trainer advised me to go quite low carb, and after a day, I told him where he could stick that advice.
8 -
janejellyroll wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
Even if someone did decide to fill their entire calorie count with low quality foods (according to your definition), they would still be better off if they learned how to match their intake to the number of calories that they actually need to maintain a healthy body weight. Even if they decide not to count calories forever, they could take learnings about portion size and the general calorie count in various types of food and apply them to their post-calorie counting life.
This is also completely ignoring that many people (at least on this website) who begin counting calories in the context of their typical diet make minor or even major changes as they progress in order to eat more volume, feel fuller longer, etc.
When I began counting calories, I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to stop eating anything. But still, over the months, without making deliberate decisions to do so, I began adding new foods and drastically limiting my consumption of others to make it easier to hit my goals daily.
This is exactly what I like about the "eat what you want" mantra. It's self-correcting. I have drastically reduced my intake of certain foods (I haven't had fried eggplant in nearly year for example) without the tug-o-war of "I can't have it, but I want it". It just happened on its own. There are foods that are just not worth eating often even if I love them because they take up too much space in my calorie budget, meaning going hungry or being unable to eat many other foods I love. Sometimes something feels like it's really worth it that I'm willing to be hungry to have it, but more often than not people (including me) tend to want to avoid constant hunger - like I said, self correcting.
When it eating more nutritious foods and fewer calorie dense foods feels like a choice it feels easier to me, it turns it from an "I can't" into an "I don't want". It's much more pleasant.
Even if someone doesn't want to count calories for life, counting calories for a good while establishes patterns. You learn what an appropriate serving of high calorie foods looks like, and what you can do with your other meals if you choose to have more of said food.
On the flip side, it's entirely possible to overeat nuts and seeds, olive oil, tahini, dried fruits...etc despite being healthy. What's worse is that some of the fancy health foods like chia seeds, coconut, flaxseed and such are quite high in calories. Eating healthy is not protective from weight gain. There is a full spectrum of calorie densities in the realm of nutritious foods. It's irresponsible to mislead people into thinking that healthy is all that matters. Proper calorie balance is one of the most important things a person who cares about health needs to achieve.9 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »I don't believe humans were necessarily meant to eat grain nor dairy... Maybe some have adapted but I know many people and myself feel terrible after eating any gluten or dairy.
Apples give me a stomachache. Therefore people aren't necessarily meant to eat apples?
Well, what evidence can you provide that we were meant to eat apples?1 -
French_Peasant wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
Even if someone did decide to fill their entire calorie count with low quality foods (according to your definition), they would still be better off if they learned how to match their intake to the number of calories that they actually need to maintain a healthy body weight. Even if they decide not to count calories forever, they could take learnings about portion size and the general calorie count in various types of food and apply them to their post-calorie counting life.
This is also completely ignoring that many people (at least on this website) who begin counting calories in the context of their typical diet make minor or even major changes as they progress in order to eat more volume, feel fuller longer, etc.
When I began counting calories, I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to stop eating anything. But still, over the months, without making deliberate decisions to do so, I began adding new foods and drastically limiting my consumption of others to make it easier to hit my goals daily.
^^^ I agree. The advice to "eat what you want as long as it fits your calories" is deceptively simple: the devil is definitely in the details. It is in fact, devilishly hard to fit a 500 calorie apple fritter into a 1200 calorie diet, and most people probably don't have to try to do this more than once or twice, because when you do, you either have to go hungry or suffer the disappointment of blowing your goals out of the water. You quickly learn to either not eat the fritter, or expand your activity so you can occasionally fit a fritter into your day. (Ask me how I know this).
Perhaps it is better stated to "eat what you want as long as it fits your calorie/macro/micro goals" but the basic advice to fit things into your calorie box is not off track.
Exactly. Very few people are going to try to fit a 500 calorie item into a 1,200 calorie plan more than once or twice. They'll either have a smaller portion or just not choose that food.
I probably know this the exact same way that you know this, only my lessons were delivered by french fries, craft beer, and chocolate cake, not apple fritters.
5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Not literally :P
I guess I don't understand how someone who understands how much energy their body needs and consistently consumes that amount of energy is still a fatty on the inside. I became fat because I disregarded how much energy my body needed. Adjusting that changed the situation. But you're arguing that if I don't meet certain nutritional standards (as determined by you), I might still be considered fat?
sounds like he is making the mythical connection that anyone who says it is OK to eat within your calories and you will still lose weight, is advocating for a diet of 100% oreos, or something...
I want this mythical 100% Oreo diet.4 -
stormcrow2 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Not literally :P
I guess I don't understand how someone who understands how much energy their body needs and consistently consumes that amount of energy is still a fatty on the inside. I became fat because I disregarded how much energy my body needed. Adjusting that changed the situation. But you're arguing that if I don't meet certain nutritional standards (as determined by you), I might still be considered fat?
sounds like he is making the mythical connection that anyone who says it is OK to eat within your calories and you will still lose weight, is advocating for a diet of 100% oreos, or something...
I want this mythical 100% Oreo diet.
Here's a menu!
14 Oreos (one packet) for breakfast
14 Oreos (one packet) for lunch
14 Oreos (one packet) for dinner
Total: 2226 calories
Nutritional information
Fat: 992.4g
of which saturates: 46.2g
Carbohydrate: 319.2g
of which sugars: 172.2g
Fibre: 12.6g
Protein 21g
Salt: 4.2g11 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Not literally :P
I guess I don't understand how someone who understands how much energy their body needs and consistently consumes that amount of energy is still a fatty on the inside. I became fat because I disregarded how much energy my body needed. Adjusting that changed the situation. But you're arguing that if I don't meet certain nutritional standards (as determined by you), I might still be considered fat?
sounds like he is making the mythical connection that anyone who says it is OK to eat within your calories and you will still lose weight, is advocating for a diet of 100% oreos, or something...
I want this mythical 100% Oreo diet.
Here's a menu!
14 Oreos (one packet) for breakfast
14 Oreos (one packet) for lunch
14 Oreos (one packet) for dinner
Total: 2226 calories
Nutritional information
Fat: 992.4g
of which saturates: 46.2g
Carbohydrate: 319.2g
of which sugars: 172.2g
Fibre: 12.6g
Protein 21g
Salt: 4.2g
Haha just have to ask, not to say this was ever recommended or ever happened, so both sides are equally an educated guess; but do you think this would result in equal FAT loss if compared to a balanced and more nutrient dense diet with less sugar, more protein and less fat, but with the exact same calorie intake? How about weight loss?3 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
So, while you acknowledge that's not what anyone is advocating for, eating nothing but junk all day, but as @lemurcat12 pointed out above, your assumption is that there are people who will interprete a simple statement like "eat what you want within your calories" (which by the way is almost always preceded by the question - can I eat a cookie and still lose weight?) as a suggestion to just go and eat nothing but poor quality foods. Like @lemurcat12 said, I think it is insulting to presume that this is what people want to do, or that they don't even have the basic knowledge of nutrition that is taught in preschool, that it is important to eat healthy foods.
When you consistently meet with people that actually eat with no regard to the effect it's having on their bodies that are coming in to change and learn because they have absolutely no understanding about nutrition at all, it's not really insulting but the unfortunate truth....
Again though, you are trying to say that when people come here asking for advice they are told to eat what they want with a pat on the head and off you pop. That's patently not the case. You tell, I assume clients, that calories are the primary factor of weight management but nutrition is what matters for health.
That is literally what happens in threads here. So why are you so hell bent on asserting otherwise and that people here are reckless because, well, I don't even know what the because is. There isn't one because it's not happening.
But please, show me where someone confused about nutrition is told to eat whatever they like start and end of story.
I was in a thread yesterday where the OP wasn't sure what macros meant and they were also struggling with hunger. A bunch of people chimed in to teach her what those things are, how adjusting the proportions can help find a sweet spot, meal timings etc. Two or three pages of great advice.
So what you suggest is really an insult to the veterans here. You're implying that you somehow offer superior advice when really it's just language semantics.6 -
Apparently someone already tried it, and proved it worked about the same, with Twinkies. http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.htmlRAD_Fitness wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Not literally :P
I guess I don't understand how someone who understands how much energy their body needs and consistently consumes that amount of energy is still a fatty on the inside. I became fat because I disregarded how much energy my body needed. Adjusting that changed the situation. But you're arguing that if I don't meet certain nutritional standards (as determined by you), I might still be considered fat?
sounds like he is making the mythical connection that anyone who says it is OK to eat within your calories and you will still lose weight, is advocating for a diet of 100% oreos, or something...
I want this mythical 100% Oreo diet.
Here's a menu!
14 Oreos (one packet) for breakfast
14 Oreos (one packet) for lunch
14 Oreos (one packet) for dinner
Total: 2226 calories
Nutritional information
Fat: 992.4g
of which saturates: 46.2g
Carbohydrate: 319.2g
of which sugars: 172.2g
Fibre: 12.6g
Protein 21g
Salt: 4.2g
Haha just have to ask, not to say this was ever recommended or ever happened, so both sides are equally an educated guess; but do you think this would result in equal FAT loss if compared to a balanced and more nutrient dense diet with less sugar, more protein and less fat, but with the exact same calorie intake? How about weight loss?
However, as far as dietary adherence goes, I am certain I couldn't manage more than two days on an exclusive Oreo plan, and I think it would be a rare person who could.2 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »stormcrow2 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
Not literally :P
I guess I don't understand how someone who understands how much energy their body needs and consistently consumes that amount of energy is still a fatty on the inside. I became fat because I disregarded how much energy my body needed. Adjusting that changed the situation. But you're arguing that if I don't meet certain nutritional standards (as determined by you), I might still be considered fat?
sounds like he is making the mythical connection that anyone who says it is OK to eat within your calories and you will still lose weight, is advocating for a diet of 100% oreos, or something...
I want this mythical 100% Oreo diet.
Here's a menu!
14 Oreos (one packet) for breakfast
14 Oreos (one packet) for lunch
14 Oreos (one packet) for dinner
Total: 2226 calories
Nutritional information
Fat: 992.4g
of which saturates: 46.2g
Carbohydrate: 319.2g
of which sugars: 172.2g
Fibre: 12.6g
Protein 21g
Salt: 4.2g
Haha just have to ask, not to say this was ever recommended or ever happened, so both sides are equally an educated guess; but do you think this would result in equal FAT loss if compared to a balanced and more nutrient dense diet with less sugar, more protein and less fat, but with the exact same calorie intake? How about weight loss?
Yes. Everything else being equal (activity, exercise etc).
Where's that link somebody? I keep forgetting to bookmark!
Got it: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10348650/cico-still-skeptical-come-inside-for-a-meticulous-log-that-proves-it/p13 -
VintageFeline wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
So, while you acknowledge that's not what anyone is advocating for, eating nothing but junk all day, but as @lemurcat12 pointed out above, your assumption is that there are people who will interprete a simple statement like "eat what you want within your calories" (which by the way is almost always preceded by the question - can I eat a cookie and still lose weight?) as a suggestion to just go and eat nothing but poor quality foods. Like @lemurcat12 said, I think it is insulting to presume that this is what people want to do, or that they don't even have the basic knowledge of nutrition that is taught in preschool, that it is important to eat healthy foods.
When you consistently meet with people that actually eat with no regard to the effect it's having on their bodies that are coming in to change and learn because they have absolutely no understanding about nutrition at all, it's not really insulting but the unfortunate truth....
Again though, you are trying to say that when people come here asking for advice they are told to eat what they want with a pat on the head and off you pop. That's patently not the case. You tell, I assume clients, that calories are the primary factor of weight management but nutrition is what matters for health.
That is literally what happens in threads here. So why are you so hell bent on asserting otherwise and that people here are reckless because, well, I don't even know what the because is. There isn't one because it's not happening.
But please, show me where someone confused about nutrition is told to eat whatever they like start and end of story.
I was in a thread yesterday where the OP wasn't sure what macros meant and they were also struggling with hunger. A bunch of people chimed in to teach her what those things are, how adjusting the proportions can help find a sweet spot, meal timings etc. Two or three pages of great advice.
So what you suggest is really an insult to the veterans here. You're implying that you somehow offer superior advice when really it's just language semantics.
I was implying that I offer superior advice?
I was saying that I have people that come in that genuinely have no clue about nutrition at all. I've had people who see a little article on Facebook that says that chocolate has all these health benefits and rationalize going and getting a snickers bar because they want to be "healthy".
In no way was I saying anything about myself offering superior advice.2 -
I believe some people may use a Facebook click-bait article about antioxidants in dark chocolate to justify an extra snickers bar, but I. do. not. believe for a single moment that any one of those people would have been unaware that you're supposed to 'eat fruit and veg 'cos vitamins'.RAD_Fitness wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
So, while you acknowledge that's not what anyone is advocating for, eating nothing but junk all day, but as @lemurcat12 pointed out above, your assumption is that there are people who will interprete a simple statement like "eat what you want within your calories" (which by the way is almost always preceded by the question - can I eat a cookie and still lose weight?) as a suggestion to just go and eat nothing but poor quality foods. Like @lemurcat12 said, I think it is insulting to presume that this is what people want to do, or that they don't even have the basic knowledge of nutrition that is taught in preschool, that it is important to eat healthy foods.
When you consistently meet with people that actually eat with no regard to the effect it's having on their bodies that are coming in to change and learn because they have absolutely no understanding about nutrition at all, it's not really insulting but the unfortunate truth....
Again though, you are trying to say that when people come here asking for advice they are told to eat what they want with a pat on the head and off you pop. That's patently not the case. You tell, I assume clients, that calories are the primary factor of weight management but nutrition is what matters for health.
That is literally what happens in threads here. So why are you so hell bent on asserting otherwise and that people here are reckless because, well, I don't even know what the because is. There isn't one because it's not happening.
But please, show me where someone confused about nutrition is told to eat whatever they like start and end of story.
I was in a thread yesterday where the OP wasn't sure what macros meant and they were also struggling with hunger. A bunch of people chimed in to teach her what those things are, how adjusting the proportions can help find a sweet spot, meal timings etc. Two or three pages of great advice.
So what you suggest is really an insult to the veterans here. You're implying that you somehow offer superior advice when really it's just language semantics.
I was implying that I offer superior advice?
I was saying that I have people that come in that genuinely have no clue about nutrition at all. I've had people who see a little article on Facebook that says that chocolate has all these health benefits and rationalize going and getting a snickers bar because they want to be "healthy".
In no way was I saying anything about myself offering superior advice.
3 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
No one claimed that there was bud, neither me or tapwaters had said that..... You keep coming back to this as if we were implying that, what I (as I don't want to speak for him) am saying is that, by just saying that they can eat whatever they want to eat under a certain calorie amount is reckless because there will be people who read that and actually just go eat poor quality foods. I am not saying that anyone here (or anywhere) is advocating for people to eat junk all day, but to me, when you say "eat what anything as long as it's under your calories" may cause people to have trouble with their weight in the future when they do not meticulously count their calories if they have not learned to properly feed their body and listen to their body.
Even if someone did decide to fill their entire calorie count with low quality foods (according to your definition), they would still be better off if they learned how to match their intake to the number of calories that they actually need to maintain a healthy body weight. Even if they decide not to count calories forever, they could take learnings about portion size and the general calorie count in various types of food and apply them to their post-calorie counting life.
This is also completely ignoring that many people (at least on this website) who begin counting calories in the context of their typical diet make minor or even major changes as they progress in order to eat more volume, feel fuller longer, etc.
When I began counting calories, I was thrilled to learn that I didn't have to stop eating anything. But still, over the months, without making deliberate decisions to do so, I began adding new foods and drastically limiting my consumption of others to make it easier to hit my goals daily.
This is exactly what I like about the "eat what you want" mantra. It's self-correcting. I have drastically reduced my intake of certain foods (I haven't had fried eggplant in nearly year for example) without the tug-o-war of "I can't have it, but I want it". It just happened on its own. There are foods that are just not worth eating often even if I love them because they take up too much space in my calorie budget, meaning going hungry or being unable to eat many other foods I love. Sometimes something feels like it's really worth it that I'm willing to be hungry to have it, but more often than not people (including me) tend to want to avoid constant hunger - like I said, self correcting.
When it eating more nutritious foods and fewer calorie dense foods feels like a choice it feels easier to me, it turns it from an "I can't" into an "I don't want". It's much more pleasant.
Even if someone doesn't want to count calories for life, counting calories for a good while establishes patterns. You learn what an appropriate serving of high calorie foods looks like, and what you can do with your other meals if you choose to have more of said food.
On the flip side, it's entirely possible to overeat nuts and seeds, olive oil, tahini, dried fruits...etc despite being healthy. What's worse is that some of the fancy health foods like chia seeds, coconut, flaxseed and such are quite high in calories. Eating healthy is not protective from weight gain. There is a full spectrum of calorie densities in the realm of nutritious foods. It's irresponsible to mislead people into thinking that healthy is all that matters. Proper calorie balance is one of the most important things a person who cares about health needs to achieve.
This is such a great description of how it happened for me (avoiding the tug-of-war). I just . . . gradually wanted certain things less, with a lack of the inner conflict over wanting it but feeling like I "shouldn't."
I am someone for whom "eating healthy" wouldn't have helped much. I naturally tend to have a hearty appetite and I want large portions. If I just put stuff like tahini, dried fruit, coconut, etc into my diet without an understanding of calories, I would fail completely. (Note: I do eat all those foods, but in portions that fit my calorie goals).2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »I think the whole "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" tripe is total *kitten*. Yea, you'll lose weight, but you'll still be fatty on the inside and not healthy.
I agree, I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to count their calories for the rest of their lives, so just saying to eat whatever you want within your calories is irresponsible. It doesn't help people in the long term because they continue to eat the foods that generally cause people to over eat and gain weight. There aren't many people who have gained a lot of weight eating entirely nutrient dense foods, and yes I'm sure some of you will come on to say that's how you gained your weight, but for the VAST majority of people, reducing the sugary and fatty meals and treats will help keep their weight at a more healthy level in the long term.
It's much more likely that incorporating those "treats" into a deficit will build the habits over time to prevent them from exceeding their calories on maintenance.
Also, I don't know why it's unreasonable to monitor intake for a lifetime.
I agree, I think people are far better off incorporating treats, but to say "eat what you want as long as it fits in your calories" I don't believe is good because I don't think that's what people should be doing. I think they should be eating a nutrient dense diet and allowing themselves treats when they need them.
Also there is a small group of people that have their health and diet at a high enough priority in their lives to even make healthier food choices and quantities to begin with, so I believe it is very unreasonable to expect for people to be counting their calories for a lifetime, most cannot even consistently do it to lose and maintain a substantial amount of weight even when their health is in jeopardy.
who is this person advocating a nutrient deficient diet and saying eat cookies all day but stay under your calories and you will be fine? I just want someone to tell me who this person is that is making this claim..????
I think sometimes it comes from this assumption that anyone with excess weight is eating 100% non-nutrient dense foods. But even people with room to make improvements in their diets probably aren't eating purely non-nutrient dense foods. They're probably eating a combination of different foods, adding up to excessive calories.
Yeah, and this drives me crazy, because when I got fat I was (1) eating the same nutrient dense diet I had when I was thin, but had abruptly stopped being active (depression/anxiety issues were related) and not adjusted my diet, and then (2) after a while when I'd gained weight so figured it didn't matter started eating stuff between meals for emotional reasons (not always nutrient poor stuff, more related to what was available).
When I decided to improve my diet, I focused on eating just at meals and getting active again and paying attention to my portions. How I'd been eating when active before -- largely nutrient dense meals (lots of vegetables -- I don't understand it when people say they dislike vegetables) made from whole foods, but with 1-2 meals out at nice restaurants (or interesting restaurants) per week, because I'm kind of a foodie and have to for work sometimes -- and some tasty dessert foods because I like that stuff -- IS how I wanted to eat, the issue was I had to figure out how to do it within my calories. It wasn't too hard once I stopped mindless/emotional eating (which was never how I wanted to eat) and got real with pointless wasting of calories (I could use less added fat than I had been, be more careful with portions of things I don't care much about or not include them, not treat every time at a restaurant as an excuse to overeat or ignore amounts, measure out my ice cream or dessert or save it for a special occasion).
For me, this is eating as I like within my calories. What others do -- what they like -- will be different, but the idea that it means eating a poor, non nutrient diet is false and insulting, IMO, and says more about the person making the assumption.
I see nothing wrong with counting as a permanent thing, but I don't do it -- I can eat what I want within my calories now that I am basically at maintenance by watching portions and the rest and exercising sense in food choices.
People who say that if you tell people to eat what they want within their calories you are being irresponsible since they won't think about satiety and health and how they feel or learn anything are assuming that other people are idiots and ignoring that you learn a lot by logging even if you don't innately or already know what is satiating for you.
Okay, rant over! ;-)7 -
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »I don't believe humans were necessarily meant to eat grain nor dairy... Maybe some have adapted but I know many people and myself feel terrible after eating any gluten or dairy.
Apples give me a stomachache. Therefore people aren't necessarily meant to eat apples?
Well, what evidence can you provide that we were meant to eat apples?
They're yummy. Q.e.d.2
https://youtu.be/eyC_NKEz62AThis discussion has been closed.
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