November 2018 Monthly Running Challenge

polskagirl01 wrote: »

midwesterner85 wrote: »

PastorVincent wrote: »

Orphia wrote: »

PastorVincent wrote: »

garygse wrote: »

@Scott6255, @katharmonic, @Tramboman, @workaholic_nurse, @Orphia, @PastorVincent Thanks guys for the kind words!

Orphia wrote: »

@garygse Bravo on your marathon PB!!

I figure it's your PB, as even if you do a PB in an event, that doesn't compare to any other event, as they're all different and each one has different weather anyway, so how long is a piece of string?

You rock!

Say, you did this almost unfueled?

Do you believe in this "fat adaptation" stuff from the LCHF evangelists?

It seems to me you get better at longer distances and running on your fat reserves after glycogen is depleted by running longer distances, not so much by what you eat.

First, I've always believed in balanced diets, so no "high this, low that" or restrictive diets...just sensible portions of foods that for the most part deliver most of the required nutrients (that's not to say that I think these diets don't work...they're just not for me). So in that respect, I don't read up on any kind of diet, and had to look up fat adaptation. I can't say I'm sold on it...especially when the site I read contained lines like "this basic physiology appears to be lost on most doctors and dieticians [sic] worldwide" which just stinks of woo science if you ask me.

Personally, I think your last line is spot on.

edit: missed a name!

It is not "woo" science (as someone up thread said), look at people like @JessicaMcB who do it exclusively. The thing is though humans are a very biologically diverse species, far more than we give credit for, so not all things work as well for all people.

In general, each person needs to learn their body and work with it for best results.

The laws of physics do not work selectively.

Yes, you feel like crap when your glycogen is depleted. I'm not convinced ketoers don't feel like crap all the time.

The laws of physics are not the issue, biochemistry is. I spent years on LCHF and it was some of my healthiest years. I regained so much lost health and strength that it literally turned my life around medically. Diabetics pretty much have to live that way.

To say that everyone one reacts the same way to food is to turn a blind eye to medical science and common sense. I can eat a potato and register no blood spike on a meter, another person will register a major blood sugar spike. If my wife gets a nut, she chokes and could die, while I eat nuts daily. I am immune to novicane, while others are not. If I eat wheat, I get ill for WEEKS, and yet you probably eat all the bread you want without issue. My father drinks coffee to help him sleep, while others drink it to wake them up. If my wife drink DECAF coffee she cannot sleep right, never mind caffeinated. She has to take 1/2 to 1/3 the normal dose of medicines because she is a "slow metabolizer."

We are biologically and biochemically a diverse species. Medical science is clear on that. So while you personally do not like LCHF, that does not change that for a decent portion of the population it works well and better than the HCLF diet, or the so-called "balanced" diet that is 50% sugar.

Sure, drop us out of a plane without proper equipment and we all die - but give us all nuts and only some die. That is the difference between a law of physics like gravity, and biochemistry.

I'm not keeping up with this thread very well, so there may have been more discussion on this... but I eat zero carb (carnivore) and run. I'm not fast, but I'm faster than when I ate lots of carbs... that probably has more to do with weight and cardiovascular growth, though.

ETA:

Also there is this from another thread (thanks @alabasterverve )

AlabasterVerve wrote: »

Zach Bitter (low carb athlete) set the record for the fastest recorded 100 mile trail run. (12:08:36)

"It kind of starts a week out for a goal race. First 4-5 days of week I go very low carb. 1-2 days out I bring back some carbs; usually in the form of potatoes, raw honey, melons berries. Race day I rely on body fat for fat burning energy and gradually use small amounts of carbs through the race." -Zach Bitter

Source

I'm intrigued by the zero-carb part of your comment! How long has it been since you've had carbs? It's amazing how our bodies work.

Thought/question: from Zach Bitter's quote and other things I've heard on various podcasts, I got the impression that a lot of the LCHF ultra runners add carbs back in for races (which doesn't make sense to me, if it works so great for them). Is it common for people to do that? Are they still a "low-carb runners" if they're doing that?

Of course our bodies and medical issues are all so different, so if you find something that works, by all means go with it!

@polskagirl01 I started with low carb years ago, gradually decreased down to keto, and then ultimately zero carb / carnivore.
-From March - Oct. 2017, I stayed carnivore.
-Oct. - Dec. 2017, I switched to Lyle McDonald's RFL plan for a few months to lose body fat quickly. If you are not familiar, that plan is very low carb (between carnivore and keto), very low fat, and moderate protein. It includes a weekly "glycogen refeed" (about 600g complex carbs that day) and allows a weekly cheat meal. That worked really well.
-Dec. 2017 (just a few days in Dec.) - Jan. 2018, I took a "diet break" for 20 days and just ate whatever and as much as I wanted. During that time, I gained 32 lbs., about 15-20 of which was body fat. To this day, I still need to lose that much body fat. I can't do that again!
-Jan. 2018 - today, I've been following carnivore and maintaining (possibly gaining very slowly).

Carnivore is described as zero carb, but I'll be honest and say it does include a bit of carbs. For example, if I eat eggs, there is something like 0.6g carbs in an egg. Some small amounts of spices/seasonings/sauces are allowed, so I end up with a few grams of carbs there. And when my BG is low (I have type 1 diabetes), I treat with glucose tablets as needed.

As to supplementing carbs during races... becoming fat adapted raises the level of exertion at which our muscles are capable of directly oxidizing free fatty acids. However, race pace usually means exerting beyond that level. As such, it is common for carb supplementation during races. I do that, but mostly for BG management. I know what exertion level I max out the ability to use fat because I'm constantly monitoring BG. I take carbs during races in order to avoid and treat low BG, which I suppose is not terribly different than taking them for the energy to exert at higher levels.

debrakgoogins wrote: »

I am on week four of my Fat to First Mile program. I have lost 9 pounds and can run all my intervals without issues and without pain. My resting heart beat has dropped by about 10 bpm. I have come to the point where I am disappointed when I hear the beep telling me it's time for my walk interval. Does this mean I am a real runner?!

Side note, I have attemped to update my ticker but no matter what I do, the miles are wrong. It shows that I have done 19.5 miles in the preview but when I copy and paste the ticker, it shows 16.5 miles. I know not really a real world problem but I like the the little ticker thingy

It works, just paste it in and ignore it. When you come back later and check the thread it will have the right number.

@shanaber so sorry about your stress fracture. It's heartbreaking, but the road will still be there to greet you when you are better.
@debrakgoogins that is so great that you are progressing so well! Yes, you are a runner.

garygse wrote: »

youngcaseyr wrote: »

Questions for people who do running streaks and/or regularly run more than 10 miles/day: how do you prevent overuse injuries? How do you handle sudden soreness or discomfort that lasts longer than a week? How did you build up to running that distance regularly?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

Sudden soreness is a sign (to me) to either back off the mileage and/or slow down. If I try and push through it, I'm simply risking making things worse which usually translates to a much longer recovery time.

As for how I built up my mileage, I slowly built up from a starting point of running single-digit distances three times per week. From there, I increased the mileage (remember, no more than a 10% increase in mileage per week) until I was running at least three 10-mile runs per week, and finally moved up to 3 half marathon distances per week before deciding to cut back the mileage a little and increase my runs to five times per week instead.

Now, any mileage increase is generally due to faster-paced running and not from increased running time. It's taken me almost two and half years to get to this point, and to help avoid injury, I initially focused on running form a lot until it became second-nature. I also made sure to keep my runs easy. I've still had my share of injury, and I try to learn from them to reduce the odds of it happening again:

• was it sheer bad luck and could happen to anyone?
• is my diet lacking in any area?
• am I too fatigued and losing my form?

I also make sure nowadays to take a cut-back week every fourth or fifth week or so, where mileage is reduced to about 60%.

Of course, what worked for me may not work for others, but in general just take it easy and slowly increase the mileage and you should be fine.

@garygse thanks for your input! I've been running regularly for the past 7 years and currently run a little over 5 miles 6 days/week. I recently started shooting for one 6 mile run per week, and the most I've ever run at one time is 9 miles, but I'd like to build up to doing 10 miles once a month, kind of for the sake of goal-setting and to prevent stagnation or monotony, and also because I have little interest in formally running a half marathon but would still like to try to run that distance. I feel like my running pace is pretty moderate-- I'm not exhausted at the end of a run but I also feel like I put some effort into it. Typically my mileage increase happens as a result of feeling "too comfortable" running whatever my current mileage is, and since I don't really have interest in running faster I usually feel that it's appropriate/a good time to try to run longer.

Anyway, I don't know anyone IRL who runs as much or as long as I do and wanted some pointers for increasing my mileage with decreased risk. Thanks!

PastorVincent wrote: »

youngcaseyr wrote: »

Questions for people who do running streaks and/or regularly run more than 10 miles/day: how do you prevent overuse injuries? How do you handle sudden soreness or discomfort that lasts longer than a week? How did you build up to running that distance regularly?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

I am in my "off-season" right now so not running as much, but come January you will see my miles start to climb (assuming I can get out! New job has made that much harder)I often run three or more over 10 mile days in a row and add 1 or 2 long runs on top of that. In my off season, I try to be happy with getting out 3 times a week and get 1 or 2 half marathons or greater distances in.

The difference between me and like 90% of this thread is I have built up to where I am over the last 15 YEARS. When I started I could not WALK 20 feet without getting out of breath. It took many years for me to get to the 5k is reasonable level (now, its way too short LOL).

So, my point is for people at my level of endurance, 10+mile runs multiple times a week is not overuse so there is no overuse injury. People like @AlphaHowls are even a level beyond me. If I tried to jump from where I am right now to her level with no incline I probably would get hurt.

The real secret to prevent injury (not counting tripping over empty air and the like) is to know your real limits and work within them. Push yourself, yes, but not to an extreme.

The common rule of thumb is no more than 10% distance increase per week, and have a cut back week every third or fourth week. Tweak this to match your time, body, and etc. Or the best plan really is to just find an already built running plan that lines up with your goals and use that as your model.

Finally, DO NOT COMPARE YOUR SELF WITH OTHERS. Seriously, just do not do it. There is no happiness there, just work on being a better you.

@PastorVincent thank you, as well! Haha maybe I just need another 8 years under my belt! I've never cut back on my running outside of extreme sickness, injury, or pregnancy, but it sounds like maybe I should start thinking about it. I just never thought of anything under 7 miles a day as "long enough" for breaks like that. Since I've started running again after I had my son I have been much more aware of the need to slow down assess how I feel in general when I run, but I still have such an aversion to stopping altogether when it comes to injury or soreness if it's not something totally unbearable.