November 2019 Monthly Running Challenge
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Gotta say I don't fully agree with you on that point. Obviously this is just my opinion, but taper is a reduction in mileage, not effort, so a three-week taper for me would be something like:PastorVincent wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »ok plan made.
extended an ultra plan with a slower ramp up. a few people have been pm'd. everyone else, feel free to continue to nag. i give permission.
tbf, my husband nagged but not with permission
plan as of now
That 50 at the end is a big mileage increase over the prior week... it generally is high risk to make such a sharp increase so quickly.
interesting because i didn't touch that part of the plan. hmm
Am I reading this right... you never run more than 10 miles, then jump to a 50 mile run?
No, that last column is labeled "Saturday" - I think y'all are reading it as the weekly total line. There's a bunch of 20+ runs in the first column, "Sunday". It looks like the plan maxes out week 24 with a 31 mile run/65 mile week, then gradually tapers until race week with the 50 mile run in a 69 mile week.
i think you might be rightPastorVincent wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »ok plan made.
extended an ultra plan with a slower ramp up. a few people have been pm'd. everyone else, feel free to continue to nag. i give permission.
tbf, my husband nagged but not with permission
plan as of now
That 50 at the end is a big mileage increase over the prior week... it generally is high risk to make such a sharp increase so quickly.
interesting because i didn't touch that part of the plan. hmm
Am I reading this right... you never run more than 10 miles, then jump to a 50 mile run?
i would say no you are not reading it right
I see where there are some 20-something milers on Sundays, but still not quite getting close to 50.
And then a really long taper before the race. Are you sure that is reasonable?
I've never run an ultra so I really probably keep my mouth shut, but from poking around the internet a bit it looks like it's pretty normal for a 50 mile plan to include 2-3 weeks of taper (and the first of those weeks includes a race, so that's its own thing) and max out the long run around 30 miles. It looks like 31 is the exact number that Runner's World uses.
i did the same but also have never run an ultra
I have run multiple ultras so I am an expert on this scale
*rolls eyes*
2-week taper is not unreasonable, 3 is on the border of overkill, and de-training but for a first ultra it is probably completely fine. I personally would never advise more than 3 as de-training becomes a real thing then.
A max long run of around 30 miles is not unusual either. Most amateur training plans keep max distance as about one solid race below the race distance. So 50 mile, step down to 50k. Aka 30 miles. Marathons step down to 20 miles (little more than 30k), half plans cap at 10 miles.
The idea is that 30 miles on tired-non-tapered legs will simulate the last 30 miles of a well-rested/tapered 50-mile race. The more miles you put in the training, the more likely you are to get hurt. So plans are built around minimizing training distance, while still being enough.
Some people do not follow that way of thinking, I know many that would say you should run full distance if not farther in training. I also know of others that max training at even small max miles. So you can take your pick of camps to believe in.
For me it would come down to time. Finding time to run 30 miles in training is way hard, finding time to run 50 is beyond me. So I would probably do the same.
Taper week 1: 80% (of max weekly mileage)
Taper week 2: 60%
Taper week 3: 40%
At least for marathon training, that worked out just fine for me...the key being that pace and effort have to be consistent with the rest of the training (rather than reducing effort, which I've seen some people do during their tapers).
Of course, while I've run ultra distances, I've never raced one, so proverbial pinch of salt and all that...maybe three weeks is overkill. <shrug>
I am not hardcore die on the hill for it, if a bit longer works for you, then do it.
Personally I tapper AT MOST one week for marathons and ultras race distance and often NOT AT ALL for shorter races. But that is me, and as I always say, do not use me as a model!
Though I have a coach now, so she might tell me otherwise as I make this BQ run. 3 -
If you're going for a BQ, consider reading Advanced Marathoning (if you haven't already). It's inspirational, full of great advice, and it certainly helped my understanding of how to train better.PastorVincent wrote: »
Gotta say I don't fully agree with you on that point. Obviously this is just my opinion, but taper is a reduction in mileage, not effort, so a three-week taper for me would be something like:PastorVincent wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »ok plan made.
extended an ultra plan with a slower ramp up. a few people have been pm'd. everyone else, feel free to continue to nag. i give permission.
tbf, my husband nagged but not with permission
plan as of now
That 50 at the end is a big mileage increase over the prior week... it generally is high risk to make such a sharp increase so quickly.
interesting because i didn't touch that part of the plan. hmm
Am I reading this right... you never run more than 10 miles, then jump to a 50 mile run?
No, that last column is labeled "Saturday" - I think y'all are reading it as the weekly total line. There's a bunch of 20+ runs in the first column, "Sunday". It looks like the plan maxes out week 24 with a 31 mile run/65 mile week, then gradually tapers until race week with the 50 mile run in a 69 mile week.
i think you might be rightPastorVincent wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »ok plan made.
extended an ultra plan with a slower ramp up. a few people have been pm'd. everyone else, feel free to continue to nag. i give permission.
tbf, my husband nagged but not with permission
plan as of now
That 50 at the end is a big mileage increase over the prior week... it generally is high risk to make such a sharp increase so quickly.
interesting because i didn't touch that part of the plan. hmm
Am I reading this right... you never run more than 10 miles, then jump to a 50 mile run?
i would say no you are not reading it right
I see where there are some 20-something milers on Sundays, but still not quite getting close to 50.
And then a really long taper before the race. Are you sure that is reasonable?
I've never run an ultra so I really probably keep my mouth shut, but from poking around the internet a bit it looks like it's pretty normal for a 50 mile plan to include 2-3 weeks of taper (and the first of those weeks includes a race, so that's its own thing) and max out the long run around 30 miles. It looks like 31 is the exact number that Runner's World uses.
i did the same but also have never run an ultra
I have run multiple ultras so I am an expert on this scale *rolls eyes*
2-week taper is not unreasonable, 3 is on the border of overkill, and de-training but for a first ultra it is probably completely fine. I personally would never advise more than 3 as de-training becomes a real thing then.
A max long run of around 30 miles is not unusual either. Most amateur training plans keep max distance as about one solid race below the race distance. So 50 mile, step down to 50k. Aka 30 miles. Marathons step down to 20 miles (little more than 30k), half plans cap at 10 miles.
The idea is that 30 miles on tired-non-tapered legs will simulate the last 30 miles of a well-rested/tapered 50-mile race. The more miles you put in the training, the more likely you are to get hurt. So plans are built around minimizing training distance, while still being enough.
Some people do not follow that way of thinking, I know many that would say you should run full distance if not farther in training. I also know of others that max training at even small max miles. So you can take your pick of camps to believe in.
For me it would come down to time. Finding time to run 30 miles in training is way hard, finding time to run 50 is beyond me. So I would probably do the same.
Taper week 1: 80% (of max weekly mileage)
Taper week 2: 60%
Taper week 3: 40%
At least for marathon training, that worked out just fine for me...the key being that pace and effort have to be consistent with the rest of the training (rather than reducing effort, which I've seen some people do during their tapers).
Of course, while I've run ultra distances, I've never raced one, so proverbial pinch of salt and all that...maybe three weeks is overkill. <shrug>
I am not hardcore die on the hill for it, if a bit longer works for you, then do it. Personally I tapper AT MOST one week for marathons and ultras race distance and often NOT AT ALL for shorter races. But that is me, and as I always say, do not use me as a model!
Though I have a coach now, so she might tell me otherwise as I make this BQ run.
Best of luck!
4 -
I got a brace for my achilles in hopes to help and did 5 miles tonight. Garmin downgraded my VO2 Max, though.
9 -
Thanks @quilteryoyo!
Date :::: Miles :::: Cumulative
11/01/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 0.0
11/02/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 0.0
11/03/19 :::: 3.1 :::: 3.1
11/04/19 :::: 3.3 :::: 6.5
11/05/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 6.5
11/06/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 6.5
11/07/19 :::: 2.5 :::: 9.0
11/08/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 12.0
11/09/19 :::: 4.5 :::: 16.5
11/10/19 :::: 13.3 :::: 29.8
11/11/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 32.8
11/12/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 35.8
11/13/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 38.9
11/14/19 :::: 1.7 :::: 40.6
11/15/19 :::: 2.5 :::: 43.1
11/16/19 :::: 8.4 :::: 51.5
11/17/19 :::: 3.3 :::: 54.8
11/18/19 :::: 3.1 :::: 57.9
11/19/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 60.9
Keeping up with the treadmill streak after work today. Plus 10 pull-ups out on the main floor of the gym. Lots of muscle-y guys out there at that time of day so I had to try to make it look effortless Seriously though I do think this plan of doing a little every day is making a big difference. 12 -
My husband and I are about halfway over our colds - still sniffly and not fully up to par, but otherwise good - and got out Monday for 10k on trails at WC Johnson. We haven’t run a lot of trails lately because both of us took turns having ankle injuries, and it was... interesting. My calves today are sore! Obviously we need to run more trails, our leg muscles have gotten lazy.
I haven’t really had the experience of running while sick before. At the end I felt great, but that first mile was more of a liar than usual. I thought I was gonna call it and go home at about half a mile, but told myself to just stick it out at least one mile before deciding. By one mile I felt not great but good enough to go on, and by two I was fine. All my muscles started off really tired like my body took forever to start pumping fuel to them, it felt like bonking at the end of a long run with no food. Eventually it seems like my body decided it wasn’t going to convince me to stop so it might as well start operating properly. Bodies are such weird things. After the run I felt much better than before, and today I feel almost well.
I do love trails in autumn. We ran through a shower of helicopter seeds from a big maple tree. The leaves were deep but dry, and the groomers have been out on the trails so there were no concealed walnuts, sweet gum balls, acorns, hickory nuts, or pecans to turn our ankles on. On the far side of the wolf river is a bank of young sycamore trees which were all bright golden. The squirrels were chasing each other all over the place. The weather was just about perfect - I started off overdressed in a light jacket because I don’t regulate heat well when I’m sick, but I warmed up soon and tied it around my waist.8 -
@mbaker566 Don’t let the guys tempt you into overthinking things! 31 mile long run followed by a taper seems reasonable for a first time 50. It’s more important to follow the plan consistently than to have the exact right plan. When do you start?5
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katharmonic wrote: »Thanks @quilteryoyo!
Date :::: Miles :::: Cumulative
11/01/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 0.0
11/02/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 0.0
11/03/19 :::: 3.1 :::: 3.1
11/04/19 :::: 3.3 :::: 6.5
11/05/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 6.5
11/06/19 :::: 0.0 :::: 6.5
11/07/19 :::: 2.5 :::: 9.0
11/08/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 12.0
11/09/19 :::: 4.5 :::: 16.5
11/10/19 :::: 13.3 :::: 29.8
11/11/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 32.8
11/12/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 35.8
11/13/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 38.9
11/14/19 :::: 1.7 :::: 40.6
11/15/19 :::: 2.5 :::: 43.1
11/16/19 :::: 8.4 :::: 51.5
11/17/19 :::: 3.3 :::: 54.8
11/18/19 :::: 3.1 :::: 57.9
11/19/19 :::: 3.0 :::: 60.9
Keeping up with the treadmill streak after work today. Plus 10 pull-ups out on the main floor of the gym. Lots of muscle-y guys out there at that time of day so I had to try to make it look effortless Seriously though I do think this plan of doing a little every day is making a big difference.
Ten! I’m so impressed. I hope you’re proud of yourself!2 -
If you're going for a BQ, consider reading Advanced Marathoning (if you haven't already). It's inspirational, full of great advice, and it certainly helped my understanding of how to train better.PastorVincent wrote: »
Gotta say I don't fully agree with you on that point. Obviously this is just my opinion, but taper is a reduction in mileage, not effort, so a three-week taper for me would be something like:PastorVincent wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »PastorVincent wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »ok plan made.
extended an ultra plan with a slower ramp up. a few people have been pm'd. everyone else, feel free to continue to nag. i give permission.
tbf, my husband nagged but not with permission
plan as of now
That 50 at the end is a big mileage increase over the prior week... it generally is high risk to make such a sharp increase so quickly.
interesting because i didn't touch that part of the plan. hmm
Am I reading this right... you never run more than 10 miles, then jump to a 50 mile run?
No, that last column is labeled "Saturday" - I think y'all are reading it as the weekly total line. There's a bunch of 20+ runs in the first column, "Sunday". It looks like the plan maxes out week 24 with a 31 mile run/65 mile week, then gradually tapers until race week with the 50 mile run in a 69 mile week.
i think you might be rightPastorVincent wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »ok plan made.
extended an ultra plan with a slower ramp up. a few people have been pm'd. everyone else, feel free to continue to nag. i give permission.
tbf, my husband nagged but not with permission
plan as of now
That 50 at the end is a big mileage increase over the prior week... it generally is high risk to make such a sharp increase so quickly.
interesting because i didn't touch that part of the plan. hmm
Am I reading this right... you never run more than 10 miles, then jump to a 50 mile run?
i would say no you are not reading it right
I see where there are some 20-something milers on Sundays, but still not quite getting close to 50.
And then a really long taper before the race. Are you sure that is reasonable?
I've never run an ultra so I really probably keep my mouth shut, but from poking around the internet a bit it looks like it's pretty normal for a 50 mile plan to include 2-3 weeks of taper (and the first of those weeks includes a race, so that's its own thing) and max out the long run around 30 miles. It looks like 31 is the exact number that Runner's World uses.
i did the same but also have never run an ultra
I have run multiple ultras so I am an expert on this scale *rolls eyes*
2-week taper is not unreasonable, 3 is on the border of overkill, and de-training but for a first ultra it is probably completely fine. I personally would never advise more than 3 as de-training becomes a real thing then.
A max long run of around 30 miles is not unusual either. Most amateur training plans keep max distance as about one solid race below the race distance. So 50 mile, step down to 50k. Aka 30 miles. Marathons step down to 20 miles (little more than 30k), half plans cap at 10 miles.
The idea is that 30 miles on tired-non-tapered legs will simulate the last 30 miles of a well-rested/tapered 50-mile race. The more miles you put in the training, the more likely you are to get hurt. So plans are built around minimizing training distance, while still being enough.
Some people do not follow that way of thinking, I know many that would say you should run full distance if not farther in training. I also know of others that max training at even small max miles. So you can take your pick of camps to believe in.
For me it would come down to time. Finding time to run 30 miles in training is way hard, finding time to run 50 is beyond me. So I would probably do the same.
Taper week 1: 80% (of max weekly mileage)
Taper week 2: 60%
Taper week 3: 40%
At least for marathon training, that worked out just fine for me...the key being that pace and effort have to be consistent with the rest of the training (rather than reducing effort, which I've seen some people do during their tapers).
Of course, while I've run ultra distances, I've never raced one, so proverbial pinch of salt and all that...maybe three weeks is overkill. <shrug>
I am not hardcore die on the hill for it, if a bit longer works for you, then do it. Personally I tapper AT MOST one week for marathons and ultras race distance and often NOT AT ALL for shorter races. But that is me, and as I always say, do not use me as a model!
Though I have a coach now, so she might tell me otherwise as I make this BQ run.
Best of luck!
@garygse I have an actual professional running coach now and she thinks that if I start training in January I have a shot at a BQ in a fall marathon. I actually WAS planning to give up road marathons (planned to stick with trail ultras), but this carrot pulled me back in. I have to knock FORTY - FIFTY minutes off my PR (pending where the BQ time ends up for 2021) so it is a big ask, but hey, no harm in trying. If nothing else I will learn more about structured training and the like than I do now. It is almost guaranteed I will at least have a new PR if I do this if nothing drastic happens.
Also, I am not getting younger so the sooner I make the attempt the better my shot I figure. *shrugs*8 -
rheddmobile wrote: »@mbaker566 Don’t let the guys tempt you into overthinking things! 31 mile long run followed by a taper seems reasonable for a first time 50. It’s more important to follow the plan consistently than to have the exact right plan. When do you start?
Yes, in case I was not clear, I think this plan will work if you stick with it. 31 miles is fine. 3 week taper is fine. It is all fine. 5 -
rheddmobile wrote: »@mbaker566 Don’t let the guys tempt you into overthinking things! 31 mile long run followed by a taper seems reasonable for a first time 50. It’s more important to follow the plan consistently than to have the exact right plan. When do you start?
Tomorrow. 2 miles in the evening.
I've not been running a lot so i extended the front end of the plan to help rebuild my base and get in the habit of running consistently.
Now that I have some naggers in my camp, I'm hoping to be successful. After the may race, I'll evaluate and figure out what i need to do for the fall 50 in October.
I was talking to a friend tonight... when things start getting icy, I'll probably need to cancel Netflix and get a gym membership for a treadmill. And when the weather allows, I'll need to hit the trails for some hills.8 -
A beautiful cold and frosty 10K this morning. Set off a bit later and got the benefit of running through the sunrise. Worried not at all about pace and actually really enjoyed it - even all the hills! And it was a respectable 10.21 minute mile average.
Am reading the thread and trying to keep up! Mostly just in awe of some of the distances with ultra marathon plans and talk of BQ as well. Very inspiring! X
11/2: 3m
11:6: 6.3m
11/9: 2m
11/12: 2.4m
11/14: 2.6m
11/15: 6.2m
11/16: 2.5m
11/20: 6.2m
November total: 31.2m
November goal: 20m
October total: 64.1m
September total: 82.2m
August total: 85m
July total: 90.1m
June total: 86.1m
May total: 67.6m
April total: 71.5m
March total: 42.9m
February total: 30.2m
January total: 31.7m
6 -
Things I saw on my 18k long-for-me run today: colored pencils, a little deer watching me, carrots, weird soap suds on the road, broccoli, 2 cops with a clever little speed trap, and (for the first time) the guy who goes with the baby stroller I frequently see sitting around unattended but loaded up with different junk every time. There may have been boars in some brush I passed, but I didn't see them, so they don't count. Then I took my kids to the pool and saw some guy's butt in the locker room. I could've done without that. Anyway the pool ended up being a good workout with the stairs to the slides, and this circular wall thingy that you go inside with a friend, stand opposite each other and start jumping up & down until you get a good wave going back & forth. I got it going pretty well for the kids but my legs weren't exactly thrilled. Now I'm home and stalling at getting some work done, uh... I mean "recovering".
November goal 100 miles
Upcoming races:
Dec. 14 - CityTrail 5k (#3 of 6)
Jan. 11 - CityTrail 5k (#4 of 6)12 -
03/11 5.45 miles for Mobycarp
05/11 2.63 miles C25K
06/11 27 km on bike
13/11 2.75 miles
14/11 32km on bike
15/11 3.02 miles - need more of these
20/11 3.12 miles
5 -
@mbaker566 I am happy to be your local accountability buddy if you'd like
I joined Trail Sisters Waukesha (free) so I could find people to run with on the trails and so far it has been great. I'm happy to meet up for runs if you ever want to.4 -
November Goal – 100 miles
Nov 2 – 5 miles
Nov 3 – 10 miles for @MobyCarp
Nov 4 – 5 miles
Nov 6 – 5.16 miles
Nov 7 – 5.18 miles
Nov 8 – 3.30 miles
Nov 9 – 10.42 miles
Nov 11 – 5.26 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 1
Nov 12 – 3.30 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 2
Nov 13 – 3.20 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 3
Nov 14 – 3.21 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 4
Nov 15 – 6.50 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 5
Nov 16 – 3.22 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 6
Nov 17 – 3.20 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 7
Nov 18 – 5.14 miles – Hug a Runner 5K challenge – Day 8
Nov 19 – 5.06 miles – Hug a Runner 5k challenge – Day 9
Nov 20 – 5.28 miles – Hug a Runner 5k challenge – Day 10 – Finished!
It was a nice 42F this morning with a few rain sprinkles which picked up towards the end of my run.
Monthly Total – 87.43 miles
YTD – 1,044.13 miles
6 -
@polskagirl01 You saw some very interesting things on your run/during your day. I have been running on the treadmill lately, just because of time constraints and darkness, so nothing interesting on my "route."
1 -
JulieS3103 wrote: »@mbaker566 I am happy to be your local accountability buddy if you'd like
I joined Trail Sisters Waukesha (free) so I could find people to run with on the trails and so far it has been great. I'm happy to meet up for runs if you ever want to.
i'm not much for big groups but if you don't mind a slow running friend we could sort out a few trail runs Maybe i'll actually do the northface challenge this year. i'm aiming for tbunk in May and DC Fall50 in October
I do teach aerial yoga in Waukesha. I'm from Waukesha. now in West allis
for those playing along, weekday runs will likely be night runs. i'm currently not a morning person. 4 -
11-1 7k slow
11-2 7k slow
11-3 8k for @MobyCarp
11-4 7k easy
11-5 yoga
11-6 7k slow
11-7 7k easy/yoga
11-8 rest
11-9 7k easy
11-10 7k slow/yoga
11-11 7k easy/resistance bands
11-12 rest/yoga
11-13 7k slow/resistance bands
11-14 7k slow/yoga
11-15 rest/resistance bands
11-16 7k easy/yoga
11-17 7k easy
11-18 7k moderate + resistance bands
11-19 running rest + yoga
11-20 7k moderate + resistance bands
November Total: 106k
November Goal: 135k
January Total: 131k
February Total: 159.5k
March Total: 183k
April Total: 126k
May Total: 128k
June Total: 161.5k
July Total: 151k
August Total: 133k
September Total: 135k
October Total: 115k
2019 Total through October: 1,423k / 882.26m
Monthly average: 142.3k
Next year when you pop in here claiming your December 2019 mileage, what accomplishments will you have made?
Run at least 4 5k races. Completed 8-31
Get under 30:00 and a PR for 5k. Nope...
Average at least 135k per month, which would put me over 1,000 miles for the year.
Run the Year Team: Five for Nineteen - Completed 9-28
Cloudy, low 40s F, and a light breeze to help dispel the Air Quality Alert we're under.
@mbaker566 You're off to a good start. Keep it up!!!
2020 goals:
Continue a 5k regimen.
Train better.
4-13 Shine the Light 5K - 31:12 chip time; First Place male 65 and older
6-30 Strides for Starfish 5K - 31:34 chip time; 31/77 overall; second male 65 and older (no official category)
7-27 Solon Home Days 5K - 31:11 chip time; 95/141 overall; 4/6 age group (male)
8-31 Race for Freedom 5k - 31:39 chip time; 32:00 Garmin time; Third Place male 60 and older
9-14 Gift of Life 5k - off the schedule; insufficient recovery time
10-13 Haunted Hustle 5k - 31:22 chip time; 47/74 overall; First Place male 60 and older3 -
@mbaker566 I feel ya with the "nagging"! Since moving back up here (I'm in Lake Geneva), and with everything shifting , I've kinda struggled to get back on any kind of regular plan. Being up here in the cold, there are no constant races to goal for, but I did find a 5K in Burlington in January to work towards. Not your glorious Ultra, but it IS someting, provided I can keep my headaches down. As long as the nagging isn't boot camp style and more of an encouragement, I'll join! And I do have a YMCA membership, has been a life saver on a few occasions, know there are several gyms that are cheap & a "pay as you go" type of thing.
@JulieS3103 That "Trail Sister" group sounds interesting. I have never run in a group other than @ a race, as I'm usually waaaaayyyy slower than most people, but to meet others and start doing trails interests me. How did you find that group?
@PastorVincent I've had Raynouds for years. Difference being, this is my 1st year up in a cold weather environment. I've already had issues with the gloves I brought up with me. I have access to dreadmills (at the Y), yet I sooooo much prefer to run outside. So I am sure full on winter running will be..a challenge to say the least.1 -
@dreamer12151 if you have a chance, Kenosha running company is a nice place. they host runs in the kenosha area. i'll be doing the hateya on the 7th.
they have group runs during the week too1
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