Coronavirus prep

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  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    lkpducky wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    This is an interesting, lengthy document prepared by Michael Lin, PhD-MD, a professor of neurobiology and bioengineering at Stanford. Toward the end it goes into masks, and he thinks they do help, and explains why:

    https://doc-00-8o-apps-viewer.googleusercontent.com/viewer/secure/pdf/4mnfvpjm27ci9pe8c31c2urn0urg1e5f/63n4lc4mnif52pbnqjptb8j2o27b1tpi/1585614300000/drive/13432444871244508169/ACFrOgDqysAB7pYz3uNv2jL2UqXAq6V_9FpLEY82R0C6IK_4P6u2P50up6hTJpOVA48JPLjNgWYx1S0_rpmGXid6lXLuenPnPOLsgR6kOME1e9ThXkdnB0SMszRxEjafLo79VyLCpdZIKOOumU5C?print=true&nonce=johe0q210nv78&user=13432444871244508169&hash=mlpm17m0bp2jahmm9n3dhia287pdmi2f
    Is this the same? I couldn’t access your link

    https://up.raindrop.io/raindrop/files/146/310/187/Lin_COVID_19_SARS_Co_V_2_slidedeck_20200315.pdf

    Yes, that's it.
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,840 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    VA governor saw too many people at parks and beaches, so... We have a Stay at Home order until... June 10 :astonished:

    I looked this up to find out the details of your order. Why are folks so dumb? There’s a big article about a run on grocery stores and liquor stores, the two main places not affected by the order!
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited March 2020
    T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    VA governor saw too many people at parks and beaches, so... We have a Stay at Home order until... June 10 :astonished:

    I know it isn't, but this just seems like some weird trick to get people to go recreate outside. It seems like more people are out walking, running, etc. than any other time ever - even times like July 4th weekend. As soon as politicians recommended people stay home, all those people who haven't gotten out for exercise in a decade have come out just to spite them. There may be a silver lining to this whole situation after all.

    I don't see that here at all. It may be the poor/so so weather, but I see fewer people outside than I normally do, and the people I see are focused on distancing. I live in an area where outdoors recreation is pretty common under normal terms (that was not entirely the case as of Tuesday, which was a lovely day, but also the day we got scolded by the mayor).
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited March 2020
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    kimny72 wrote: »
    VA governor saw too many people at parks and beaches, so... We have a Stay at Home order until... June 10 :astonished:

    I looked this up to find out the details of your order. Why are folks so dumb? There’s a big article about a run on grocery stores and liquor stores, the two main places not affected by the order!

    People totally panicked about liquor here (when our order was imposed on 3/19 and rumored on 3/18) -- it wasn't known it would be "essential" but since we sell it at grocery stores seemed likely it would be available. Apparently (from later stories, as I don't go anywhere I could observe it) people also panicked about marijuana, although that is also available.

    Our order is currently only through 4/7, but everyone knows it will be extended. CPS just made it clear the rest of the school year will be cancelled and the gov has noted this will last until late into April at minimum. At best cases will be peaking in mid to later April here. The Archdiocese of Chicago has cancelled all Easter services (which made Trump's "we will be back in church by Easter" nonsense that has now been retracted seem extra silly).
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 31,953 Member
    mkculs13 wrote: »
    I was thinking about how I'd love a salad, and the reason I don't have anything to make one is that our produce doesn't last, here in WI, and I haven't been to a grocery store in 2 weeks or more. I bought a wide variety of shelf-stable foods, no more than 2 of any one thing, so I wouldn't have to go to the store. Now I am craving fresh produce. I guess I'll go soon and fill up on salad for a few days, then see if I can last another 2 weeks without any.

    I don't know where you are in WI, but here in MI, the greens I get from the farmers market this time of year last in pretty nice shape for much, much longer than store greens, I assume because they're just freshly harvested earlier in the day. (Hoop or greenhouse grown, locally.) I'm sure they've lost nutrients by now, but the last of the cut-leaf mixed Asian mix salad greens I got more than 2 weeks ago are still in adequate shape for eating raw. Market was still open last week (state already under stay-at-home/essential business orders), but following special separation and sanitation measures); unsure about this week at this point. If you have any options like that, you might get sturdier produce.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,959 Member
    rheddmobile wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    ReenieHJ wrote: »
    moonangel12 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    bearly63 wrote: »
    snowflake954 wrote: »
    bearly63 wrote: »
    @snowflake954 Lol! The mask is going to be the fashion accessory to have in 2020 and beyond.

    Can't you just see the fashion models walking the catwalk next year in masks? We'll all be wearing them. :D

    That is precisely what I pictured....."I'm too sexy for this mask.....too sexy for this mask....so sexy it hurts"
    - Right Said Fred

    I'm in the middle of my second book about the 1918 flu epidemic, and both talk about people starting to wear masks anytime they went out, and the first had photos of some US city (I forget which) in which everyone is wearing masks.
    Dummy me left both my homemade mask and hat at home yesterday when I finally ventured out to the grocery store for the first time in two weeks - if it weren’t 20 minutes from home, and needing to get in and out ASAP because kids were home alone, I would have gone back for them. (The hat because my germaphobe mind imagines cooties crawling around in my hair much like lice I guess). I sat in the car and seriously pondered what to do... ended up just taking a deep breath and headed in, strategically holding my breath when I passed people. Probably a feeble attempt at protecting myself but better than nothing (thankfully it wasn’t a madhouse).

    My sister took her dh shopping the other day, they both wore masks(you're not seeing it much here....yet). Somebody yelled across the aisle at her, telling her she's not supposed to be using them, they're for other people. :/ She's 75 and her dh is 80, has Alzheimer's. Seriously??? And I've offered to stay with him or get food for them countless times. But until Friday, when her dd sent her a couple more masks for extra caregivers to wear, she wouldn't allow me in their home.

    If you read the CDC website, they do not recommend wearing masks...they are of little to no value to the general public in coronavirus protection. This is not an airborne virus and masks only really serve as a false sense of security. They are necessary for medical workers as they can obviously not socially distance themselves from their patients and there is more aerosol transfer in a hospital setting.

    Yeah, the thing is, the CDC is lying about this. There have been several articles in various major news sources about how their messaging changes as the availability of masks changes. In particular the message “a normal person (as you just quoted ‘member of the general public’) couldn’t possibly use a mask properly, only trained medical professionals get any benefit from them.” Yeah, that’s baloney. It’s not that hard, and if they wanted us to know, they would be sharing mask-training videos instead of telling us not to buy masks. It doesn’t help the public confidence when any child can see through what’s being said by the experts.

    Masks don’t stop aerosols, and viruses go right through them, but they do stop droplets. There’s no hard data about protection levels, but in Asian countries which commonly use masks, studies have found they make it about 80% less likely to get the seasonal flu. All of the countries which have successfully suppressed Covid-19 have also put their whole populations into masks in public. Masks aren’t perfect but they do help. The question is, who gets them?

    Right now there are hospitals which are requiring doctors to wear masks and not allowing nurses to wear them because “they aren’t necessary.” Who spends more time with patients? Clearly the nurse. In terms of exposure the nurse is more exposed. But doctors are presumably regarded as more essential.

    I'm way behind in this thread, so I'll probably find it's already been mentioned further down, but the Washington Post has reported that
    Officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are considering altering official guidance to encourage people to wear masks in public.

    Unfortunately it's just in a bullet list of coronavirus news highlights, with no further info I can find. There's a hyperlink in the paragraph on the CDC, but it's to a story that's nearly two weeks old and not about the masks. Also, just noticed, between the first time I read the paragraph I quoted and came back from looking at the old story they linked to, they deleted a sentence about how encouraging people to wear masks in public would be more in line with official policy in other countries.

    I'll put the link here, but no guarantee the entire paragraph won't disappear, I guess.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-latest-news/
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,959 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    COGypsy wrote: »
    moonangel12 wrote: »
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    @AnnPT77 my pastor just put out a call saying his wife is asking church members to help her make masks based upon a few patterns she's found online. Are these masks considered disposable, or can they be washed and re-used, or bleached or something?
    That’s my question... because, I admit quite selfishly, I don’t want to use my pretty fabric if they are just going to be tossed :neutral: I have a resource for quite a bit of older fabric I was told I could have, though!

    ETA: thanks for the added info! I was posting and hubby came in from work so there was a few minutes lag, enough time for others to chime in!

    My mother and I were just laughing yesterday about people making fabric masks. We're pretty sure every quilter on the planet of Earth is probably chortling about how this is the time they've been waiting for all their lives--a deep societal need for items made from all the fabric remnants they've been stashing for years! :D

    I know the introverts thought this was their time to shine, but it looks like it's the quilters that are going to save the world!

    Being a crafter myself, I feel like the Venn diagram of quilters and introverts has a pretty decent-sized overlap.

    There are a bunch of introverts who don't quilt . . . but my experience suggests that quite a fraction of quilters are introverts. ;)

    My mother quilted at home alone, but for my grandmother, aunt, and sister, it is at least in part a social pursuit. Of course they work on stuff at home alone, but they also work together on projects with other people, sometimes quilting a single quilt together (what used to be called a quilting bee), other times getting together for classes on new techniques for making blocks, or going on trips together to various quilting destinations, gathering for quilt shows, etc.

    Respectfully, I don't think socializing (or not) is the measure of introversion.

    I'm extremely very introverted, and I socialize - I'm kind of OK at it, actually, happily talking to strangers, being assertive when needful, have plenty friends of various cognitive styles, all that stuff. Yes, most crafters have gatherings available to them, and they're well-attended. I attend some (local and statewide versions), plus regional/national shows and whatnot for my crafts. That's fun.

    In my understanding, and oversimplifying, introversion vs. extroversion is more about mental orientation toward one's own thoughts and perceptions, vs. orientation to external interactions. Still overgeneralizing, introverts tend to spend energy while socializing, while extroverts gain energy while socializng. On that same cartoonish kind of continuum, introverts are more likely to feel contented in solo activity, and extroverts more likely to become bored more rapidly. Most people are at no particular extreme of these, but are on some kind of continuum, sometimes in different spots at different times/situations.

    I'm not saying that no extrovert quilts/crafts. They do. But, based on the pretty large number of crafters I know - including quilters, which I have in the past been one of myself - the percentage of introverts is higher in the crafts-hobby world than in the overall population. (Yes, this is not a scientific sample.) This is the case even among the crafters I know who are quite social, i.e., pursue lots of group crafting activities.

    Bringing this whole tiresome ramble back to the thread: I'm at home alone, watching local friends through Facebook, phone calls, text messages, etc.

    Those more introverted are sometimes very anxious about the virus and what will happen, but otherwise kind of "it's a pain that I don't get to see my friends for crafting except on Skype/Zoom, but at least I have plenty of supplies, so meh". The extroverts are much more clearly under stress from isolation, even those who don't live alone. They're posting things like (real quote) "I miss hugs from everyone. Sorry just feeling so isolated." And that's someone who's more self aware: Some of my friends are obviously working out distress through things like unfocused anger, over-drinking, etc.

    I don't understand in my gut how it feels to be an extrovert, but I sympathize with (and am concerned for) my more extroverted friends, in a different way than I'm concerned for my more introverted friends.

    Point taken on introvert/extrovert being an internal state. I made my judgment based on what I saw in people seeking out social situations and appearing to genuinely enjoy them, and assuming that was a reflection of genuine desire for social interaction, which to me seems like an odd desire to have on a fairly regular basis (typically the quilters I know have gone to at least one weekly quilt-related social event, on top of other social things in their life) if it's a draining experience. But I don't think most of us know that many people well enough to really know what's going on inside their heads. I don't doubt some of them are faking enjoyment in social situations. I fake it sometimes myself. But I don't usually seek out on a repeating basis situations in which I have to fake enjoyment and disguise the fact that it's a draining experience.

    Not to belabor it, but I think that just like I don't really understand what it feels like to be an extrovert, you may not be as attuned to introversion. Obviously, different people feel differently, regardless of where they are on that continuum, so I'm not going to psychoanalyze anyone else.

    Speaking for myself: I'm strongly introverted by nature, but I enjoy social situations (not faking), to a certain extent, just as (I suspect) many/most extroverts enjoy being alone sometimes. I do lots of things that take energy, and enjoy them. Socializing is one of those. It's stimulating and fun, but it takes energy. At a certain point, I burn out on it, get overloaded, whatever you want to call it, and need to recharge nonsocially. I go to, and enjoy, local craft group meetings weekly (plus), no faking or disguising anything involved.

    But this is off-topic to the thread, other than the observation that, as one of the memes joked, introverts have been "Training for this stay-at-home order their whole lives". (But it's a joke, right? :) )

    You seem to be assuming I'm an extrovert, which just goes to my point about not knowing what's going on inside someone else's head.

    Yes, I did, for which I apologize. I really can't understand being an introvert, but believing that (all?) introverts who socialize are doing something they would truly prefer not to do, or are faking social enjoyment. (<= This is a an admission of my limitations when it comes to understanding what's going on inside others' heads, not a critique of you.)

    I'm sure there are some people who are far enough along the introversion continuum that they would not enjoy such social interactions at all, of course. By definition, it's less likely that I've met them at craft meetings/conferences. BTW, I'm not saying that my crafter friends are mostly introverts because I infer that; I'm saying it because it's a thing people talk about, and they've said that . . . and are posting about it in social media now, as people talk about impacts of isolation.

    I'm sorry if I implied that all introverts are alike in any way other than being introverts. I'm sure to some extent I was making assumptions about the interior life of people based on their actions and my own interior life. And as I've admitted (really trying to back away from an argument and a derailing here), I'm not a mind-reader.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,959 Member
    cmriverside wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    <snip> I don't think there's any way to do it perfectly. I'm hoping that if I do intake any virus it's such a small number of them that I can fight it off? I don't even know if that's a thing.

    I guess it's kind of a thing:

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238819-does-a-high-viral-load-or-infectious-dose-make-covid-19-worse/#

    According to the article, it absolutely is a thing.
    The average number of viral particles needed to establish an infection is known as the infectious dose. We don’t know what this is for covid-19 yet, but given how rapidly the disease is spreading, it is likely to be relatively low – in the region of a few hundred or thousand particles, says Willem van Schaik at the University of Birmingham, UK.

    Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238819-does-a-high-viral-load-or-infectious-dose-make-covid-19-worse/#ixzz6IFUy8900
  • magnusthenerd
    magnusthenerd Posts: 1,207 Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    Reporting on New Jersey: the governor (or his account) on Twitter telling people they still cannot pump their own gas, and numerous NJ residents commenting about how very dangerous that would be in this time and how good it is that they are protected from that danger and just generally wondering why anyone would ever want to have self-pumped gas. Occasional residents of other states are remarking that pumping or not pumping gas is unlikely to be a big difference and mentioning that one can wash hands after pumping or wear gloves. The apparent NJ disdain for pumping one's own gas is something that always amuses me.

    I'm wondering if I can get through this without needing to get any gas at all.

    I just last year got a plug-in hybrid. Gas prices have dropped so low it is cheaper for me to just use it as purely a gas / hybrid vehicle, but I still charge it at home. With all the working from home, I rarely make a drive that uses much of the gas, so charging at home means I avoid touching a pump for a long time, even if it might cost more. Plus there still is the environmental impact. My electric grid being mostly natural gas and maybe a little nuclear is less GHG in electric mode than using gasoline.

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