Coronavirus prep
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »We read how home schooled kids typically do better with the college experience thing.
Where do you read this? I'm curious, as I was homeschooled (didn't go to school until I started college) and I'm unaware of any good data on outcomes related to college. Does "do better with the college experience" refer to grades, social adjustment, success in extracurricular activities, or something else?
@janejellyroll like with corona virus science to date most of the input on home schooled students in college is anecdotal in nature. I give the most weight to what educators experiences are when it comes to homeschooling.
I was the anti home school person in our home when our kids were born in 1997 but the wife who also earned a terminal degree 40 years ago had read more on the subject and wanted to home school.
I have a chiropractic then deep tissue massage this morning and afternoon so I am going to pre heat my body so my therapies will be less painful so I have to run now but in the meantime below was just one quick find. Try to read the comments as well. Later.
https://deeprootsathome.com/one-college-profs-experience-with-a-homeschooled-student/
That blog post is amazingly unrigorous. He was against homeschooling for years and then a single student changed his mind? The lack of critical thinking is astonishing.
"Fourth, in home school she had daily conversations with one parent or the other about a myriad of subjects, whereas her texting, video-gaming, ear-bud-wearing classmates too often skated, side-stepped or escaped adult interaction much of their short lives."
You can talk to your kids even when they're going to public school and I hate to break it to you, but as a homeschooled kid I availed myself of available technology. We had a Nintendo, I was listening to music on my Discman at every opportunity during my teenage years. This is a tissue of suppositions about homeschooling based on a single experience with an engaged and bright student. If this professor doesn't regularly have students engaging with his teaching, I can see why that would be impressive. But it doesn't really backup the claim that the "college experience" is easier for homeschooled kids.
I'm not against or for homeschooling, but my son played soccer years ago with a kid that only started high school after going the rest of his life home schooled. Nothing to do with homeschooling but the Mom was super/hyper protective and believed she was sheltering them from "satan".
Wildest kids in the entire high school Went absolutely nuts with their new found freedom. The son played like a wild boar on the soccer field too. His own teammates had to simmer the kid down. Not exactly socially adept.
I think the homeschooling is dependent on the parent in large part so hard to generalize either way.7 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »We read how home schooled kids typically do better with the college experience thing.
Where do you read this? I'm curious, as I was homeschooled (didn't go to school until I started college) and I'm unaware of any good data on outcomes related to college. Does "do better with the college experience" refer to grades, social adjustment, success in extracurricular activities, or something else?
@janejellyroll like with corona virus science to date most of the input on home schooled students in college is anecdotal in nature. I give the most weight to what educators experiences are when it comes to homeschooling.
I was the anti home school person in our home when our kids were born in 1997 but the wife who also earned a terminal degree 40 years ago had read more on the subject and wanted to home school.
I have a chiropractic then deep tissue massage this morning and afternoon so I am going to pre heat my body so my therapies will be less painful so I have to run now but in the meantime below was just one quick find. Try to read the comments as well. Later.
https://deeprootsathome.com/one-college-profs-experience-with-a-homeschooled-student/
That blog post is amazingly unrigorous. He was against homeschooling for years and then a single student changed his mind? The lack of critical thinking is astonishing.
"Fourth, in home school she had daily conversations with one parent or the other about a myriad of subjects, whereas her texting, video-gaming, ear-bud-wearing classmates too often skated, side-stepped or escaped adult interaction much of their short lives."
You can talk to your kids even when they're going to public school and I hate to break it to you, but as a homeschooled kid I availed myself of available technology. We had a Nintendo, I was listening to music on my Discman at every opportunity during my teenage years. This is a tissue of suppositions about homeschooling based on a single experience with an engaged and bright student. If this professor doesn't regularly have students engaging with his teaching, I can see why that would be impressive. But it doesn't really backup the claim that the "college experience" is easier for homeschooled kids.
I'm not against or for homeschooling, but my son played soccer years ago with a kid that only started high school after going the rest of his life home schooled. Nothing to do with homeschooling but the Mom was super/hyper protective and believed she was sheltering them from "satan".
Wildest kids in the entire high school Went absolutely nuts with their new found freedom. The son played like a wild boar on the soccer field too. His own teammates had to simmer the kid down. Not exactly socially adept.
I think the homeschooling is dependent on the parent in large part so hard to generalize either way.
Yeah, exactly -- I'd expect to see the full range of adolescent/YA behaviors in homeschooled kids. At the end of the day, a lot of it is going to come down to parenting (and individual personality). You can be a great parent and send your kids to school or a terrible parent who decides to homeschool. I've known several homeschooled kids who did go absolutely wild when they were teenagers or young adults.4 -
Who Gets a Vaccine First? U.S. Considers Race in Coronavirus Plans https://nyti.ms/2BSb3IC
I am not a big fan of using race as a determination for who gets a vaccine first. As someone with a higher chance of dying if infected, I would hope that people like me can be first in line.2 -
The offer of the vaccine when and if it happens, should be offered to those who "need it" who are at most risk first. By this I mean Care Persons who are likely to have a greater exposure than others because they are working in the thick of it. And equally to those who for clinical reasons are at greatest risk even at lesser to minimal exposure to the virus those who are more likely to have desperate outcomes.
Also any available vaccine, when/if, it/they come, should be produced by as many companies and possible and used internationally not by just one country hogging it all to themselves. Sadly after a much too slow start by too many Governments in trying to restrict this virus, thankfully the base science behind this horrendous virus has been open to the world scientific community which has made this international property.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
The threat to withhold federal school dollars to states that do not open schools must be having an impact.
Most states get less that 10% of K-12 funding from tbe federal government. A chunk but not a deal breaker if a state wants to be at odds with the POTUS.
Also the President can't withhold federal funding, Congress distributes tax dollars. He can certainly pressure Congress to pass a bill that incentivizes full reopening rather than miss out on fed funding, but the teachers' lobby is pretty powerful too.
You would think that, but in addition to the somewhat controversial action called impoundment, almost all congressional funding authorizations other than direct block grants to states involve some level of decision-making by the agencies that run the programs through which the funds are distributed. Many of those agencies are in the executive branch, like the Department of Education. I can't say anything more about how the Department of Education distributes funding without crossing the line from civics to politics.
This is true, thanks. It's not as simple as I posted. But the president can't just withhold funding, there are a lot of other parties involved. That's not to say it won't happen exactly the way the president wants it to, but I think opinions on this are way more complicated than some would suggest and it won't be as easy to just force schools to reopen in full as some make it seem.
I was glad to see someone else post something I was thinking. It's a sad state of affairs in this country when the only answer we have as a society to a large number of children being unsafe or hungry at home is to get them relief by forcing them back into school during a pandemic. We've become numb to so much
I don't have children and have not even a speck of expertise on what factors into childhood development so I don't feel qualified to have an opinion on which is the lesser of two evils, opening schools or not. But it scares me that it seems like we've left the decision to the last minute and it might not be as well thought out and planned as it should be.9 -
The offer of the vaccine when and if it happens, should be offered to those who "need it" who are at most risk first. By this I mean Care Persons who are likely to have a greater exposure than others because they are working in the thick of it. And equally to those who for clinical reasons are at greatest risk even at lesser to minimal exposure to the virus those who are more likely to have desperate outcomes.
Also any available vaccine, when/if, it/they come, should be produced by as many companies and possible and used internationally not by just one country hogging it all to themselves. Sadly after a much too slow start by too many Governments in trying to restrict this virus, thankfully the base science behind this horrendous virus has been open to the world scientific community which has made this international property.
All fair points.
There are 2 factors:
1. Risk of infection.
2. Probability of negative outcome if infected.
Obviously anyone in the high risk for both should be first. You make a good point about the 1st factor (healthcare workers) being a priority over those of us in the higher risk on the 2nd factor.4 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »The offer of the vaccine when and if it happens, should be offered to those who "need it" who are at most risk first. By this I mean Care Persons who are likely to have a greater exposure than others because they are working in the thick of it. And equally to those who for clinical reasons are at greatest risk even at lesser to minimal exposure to the virus those who are more likely to have desperate outcomes.
Also any available vaccine, when/if, it/they come, should be produced by as many companies and possible and used internationally not by just one country hogging it all to themselves. Sadly after a much too slow start by too many Governments in trying to restrict this virus, thankfully the base science behind this horrendous virus has been open to the world scientific community which has made this international property.
All fair points.
There are 2 factors:
1. Risk of infection.
2. Probability of negative outcome if infected.
Obviously anyone in the high risk for both should be first. You make a good point about the 1st factor (healthcare workers) being a priority over those of us in the higher risk on the 2nd factor.
Yep, just like what they tell you when you get on a plane, put your oxygen mask on before helping others. If the "helpers" (medical professionals) are sick they can't help others and we're all screwed.7 -
gradchica27 wrote: »Someone sent this to a IRL group I’m a member of and I just can’t. Why? Why would someone—an actual scientist and researcher!—post this? I don’t even know what to say.
https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2020/6/28/secondwave
Yeah, this is especially timely given the quote from Sweden’s health department this morning, which said roughly (not an exact quote, but close enough): “Hey guys? This may have been a mistake, we’re all dead now.”
I don’t expect everyone to be able to parse the numbers in their heads, but just for reference. Here in Tennessee, which is not doing so great compared to the rest of America, our population is a little under 7 million and our death count is 678. The population of Sweden is a little over 10 million and their death count is 5,550. If Tennessee had the same death rate as Sweden, we would have 3,666 deaths instead of 678. Sweden is not doing a great job, they are doing a terrible job.
Also for reference, since he claims New York City accidentally achieved herd immunity (also not true since there is no evidence they are anywhere near herd immunity now, but whatever), let me remind everyone that in NYC one in 8 residents in old folks homes died of Covid this spring. One eighth of all the old people, dead, gone, boom. Not something to emulate.13 -
rheddmobile wrote: »let me remind everyone that in NYC one in 8 residents in old folks homes died of Covid this spring. One eighth of all the old people, dead, gone, boom. Not something to emulate.
This is so sad, the scope is impossible for me to wrap my head around.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Is anyone else afraid about the possibility of schools reopening??
All my kids are way over that age but my dh works at a private high school and they usually have about 150-200 dorm students each year, from everywhere. I know it's still about 6 weeks away from now but Honestly, I don't foresee a better environment anytime soon. I just think of all the little kids and worried parents who will have to deal with this.
I know the world is aching to get back to 'normal' but at the price of subjecting the children?
I was thinking about this the other day, and I think what's needed is something radical: much reduced class sizes, especially for younger kids who can't be expected to understand the need to wear masks and to maintain their distance. Which means we need more classroom spaces and more teachers. Space could be rented from facilities that can't open yet anyway -- like movie theaters. performing arts centers, indoor sporting venues. Teachers -- or at least adult supervision -- could be drawn from the ranks of the 10% of Americans who are unemployed, maybe with some online/video support from actual older or immuno-compromised teachers.
ETA: another part of my imaginary radical scenario was going back to mini "one-room schoolhouses" -- not as individual buildings, but classrooms that might have kids of different ages, maybe mixing three families of kids (to limit the number of potential interfamily disease transmissions, if that makes sense). Obviously with the smaller average sizes of family these might not work as well as it would have decades ago (I think the average family size on the block I grew up on was about 3.5). You might have to go four families depending on how large the hypothetical reduced class sizes would be -- I was picturing between five and 10 kids.
I don't see how we can go back to normal-sized classes of 20+ kids, circulating around schools to music rooms and art rooms with different instructors (or changing rooms and teachers for every class with older kids). There would be exploding hot spots everywhere.
Speaking as someone who went to a 3-room K-8 in my earliest grades, I think that multigrade model is a pretty excellent model for social and education reasons, too. We had 3 grades to a room, so (sort of) you got some combination of a year of preview, a year of view, and a year of review for certain grades. At recess (because the 3 rooms were the whole school), there were all-grades games, not strict age segregation. I'm sure it was extra challenging for the teachers, though.
I dunno, my paternal grandmother managed to teach in that situation when she was a 17-year-old bride, and so did a lot of young women. It may have been challenging but they did it. And some of the students from her one-room-12-grade schoolhouse went to top schools on scholarships. My dad attended a school like that and went to MIT.
Incidentally my mom’s house has an abandoned one-room schoolhouse on the property, it’s in the back pasture and my buddy and I cleaned it out for a clubhouse when we were kids. They used to be everywhere. I think that one closed in 1960 something, when the surrounding village ceased to be a village because of people from the farm community moving into town.2 -
Speaking as a retired teacher, students are not the same as when other older educators taught in one room school house. The degree of discipline, level of respect for authority, etc - ALL is gone. I have worked as a consultant to help new teachers coming in the field and many do not have the backing of the people in authority within their classrooms, nor parental input. Student misbehavior runs rampant at times, and the one room schools of "little House on the prairie or the Waltons"era- are long gone!!!!!!. Best to try to figure a way to do social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc- SAFELY!!!!!6
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Before we start planning to send the kids back to school, let's have this pandemic under control. And I say this with lots of respect and understanding for what the parents are going thru.
"The director-general of the World Health Organization warned this week that the coronavirus pandemic is accelerating and the virus has not reached its peak worldwide.
“The virus is not under control. It is getting worse … more than 544,000 lives have been lost. The pandemic is still accelerating. The total number of cases has doubled in the last six weeks,” Ghebreyesus said.
Ghebreyesus also urged nations to work together to solve the crisis. “The greatest threat we face now is not the virus itself,” he said, according to the Guardian.
“Rather, it’s the lack of leadership and solidarity at the global and national level. We cannot defeat this pandemic as a divided world. The virus thrives on division but is thwarted when we unite,” he said.
“Together is the solution, unless we want to give the advantage the enemy, to the virus that has taken the world hostage — and this has to stop,” he added."7 -
Speaking as a retired teacher, students are not the same as when other older educators taught in one room school house. The degree of discipline, level of respect for authority, etc - ALL is gone. I have worked as a consultant to help new teachers coming in the field and many do not have the backing of the people in authority within their classrooms, nor parental input. Student misbehavior runs rampant at times, and the one room schools of "little House on the prairie or the Waltons"era- are long gone!!!!!!. Best to try to figure a way to do social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc- SAFELY!!!!!
Little house was a long time ago and the Waltons were fiction. In real life, on St Paddy’s and Halloween, the children of gangs of Irish field workers would fight the children of gangs of Italian transport workers outside the schoolhouse. That would have been... 1927ish? In the late 40s my dad and his buddies were straight up greasers with their cuffs rolled way up. I also have a photo of him and his first cousin on the front porch with a bear they shot. Kids back then were just as wild and crazy as kids today, just in different ways.4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »gradchica27 wrote: »Someone sent this to a IRL group I’m a member of and I just can’t. Why? Why would someone—an actual scientist and researcher!—post this? I don’t even know what to say.
https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2020/6/28/secondwave
Yeah, this is especially timely given the quote from Sweden’s health department this morning, which said roughly (not an exact quote, but close enough): “Hey guys? This may have been a mistake, we’re all dead now.”
I don’t expect everyone to be able to parse the numbers in their heads, but just for reference. Here in Tennessee, which is not doing so great compared to the rest of America, our population is a little under 7 million and our death count is 678. The population of Sweden is a little over 10 million and their death count is 5,550. If Tennessee had the same death rate as Sweden, we would have 3,666 deaths instead of 678. Sweden is not doing a great job, they are doing a terrible job.
Also for reference, since he claims New York City accidentally achieved herd immunity (also not true since there is no evidence they are anywhere near herd immunity now, but whatever), let me remind everyone that in NYC one in 8 residents in old folks homes died of Covid this spring. One eighth of all the old people, dead, gone, boom. Not something to emulate.
Yep, many people simply don't understand percentages, and don't understand herd immunity. As huge as the NY outbreak was, and as much as it cost them, they are nowhere near the percentage of immunity required to even begin to approach herd immunity. Achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is an inhumane goal, it would require literally millions of deaths in the US.
That Sweden still comes up as an example to follow is frustrating. Like you said, they are not a success, still don't have herd immunity themselves, and are a smaller more homogeneous society than the US, so getting everyone to get onboard the plan and follow direction should've been easier. I need a drink now
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rheddmobile wrote: »gradchica27 wrote: »Someone sent this to a IRL group I’m a member of and I just can’t. Why? Why would someone—an actual scientist and researcher!—post this? I don’t even know what to say.
https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2020/6/28/secondwave
Yeah, this is especially timely given the quote from Sweden’s health department this morning, which said roughly (not an exact quote, but close enough): “Hey guys? This may have been a mistake, we’re all dead now.”
I don’t expect everyone to be able to parse the numbers in their heads, but just for reference. Here in Tennessee, which is not doing so great compared to the rest of America, our population is a little under 7 million and our death count is 678. The population of Sweden is a little over 10 million and their death count is 5,550. If Tennessee had the same death rate as Sweden, we would have 3,666 deaths instead of 678. Sweden is not doing a great job, they are doing a terrible job.
Also for reference, since he claims New York City accidentally achieved herd immunity (also not true since there is no evidence they are anywhere near herd immunity now, but whatever), let me remind everyone that in NYC one in 8 residents in old folks homes died of Covid this spring. One eighth of all the old people, dead, gone, boom. Not something to emulate.
Yep, many people simply don't understand percentages, and don't understand herd immunity. As huge as the NY outbreak was, and as much as it cost them, they are nowhere near the percentage of immunity required to even begin to approach herd immunity. Achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is an inhumane goal, it would require literally millions of deaths in the US.
That Sweden still comes up as an example to follow is frustrating. Like you said, they are not a success, still don't have herd immunity themselves, and are a smaller more homogeneous society than the US, so getting everyone to get onboard the plan and follow direction should've been easier. I need a drink now
Thank you kimny for your thoughts. I am shocked Sweden is not doing great. I can understand US not doing well because of I'll do what I want attitude because "no one can tell me what to do". Are Sweden that way? I have no idea but I didn't think they were like that. Lets share a drink. We are about to get the virus here worse than before. I'm in Northern Queensland. They are opening our borders today to the other states except for Victoria which is not doing great. Yeah... let the virus come see us when we have zero except from the odd traveller showing up and in isolation. I can't wait. I'm getting prepared though but I'm not paying $18 for 10 masks that can be used once. That is nuts!0 -
Reading the Great Mask Wars elsewhere, it occurs to me that this is comparable to going off-grid. The easiest way is not to buy enough solar panels to supply your normal electric use, but to cut back that usage as much as possible and pick up the rest with panels.
In the same way, the easiest way to avoid infection isn't full PPE and decon procedures, it's to avoid being in places where we can be exposed.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »We read how home schooled kids typically do better with the college experience thing.
Where do you read this? I'm curious, as I was homeschooled (didn't go to school until I started college) and I'm unaware of any good data on outcomes related to college. Does "do better with the college experience" refer to grades, social adjustment, success in extracurricular activities, or something else?
@janejellyroll like with corona virus science to date most of the input on home schooled students in college is anecdotal in nature. I give the most weight to what educators experiences are when it comes to homeschooling.
I was the anti home school person in our home when our kids were born in 1997 but the wife who also earned a terminal degree 40 years ago had read more on the subject and wanted to home school.
I have a chiropractic then deep tissue massage this morning and afternoon so I am going to pre heat my body so my therapies will be less painful so I have to run now but in the meantime below was just one quick find. Try to read the comments as well. Later.
https://deeprootsathome.com/one-college-profs-experience-with-a-homeschooled-student/
That blog post is amazingly unrigorous. He was against homeschooling for years and then a single student changed his mind? The lack of critical thinking is astonishing.
"Fourth, in home school she had daily conversations with one parent or the other about a myriad of subjects, whereas her texting, video-gaming, ear-bud-wearing classmates too often skated, side-stepped or escaped adult interaction much of their short lives."
You can talk to your kids even when they're going to public school and I hate to break it to you, but as a homeschooled kid I availed myself of available technology. We had a Nintendo, I was listening to music on my Discman at every opportunity during my teenage years. This is a tissue of suppositions about homeschooling based on a single experience with an engaged and bright student. If this professor doesn't regularly have students engaging with his teaching, I can see why that would be impressive. But it doesn't really backup the claim that the "college experience" is easier for homeschooled kids.
@janejellyroll Are not most anecdotal stories by nature unrigorous?
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janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »We read how home schooled kids typically do better with the college experience thing.
Where do you read this? I'm curious, as I was homeschooled (didn't go to school until I started college) and I'm unaware of any good data on outcomes related to college. Does "do better with the college experience" refer to grades, social adjustment, success in extracurricular activities, or something else?
I was homeschooled. I had an excellent college experience. I wish real life were more like college. I think it generally means grades, I went full academic scholarship undergrad and full (grades based) scholarship to grad school.
Excellent study skills, the ability to self-regulate homework - NOT burnt out on the "classroom experience". Those skills don't necessarily carry past school.1 -
Speaking as a retired teacher, students are not the same as when other older educators taught in one room school house. The degree of discipline, level of respect for authority, etc - ALL is gone. I have worked as a consultant to help new teachers coming in the field and many do not have the backing of the people in authority within their classrooms, nor parental input. Student misbehavior runs rampant at times, and the one room schools of "little House on the prairie or the Waltons"era- are long gone!!!!!!. Best to try to figure a way to do social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc- SAFELY!!!!!
If discipline is a problem, why do you believe it would be a greater problem if each teacher had fewer students to deal with (which would also make social distancing easier)? If student misbehavior is rampant, why do you think they can be expected to abide by rules on social distancing, mask wearing, and hand washing in the larger class sizes that have been typical in recent years?1 -
Reading the Great Mask Wars elsewhere, it occurs to me that this is comparable to going off-grid. The easiest way is not to buy enough solar panels to supply your normal electric use, but to cut back that usage as much as possible and pick up the rest with panels.
In the same way, the easiest way to avoid infection isn't full PPE and decon procedures, it's to avoid being in places where we can be exposed.
Yes, we should avoid gatherings as much as we can. These BBQ's and beaches and similar social events snd places with a bunch of people all packed together are things to avoid. When we must go out (work, groceries, laundry), we should all wear a mask around other people.6 -
rheddmobile wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Is anyone else afraid about the possibility of schools reopening??
All my kids are way over that age but my dh works at a private high school and they usually have about 150-200 dorm students each year, from everywhere. I know it's still about 6 weeks away from now but Honestly, I don't foresee a better environment anytime soon. I just think of all the little kids and worried parents who will have to deal with this. I know the world is aching to get back to 'normal' but at the price of subjecting the children?
I was thinking about this the other day, and I think what's needed is something radical: much reduced class sizes, especially for younger kids who can't be expected to understand the need to wear masks and to maintain their distance. Which means we need more classroom spaces and more teachers. Space could be rented from facilities that can't open yet anyway -- like movie theaters. performing arts centers, indoor sporting venues. Teachers -- or at least adult supervision -- could be drawn from the ranks of the 10% of Americans who are unemployed, maybe with some online/video support from actual older or immuno-compromised teachers.
ETA: another part of my imaginary radical scenario was going back to mini "one-room schoolhouses" -- not as individual buildings, but classrooms that might have kids of different ages, maybe mixing three families of kids (to limit the number of potential interfamily disease transmissions, if that makes sense). Obviously with the smaller average sizes of family these might not work as well as it would have decades ago (I think the average family size on the block I grew up on was about 3.5). You might have to go four families depending on how large the hypothetical reduced class sizes would be -- I was picturing between five and 10 kids.
I don't see how we can go back to normal-sized classes of 20+ kids, circulating around schools to music rooms and art rooms with different instructors (or changing rooms and teachers for every class with older kids). There would be exploding hot spots everywhere.
Speaking as someone who went to a 3-room K-8 in my earliest grades, I think that multigrade model is a pretty excellent model for social and education reasons, too. We had 3 grades to a room, so (sort of) you got some combination of a year of preview, a year of view, and a year of review for certain grades. At recess (because the 3 rooms were the whole school), there were all-grades games, not strict age segregation. I'm sure it was extra challenging for the teachers, though.
I dunno, my paternal grandmother managed to teach in that situation when she was a 17-year-old bride, and so did a lot of young women. It may have been challenging but they did it. And some of the students from her one-room-12-grade schoolhouse went to top schools on scholarships. My dad attended a school like that and went to MIT.
When I was 7, I went to a village school that had two classrooms and two teachers. One was the infants class (ages 5-7 back then) and the other was juniors (ages 8-11). Showing my age here now as we no longer refer to infants and juniors and I can't be bothered to work out what years they would be. No reception year, either. Children wenrt to school when they were five years old and not before. There were 30 children in the whole school, so the teachers had fewer pupils, which may have reduced the challenge a little. Unlike today's teachers who are expected to teach 30 pupils per class. Now, that's a challenge. Plus, the children learned more as they learned from the stuff that they were taught but they also learned from each other.
I've always argued against the segregation of children by age as I don't believe that it allows children to mix and understand those younger and older than themselves. I dislike the school idea as a whole as it is such an artificial environment. Children spend their entire education up to the age of 18 in separated year groups, with others of their own age. They then either continue their education or enter employment where they are expected to integrate with people of all ages and they don't necessarily have the skills to be able to do that. School is probably the only environment whereby children are placed in age bands and generally stay in those age bands throughout their under-18 education.
Sorry, going off topic rather. But interesting stuff.8 -
Speaking as a retired teacher, students are not the same as when other older educators taught in one room school house. The degree of discipline, level of respect for authority, etc - ALL is gone. I have worked as a consultant to help new teachers coming in the field and many do not have the backing of the people in authority within their classrooms, nor parental input. Student misbehavior runs rampant at times, and the one room schools of "little House on the prairie or the Waltons"era- are long gone!!!!!!. Best to try to figure a way to do social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc- SAFELY!!!!!
Right wrong or indifferent on these 2 counts but they were true in the one room school house
The teacher had a paddle and/or a belt and had the permission to use it
And please not to offend anyone but there were no special needs kids in the one room schoolhouse for the teacher to work with. Special needs kids were sadly in a "home" or "asylum" instead of being mainstreamed into a classroom. Also due to prenatal and infant/child care advances special needs kids (mentally and physically) are now showing up and needing an education. In the one room school house time many never survived to be born or live to age 5. My wife has been in special education for about 30 years and she can see the changes in that time. They look at what some of these kids have been through and can tell that 10-15 years ago they would not be alive but are now due to medical miracles and parents are looking for an education for them regardless of level of physical or mental compromise.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »We read how home schooled kids typically do better with the college experience thing.
Where do you read this? I'm curious, as I was homeschooled (didn't go to school until I started college) and I'm unaware of any good data on outcomes related to college. Does "do better with the college experience" refer to grades, social adjustment, success in extracurricular activities, or something else?
@janejellyroll like with corona virus science to date most of the input on home schooled students in college is anecdotal in nature. I give the most weight to what educators experiences are when it comes to homeschooling.
I was the anti home school person in our home when our kids were born in 1997 but the wife who also earned a terminal degree 40 years ago had read more on the subject and wanted to home school.
I have a chiropractic then deep tissue massage this morning and afternoon so I am going to pre heat my body so my therapies will be less painful so I have to run now but in the meantime below was just one quick find. Try to read the comments as well. Later.
https://deeprootsathome.com/one-college-profs-experience-with-a-homeschooled-student/
That blog post is amazingly unrigorous. He was against homeschooling for years and then a single student changed his mind? The lack of critical thinking is astonishing.
"Fourth, in home school she had daily conversations with one parent or the other about a myriad of subjects, whereas her texting, video-gaming, ear-bud-wearing classmates too often skated, side-stepped or escaped adult interaction much of their short lives."
You can talk to your kids even when they're going to public school and I hate to break it to you, but as a homeschooled kid I availed myself of available technology. We had a Nintendo, I was listening to music on my Discman at every opportunity during my teenage years. This is a tissue of suppositions about homeschooling based on a single experience with an engaged and bright student. If this professor doesn't regularly have students engaging with his teaching, I can see why that would be impressive. But it doesn't really backup the claim that the "college experience" is easier for homeschooled kids.
@janejellyroll Are not most anecdotal stories by nature unrigorous?
You wrote that homeschooled kids typically did better with the college experience, a statement that made it sound as if there was data to support it. What you had was an anecdote about a single kid from a teacher who is apparently unaware that homeschooled kids can play video games and kids who go to school can still have conversations with adults.7 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Speaking as a retired teacher, students are not the same as when other older educators taught in one room school house. The degree of discipline, level of respect for authority, etc - ALL is gone. I have worked as a consultant to help new teachers coming in the field and many do not have the backing of the people in authority within their classrooms, nor parental input. Student misbehavior runs rampant at times, and the one room schools of "little House on the prairie or the Waltons"era- are long gone!!!!!!. Best to try to figure a way to do social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc- SAFELY!!!!!
Right wrong or indifferent on these 2 counts but they were true in the one room school house
The teacher had a paddle and/or a belt and had the permission to use it
And please not to offend anyone but there were no special needs kids in the one room schoolhouse for the teacher to work with. Special needs kids were sadly in a "home" or "asylum" instead of being mainstreamed into a classroom. Also due to prenatal and infant/child care advances special needs kids (mentally and physically) are now showing up and needing an education. In the one room school house time many never survived to be born or live to age 5. My wife has been in special education for about 30 years and she can see the changes in that time. They look at what some of these kids have been through and can tell that 10-15 years ago they would not be alive but are now due to medical miracles and parents are looking for an education for them regardless of level of physical or mental compromise.
It's a good point that the "success" of discipline in the one-room school house was related to the ability to straight-up deny education to certain types of students and the normalization of other types of children leaving education early. Children with special needs, behaviorial problems, and unstable home lives could be filtered right out. Now that we have an expectation that public schools will generally educate all children and that kids won't drop out young to pursue work, it's a different situation that is much more complex than "kids today have no respect for authority."7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »gradchica27 wrote: »Someone sent this to a IRL group I’m a member of and I just can’t. Why? Why would someone—an actual scientist and researcher!—post this? I don’t even know what to say.
https://jbhandleyblog.com/home/2020/6/28/secondwave
Yeah, this is especially timely given the quote from Sweden’s health department this morning, which said roughly (not an exact quote, but close enough): “Hey guys? This may have been a mistake, we’re all dead now.”
I don’t expect everyone to be able to parse the numbers in their heads, but just for reference. Here in Tennessee, which is not doing so great compared to the rest of America, our population is a little under 7 million and our death count is 678. The population of Sweden is a little over 10 million and their death count is 5,550. If Tennessee had the same death rate as Sweden, we would have 3,666 deaths instead of 678. Sweden is not doing a great job, they are doing a terrible job.
Also for reference, since he claims New York City accidentally achieved herd immunity (also not true since there is no evidence they are anywhere near herd immunity now, but whatever), let me remind everyone that in NYC one in 8 residents in old folks homes died of Covid this spring. One eighth of all the old people, dead, gone, boom. Not something to emulate.
Yep, many people simply don't understand percentages, and don't understand herd immunity. As huge as the NY outbreak was, and as much as it cost them, they are nowhere near the percentage of immunity required to even begin to approach herd immunity. Achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is an inhumane goal, it would require literally millions of deaths in the US.
That Sweden still comes up as an example to follow is frustrating. Like you said, they are not a success, still don't have herd immunity themselves, and are a smaller more homogeneous society than the US, so getting everyone to get onboard the plan and follow direction should've been easier. I need a drink now
Thank you kimny for your thoughts. I am shocked Sweden is not doing great. I can understand US not doing well because of I'll do what I want attitude because "no one can tell me what to do". Are Sweden that way? I have no idea but I didn't think they were like that. Lets share a drink. We are about to get the virus here worse than before. I'm in Northern Queensland. They are opening our borders today to the other states except for Victoria which is not doing great. Yeah... let the virus come see us when we have zero except from the odd traveller showing up and in isolation. I can't wait. I'm getting prepared though but I'm not paying $18 for 10 masks that can be used once. That is nuts!
Re Sweden, they chose to follow a non-shut down plan (basically what the UK initially said they were going to do and then changed course when they saw the numbers), but simply to strongly encourage social distancing. They thought it would prevent the economic harm suffered by those who had to shut down, and that their health system and resources were strong enough that they wouldn't have an overload. I believe they were right about that (no overload on their health care resources), but their economy has still suffered a hit (because people will not want to put themselves in harms way) and it still got into nursing homes and their deaths per capita have been much higher than many other European countries, especially the other Scandinavian countries.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-intl/index.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-coronavirus-plan-is-a-cruel-mistake-skeptical-experts-say-2020-59 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »We read how home schooled kids typically do better with the college experience thing.
Where do you read this? I'm curious, as I was homeschooled (didn't go to school until I started college) and I'm unaware of any good data on outcomes related to college. Does "do better with the college experience" refer to grades, social adjustment, success in extracurricular activities, or something else?
@janejellyroll like with corona virus science to date most of the input on home schooled students in college is anecdotal in nature. I give the most weight to what educators experiences are when it comes to homeschooling.
I was the anti home school person in our home when our kids were born in 1997 but the wife who also earned a terminal degree 40 years ago had read more on the subject and wanted to home school.
I have a chiropractic then deep tissue massage this morning and afternoon so I am going to pre heat my body so my therapies will be less painful so I have to run now but in the meantime below was just one quick find. Try to read the comments as well. Later.
https://deeprootsathome.com/one-college-profs-experience-with-a-homeschooled-student/
That blog post is amazingly unrigorous. He was against homeschooling for years and then a single student changed his mind? The lack of critical thinking is astonishing.
"Fourth, in home school she had daily conversations with one parent or the other about a myriad of subjects, whereas her texting, video-gaming, ear-bud-wearing classmates too often skated, side-stepped or escaped adult interaction much of their short lives."
You can talk to your kids even when they're going to public school and I hate to break it to you, but as a homeschooled kid I availed myself of available technology. We had a Nintendo, I was listening to music on my Discman at every opportunity during my teenage years. This is a tissue of suppositions about homeschooling based on a single experience with an engaged and bright student. If this professor doesn't regularly have students engaging with his teaching, I can see why that would be impressive. But it doesn't really backup the claim that the "college experience" is easier for homeschooled kids.
@janejellyroll Are not most anecdotal stories by nature unrigorous?
The burden of evidence is on the person asserting a claim. You asserted a claim; Jane did not. She asked what the support for the claim was.7 -
I was surprised to hear on the news this morning that a survey was taken here (Minnesota) and most parents want their children back in the schoolroom in September. If my daughter was still school age, I don’t think I would agree with this. Except that we are in a rural area, with very poor internet service. It’s a real dilemma.6
-
I use the Alexa "Flash Briefing" feature each morning to get some updates each morning as I argue with the alarm clock about getting up. One if the apps I have in the line-up is NPR. They mentioned in the news briefing that there are delays in test results that cause problems. Specifically, they cited Tennessee as an example and said people are waiting 12 days or more for results.
Now, I went to get tested at a site awhile back when they started to become available to everyone. I had no symptoms and no known contact. But as many are asymptomatic (I could have been) and many are spreading without symptoms (I could get it that way) and I still go to stores for essentials and that all makes it entirely possible to get it, I figured I may as well get tested. It took 16 days for results, which were negative.
In the meantime, I had a dr. appt. the next week just for routine diabetes maintenance. They had told me, of course, to reschedule if I had symptoms, which I didn't. When I went, they asked if I had been tested and I said yes, but was waiting for results. When I said yes, they refused to see me and immediately started acting like I was infected. Even to the extent that the paperwork they had already given me to fill out (I hadn't started yet), they gave me to take home saying "Well, now we are going to have to throw it out anyway. Mind you, if I had not opted for a test, I would continue on with life. And they told me I should "self-quarantine" for 2 weeks if I was tested. Didn't ask why I got a test, which would change everything. As someone who didn't have symptoms or known contact, the only difference is whether or not I opted for a test. Everyone else without symptoms or known contact is out spreading it around. Obviously if the results had come back positive, I would then stop spreading it immediately. Someone who is positive in the same situation without a test would continue to spread it, and that is the difference. Since that happened, I have been unwilling to even share that I got a test because I realized how much I am treated like an outcast because of it. It was tough to share here even, and definitely not going to share with people IRL still.
While you may recall that my opinion is testing should be done regularly in order to catch more of the asymptomatic cases and stop spreading it (NPR mentioned this too this morning), this won't work when it takes 16 days for a result. What really annoys me is that the delay is not even testing, at least not for me. It took almost exactly 48 hours from the test collection to results from the lab. Then it took 14 days longer to share those results with me. That should be an easy fix.11 -
T1D - I know you think there is an easy fix for everything, but there really isn't.
Your experience with the testing is just one of many reasons I won't get tested unless I'm being admitted to hospital or I am reallllllllly sick.
What good does it do to test healthy appearing people who will go right back out that afternoon and have a possibility of getting infected just 20 minutes after they take a test? Healthy, asymptomatic people who have no reason to think they've been exposed getting tested seems like a huge waste of resources right now.
If you had tested Positive they would have told you in that 48 hour period - or sooner.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »T1D - I know you think there is an easy fix for everything, but there really isn't.
Your experience with the testing is just one of many reasons I won't get tested unless I'm being admitted to hospital or I am reallllllllly sick.
What good does it do to test healthy appearing people who will go right back out that afternoon and have a possibility of getting infected just 20 minutes after they take a test? Healthy, asymptomatic people who have no reason to think they've been exposed getting tested seems like a huge waste of resources right now.
If you had tested Positive they would have told you in that 48 hour period - or sooner.
I know anecdotes are flying fast and furious, but I've read several accounts online of people who had to wait 7+ days for positive test results. Obviously, all of these stories may not be truthful or based in an accurate understanding of the situation, but I don't know if we can be sure that everyone with positive results is getting them within 48 hours.5
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