Coronavirus prep
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I have my bank set up to notify me of direct deposits and was alerted that my $600 Economic Impact Payment is in. Happy New Year!
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/treasury-and-irs-begin-delivering-second-round-of-economic-impact-payments-to-millions-of-americans12 -
missysippy930 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I believe the carton package for the vaccine vials includes an indicator tag like the in the link below. The tag has a chemical layer that shows gives a visual indication that was exposed to a warmer environment for a set amount of time. The end destination can see the state of the tag and determine if the cold chain was broken.
https://www.labelmaster.com/shop/shipping/damage-indicators/warmmark-time-temperature/
Good to know, but I read that the pharmacist knowingly administered some of the spoiled vaccine, knowing that, at best, it would be less effective. Also that the action of leaving it out resulted in many doses having to be destroyed. My concern is that as consumers, are there safe guards in place for preparing the syringes where more than one person is involved in the process, checking to make sure the cold chain is not broken. Noting time of prep of the dose and actual time of injection for the recipient. Initialed by both involved in administering the vaccine. Maybe it should be part of a permanent recipient record. SOP for better control of records.
Yes, the tags are a preventative measure against accidental spoilage due to mishandling or equipment failure. Deliberate sabotage at the point of delivery is a different issue, which the FDA and FBI are investigating and may lead to criminal charges.
I believe this is a one-off incident, I'm not overly concerned this will be commonplace. The facilities handling the vaccine at the delivery points will have to insure they can monitor their supply and should use this event to make it clear to their employees about the potential consequences for mishandling the vaccine.5 -
missysippy930 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I believe the carton package for the vaccine vials includes an indicator tag like the in the link below. The tag has a chemical layer that shows gives a visual indication that was exposed to a warmer environment for a set amount of time. The end destination can see the state of the tag and determine if the cold chain was broken.
https://www.labelmaster.com/shop/shipping/damage-indicators/warmmark-time-temperature/
Good to know, but I read that the pharmacist knowingly administered some of the spoiled vaccine, knowing that, at best, it would be less effective. Also that the action of leaving it out resulted in many doses having to be destroyed. My concern is that as consumers, are there safe guards in place for preparing the syringes where more than one person is involved in the process, checking to make sure the cold chain is not broken. Noting time of prep of the dose and actual time of injection for the recipient. Initialed by both involved in administering the vaccine. Maybe it should be part of a permanent recipient record. SOP for better control of records.
Yes, the tags are a preventative measure against accidental spoilage due to mishandling or equipment failure. Deliberate sabotage at the point of delivery is a different issue, which the FDA and FBI are investigating and may lead to criminal charges.
Agree deliberate sabotage in most situations is very hard to control.2 -
Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.5 -
missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
My sister works at a local hospital and is the Director of the county health department. She was talking about this the other day. She said they have to schedule 10 people within a 6 hour timeframe to be able to vaccinate because each vial holds 10 doses, and can only be out I think she said 6 hours, then it has to be thrown away if there is still unused doses. She said this is a logistical nightmare because before each person gets the shot, they have to go through all this info with each person, get the shot, sign some paper, etc and that takes time. It isn't at all like you see with the Polio vaccine where they just go down the line and vaccinate as quickly as possible. They have had to postpone people because they didn't have 10 people, maybe only 8, to vaccinate so they have to wait until there are 10, then they have to work quickly to get them all done in that timeframe. And they can't just have a list of standby people to fill in, which she said would be more efficient. Say they have 8 scheduled and need 2 more, she could call, say my parents, who are in the high risk category and see if they can be down at the hospital within an hour to get vaccinated. But they can't do that.
To the bolded, I think getting your shots through hospital or district health departments are far safer than a pharmacy. I could see where pharmacies are not as reliable and things like the above could happen.8 -
We all need to make our own determinations, but IMHO the risk of the global community of virologists, epidemiologists, and infectious disease experts all missing some glaring danger of these vaccines, pales in comparison to what I already know are the risks of covid 19, not to mention all the unknown long term consequences we are just seeing hints of, not to mention 345,000 US deaths so far.
I was reading that during I think yellow fever, Boston was essentially closed for a month to vaccinate everyone. There were strict quarantines, and once it started no one was allowed to enter or leave the city. The military was used to enforce local quarantines for both small pox and yellow fever. I'm not saying that would be the way to go, but previous pandemics required actions that people today are largely unwilling to allow. It's going to be a little chaotic, it's unrealistic to expect otherwise.
But there are a lot of people at the local level who work in public health because they care about people. I believe they easily outnumber bad actors, and are dedicated to figuring this out. Its painful to watch for sure, and scary to think how long I might have to wait. Heck, an even better vaccine might be created before I get access to the current ones. I wish it was being organized better, maybe a new administration can create some infrastructure in time.
I can't wait to hear how the J&J trial is going. That's a one shot, and I think less restrictive storage issues. And since the current rollout has been slow I doubt many participants have dropped out in order to get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines. Silver lining maybe, if you're looking for one
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He is in jail and I hope that he gets what ever license he has revoked for life, and stays in jail for a long time. His actions in my book, were criminal. I am glad that the FBI is also involved.
Wisconsin police arrest former hospital worker whose alleged actions led hospital to throw out more than 500 vaccine doses
Police in Grafton, Wisconsin, have arrested a recently fired pharmacist they say removed 57 vials of the Moderna vaccine from a local hospital's refrigerator and left them to sit out.
Investigators believe the man removed the vaccine "knowing they would not be usable," a police news release from Thursday says. According to police, the hospital pharmacist allegedly provided public safety officials at Aurora Medical Center in Grafton with a written statement saying he intentionally removed the vials, knowing that if they were not properly stored, the doses would be ineffective.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/31/us/wisconsin-coronavirus-vaccine-vials/index.html4 -
@Gisel2015 It really is awful. Even though what he did was one bad action amongst thousands of people doing the best they can, it only takes one incident to take over headlines and endanger public faith. Our newscycle has done a crappy job of covering all the people struggling with covid, but they're making sure they put on repeat one or two allergic reactions and one jerk pharmacist.5
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I talked to Mom about the vaccine (94, diabetes type 2 controlled with metformin) and she figures that she's fine, she doesn't go out anymore and doesn't spend time with people
Oh yeah??
Me and my husband? we could well pass it to her because we're the end of the line as far as vaccines
The rest of the family?
Will she no longer see relatives? she does spend time with my aunt from time to time
*headdesk*
My second oldest sister will need one since she's 65 and working for the post office.
My oldest sister would probably be later - she's 71 but is in a sparsely populated area and isn't exposed to many people at all7 -
The federal response to this pandemic has been a s#itshow. I'm disgusted.24
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My DIL is a nurse on a Covid floor at a nearby hospital that had one of the first known cases in the USA (WA St). I did a video chat with her yesterday and my heart is just breaking. She looked shell shocked. Normally she's a very upbeat positive person. They are almost out of beds. She got a vaccine about 2 weeks ago, thank God.
Last summer I got the impression that she thought I was overreacting with my precautions, not going indoors at public places or other's homes, not letting anyone inside my home, placing hand sanitizer on the porch... even sanitizing my mail. Now, she says she wishes everyone was being as paranoid OCD as me. I'm 63, overweight with high blood pressure and my spouse is a 70 yr old asthmatic, we're just trying to stay alive until we get the vaccine. We can't even determine when that might be.20 -
It’s sad. A friend of my daughters (mid 30’s) 4 year old was diagnosed with covid this week. February 2020 her infant had heart surgery. Just before Thanksgiving her husband had a kidney transplant. How much can one family take?20
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missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
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paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
No, the Pfizer (extreme cold) is one of the vaccines being distributed in the U.S.4 -
Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.
Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »
I had heard the original version of the story when it was believed to be accidental. Now, admittedly intentional. I cannot fathom the reasoning of this individual.
Last night, I read another article about this story. If correct, the occasion that the vaccine was seen as having been left out, was actually the second night the "pharmacist" left it out. He/she was just not caught the first time. Between the first night and the second, when he was caught, some number of people were vaccinated using these vials of vaccine. Speculation about the "why" is that this individual wanted to prove that vaccines are ineffective, by intentionally damaging them and making them ineffective.
One of the things I’ve been concerned with from the start of using the vaccine, was how we can be assured that it’s being handled correctly. Having to be stored at extremely cold temperatures and effectiveness duration when removed from extreme cold. How are they ensuring that standards are being met in every situation, or is it even possible to do so?
I thought the vaccine brand which had to be stored at extreme cold -minus 70 or something - had been abandoned in favour of other versions which are stored at standard vaccine storage of between 2- 8 deg C ??
If so, then it would just be standard cold chain precautions - like the in transit monitor linked upthread and data loggers on fridges and twice daily recording of temps and staff trained in cold chain procedures - all the stuff that is already the case with all vaccines.
No, the Pfizer (extreme cold) is one of the vaccines being distributed in the U.S.
And in Canada. It's being distributed at hospitals as apparently they're the only facilities with the required extreme cold storage.
Northern and remote communities, and the territories, lack the ability to store it and will be getting the Moderna vaccine.5 -
Ok, that does have logistical issues then - of special storage facilities and separate locations to access it
I wonder why they dont all use the Moderna vaccine if that can be kept at regular vaccine temps.1 -
GummiMundi wrote: »Apparently, Europe is considering only giving the first dose of the vaccine on the premise that some protection for many is better than full protection for a few.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the frontline healthcare workers and elderly get full protection.
Where did you read that? I'm in Europe, and I've heard nothing about this.
It was in a DW News report.1 -
paperpudding wrote: »Ok, that does have logistical issues then - of special storage facilities and separate locations to access it
I wonder why they dont all use the Moderna vaccine if that can be kept at regular vaccine temps.
Supply.
If they could produce a sufficient quantity of a moderate-temp storable vaccine to administer to the same number of people in the same amount of time, they would. But inherently, they can't . . . because producing the two different vaccines each at maximum rate is more vaccine than producing one vaccine at maximum rate, for now at least. While the US is underperforming at doing it, the objective is to get as many people vaccinated as possible as quickly as possible, so it's worth going through some gyrations with temp-sensitive vaccines to accomplish that.16
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