Coronavirus prep
Replies
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snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Lining up for a repeat vaccine every 12 months would be no different to annual flu vaccine.
I don't see that as a big deal.
From what I've heard that's what it's going to be. May as well get used to it.
It'll be a big deal if we have to wear masks and/or continue to social distance in addition to getting a vaccine every 6-12 months. And since we are still being told we need to do those things in addition to getting the vaccine I find this very likely.
Plus how many people don't get the flu vaccine? Most of the people I know who work for companies who do not require it don't bother with it. Plus you can still get the flu even if you do take it since it's a virus and they mutate.
In general we were told that a vaccine would get us back to "normal" but people are realizing that is not the case and is unlikely to be the case. Maybe we can't get back to "normal" ever again, but we aren't even going to be close to normal and for many this isn't acceptable.
I currently don't have a plan to get the vaccine. I'm all for those who wanting it to get it, but for me there's too much unknown about it and I'd rather wait until we actually know the long term effects and efficiency before committing to it. Though as I work in healthcare, though not front lines, I have a feeling work will require it as they do the annual flu shot.
To the person who posted about California - California has some of the strictest restrictions in the US so what's the explanation for why there is such a severe breakout there? Here in IN we seem to have gone through an outbreak, but when the pt's are questioned they all say they are compliant. Physicians are commenting on the fact that anecdotally they are not seeing non-compliant people getting Covid. My sister in law's mom was hospitalized for Covid after Thanksgiving - she social distanced, wore a mask when leaving the house, and washed her hands all the time but her son brought it home from work (they live together). And he's hugely into following all the restrictions so he wore his mask, washed his hands etc and so did the person who spread the Covid. If we are following the guidelines and still getting Covid which is going to make continuing to follow these guidelines very difficult for some people as why are they going through this and losing their livihood for nothing?
We (currently) have to do these things in addition to getting vaccinated because there are still so many unvaccinated people. If you're right and people don't bother to take basic precautionary steps like getting vaccinated, then this may be more drawn out.
If things aren't going "back to normal" due to low vaccination rates and that's unacceptable, what's the alternate plan being proposed? There are people who are complaining about things like wearing masks AND they're complaining about the unknowns of vaccinations. What's the alternative exactly?21 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Lining up for a repeat vaccine every 12 months would be no different to annual flu vaccine.
I don't see that as a big deal.
From what I've heard that's what it's going to be. May as well get used to it.
It'll be a big deal if we have to wear masks and/or continue to social distance in addition to getting a vaccine every 6-12 months. And since we are still being told we need to do those things in addition to getting the vaccine I find this very likely.
Plus how many people don't get the flu vaccine? Most of the people I know who work for companies who do not require it don't bother with it. Plus you can still get the flu even if you do take it since it's a virus and they mutate.
In general we were told that a vaccine would get us back to "normal" but people are realizing that is not the case and is unlikely to be the case. Maybe we can't get back to "normal" ever again, but we aren't even going to be close to normal and for many this isn't acceptable.
I currently don't have a plan to get the vaccine. I'm all for those who wanting it to get it, but for me there's too much unknown about it and I'd rather wait until we actually know the long term effects and efficiency before committing to it. Though as I work in healthcare, though not front lines, I have a feeling work will require it as they do the annual flu shot.
To the person who posted about California - California has some of the strictest restrictions in the US so what's the explanation for why there is such a severe breakout there? Here in IN we seem to have gone through an outbreak, but when the pt's are questioned they all say they are compliant. Physicians are commenting on the fact that anecdotally they are not seeing non-compliant people getting Covid. My sister in law's mom was hospitalized for Covid after Thanksgiving - she social distanced, wore a mask when leaving the house, and washed her hands all the time but her son brought it home from work (they live together). And he's hugely into following all the restrictions so he wore his mask, washed his hands etc and so did the person who spread the Covid. If we are following the guidelines and still getting Covid which is going to make continuing to follow these guidelines very difficult for some people as why are they going through this and losing their livihood for nothing?
We (currently) have to do these things in addition to getting vaccinated because there are still so many unvaccinated people. If you're right and people don't bother to take basic precautionary steps like getting vaccinated, then this may be more drawn out.
If things aren't going "back to normal" due to low vaccination rates and that's unacceptable, what's the alternate plan being proposed? There are people who are complaining about things like wearing masks AND they're complaining about the unknowns of vaccinations. What's the alternative exactly?
At some point if it doesn't change I imagine people will just refuse to comply anymore honestly. As it is it's getting harder and harder to see an end point with all the new information that comes out. We were promised in March 2 weeks to slow the spread, then more and longer shut downs, mask mandates, social distancing requirements etc but only til a vaccine comes out so there was a light at the end of the tunnel. But now it's coming out that this isn't going to be the thing that lets us go back to normal, people getting vaccinated can't stop doing the guidelines (I get why, but that doesn't make it something anyone wants to do), and we are finding our hospitals overwhelmed even with following the rules. Do you really think this is sustainable for another year? Because it's being tossed around we won't be able to get more back to normal for another year - and then if we have to get the vaccine every year or 6 months will we continually have to go back to 2020 guidelines? How are people supposed to work or support themselves? What will we do to address the huge rise in mental health issues due to all this isolation? This is not sustainable for much longer.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Lining up for a repeat vaccine every 12 months would be no different to annual flu vaccine.
I don't see that as a big deal.
From what I've heard that's what it's going to be. May as well get used to it.
It'll be a big deal if we have to wear masks and/or continue to social distance in addition to getting a vaccine every 6-12 months. And since we are still being told we need to do those things in addition to getting the vaccine I find this very likely.
Plus how many people don't get the flu vaccine? Most of the people I know who work for companies who do not require it don't bother with it. Plus you can still get the flu even if you do take it since it's a virus and they mutate.
In general we were told that a vaccine would get us back to "normal" but people are realizing that is not the case and is unlikely to be the case. Maybe we can't get back to "normal" ever again, but we aren't even going to be close to normal and for many this isn't acceptable.
I currently don't have a plan to get the vaccine. I'm all for those who wanting it to get it, but for me there's too much unknown about it and I'd rather wait until we actually know the long term effects and efficiency before committing to it. Though as I work in healthcare, though not front lines, I have a feeling work will require it as they do the annual flu shot.
To the person who posted about California - California has some of the strictest restrictions in the US so what's the explanation for why there is such a severe breakout there? Here in IN we seem to have gone through an outbreak, but when the pt's are questioned they all say they are compliant. Physicians are commenting on the fact that anecdotally they are not seeing non-compliant people getting Covid. My sister in law's mom was hospitalized for Covid after Thanksgiving - she social distanced, wore a mask when leaving the house, and washed her hands all the time but her son brought it home from work (they live together). And he's hugely into following all the restrictions so he wore his mask, washed his hands etc and so did the person who spread the Covid. If we are following the guidelines and still getting Covid which is going to make continuing to follow these guidelines very difficult for some people as why are they going through this and losing their livihood for nothing?
We (currently) have to do these things in addition to getting vaccinated because there are still so many unvaccinated people. If you're right and people don't bother to take basic precautionary steps like getting vaccinated, then this may be more drawn out.
If things aren't going "back to normal" due to low vaccination rates and that's unacceptable, what's the alternate plan being proposed? There are people who are complaining about things like wearing masks AND they're complaining about the unknowns of vaccinations. What's the alternative exactly?
At some point if it doesn't change I imagine people will just refuse to comply anymore honestly. As it is it's getting harder and harder to see an end point with all the new information that comes out. We were promised in March 2 weeks to slow the spread, then more and longer shut downs, mask mandates, social distancing requirements etc but only til a vaccine comes out so there was a light at the end of the tunnel. But now it's coming out that this isn't going to be the thing that lets us go back to normal, people getting vaccinated can't stop doing the guidelines (I get why, but that doesn't make it something anyone wants to do), and we are finding our hospitals overwhelmed even with following the rules. Do you really think this is sustainable for another year? Because it's being tossed around we won't be able to get more back to normal for another year - and then if we have to get the vaccine every year or 6 months will we continually have to go back to 2020 guidelines? How are people supposed to work or support themselves? What will we do to address the huge rise in mental health issues due to all this isolation? This is not sustainable for much longer.
Nobody promised me two weeks, so I'm not sure where that is coming from. Even when we were being told that we were looking at a month or two, there were (very loud) people who were vocalizing their unwillingness to comply, people who had to be forced to wear masks, people who were doing everything they could to show that they didn't want to change their behavior. That's why this is dragging out, because we never agreed as a society to give it our best shot.
If people refuse to comply and refuse to get vaccinated, that would be truly unfortunate, but the past few months of shown me some of us have really overestimated how much others will consider the more vulnerable among us.
The hospitals aren't overwhelmed WITH us following the rules. They're overwhelmed because people are still having large gatherings like weddings or family dinners, because they're vacationing, because they think the rules don't apply to them or because they're just sick of following the rules.
I have no doubt there are some people who are sick of following the guidelines. I'm pretty sick of them myself (although I will continue to do it). But if the alternative is for people to reject the vaccination and for us to give up on stopping any spread, that's not a viable option.26 -
In Indiana at the start the whole thing was 2 weeks to slow the spread - and then they kept extending it. When I go out places here everyone I see is wearing a mask and physicians are reporting both to pts and in their progress notes that the pt is compliant with the current guidelines. My sister in law's mother said when she was in the hospital her doctor said all his patients had reported following guidelines. Around here we have a few families who would normally have full driveways and cars on the street around the holidays which were completely absent this year - I'm not convinced that this new surge in cases is because of non-compliant people but instead that these measures don't really work as advertised and only serve to make us feel better and like we are doing something.
Regardless this isn't sustainable since we are in month 9-10 with no end in sight.7 -
In Indiana at the start the whole thing was 2 weeks to slow the spread - and then they kept extending it. When I go out places here everyone I see is wearing a mask and physicians are reporting both to pts and in their progress notes that the pt is compliant with the current guidelines. My sister in law's mother said when she was in the hospital her doctor said all his patients had reported following guidelines. Around here we have a few families who would normally have full driveways and cars on the street around the holidays which were completely absent this year - I'm not convinced that this new surge in cases is because of non-compliant people but instead that these measures don't really work as advertised and only serve to make us feel better and like we are doing something.
Regardless this isn't sustainable since we are in month 9-10 with no end in sight.
How many threads do you see on this site where people can't lose weight while eating 1200 calories. And generally the answer is that they are not eating 1200 calories. People are not good at self reporting behavior. My mother will tell you she is compliant, and she believes it. But she isn't.
It's still possible to get Covid even though you wear a mask and try to social distance. It's not 100 percent effective. But if you're saying only compliant people are getting it, that's ridiculous.
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snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Lining up for a repeat vaccine every 12 months would be no different to annual flu vaccine.
I don't see that as a big deal.
From what I've heard that's what it's going to be. May as well get used to it.
It'll be a big deal if we have to wear masks and/or continue to social distance in addition to getting a vaccine every 6-12 months. And since we are still being told we need to do those things in addition to getting the vaccine I find this very likely.
Plus how many people don't get the flu vaccine? Most of the people I know who work for companies who do not require it don't bother with it. Plus you can still get the flu even if you do take it since it's a virus and they mutate.
In general we were told that a vaccine would get us back to "normal" but people are realizing that is not the case and is unlikely to be the case. Maybe we can't get back to "normal" ever again, but we aren't even going to be close to normal and for many this isn't acceptable.
I currently don't have a plan to get the vaccine. I'm all for those who wanting it to get it, but for me there's too much unknown about it and I'd rather wait until we actually know the long term effects and efficiency before committing to it. Though as I work in healthcare, though not front lines, I have a feeling work will require it as they do the annual flu shot.
To the person who posted about California - California has some of the strictest restrictions in the US so what's the explanation for why there is such a severe breakout there? Here in IN we seem to have gone through an outbreak, but when the pt's are questioned they all say they are compliant. Physicians are commenting on the fact that anecdotally they are not seeing non-compliant people getting Covid. My sister in law's mom was hospitalized for Covid after Thanksgiving - she social distanced, wore a mask when leaving the house, and washed her hands all the time but her son brought it home from work (they live together). And he's hugely into following all the restrictions so he wore his mask, washed his hands etc and so did the person who spread the Covid. If we are following the guidelines and still getting Covid which is going to make continuing to follow these guidelines very difficult for some people as why are they going through this and losing their livihood for nothing?
CA has been, from day one, following the CDCs advice. AZ has not. Twice as many people have died in AZ as in CA per capita. The numbers don't lie. This, despite the fact that CA has some of the most compact population centers in the country. The governor of CA has saved lives. Wish I could say the same for the governor of AZ, who can't even set the example and put on a mask for a press conference.
Schools are opening back up here. Gyms are open. Hell, I went by a movie theatre the other day that was open. And we have the worst new cases in the world. Yet folks like you are still anti-science and anti-masking.
Worked out so well for N Dakota and S Dakota -- two states that are now in the top five for deaths per capita, which is insane considering how rural the states are. Both led by "individual freedom" governors that didn't want to listen to the CDC.
The East Coast states didn't know what hit them. That's why they were hit so hard initially. But there's been no excuse for some of the other states in the US. There's also a reason Ohio is better than Indiana. One governor put restrictions in place, the other didn't.
Sorry, I'm losing patience with anti-science, anti-common sense.
The "this isn't sustainable" part applies in two areas -- healthcare and the rest of the regular business areas. Pick your poison. If you just say, let's all go maskless and do whatever, the hospitals will just say, "go home and die". Is that sustainable? You don't seem to have many answers for that.
We are between a rock and a hard place. Spouting how everyone will just go back to regular out of frustration doesn't help. We know some of them will, but with time, more vaccines and more exposure, it will get gradually better. No one is going to wave a wand and make it all go away.
And as far as people reporting they followed "guidelines" -- many go to eat in restaurants and eat inside or go to the gyms -- exactly the stuff that, under political pressure, has been allowed, not only for economic reasons, but also to keep people like yourself from throwing a temper tantrum.30 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Lining up for a repeat vaccine every 12 months would be no different to annual flu vaccine.
I don't see that as a big deal.
From what I've heard that's what it's going to be. May as well get used to it.
It'll be a big deal if we have to wear masks and/or continue to social distance in addition to getting a vaccine every 6-12 months. And since we are still being told we need to do those things in addition to getting the vaccine I find this very likely.
Plus how many people don't get the flu vaccine? Most of the people I know who work for companies who do not require it don't bother with it. Plus you can still get the flu even if you do take it since it's a virus and they mutate.
In general we were told that a vaccine would get us back to "normal" but people are realizing that is not the case and is unlikely to be the case. Maybe we can't get back to "normal" ever again, but we aren't even going to be close to normal and for many this isn't acceptable.
I currently don't have a plan to get the vaccine. I'm all for those who wanting it to get it, but for me there's too much unknown about it and I'd rather wait until we actually know the long term effects and efficiency before committing to it. Though as I work in healthcare, though not front lines, I have a feeling work will require it as they do the annual flu shot.
To the person who posted about California - California has some of the strictest restrictions in the US so what's the explanation for why there is such a severe breakout there? Here in IN we seem to have gone through an outbreak, but when the pt's are questioned they all say they are compliant. Physicians are commenting on the fact that anecdotally they are not seeing non-compliant people getting Covid. My sister in law's mom was hospitalized for Covid after Thanksgiving - she social distanced, wore a mask when leaving the house, and washed her hands all the time but her son brought it home from work (they live together). And he's hugely into following all the restrictions so he wore his mask, washed his hands etc and so did the person who spread the Covid. If we are following the guidelines and still getting Covid which is going to make continuing to follow these guidelines very difficult for some people as why are they going through this and losing their livihood for nothing?
We (currently) have to do these things in addition to getting vaccinated because there are still so many unvaccinated people. If you're right and people don't bother to take basic precautionary steps like getting vaccinated, then this may be more drawn out.
If things aren't going "back to normal" due to low vaccination rates and that's unacceptable, what's the alternate plan being proposed? There are people who are complaining about things like wearing masks AND they're complaining about the unknowns of vaccinations. What's the alternative exactly?
At some point if it doesn't change I imagine people will just refuse to comply anymore honestly. As it is it's getting harder and harder to see an end point with all the new information that comes out. We were promised in March 2 weeks to slow the spread, then more and longer shut downs, mask mandates, social distancing requirements etc but only til a vaccine comes out so there was a light at the end of the tunnel. But now it's coming out that this isn't going to be the thing that lets us go back to normal, people getting vaccinated can't stop doing the guidelines (I get why, but that doesn't make it something anyone wants to do), and we are finding our hospitals overwhelmed even with following the rules. Do you really think this is sustainable for another year? Because it's being tossed around we won't be able to get more back to normal for another year - and then if we have to get the vaccine every year or 6 months will we continually have to go back to 2020 guidelines? How are people supposed to work or support themselves? What will we do to address the huge rise in mental health issues due to all this isolation? This is not sustainable for much longer.
Never heard anyone promise anything about 2 weeks to slow the spread...just looking at what was going on in the world around us at that time would have made any such promise ridiculous, and even the CDC said any notion of just two weeks was ridiculous.
We aren't really going to get back to "normal" until there is herd immunity...that will involve many people being vaccinated as well as infected and recovered individuals having some immunity. Herd immunity isn't 100% immunity...it's a high enough portion of the population having some kind of immunity as to have lesser symptoms if they get sick and prevention of many others not getting sick at all, to the point where the virus doesn't can be managed in regards to hospital capacity and resources, etc.
The notion that the vaccine would roll out and everything would be instantly back to normal is ridiculous as it is so very few people right now...so yeah...people have to wear a mask in public and socially distance...I personally don't think that is such a great burden to go to the store and not be up in someone's grill.23 -
janejellyroll wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Lining up for a repeat vaccine every 12 months would be no different to annual flu vaccine.
I don't see that as a big deal.
From what I've heard that's what it's going to be. May as well get used to it.
It'll be a big deal if we have to wear masks and/or continue to social distance in addition to getting a vaccine every 6-12 months. And since we are still being told we need to do those things in addition to getting the vaccine I find this very likely.
Plus how many people don't get the flu vaccine? Most of the people I know who work for companies who do not require it don't bother with it. Plus you can still get the flu even if you do take it since it's a virus and they mutate.
In general we were told that a vaccine would get us back to "normal" but people are realizing that is not the case and is unlikely to be the case. Maybe we can't get back to "normal" ever again, but we aren't even going to be close to normal and for many this isn't acceptable.
I currently don't have a plan to get the vaccine. I'm all for those who wanting it to get it, but for me there's too much unknown about it and I'd rather wait until we actually know the long term effects and efficiency before committing to it. Though as I work in healthcare, though not front lines, I have a feeling work will require it as they do the annual flu shot.
To the person who posted about California - California has some of the strictest restrictions in the US so what's the explanation for why there is such a severe breakout there? Here in IN we seem to have gone through an outbreak, but when the pt's are questioned they all say they are compliant. Physicians are commenting on the fact that anecdotally they are not seeing non-compliant people getting Covid. My sister in law's mom was hospitalized for Covid after Thanksgiving - she social distanced, wore a mask when leaving the house, and washed her hands all the time but her son brought it home from work (they live together). And he's hugely into following all the restrictions so he wore his mask, washed his hands etc and so did the person who spread the Covid. If we are following the guidelines and still getting Covid which is going to make continuing to follow these guidelines very difficult for some people as why are they going through this and losing their livihood for nothing?
We (currently) have to do these things in addition to getting vaccinated because there are still so many unvaccinated people. If you're right and people don't bother to take basic precautionary steps like getting vaccinated, then this may be more drawn out.
If things aren't going "back to normal" due to low vaccination rates and that's unacceptable, what's the alternate plan being proposed? There are people who are complaining about things like wearing masks AND they're complaining about the unknowns of vaccinations. What's the alternative exactly?
At some point if it doesn't change I imagine people will just refuse to comply anymore honestly. As it is it's getting harder and harder to see an end point with all the new information that comes out. We were promised in March 2 weeks to slow the spread, then more and longer shut downs, mask mandates, social distancing requirements etc but only til a vaccine comes out so there was a light at the end of the tunnel. But now it's coming out that this isn't going to be the thing that lets us go back to normal, people getting vaccinated can't stop doing the guidelines (I get why, but that doesn't make it something anyone wants to do), and we are finding our hospitals overwhelmed even with following the rules. Do you really think this is sustainable for another year? Because it's being tossed around we won't be able to get more back to normal for another year - and then if we have to get the vaccine every year or 6 months will we continually have to go back to 2020 guidelines? How are people supposed to work or support themselves? What will we do to address the huge rise in mental health issues due to all this isolation? This is not sustainable for much longer.
You know, you've been on here before with lots of questions but never any answers or propositions other than --just let nature take it's course. Other countries that have done that are now in desperate straights and are bringing in tight controls. So, that doesn't seem like a solution to me. Have you got one?
Mankind has been in difficult conditions before and has always managed to pull through. Many times with a great deal of suffering. You don't want to suffer. Neither do I. But right now we're all just doing the best we can. As for getting vaccinated every year, or a booster, I'm 66. I get a flu shot every year. I'll just do the COVID one too, if that's what it takes to stay alive, and that's what we're talking about.21 -
@kushiel1 -- there was a local nurse that was new to Tucson. She would argue with anyone on Facebook or local media about how she knew, by being a nurse, that masks did nothing. She got pretty infamous around my area.
She died last week from Covid. She was in her 40s. She had preexisting conditions and would tell anyone that would listen how it was just the cold or the flu.18 -
I get most people don't like what I have to say and that's fine. But I do think that people accusing someone of being anti-masking or anti-science and accusing them of throwing a temper tantrum is not only not appropriate for an adult (remember a little kindness goes a long way and you don't have to respond if you don't like what someone said), but emblematic of the problem in our society today. Attacking people should NEVER be ok, and lets face it people do that all the time in this thread even if they don't use a specific name in the comment.
I took a long break from this thread and wish I had not come back because it just reminds me of how mean people are to those who think differently than what is considered acceptable to think.
And to think I once upon a time thought this would be a great community
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I get most people don't like what I have to say and that's fine. But I do think that people accusing someone of being anti-masking or anti-science and accusing them of throwing a temper tantrum is not only not appropriate for an adult (remember a little kindness goes a long way and you don't have to respond if you don't like what someone said), but emblematic of the problem in our society today. Attacking people should NEVER be ok, and lets face it people do that all the time in this thread even if they don't use a specific name in the comment.
I took a long break from this thread and wish I had not come back because it just reminds me of how mean people are to those who think differently than what is considered acceptable to think.
And to think I once upon a time thought this would be a great community
I repeat myself--give us your solution. And please don't hide behind "Oh, you're all so mean".22 -
I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
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I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?12 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?5 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?11 -
I live in Minnesota. I think the situation here may be a good example. Lock down last spring as it was many places. Restrictions eased in early summer. Covid got increasingly worse into fall. Early November, our governor went back to early lockdown restrictions. We steadily improved over this time and on Monday, restrictions were eased. We shall see what happens in the coming days.
Face coverings, social distancing, and good hand washing techniques work for slowing the spread. No one ever said it prevents from getting it, just helps slow the spread. It’s something everyone can do. I would guess no one really enjoys it, but it’s for the common good, showing respect for others. I see no good reason not to comply. It’s little enough that can be done by us to help those across the world caring for the sickest covid patients.16 -
I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
AZ can't ease any more than they have. They are the fastest spreading place in the world right now. Indiana and N and S Dakota can't ease any more.
What's being restricted, other than wearing a mask and limiting occupancy?
BTW, I have this same discussion with my daughter. She's like, "why can't we just go back to how it used to be?". She's super intelligent and compassionate and depressed right now. Probably a lot like you. But right now, she's also not talking sense.
I didn't mean to be so "mean". I'm just frustrated. What do you want to have happen that isn't already happening? Many states have gone completely out of their way for individual rights and have, as a direct result, had more deaths. So what more do you want?
I'm sorry if I came across as too harsh or mean. I'm just frustrated, like you.16 -
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
So far it doesn't appear to be widespread but I suspect they have to do more testing/sequencing to know for sure
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/01/07/cdc-reports-22-california-cases-of-coronavirus-variant-first-identified-in-uk/
Most likely the spread is from the holiday family and friend gatherings (as was mentioned earlier on the thread).
5 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?
Yes. That's why the original plan was to hold on to half the doses so people could be fully immunized on schedule. Now they have switched to giving more people the first half and worrying about the second dose later. Unfortunately, a lot of people may decide not to go back for the second dose given long lines and limited supply.2 -
snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
Hope your friend gets better.
I'm a bit confused with your post though. You say your friend's only health issue was acid reflux. Now he has a lot of new medications for his heart problem. Did he develop a heart problem while he was in the hospital with Covid? It sounds like he had a heart problem before Covid which by definition would be a comorbidity that from your post he was on medication for prior to contracting Covid. Now on additional meds.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
Hope your friend gets better.
I'm a bit confused with your post though. You say your friend's only health issue was acid reflux. Now he has a lot of new medications for his heart problem. Did he develop a heart problem while he was in the hospital with Covid? It sounds like he had a heart problem before Covid which by definition would be a comorbidity that from your post he was on medication for prior to contracting Covid. Now on additional meds.
He developed heart problems after being hospitalized.11 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »snowflake954 wrote: »I'm not sure there is a solution honestly - there are no good solutions with Covid. But there's more going on than just Covid because of Covid restrictions and guidelines. Kids are falling behind in school, mental health issues are on the rise, violence seems to be on the rise (though that probably can't be completely laid at the feet of Covid) etc. Maybe we need to isolate our most at risk and then try easing restrictions and see what happens - certainly don't want anyone to die, but suicides are on the rise so...
And are you really saying that because I say something others don't like and I can't offer a concrete solution to the problem that I deserve people being mean to me? That's just wrong and emblematic of the issues of our current society.
No, I'm saying that people aren't being mean to you--they disagree with you as you disagree with them. I don't think you're mean, but you go round and round in circles--kids in school, mental health, violence...... You admit that there's no good solution. So, I take it you think vunerable people should isolate themselves and everyone else just pretends COVID doesn't exist? Is that correct?
And what counts as a vulnerable person? I know someone who is 50, only health issue was acid reflux, he just got out of 3 weeks in hospital with covid. Now he is home on oxygen, has to use a walker and lots of new medications for his heart problem. Native Americans are getting hit hard with this; should they all have to isolate?
Another person lost their sense of smell. The FIRST thing they did was run to Walgreens for vitamins...while symptomatic with a highly contagious disease. Is it any wonder this isn't controlled?
Regarding California: I wonder how wide-spread the UK variant is there and if that is contributing to the surge in cases?
Hope your friend gets better.
I'm a bit confused with your post though. You say your friend's only health issue was acid reflux. Now he has a lot of new medications for his heart problem. Did he develop a heart problem while he was in the hospital with Covid? It sounds like he had a heart problem before Covid which by definition would be a comorbidity that from your post he was on medication for prior to contracting Covid. Now on additional meds.
Many recovered COVID patients are showing heart damage that wasn't there before. The last time I looked, they were finding myocardial inflammation in about 60% of recovered patients. This happened to my former boss...super fit guy with no underlying conditions...he had COVID back in late August/early Sept and he's still having issues with myocardial inflammation18 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?
I admit, I don't have a really clear picture, but locally they seem to be coordinating the "2nd dose" group somewhat differently from the "first dose" people. (And I do know that procedures differ from state to state, and in some cases even by smaller governmental units. Here, the governmental efforts for vaccination delivery seem to be at the county level, with hospital systems and even big retail pharmacies starting to create waiting lists that seem to be in parallel with the county health department's.)
I have a very few friends, and friends of friends, who've shared comments about their experiences on social media. The people who've gotten vaccinated through their employer (like employees of health care entities) are getting their second doses, and seem to have gotten firm appointments for dose 2 at the time they got dose 1. (That doesn't tell us, of course, whether doses were held in reserve for them, vs. coming out of new supply delivery flow.)
The first of the older/high risk public have begun getting vaccinated, and seem to have a firm date or separate process to schedule the 2nd dose, i.e., they aren't being told to go back in the same virtual line as people getting the first dose. Again, no idea how supply's being handled behind the scenes, but I'd infer from what's been said that the 2nd dose group is at least getting a priority on supplies to get the 2nd dose on the proper timing, vs. being in a more general queue of others.
But, like I said, I'm just going from what people I know happened to mention, and what the local health department has communicated.
I think they're doing a decent job, given the situation, with communications. Friends on social media seem to be increasing confusion by fussing about questions (to their friends), but not bothering to follow the health department's social media communications, or use reasonable means to ask the health department questions. (Phoning them with general questions is not reasonable right now, IMO, as phone lines are limited. Email or social media would be reasonable, but probably won't y ield immediate or personal answers, and people are impatient.)6 -
Many recovered COVID patients are showing heart damage that wasn't there before. The last time I looked, they were finding myocardial inflammation in about 60% of recovered patients. This happened to my former boss...super fit guy with no underlying conditions...he had COVID back in late August/early Sept and he's still having issues with myocardial inflammation
I have a friend who had it last spring. She has a dog walking business and was used to walking miles per day. She has been having a lot of trouble resuming her old schedule. She just doesn't feel like she can get a good breath, like there is pressure on her chest, and she gets wiped out if she has a very active day and gets "confusion" when tired. She's had the tests and there's supposedly nothing wrong with her heart or lungs that they can find.
17 -
For a bit of good news, our dear friends down the street, who are 77, got their first shot today.
Just one more item about the economy and it being shut down for Covid -- people are mostly assuming jobs are being lost due to restrictions to prevent Covid. Many I'm talking to (as a recruiter) are losing jobs because Covid is out of control.
My daughter lost her job -- she sold cyber security to hospitals in Ohio, whose budgets are shot now with the Covid onslaught. They are losing money because they can't do the more profitable elective surgeries. My son, on the other hand, lost his job because he couldn't sell solar door to door in CA any longer. I also just placed a woman in Chicago this week that worked for a non-profit healthcare group that had to lay off 200 employees because of the Covid surge there (not because of restrictions). Just as many, or I'd say more, of the layoffs are happening because we failed to contain it, not because of overreaching restrictions.
Fortunately, I guess out of necessity, there have also been jobs created because of Covid -- Peloton, Zoom, Home Depot, Krogers, Amazon for instance, all have excelled during it. Not that I think that's a good thing, but everything shouldn't be blamed on restrictions to prevent it.21 -
@MikePfirrman Spot on!3
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I saw an interview the other day on DW news where a doctor was explaining that it was important for recovering long covid patients not to exceed their exertion window. The example given was if you can run 30 minutes, but only 20 before you feel any strain, stop at 20. He said patients who push themselves recover more slowly.12
-
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Just my opinion but I think the problem is this needed to be organized from the top down and it wasn't. And I'd bet some states assumed it would be and we're caught unprepared when it wasn't.
The doctor who gives updates on This Week in Virology works at one of the larger NYC hospitals (I forget which one). He said they were notified back in Nov that they were on the list to get a certain amount of vials for staff vaccinations. So they put a plan together and waited to get more info on timing. And waited. And then 1200 doses of vaccine just showed up on their loading dock one Tues morning in Jan. They had to scramble to look at staff schedules and dept occupancy to come up with a schedule right there on the spot. Luckily they were well organized and they banged out the jabs, but a less well prepared organization might not have been ready.
I agree,they need to get creative getting in trained personnel to administer the shots and less picky about who their giving them to.9 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »For a bit of good news, our dear friends down the street, who are 77, got their first shot today.
Just one more item about the economy and it being shut down for Covid -- people are mostly assuming jobs are being lost due to restrictions to prevent Covid. Many I'm talking to (as a recruiter) are losing jobs because Covid is out of control.
My daughter lost her job -- she sold cyber security to hospitals in Ohio, whose budgets are shot now with the Covid onslaught. They are losing money because they can't do the more profitable elective surgeries. My son, on the other hand, lost his job because he couldn't sell solar door to door in CA any longer. I also just placed a woman in Chicago this week that worked for a non-profit healthcare group that had to lay off 200 employees because of the Covid surge there (not because of restrictions). Just as many, or I'd say more, of the layoffs are happening because we failed to contain it, not because of overreaching restrictions.
Fortunately, I guess out of necessity, there have also been jobs created because of Covid -- Peloton, Zoom, Home Depot, Krogers, Amazon for instance, all have excelled during it. Not that I think that's a good thing, but everything shouldn't be blamed on restrictions to prevent it.
I think hospitals losing money/laying people off is a combination of BOTH those things. Back in spring when this first started the large hospital chain I work for stopped elective procedures because there was a fear of overloading the system and not having space or staff for Covid patients. Then...they didn't get that huge influx of patients they were expecting. For instance my chain usually had anywhere from 1000 to 1200 people IP at a time (over many hospitals) but in covid we were often at half that. That hit them hard that they couldn't do all those elective procedures that really pay the bills and instead were left with hospital censuses that didn't come near what was expected leading to far less money coming in. And now of course there has been an increase in hospitalizations (both those that are customary this time of year and Covid) and they are having to delay those elective procedures that really pay the bills again because they need to save some space for just in case. The restrictions at the begining put a money crunch on many hospitals and that's being exacerbated now leading to some tough choices to be made.4 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I don't understand why the vaccine rollout is so terrible. Sounds like some places have extra doses while other places don't have enough. I feel like the phased approach is holding things back in places with extra doses. Those places where they have enough vaccine, but can't give it to anyone because they haven't been told to go on to the next phase yet. Someone needs to take inventory and just get these shots to people. Maybe deploy the national guards and train them to give injections. 100K soildiers working 12 hrs per day would have these vaccines done much sooner. Only question is supply to do that.
Kind of makes one wonder.... who is coordinating supply for the second doses in 3 or 4 weeks (depending on brand)? Will second dose patients be competing with first dose patients?
Supposedly both Pfizer and Moderna have said supply is ramping up really well and won't be an issue. Take that for what it's worth. The 3 week and 4 week timeline is just a minimum, you can go quite a bit longer if you need to or just forget, if it comes to that. Now they just have to figure out how to get the vaccine out of the vial into an arm faster.
There also "should" be another vaccine (or two) ready to apply for approval soon, and if that happens many of us who have to wait might be assigned to get one of those, to allow Pfizer & Moderna to be used for second doses.
Anyway, "they" keep saying they don't expect supply to be an issue, that it can keep up with however fast shots can be administered, hopefully they are right
7
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