Coronavirus prep
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paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.3 -
paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
If you want to spend the time and money, come over to New Zealand and get the Pfizer. The Prime Minister has stated that people in the country illegally are welcome to get vaccinated so I don't see why tourists can't either. You have pretty much the whole year to organise it.
Are NZ to Australia borders open?
Me personally, - No,too late, already had first dose of AZ
(yes in Australia too , the vaccine is open to everyone who meets the criteria - Australian resident or not)
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I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
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paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.9 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.
Canada pre-ordered enough doses of various vaccines to inoculate our population many times over. While right now we don’t have an option, certain ones are available to certain groups, I suspect that if someone refuses AZ that at some point in time they will be able to get something else. Maybe I’m wrong but that is the impression I got. And people here are refusing AZ so if the government wants everyone vaccinated they are gonna have to give them something else eventually.
We have 4 approved right now - delivery is only consistent with Pfizer and AZ at the moment.1 -
I wouldn't be booking anything overseas anywhere for now. There is no guarantee Aussies will be allowed into NZ anytime soon. Only time will tell. Could be a long time yet.
Also I find it crazy sports people are playing still if they aren't 100% sure they don't have Covid. Really. Dumb. Who are the nut jobs in charge that are allowing it to happen without properly testing everyone? Guess money is more important than a couple of weeks off beforehand to make sure everyone is safe. I feel sorry for their families more than anything since they'll be catching it off the players.
Players are supposed to be self-quarantining with their families when not with the team, and are tested I believe every time they show up at practice facilities or the rink. But the tests take several hours and meanwhile the player is with the team. But yeah, it's ridiculous to think hundreds of young men are going to behave perfectly and not take any risks. I think they all accepted that there would be some spread during the season. There have been a couple of minor outbreaks, but I think this one is worse because of the variant. The first to test positive was asymptomatic but was already participating in practice when the positive test came back, and it's snowballed from there.
I don't remember if the NHL planned a bubble for the playoffs or not, but it would be a good idea.3 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.
Canada pre-ordered enough doses of various vaccines to inoculate our population many times over. While right now we don’t have an option, certain ones are available to certain groups, I suspect that if someone refuses AZ that at some point in time they will be able to get something else. Maybe I’m wrong but that is the impression I got. And people here are refusing AZ so if the government wants everyone vaccinated they are gonna have to give them something else eventually.
We have 4 approved right now - delivery is only consistent with Pfizer and AZ at the moment.
We’re in the same boat regarding consistent deliveries, then, and also the amount of pre-ordered doses being significantly higher than what’s needed to cover the population. I’m really hoping we’ll start getting consistent J&J deliveries in April to boost vaccinating younger populations with Pfizer and J&J while continuing AZ for older population without the blood clot risks.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.
Canada pre-ordered enough doses of various vaccines to inoculate our population many times over. While right now we don’t have an option, certain ones are available to certain groups, I suspect that if someone refuses AZ that at some point in time they will be able to get something else. Maybe I’m wrong but that is the impression I got. And people here are refusing AZ so if the government wants everyone vaccinated they are gonna have to give them something else eventually.
We have 4 approved right now - delivery is only consistent with Pfizer and AZ at the moment.
Locally we have two vaccination sites, one for the public and one for occupational groups. I believe both are administering Pfizer. We did get some supply of Moderna but that went out to remote areas due to storage restrictions with the Pfizer one.
Very recently, four pharmacies have started taking appointment bookings for 55+ with the A-Z. Although I am eligible in that age category, I am choosing not to book an appointment. I'll wait until the public health site opens appointments for a group that I qualify in, either by occupation or by age. I prefer 0 risk to even very very low risk.
I find it interesting that I wouldn't even be considered for the A-Z in Finland since I'm under 65.3 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
From Finland point of view: Moderna and Johnson&Johnson apparently medically approved, but Moderna (approved in January) availability issues are so severe that Helsinki and nearby cities don’t even list it as something they are using, they only mention Pfizer and AZ. I don’t think any other vaccine options are medically approved yet. Latest news about Johnson&Johnson (approved mid-March) say deliveries might start in April.
The one thing medical officers are adamant about is that absolutely zero corners are cut when considering medical approvals, even if they’re done at an accelerated pace. So, to answer your argument: the government absolutely will say ”this is all we have” if Pfizer and AZ are the only medically approved vaccines we can get due to availability issues. The fact that Moderna technically exists and is approved doesn’t really help any public health official or any citizen or make it available when there’s not enough production/logistics and nobody is delivering it to the country no matter what is ordered (2 million doses). Same with Johnson&Johnson, even though it wasn’t approved until a couple of weeks ago and I think we’re still within a reasonable window between approval and delivery.
Canada pre-ordered enough doses of various vaccines to inoculate our population many times over. While right now we don’t have an option, certain ones are available to certain groups, I suspect that if someone refuses AZ that at some point in time they will be able to get something else. Maybe I’m wrong but that is the impression I got. And people here are refusing AZ so if the government wants everyone vaccinated they are gonna have to give them something else eventually.
We have 4 approved right now - delivery is only consistent with Pfizer and AZ at the moment.
Locally we have two vaccination sites, one for the public and one for occupational groups. I believe both are administering Pfizer. We did get some supply of Moderna but that went out to remote areas due to storage restrictions with the Pfizer one.
Very recently, four pharmacies have started taking appointment bookings for 55+ with the A-Z. Although I am eligible in that age category, I am choosing not to book an appointment. I'll wait until the public health site opens appointments for a group that I qualify in, either by occupation or by age. I prefer 0 risk to even very very low risk.
I find it interesting that I wouldn't even be considered for the A-Z in Finland since I'm under 65.
Yeah a lot of countries are using 60 as a cut off I was wondering about that too. I am 55 - I’ve already had Pfizer but if I didn’t I’d be right on the cut off for AZ which isn’t super reassuring.0 -
So I saw something interesting today. I have been waiting to get some of my annual procedures done until my vaccines are complete so I had my mammogram scheduled along with an ultrasound of my thyroid for about 3 weeks after my 2nd Pfizer jab. Now I am reading that I might want to delay the mammogram as it is possible my lymph nodes might be swollen for up to 6-8 weeks after the second shot causing false issues with the scans. I am still on the fence as to whether I will reschedule or not and will most likely wait to see how symptomatic the 2nd shot is for me. The other option was to make sure to tell them when you get the mammogram that you recently had the injection and into which arm so they could take that into account if there were swollen lymph nodes.4
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SummerSkier wrote: »So I saw something interesting today. I have been waiting to get some of my annual procedures done until my vaccines are complete so I had my mammogram scheduled along with an ultrasound of my thyroid for about 3 weeks after my 2nd Pfizer jab. Now I am reading that I might want to delay the mammogram as it is possible my lymph nodes might be swollen for up to 6-8 weeks after the second shot causing false issues with the scans. I am still on the fence as to whether I will reschedule or not and will most likely wait to see how symptomatic the 2nd shot is for me. The other option was to make sure to tell them when you get the mammogram that you recently had the injection and into which arm so they could take that into account if there were swollen lymph nodes.
While it makes sense to tell them, I wouldn't be surprised if there could be lymph nodes enlarged elsewhere, not just near the arm where the shot went in, though I'm guessing. (Some of the axillary nodes closest to the injection site may not even be imaged.) Also, while an enlarged node can be a sign of concern for breast cancer, it's also characteristic for actual cancer in the breast to be "cancer-y looking" in particular ways that affect the radiologist's evaluation.
Even so, of course some cases are atypical, should be followed up, but the first stages of follow up (other than the freak-out) aren't IMO all that awful. Often, it's more mammo views, or a different type of scan (like breast ultrasound). At a lower likelihood, it can be something like a fine-needle biopsy, which IMO wasn't particularly painful or scary as a procedure (though I say that as a person not generally distressed about needles, so I know that makes a difference).
Something like 80% of initially suspicious or ambiguous mammograms, ones that require follow-up, are not malignancies. Odds of any given woman going through some of the extra steps at some time in her life are pretty high.
Personally, I wouldn't delay the mammo, and I'd always encourage women not to be super-stressed over a call back for further evaluations.
I'm not a medical professional, though, just a survivor of advanced breast cancer who went through the whole process, and was trained to be a peer-support volunteer for people in treatment. (Yeah, people. Men get breast cancer, too.)12 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
The reason Pfizer is only being given through hospital hubs to phase1a criteria people is because of the storage requirements of minus 70 degrees
So, No, I don't think it will become available for more people - since the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated at Dr's surgeries or pharmacies - therefore with AZ which has normal vaccine storage requirements - ie such places with pre existing storage and management of other vaccines can run it
It is possible other brands will be available down the track, who knows - but there is no suggestion of that now and as the situation stands and is likely to stand for the foreseeable future, people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand.6 -
I did my first sort-of post-vax thing, I think coloring slightly outside the lines of the CDC recommendations, even (unlike me).
I was inside someone's house, without a mask, for the first time since the pandemic started involving guidelines & restrictions here, i.e., since March 2020. Some very good out of town friends (married couple) were at their cottage here, and I haven't seen them in person (brief driveway visit) since December 2020. They're both more than 2 weeks past 2nd vaccinations, and have continued being very cautious about masks/isolating. I'm not *quite* 2 weeks past vaccination #2 (it's been about 9 days), and have been quite cautious.
I'd been mulling things over knowing they'd be in town, wanting to see them; even talked it over with a very level headed, smart, retired RN friend. My friends were caring, totally open to fully masked visit, but did want to show me around their condo. (I've been there lots, but may stay there while some work is done at my place, so they wanted to show me some technical stuff about utilities & such.)
I went and picked up take-out for all of us. It was a lovely day, so mostly we ate outside on the deck, but did spend some time inside without masks afterwards. I was worried that I'd feel twitchy, even after having decided it was OK enough, but it was fine.
Really nice, even. I don't feel worried, but am watching to see if it ends up being fine, as I expect.15 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
The reason Pfizer is only being given through hospital hubs to phase1a criteria people is because of the storage requirements of minus 70 degrees
So, No, I don't think it will become available for more people - since the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated at Dr's surgeries or pharmacies - therefore with AZ which has normal vaccine storage requirements - ie such places with pre existing storage and management of other vaccines can run it
It is possible other brands will be available down the track, who knows - but there is no suggestion of that now and as the situation stands and is likely to stand for the foreseeable future, people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand.
They have actually updated the Pfizer storage recommendations quite a while ago. It can be stored at normal freezer temperatures for up to 2 weeks. I had mine administered at a mass clinic (in a hockey rink). 🤷♀️
I wouldn’t and didn’t suggest that people have the option of choosing another brand *right now* obviously if one isn’t available - they have the option of refusing what they are offered and WAITING for another option to potentially become available at a later date.
I can’t imagine our government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one - but if you say that is what will happen there I’ll have to take your word for it. Glad I don’t live there.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
The reason Pfizer is only being given through hospital hubs to phase1a criteria people is because of the storage requirements of minus 70 degrees
So, No, I don't think it will become available for more people - since the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated at Dr's surgeries or pharmacies - therefore with AZ which has normal vaccine storage requirements - ie such places with pre existing storage and management of other vaccines can run it
It is possible other brands will be available down the track, who knows - but there is no suggestion of that now and as the situation stands and is likely to stand for the foreseeable future, people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand.
They have actually updated the Pfizer storage recommendations quite a while ago. It can be stored at normal freezer temperatures for up to 2 weeks. I had mine administered at a mass clinic (in a hockey rink). 🤷♀️
I wouldn’t and didn’t suggest that people have the option of choosing another brand *right now* obviously if one isn’t available - they have the option of refusing what they are offered and WAITING for another option to potentially become available at a later date.
I can’t imagine our government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one - but if you say that is what will happen there I’ll have to take your word for it. Glad I don’t live there.
Most vaccine providers - the Dr's surgery where I work for example - do not have medical specific freezers, normal freezer temp or not.
Hospitals would - because they would use freezers used for blood products like frozen plasma.
We do have vaccine specific fridges and tight cold chain protocol already - for all the other vaccines we already give. and AZ just gets included in that existing system.
There is absolutely no suggestion in Australia that Pfizer will be given outside of hospital hubs.
Sure, people could wait and see if another brand becomes available to them down the track - and perhaps it will, who knows.
But that is not the situation now nor likely to be in forseeable future - so hopefully most people will not take that stance,or vaccinating the population will be very slow.
(they certainly are not atm, we have waiting lists of people and vaccine appt's filling as fast as we get vaccine supply.)
No I did not say the govt is telling anyone if the refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever have another one (if they change their mind or another one later becomes available) - how on earth did you get that from what I posted???
6 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
The reason Pfizer is only being given through hospital hubs to phase1a criteria people is because of the storage requirements of minus 70 degrees
So, No, I don't think it will become available for more people - since the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated at Dr's surgeries or pharmacies - therefore with AZ which has normal vaccine storage requirements - ie such places with pre existing storage and management of other vaccines can run it
It is possible other brands will be available down the track, who knows - but there is no suggestion of that now and as the situation stands and is likely to stand for the foreseeable future, people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand.
They have actually updated the Pfizer storage recommendations quite a while ago. It can be stored at normal freezer temperatures for up to 2 weeks. I had mine administered at a mass clinic (in a hockey rink). 🤷♀️
I wouldn’t and didn’t suggest that people have the option of choosing another brand *right now* obviously if one isn’t available - they have the option of refusing what they are offered and WAITING for another option to potentially become available at a later date.
I can’t imagine our government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one - but if you say that is what will happen there I’ll have to take your word for it. Glad I don’t live there.
Most vaccine providers - the Dr's surgery where I work for example - do not have medical specific freezers, normal freezer temp or not.
Hospitals would - because they would use freezers used for blood products like frozen plasma.
We do have vaccine specific fridges and tight cold chain protocol already - for all the other vaccines we already give. and AZ just gets included in that existing system.
There is absolutely no suggestion in Australia that Pfizer will be given outside of hospital hubs.
Sure, people could wait and see if another brand becomes available to them down the track - and perhaps it will, who knows.
But that is not the situation now nor likely to be in forseeable future - so hopefully most people will not take that stance,or vaccinating the population will be very slow.
(they certainly are not atm, we have waiting lists of people and vaccine appt's filling as fast as we get vaccine supply.)
No I did not say the govt is telling anyone if the refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever have another one (if they change their mind or another one later becomes available) - how on earth did you get that from what I posted???
Well you said “people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand” so not sure what else I was supposed to infer from that?
And yeah when Pfizer first came here they only did it in hospitals too, but people lost their *kitten* about how inefficient that was (for example low risk hospital clerical staff getting it before long term care residents because of “transport and storage” issues) so they quickly got their act together and figured out how to get it out in the community. It obviously can be done my Mom had Pfizer at her retirement home, and I had mine at a mass clinic that was set up in a hockey rink/community centre.2 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
The reason Pfizer is only being given through hospital hubs to phase1a criteria people is because of the storage requirements of minus 70 degrees
So, No, I don't think it will become available for more people - since the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated at Dr's surgeries or pharmacies - therefore with AZ which has normal vaccine storage requirements - ie such places with pre existing storage and management of other vaccines can run it
It is possible other brands will be available down the track, who knows - but there is no suggestion of that now and as the situation stands and is likely to stand for the foreseeable future, people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand.
They have actually updated the Pfizer storage recommendations quite a while ago. It can be stored at normal freezer temperatures for up to 2 weeks. I had mine administered at a mass clinic (in a hockey rink). 🤷♀️
I wouldn’t and didn’t suggest that people have the option of choosing another brand *right now* obviously if one isn’t available - they have the option of refusing what they are offered and WAITING for another option to potentially become available at a later date.
I can’t imagine our government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one - but if you say that is what will happen there I’ll have to take your word for it. Glad I don’t live there.
Most vaccine providers - the Dr's surgery where I work for example - do not have medical specific freezers, normal freezer temp or not.
Hospitals would - because they would use freezers used for blood products like frozen plasma.
We do have vaccine specific fridges and tight cold chain protocol already - for all the other vaccines we already give. and AZ just gets included in that existing system.
There is absolutely no suggestion in Australia that Pfizer will be given outside of hospital hubs.
Sure, people could wait and see if another brand becomes available to them down the track - and perhaps it will, who knows.
But that is not the situation now nor likely to be in forseeable future - so hopefully most people will not take that stance,or vaccinating the population will be very slow.
(they certainly are not atm, we have waiting lists of people and vaccine appt's filling as fast as we get vaccine supply.)
No I did not say the govt is telling anyone if the refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever have another one (if they change their mind or another one later becomes available) - how on earth did you get that from what I posted???
And yeah when Pfizer first came here they only did it in hospitals too, but people lost their *kitten* about how inefficient that was (for example low risk hospital clerical staff getting it before long term care residents because of “transport and storage” issues) so they quickly got their act together and figured out how to get it out in the community. It obviously can be done my Mom had Pfizer at her retirement home, and I had mine at a mass clinic that was set up in a hockey rink/community centre.
Yes, here the public health folks are now administering Pfizer at the teachers' college on the university campus, and at a large building on the agricultural fairgrounds that is normally used for trade shows and big wedding receptions.3 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
8 -
paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »The other issue is that it isn’t the only vaccine available - so if there is a safer one then I wouldn’t blame someone who wanted to wait a little longer to get that one.
Not the case everywhere.
In Australia there are only 2 brands - Pfizer and AZ..
Pfizer is only available through hospital hubs for people in phase1a criteria - residents and staff of aged care and disability homes, front line health workers, quarantine hotel and airport workers
Everyone else will be getting AZ - currently on phase1b- people over 70, aboriginal people over 55, other health workers, people with specific high risk medical conditions.
Just because Australia is choosing not to use them doesn’t mean they are not available. There are other vaccines available for purchase/use was my point.
I’m pretty sure if the AZ vaccine was no longer available for use the Australian government would source one of the other ones.
Well they are not available to the Australian people - post I was responding to suggested people could wait and get a different brand as AZ isnt only one available.
Whereas to most of the Australian public, yes it is.
At this moment in time. You said you have Pfizer there I would think that after the initial rush is over stocks will increase and be available to more people.
I would doubt that if the rest of the world deems AZ unsafe in certain populations the Australian govt wouldn’t offer something else to it’s citizens that need it.
So I was also commenting from a government policy perspective - it would be hard for a govt to say “this is all we have” and have the public accept that, when there are (potentially) better and safer options available.
The reason Pfizer is only being given through hospital hubs to phase1a criteria people is because of the storage requirements of minus 70 degrees
So, No, I don't think it will become available for more people - since the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated at Dr's surgeries or pharmacies - therefore with AZ which has normal vaccine storage requirements - ie such places with pre existing storage and management of other vaccines can run it
It is possible other brands will be available down the track, who knows - but there is no suggestion of that now and as the situation stands and is likely to stand for the foreseeable future, people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand.
They have actually updated the Pfizer storage recommendations quite a while ago. It can be stored at normal freezer temperatures for up to 2 weeks. I had mine administered at a mass clinic (in a hockey rink). 🤷♀️
I wouldn’t and didn’t suggest that people have the option of choosing another brand *right now* obviously if one isn’t available - they have the option of refusing what they are offered and WAITING for another option to potentially become available at a later date.
I can’t imagine our government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one - but if you say that is what will happen there I’ll have to take your word for it. Glad I don’t live there.
Most vaccine providers - the Dr's surgery where I work for example - do not have medical specific freezers, normal freezer temp or not.
Hospitals would - because they would use freezers used for blood products like frozen plasma.
We do have vaccine specific fridges and tight cold chain protocol already - for all the other vaccines we already give. and AZ just gets included in that existing system.
There is absolutely no suggestion in Australia that Pfizer will be given outside of hospital hubs.
Sure, people could wait and see if another brand becomes available to them down the track - and perhaps it will, who knows.
But that is not the situation now nor likely to be in forseeable future - so hopefully most people will not take that stance,or vaccinating the population will be very slow.
(they certainly are not atm, we have waiting lists of people and vaccine appt's filling as fast as we get vaccine supply.)
No I did not say the govt is telling anyone if the refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever have another one (if they change their mind or another one later becomes available) - how on earth did you get that from what I posted???
Well you said “people do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand” so not sure what else I was supposed to infer from that?
And yeah when Pfizer first came here they only did it in hospitals too, but people lost their *kitten* about how inefficient that was (for example low risk hospital clerical staff getting it before long term care residents because of “transport and storage” issues) so they quickly got their act together and figured out how to get it out in the community. It obviously can be done my Mom had Pfizer at her retirement home, and I had mine at a mass clinic that was set up in a hockey rink/community centre.
People do not have the option of choosing another brand or waiting for another brand means exactly that - their only option is AZ (unless they are in criteria 1a - Pfizer through hospital hubs)
Not sure how on earth the leap went from that to 'the government telling someone if they refuse one vaccine they lose their chance to ever get another one' (if they change their mind or another one becomes available) - which isnt what I said at all so I'm not sure how you inferred that.
At any rate you inferred wrongly - it isnt what I said and it isnt the case.
I dont doubt that Pfizer could be given in the community or that it is done in some other places - indeed the hospital hub staff here travel to nursing homes to do so - but it isnt anywhere near as efficient as using existing staff and existng infrastructure such as already exists in surgeries and pharmacies - hence it won't be done here and isn't what is going to happen here for the general population.
4 -
Paperpudding didn't say we won't get to have something else down the line if we don't get AZ now. True.1
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Paperpudding didn't say we won't get to have something else down the line if we don't get AZ now. True.
Well they literally told me multiple times in the conversation that the majority of the population does not have the option to EITHER wait OR choose another brand. Now they are saying that yes they can and they never said that - like it's right there in writing so idk how to even respond to that.
Honestly it doesn't matter to me enough to keep discussing it - hopefully everyone gets a good vaccine no matter where they live and the issues with AZ are worked out.2 -
Italy here. My husband (67) and I (66) reserved our vaccine slots yesterday. Here we have Pfizer, Moderna, AZ, and Johnson & Johnson (arriving in April). Johnson & Johnson will be administered in pharmacies. Here the vaccine you get depends on where you reserve a slot. We wanted Pfizer since my BIL is a cardiologist and that's what he said we should get. The Pfizer hub is a 15 min walk from us.
My husband reserved 1st and got a slot the next day (must have been a cancellation), I have my slot at the end of May. At the time of reservation, the followup dose is already reserved for 2 weeks after with the date and time given. I was very disappointed that mine will be so far out--almost 2 months, but I'm glad my husband will get coverage sooner.17 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.1 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
I just had a quite heated discussion with a friend who is absolutely freaked out about covid and who has family in Australia. She felt strongly that the Australian strategy is much better than what we have here, but refused to understand the strategy would be impossible to legally implement here due to differences in judicial and executive organization (we spent a good hour trying to explain this to her, two lawyers and one Master of Political Sciences). Not saying one type of organizing government is better than the other (and I’m not here for any debate), but I do agree with her that having the ability to keep covid numbers as low as in Australia by acting fast would be great.
For healthcare we have a dual system, with excellent(ish) free public healthcare and parallel private healthcare that’s commonly offered as an employment perk (it’s mandatory, to an extent). In the last year, public and private sector have really pulled together to provide most efficient solutions, and I know last spring some private clinics in the countryside were taken over by the state because the resources were needed and we were under state of emergency that allowed it. Last spring public healthcare was still an absolute mess so I relied on company healthcare for testing, but now I’ve been tested through the public system in privately run sites and everything works smoothly.
I haven’t really used public healthcare much since I was done with my public-healthcare braces at 15 (had great employment healthcare and university students’ healthcare here is organized through a hybrid foundation system), but now I’m firmly within the public healthcare system as all maternity healthcare is organized publicly, so I’ve visited the local public healthcare center a couple of times. They have a big vaccination site there, but no testing and no treatment of covid patients. Testing is done at the drive-in and walk-in sites nearby, and I think covid treatment is centralized to specific hospitals and clinics. So far no stadiums etc. that I’ve heard of. The closest to a non-medical site I’ve heard of is a public service hub that operates within a nearby mall, they have a healthcare clinic but I’ve understood the vaccination site is spread to some sort of library event space adjacent to the healthcare clinic.
We’re still vaccinating risk groups and age groups that are retired, but I know the state has agreed with private operators that once we start vaccinating largely employed age groups, the state will distribute vaccines to private clinics and cover the costs of vaccinating employed people through employment healthcare. It makes sense since private operators have large facilities and plenty of staff, so vaccines can be distributed more efficiently. These private operators have experience in mass vaccinations too, since they run seasonal flu shots every year and commonly offer companies the option of nurses traveling to workplaces to vaccinate everyone who wants it. Not likely to happen for remote work folks, but would probably make things very efficient for factories and other workplaces that run fully on-site. Don’t know if that’s possible for covid vaccines with freezer temperatures, though.0 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.
I'm no expert. I just do what I'm told and our ways of dealing with it are working very well so I'll keep doing what we are asked for the short time we may need a mask and I always trying to social distance and wash/use sanitiser. We haven't even had Covid here other than when one politician flew in and it was lucky she didn't spread it. Sh went straight to hospital when she had symptoms and that was a long time back , close to a year I guess since it was when this all started.
In the big cities is where there is a small amount of Covid now and then but they do get it under control fast. I think it's mainly doing well because it's not out of control which large numbers of people affected and the contact tracers find everyone quickly so they are quarantined right away.5 -
Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.
The short lockdowns are implemented to give time for contact tracing to occur. The goal is only to buy some time without community spread so that everyone who is a possible contact will be put into home quarantine. If you are a contact, then you get the full 14 days. Locations of spread are publicised, and people are pretty compliant, so they have been effective. When we had more widespread transmission, the lockdown was much stronger, and lasted longer until cases were low enough to have good contact tracing again.15 -
Paperpudding didn't say we won't get to have something else down the line if we don't get AZ now. True.
Well they literally told me multiple times in the conversation that the majority of the population does not have the option to EITHER wait OR choose another brand. Now they are saying that yes they can and they never said that - like it's right there in writing so idk how to even respond to that.
Honestly it doesn't matter to me enough to keep discussing it - hopefully everyone gets a good vaccine no matter where they live and the issues with AZ are worked out.
What I said was the majority of the population does not have any option about which brand they will get - atm it is Pfizer for criteria 1a people via hospital hubs and AZ for rest of population via approved Drs surgeries or pharmacies
There are no plans to change that.
So, correct, you do not atm have the option to choose another brand - nor is that likely to change.
I did not say people cannot wait (they might be waiting forever, who knows) to get another brand when/if it is ever available or that if they refuse AZ now they cannot change their mind and have it or any other hypthotical brands available in hypothetical future.
Not sure what else you saw right there in writing, you seem to be seeing things I did not say - this is same thing I have said all along and is the situation here
5 -
Mondowefte wrote: »Things are not so bad here in Australia that we need to be using all sorts of other venues that are not usually used for medical reasons to be used for now at least. We do have some drive in testing sites just to get lots of people checked but if I'm getting a vaccine I'd rather it in a hospital or medical practice since I have allergies. We keep hitting Covid on the head very fast. Brisbane only had to be locked down for 3 days when the last cases were around. Almost everyone I see is doing the right things with masks etc. We have fantastic people tracing it on the rare time it's in the community.
How do your lockdowns work - like does everything close? The lockdowns are no longer working here because most of our spread is now coming in "essential workplaces" like factories, warehouses, food processing plants. Like you are getting whole shifts of people infected and then taking it home to their families. And how does a 3 day lockdown stop the spread of something with a 14 day incubation period? I am confused about that. Like it's just not working here we have been in various stages of lockdown since December.
Now that the long term care homes are protected we really need to shift our vaccine strategy away from age groups categories and use exposure risk factors instead if we want to get this under control here.
The short lockdowns are implemented to give time for contact tracing to occur. The goal is only to buy some time without community spread so that everyone who is a possible contact will be put into home quarantine. If you are a contact, then you get the full 14 days. Locations of spread are publicised, and people are pretty compliant, so they have been effective. When we had more widespread transmission, the lockdown was much stronger, and lasted longer until cases were low enough to have good contact tracing again.
That makes sense - we keep getting to the point where contact tracing is impossible. I remember at the beginning they said that contact tracing was the key to stopping the spread, but once it gets to a certain point it just becomes out of control, and that keeps happening here. We lockdown the cases go down, we open up and they go up again. Now the variants are spreading and it is out of control once again.
Last summer we were down to around 50 cases as day I think, I'm not sure why we couldn't have kept the numbers low where as you can. Well it's because our politicians are useless and always one step behind I guess. They are more afraid of offending people than actually stopping it from coming in, they refuse to close travel down. Now we have the Brazilian variant spreading on the other end of the country from us (BC) so I'm sure that will be here next, and I don't know if the vaccines even work on that strain. We are over 3000 cases a day now in our province.
I think the idea was that once all the elderly people, (who were hit hard in the first wave) are vaccinated cases might go up but hospitalizations and deaths will go down. Now with the new variants spreading like crazy they are telling us that hospitalizations and deaths among younger people are increasing, and our ICU's are still full. I don't even know what to think anymore.3 -
I did my first sort-of post-vax thing, I think coloring slightly outside the lines of the CDC recommendations, even (unlike me).
I was inside someone's house, without a mask, for the first time since the pandemic started involving guidelines & restrictions here, i.e., since March 2020. Some very good out of town friends (married couple) were at their cottage here, and I haven't seen them in person (brief driveway visit) since December 2020. They're both more than 2 weeks past 2nd vaccinations, and have continued being very cautious about masks/isolating. I'm not *quite* 2 weeks past vaccination #2 (it's been about 9 days), and have been quite cautious.
I'd been mulling things over knowing they'd be in town, wanting to see them; even talked it over with a very level headed, smart, retired RN friend. My friends were caring, totally open to fully masked visit, but did want to show me around their condo. (I've been there lots, but may stay there while some work is done at my place, so they wanted to show me some technical stuff about utilities & such.)
I went and picked up take-out for all of us. It was a lovely day, so mostly we ate outside on the deck, but did spend some time inside without masks afterwards. I was worried that I'd feel twitchy, even after having decided it was OK enough, but it was fine.
Really nice, even. I don't feel worried, but am watching to see if it ends up being fine, as I expect.
It doesn't sound like you colored outside the CDC lines, as you were with only one other living group. Unless you count 9 vs 14 days as outside the line. On that point, I'm reading that as more data is collected, the vaccines appear more effective than initially thought after 1st dose AND more likely to prevent asymptomatic spread. That data arrived subsequent to the 2-week guidance. I'm glad you had a good visit and it felt good to you!
I'm wondering how I'll adjust to post pandemic crowds. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable (still don't like outdoor dining where strangers feel too close and talk too loud), and sometimes I feel fine (spent Easter with parents, indoors, without masks for first time in well over a year).
ETA: How are you guys thinking about post-vaccine get togethers with friends? Many of my friends have had both doses and are talking about gathering locally in May and traveling to be together in June. I realize the DCD wants folks to wait until July, but this is what I'm hearing. Curious what others are thinking/planning.4
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