Coronavirus prep

The difference between the covid vaccine and the birth control pill is that we are trying to get everyone to get the vaccine, so minimizing the risks is paramount. Women are not encouraged or even pressured to get on the pill by society. I was on the pill for 15+ years and in fact I had to constantly be reminded of the risks by my doctor, I was told by multiple busybodies that it was "bad" for me, and eventually my doctor pressured me to stop taking it because of my age and the risks. I was the one who decided the risk was acceptable.

As a society, we are urgently asking everyone to get vaccinated, so we are paying extra attention to the risks, and perhaps even over reacting. Vaccines are a completely different situation from prescribed medication geared towards an individual's specific health needs.

kimny72 wrote: »

The difference between the covid vaccine and the birth control pill is that we are trying to get everyone to get the vaccine, so minimizing the risks is paramount. Women are not encouraged or even pressured to get on the pill by society. I was on the pill for 15+ years and in fact I had to constantly be reminded of the risks by my doctor, I was told by multiple busybodies that it was "bad" for me, and eventually my doctor pressured me to stop taking it because of my age and the risks. I was the one who decided the risk was acceptable.

As a society, we are urgently asking everyone to get vaccinated, so we are paying extra attention to the risks, and perhaps even over reacting. Vaccines are a completely different situation from prescribed medication geared towards an individual's specific health needs.

Moreover, I think it's common to be reacting to the risks (list of what can happen), not so much about the occurrence incidence of the risked outcome, let alone the relative risk. Pregnancy and birth involve serious risks. Not becoming pregnant reduces risks on that side of things, increases risks from drug side effects. What matters is the comparative. In the Covid vaccine case, the better news articles are speaking explicitly about the relative risk of the drug side effect, vs. the combined risk of (contracting Covid + having severe side effects from disease), as well as the detectability/treatability of the two risk scenarios, in realistic circumstances.

As an aside, with AZ, I think it may be narrowed down to a smaller sub-population that's at higher risk of that side effect, but we're just not at that point yet, so the relative risk question is more generalized, imprecise.

Personally, I've taken multiple drugs that have *death* as a measurable-incidence direct side effect. I took them for a disease that, untreated, quite uniformly results in death within a few years for nearly everyone who has that disease, at that severity. These are *very* dangerous drugs. That level of risk would be unacceptable if pure risk were all that mattered. The same drugs would not be approved to treat less severe health conditions. It's *relative* risk that matters, treated vs. untreated.

P.S. I'm not intending to be speaking to the sex/gender equality issues here. I heard the same things as a PP about the trials for men's contraceptive pills, but I didn't investigate the incidence of those risks in the trial vs. women's contraceptives. Therefore, I don't feel well-informed enough to opine.

Further - and I know some will consider this unreasonable - the *relative* risk will be much different for men.

Men don't become pregnant, so they have zero risk from pregnancy or childbirth. That would change the evaluation of the drugs, in trials, realistically. Whether that's fair or right is a whole different discussion - in some ways more similar to the vax discussion, actually, as we take some vaccines not only to protect ourselves, but also to protect others. Still, I believe the evaluation in trials for vaccine is generally about the risk tradeoffs for the individual, not for society at large.

Personally, I was fortunate to have a long-term marriage in which my male partner was willing to assume some annoyance/inconvenience/unpleasantness around birth control methods, in order to spare my taking drugs.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

kimny72 wrote: »

The difference between the covid vaccine and the birth control pill is that we are trying to get everyone to get the vaccine, so minimizing the risks is paramount. Women are not encouraged or even pressured to get on the pill by society. I was on the pill for 15+ years and in fact I had to constantly be reminded of the risks by my doctor, I was told by multiple busybodies that it was "bad" for me, and eventually my doctor pressured me to stop taking it because of my age and the risks. I was the one who decided the risk was acceptable.

As a society, we are urgently asking everyone to get vaccinated, so we are paying extra attention to the risks, and perhaps even over reacting. Vaccines are a completely different situation from prescribed medication geared towards an individual's specific health needs.

Moreover, I think it's common to be reacting to the risks (list of what can happen), not so much about the occurrence incidence of the risked outcome, let alone the relative risk. Pregnancy and birth involve serious risks. Not becoming pregnant reduces risks on that side of things, increases risks from drug side effects. What matters is the comparative. In the Covid vaccine case, the better news articles are speaking explicitly about the relative risk of the drug side effect, vs. the combined risk of (contracting Covid + having severe side effects from disease), as well as the detectability/treatability of the two risk scenarios, in realistic circumstances.

As an aside, with AZ, I think it may be narrowed down to a smaller sub-population that's at higher risk of that side effect, but we're just not at that point yet, so the relative risk question is more generalized, imprecise.

Personally, I've taken multiple drugs that have *death* as a measurable-incidence direct side effect. I took them for a disease that, untreated, quite uniformly results in death within a few years for nearly everyone who has that disease, at that severity. These are *very* dangerous drugs. That level of risk would be unacceptable if pure risk were all that mattered. The same drugs would not be approved to treat less severe health conditions. It's *relative* risk that matters, treated vs. untreated.

P.S. I'm not intending to be speaking to the sex/gender equality issues here. I heard the same things as a PP about the trials for men's contraceptive pills, but I didn't investigate the incidence of those risks in the trial vs. women's contraceptives. Therefore, I don't feel well-informed enough to opine.

Further - and I know some will consider this unreasonable - the *relative* risk will be much different for men.

Men don't become pregnant, so they have zero risk from pregnancy or childbirth. That would change the evaluation of the drugs, in trials, realistically. Whether that's fair or right is a whole different discussion - in some ways more similar to the vax discussion, actually, as we take some vaccines not only to protect ourselves, but also to protect others. Still, I believe the evaluation in trials for vaccine is generally about the risk tradeoffs for the individual, not for society at large.

Personally, I was fortunate to have a long-term marriage in which my male partner was willing to assume some annoyance/inconvenience/unpleasantness around birth control methods, in order to spare my taking drugs.

The point of risks vs. responsibility on individual and population level is really interesting. As I’m currently not medically qualified to receive a covid vaccine and rely on people around me getting it to bring infection rates down and reopen society, I would feel less comfortable about pressing others to take the vaccine if the side effects weren’t taken as seriously. And yes, I do press, but only those who are nearest and dearest, like my husband whose only objection to vaccines is a slight fear of needles, so it’s a comfort zone thing for him but getting vaxxed when his turn comes will protect his wife and baby as he’s my single most likely source of infection. How much responsibility we can assume individuals take about wellbeing of others and the society in general is a whole different, very philosophical question. We already have soldiers fighting our wars, nurses and doctors taking huge personal risks in covid care units, firefighters charging into burning buildings and so on. At least here, state of emergency gives the government powers to draft medically trained personnel to do emergency work, regardless of whether they like the job, have switched careers, are retired or whatever. Quite a similar process to drafting military reserves for war. It hasn’t been done and I hope it doesn’t need to be done, but it’s an example of a personal health risk those trained individuals would be legally forced to take to serve the society.

The relative risk point is also an interesting one. I understand that these drug tests revolve around medical risks, but I wish risks like quality of life, cost, and the ways drugs alter other life risks were considered more. Pregnancy and childbirth are extreme examples that don’t only carry medical risks for women, they are also huge life-altering events that come with a lifetime of responsibility to actively do something about it (abortion, adoption and raising a child are all options that carry life-altering consequences, the point here is not to discuss morality of different options). There’s a whole other set of issues with how those risks regarding children are shared between men and women and how they affect people’s futures in all imaginable ways.

As a smaller scale example of non-medical risks and side effects to consider, I have alopecia and a couple of years ago my dermatologist put me on a new drug. The process of using the drug was awful, destroyed my mood and prevented me from accepting my situation and learning to live with it. These mental health effects didn’t come from anything the drug did physically or chemically, they came from the process of applying that drug and it reminding me of my illness every day. In the end, after discussing with my doctor, we decided to quit the drug because the prescription was more of a ”this sometimes works” thing, and the chance of it working for me was so much smaller than the already witnessed decrease in mental health and quality of life. In my case, the risk outweighed the potential benefit even though the risk wasn’t directly a medical one caused by the drug. Of course, it’s worth noting that alopecia itself isn’t life-threatening in any way (unless you count increased skin cancer risk on exposed scalp), so tolerated side effects are smaller.

Australian Update- as of yesterday, AZ has now been discontinued for people under 50 unless benefit considered higher in high risk situations
Given our almost non existent community transmission this will probably only mean workers in quarantine and front line heath.
People under 50 who have already had first dose with no issues can still have second dose.

Big setback for roll out of vaccine - Drs surgeries and pharmacies will it not have medical freezer storage facilities for Pfizer and the country doesn't have sufficient supply of Pfizer.

Athijade wrote: »

Gisel2015 wrote: »

Athijade wrote: »

Our Kroger has taken down all their mask required signs at the doors. The state wide mandate ended Monday and people are taking advantage of it. I will still wear a mask until I have had both shots.

Shot 1 is tomorrow morning so we shall see how it goes

Good for you, but I still do and will wear a mask inside any store, and I am fully vaccinated. I will wait for the CDC and health authorities to guide me.

I should have been clearer, but I agree with you. I will be masking up in large group situations (like stores) until the CDC says it is okay. I'm not going to just throw away the mask after my second shot.

I get my shot in about an hour. My nerves are a bit high, mostly about possible side effects. I know shot 1 doesn't seem to cause as many as shot 2, but I am still planning on the worst.

Quoting for an update. Got my shot yesterday morning. As the day went on my fatigue levels got worse and worse. Now, I do have chronic fatigue, so I don't have as much energy to play with. Still, by mid afternoon, I was in bed napping and the rest of the evening I barely got out of bed unless I HAD to.

As of this morning the fatigue is still holding on strong, my arm just hurts and I can barely move it, I ache all over, and I feel blah. You know the feeling when your body is fighting something, but it's not anything serious. You just feel yucky? That feeling. I ended up ordering in food last night because there was no way I was going to cook and got something that allowed me to have plenty left over for tonight.

So it's not horrible and I am sure my chronic health issues have made it worse. Still 100% worth it. I will just plan for the worst when it comes to shot #2 on May 6th.

Gisel2015 wrote: »

SummerSkier wrote: »

I had an almost immediate reaction to the 2nd Pfizer jab yesterday. It was a drive thru and the line yesterday was crazy long. I was in the car for almost 2 hrs before I got my shot (so I already had to pee like crazy AND had a headache). Anyway, no sooner had the gal came by to write the 15 minute mark on my windshield when I felt my heart start racing. I looked at my watch and it was strange to see it shoot up from the 70's to over 160 within just a few seconds. So I honked my horn a couple times to get their attention and the EMT came over. I know that the increased heart rate could be the first sign of a really bad reaction so I did not wait. But after it spiked up it started to slowly come back down and I never had any trouble breathing or felt too faint. I put my recliner back and my legs up. And then I just waited for about another 30 minutes or so with the EMT checking every 5 min on me. When my HR looked like it was going to stay around 90 or below I left and drove home. And that was it. Altho I am not 24 hrs in yet my arm is a little sore (like the first one) but I did manage a short walk without issues. I think my temp is up just a hair over 98 which is not normal for me in the am when it is usually 97 or so. Luckily I do know deep breathing relaxation exercises so I was doing those most of the time while I was waiting as the EMT thought it might be an anxiety reaction. hahah. might be?? I had NO reaction to the first time except my arm being sore and maybe a small headache and tiredness. maybe. I will take it easy and no running today and possibly tomorrow because the heart thing was pretty dreadful.

Sorry about your post-vaccine event Bon, and glad that you called the EMT for assistance. You were probably dehydrated and tired after a long wait. Hope that you are doing better today, just don't exert yourself. G.

I am pretty sure that the vaccine caused the reaction and not anything else. I do have MVP so it is possible that was targeted. I think when you get the vaccine some of your symptoms align with any "weak" points you may already have. I did spike a temp after 24 hrs of about 100.5 but that was gone by the next morning. I can tell my underarm lymph nodes are swollen so I am planning to delay my mammogram in accordance with current CDC guidelines. No sense in getting an untrue result. I never would have thought about the lymph node reaction and honestly when I got the first shot in my left arm I noticed it a few weeks in but with this shot in the right arm I see it almost immediately and can actually feel my sports bra under my arm irritating it. Interesting.

I had my 2nd Pfizer dose on Monday. My arm started hurting a few hours after the vaccine, then by evening I was exhausted. Woke up the next morning with a fever of about 100.5 and headache. Felt really blah all day. Then suddenly about 8:30 that night, I suddenly was wide awake and felt my fever just go away, and I felt great.

Got my 2nd Moderna shot yesterday FINALLY. Arm was sore and I felt tired, but that could've also been due to the fact I gave up caffeine this week for health reasons. Took my prescription Naproxen for my sore back that was hurting before the vaccine, and woke up this morning feeling pretty good.

Headed out to the gym, then started feeling tired and "off." Decided to turn around (very unlike me--I like my gym time) but decided to listen to my body for once and wasn't even anxious about missing the gym (also unlike me). Went to bed and slept for an hour and a half; developed body aches, chills, low appetite, headache. Glad I listened to my body!

My arm is swollen more than the last shot, too. At first I looked at it and though "hey, my deltoids are popping" then realized it was just swollen .

rheddmobile wrote: »

Speakeasy76 wrote: »

Got my 2nd Moderna shot yesterday FINALLY. Arm was sore and I felt tired, but that could've also been due to the fact I gave up caffeine this week for health reasons. Took my prescription Naproxen for my sore back that was hurting before the vaccine, and woke up this morning feeling pretty good.

Headed out to the gym, then started feeling tired and "off." Decided to turn around (very unlike me--I like my gym time) but decided to listen to my body for once and wasn't even anxious about missing the gym (also unlike me). Went to bed and slept for an hour and a half; developed body aches, chills, low appetite, headache. Glad I listened to my body!

My arm is swollen more than the last shot, too. At first I looked at it and though "hey, my deltoids are popping" then realized it was just swollen .

I’m sure it’ll be fine, but just FYI for others who might be reading, it’s not recommended to take Naproxen or other NSAIDs such as Advil after the vaccine, because it reduces immune response.

I had my Pfizer 2nd shot three days ago - felt fine the day after until nightfall, developed a fever and chills, headache. Lasted about three hours. Still felt tired on day two. Feel fine today.

The CDC recommends not taking any painkillers BEFORE getting the vaccine. You can take whatever you like AFTER the shot to deal with the side effects.

Every high profile politician in my area is taking the AstraZeneca vaccine on TV - guess they have no choice if they want to boost confidence in it they have to walk the walk.
Although I have heard of people refusing it here that isn't happening in my circle - I am 55 and my social media feeds have been loaded this week with posts from people around my age who have taken it as soon as they qualified.

Read an interesting article about vaccine side effects today - it’s in Finnish so no point in linking, but wanted to share the point anyway. For vaccines, the benefit isn’t concrete and immediately felt by an individual, but negative side effects (arm pain, fever etc) are. For many medications, it’s the opposite. The article mentions regular OTC painkillers as an example: they give people the immediate concrete benefit of killing the pain, but people rarely think about the side effects even though rare effects like liver damage and internal bleeding kill people every year.

(Yes, I know the benefit of the covid vaccine is very concrete, but it’s not something that will immediately start curing an individual or prevent something they would otherwise suffer for sure.)

Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »

No one wears masks in the hospitals anymore when we are not seeing patients. I still wear mine because I just feel wrong without wearing it and honestly it has become like a comfort thing for me. I also like how it protects against other illnesses. I haven't gotten a cold or the flu this year like I usually do! But all my coworkers who are doctors don't wear their masks at all. They are okay with doing this since the CDC says it is okay for people to meet with others who are vaccinated or even unvaccinated without masks now. Just noticed this trend the past few months of no mask wearing and wanted to share my observations.

I don't like that others tell me to take my mask off and judge me for still wearing one. Of course everyone wears masks when they are walking about the hospital and seeing patients, but once we go back to our team rooms, no one wears them.

I guess with everyone involved vaccinated the risk is so low that they deem it unnecessary. That's fine - but to judge you for wanting to wear one isn't. What does it matter to them if you wear one?

I no longer wear a mask when I visit my mother, she is fully vaccinated and I have my first shot. I wear it into the home and in public areas (required) but not when I am with her one on one in her room. She has a lot of trouble hearing/understanding me when I have the mask on and has asked me to take if off all along - so I do it now so she can actually see an unmasked face after all this time, and actually have a conversation with me. People will probably disagree with that but I really feel that the risk is negligible at this point. (I also get tested weekly.)