Coronavirus prep

hipari wrote: »

The main concern I have about loosening precautions for those who are vaccinated is that people will forget ”easy” basics like social distancing. I’m pregnant and can’t get vaccinated, since pregnant women aren’t cleared here unless other high-risk factors are involved. While I won’t be attending concerts or other crowded situations, I also can’t avoid basic necessities like the grocery store and taking public transportation to medical appointments. I’d hate to see loosening mask requirements (legal or peer pressure) and things opening up leading to people forgetting social distancing and breathing on my neck while standing in line at the grocery store instead of forming the line 6 feet apart from others in the line.

I have no plans to attend crowded events and don’t expect mask mandates or mask recommendations to continue forever, but I sincerely hope polite social distancing from strangers where possible (like grocery stores and other ”daytime businesses”), hand hygiene and staying home when experiencing any flu symptoms becomes the norm.

Remember if you stand in front of your shopping cart (trolley) then you are in control of how close others can get to you.

lokihen wrote: »

hipari wrote: »

The main concern I have about loosening precautions for those who are vaccinated is that people will forget ”easy” basics like social distancing. I’m pregnant and can’t get vaccinated, since pregnant women aren’t cleared here unless other high-risk factors are involved. While I won’t be attending concerts or other crowded situations, I also can’t avoid basic necessities like the grocery store and taking public transportation to medical appointments. I’d hate to see loosening mask requirements (legal or peer pressure) and things opening up leading to people forgetting social distancing and breathing on my neck while standing in line at the grocery store instead of forming the line 6 feet apart from others in the line.

I have no plans to attend crowded events and don’t expect mask mandates or mask recommendations to continue forever, but I sincerely hope polite social distancing from strangers where possible (like grocery stores and other ”daytime businesses”), hand hygiene and staying home when experiencing any flu symptoms becomes the norm.

Remember if you stand in front of your shopping cart (trolley) then you are in control of how close others can get to you.

I never use a cart - I don’t have a car and can’t carry a cart’s worth of stuff back home even though it’s only a few minutes walk. If the neck breathers start reappearing, maybe I’ll have to start using a cart for the 1-2 days worth of groceries I buy at a time. The upside to having to visit the store every couple of days is that the store is open 24/7 and the walk there is measured in yards better than in miles (about 200 meters), so I can easily avoid rush hour.

Whenever I go there with my husband, I make him stand behind me while in line. He can breathe on my neck any time and block others from getting too close.

About vaccines and parental consent: here in Finland there’s a tricky balance between a child’s right to privacy and parental consent. The basic idea is that once a child is mature enough to decide about their own treatment, parental consent is no longer needed and they aren’t even allowed to see the child’s records without the child’s consent because medical records are private. I’m not sure if there’s a default age limit for that, but I think it’s generally somewhere around 12-14. I frequently hear my colleagues get frustrated when they can no longer access their children’s medical information after some birthday has passed, even if the child wants the parent to take care of their appointments and prescriptions, because they haven’t filled some consent form.

My personal experience, from what I remember, is that I started going to the orthodontist alone when I was probably 9 or 10 (including walking to the doctor’s office alone from school in the middle of the day, my parents just wrote my teacher a note that I need to leave at a certain time) and they did whatever they felt was the right next phase of treatment. My mom came in maybe twice in the 6 years after my post-dental surgery braces were put in, and only if there were some major new brace things that required supervised home maintenance. I got a booster tetanus shot from my elementary school nurse in 5th or 6th grade and while it’s possible my parents had sent in a consent form, they weren’t present and I wasn’t aware of getting the shot until the day it happened. I did a high school exchange year in the US when I was 16, and got all vaccinations, lab work etc done independently through my high school nurse, I’m pretty sure my mom never signed any medical consent forms. When I returned at 17, the same nurse prescribed my first birth control pills and I know for a fact my parents weren’t consulted at any point of that, although the nurse did recommend telling my parents if I felt comfortable doing so.

This was a stark contrast to my US exchange - I had taken care of my own medication and medical appointments independently for years at that point, but in the US I had to take the basic OTC painkillers I used for headaches and period pains to be stored with the school nurse, and my exchange mom had to sign a special permission slip that I can go and get them independently without the nurse needing to call my exchange mom for permission every time. In Finland, our high school teachers sometimes asked students if anyone was carrying those same painkillers if they got a headache, and usually multiple students offered. In the US I wasn’t allowed to leave school in the middle of the day without family picking me up or calling at time of departure to confirm - as said, in Finland a written note from parent was enough at 9 years old. Places and cultures can be very different.

lemurcat2 wrote: »

Where I am, public transit and most private business (like grocery stores and my favorite gardening store) require masks inside. I follow the rules, so I wear them there. I assume one has to take off the mask in restaurants (here you are supposed to have them on when interacting with servers), but I haven't been to one yet. Not movies either, but plan to go to one soon. Tried to get really limited CSO tickets, but didn't act fast enough, and so far no plays open, but again will follow the rules.

I don't think unemployment is a real issue in that many jobs that need people can't find people.

Well . . . yeah, many jobs can't find people, and the number of unemployed people is similar to the number of jobs seeking people. Some of the matching problem is things like location & skills, certainly. But I think @ahoy_m8 has a point, looking at the situation from the point of view of a lower-skilled/lower-educated but maybe vulnerable person (vaxed but potentially low response to vax because of health conditions, say; or actually allergic to vax components).

Being able to find a job is not identical to being able to find a reasonably safe job, in places where transmission rates are still worrisome, but masking/distancing requirements are being dropped. I have no idea how many people are in that situation, but personally I sure have a lot more sympathy and concern for them, than I do for people who are refusing to be vaccinated.

I, too, greatly enjoyed a winter free of many illnesses! I loathe stomach bugs (pretty sure you could classify me as emetophobic), and with 4 children in a relatively small space it’s never fun. Knock on wood, haven’t had one in a while! I’ll take it! I do hope this will make people more aware of sharing germs. I know too many people/families that don’t think it’s a huge deal to go places or do things with active symptoms or even known illnesses and it is infuriating to me! And they don’t even tel you until it comes up in conversation!! Sure, there are those times where symptoms don’t start until later, we have had that happen before and I always feel awful, but it’s not intentional. This has at least made it a bit more of a stigma to do that... hopefully that will continue on into next sick season so people will be aware and respectful and KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES!

mom22dogs wrote: »

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

I've been thinking about something that may make me sound like a jerk...

I keep hearing fully vaccinated people saying that they are continuing to take all the precautions that they took pre-vaccine, so they can "protect the unvaccinated".

In the U.S., everyone over 12 years old has the opportunity to get vaccinated. There are no supply problems, and most providers no longer require an appointment, you can just walk in.

If you are over 12 years old in the U.S., and you are not vaccinated, then that is a choice you have made. You are choosing to put yourself at risk. What lengths am I supposed to go to in order to protect you?

I fully understand that there are immunocompromised people out there, and that is why I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance in essential businesses, like grocery stores, the post office, etc. However, I must assume that immunocompromised people would not put themselves in large, unmasked crowds, like concerts or crowded restaurants. That was true before Covid if you were receiving immunotherapy.

I also wear my mask and keep distance from kids that are too young to be vaccinated.

But for adults...It sounds callous when I type this out, but if you choose not to protect yourself, I have little appetite for doing it for you.

I guess I'm just sick of hearing the vaccine excuses.

I agree. I got the vaccine, so I will go maskless. I am very unlikely to get the virus, and don't see the point of wearing a mask. If I'm not going to get it, why wear a mask "to protect the unvaccinated" when I won't have the virus anyway? If people choose not to get the vaccine, that's fine, won't affect me, and I have no sympathy for those who choose not to get it for whatever ridiculous reason. They are the ones that will get covid and end up getting really sick potentially. Even if I fall in the 5% that it doesn't work on, I still won't get it as bad.

Those that can't get vaccinated already have to be very careful, and I assume they will continue to be.

My thoughts also. I will wear a mask where the business or ordinance requires it. Wal-Mart, Dollar General, and others no longer require masks for vaccinated customers. I realize many unvaccinated customers will take advantage of this, but these are the same people who never wore a mask even when Wal-Mart policy required it for everyone (but never enforced masks). I am already protecting those other customers plenty by being vaccinated. I also am protecting myself, so not really as concerned as when I couldn't do much tobprtect myself and had to rely almost entirely upon strangers to behave appropriately.

GaleHawkins wrote: »

Some seem to be confused why we got the vaccine. Fully vaccinated we still can get covid-19. Hopefully it just won't kill us or put us in the hospital. Recently we had three people in an area hospital with covid-19. All three had been fully vaccinated and 30 days post the second shot.

Of course you still can - nobody is claiming the vaccine is perfect.

However your chances of doing so are greatly reduced and severity of disease likely to be much reduced if you do.

Not sure what you think anyone is confused about?

snowflake954 wrote: »

lokihen wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

lokihen wrote: »

I would like to see masks become the norm during flu season. Going a full year without catching a cold or the flu has been a positive.

I've worn a mask as prescribed by local rules during 'Rona.

I'm not buying into wearing one every year during whatever is considered "flu season". Most people didn't catch the flu or cold because they didn't go anywhere in the 2020-21 flu season. I've had a flu shot annually since the early '90s and never had the flu before that. MAYBE one cold for a couple days a year. Not worth masking for IMO.

Is this why the disagrees on my post? I didn't mean make it mandatory. Instead, make it an acceptable choice for anyone to wear with an extra dose of approval if they wear one when they have a cold. I plan on wearing one this fall/winter, not just for protection but for keeping out the freezing air.

I think people are just tired of wearing masks and don't even want to think ahead to the next flu season. Perhaps we'll just naturally see people wearing them, especially if they have a cold and need to go out. However that's to be seen.

I doubt it. (Call me a cynic.) Even among people who've supported masking requirements, in my experience IRL and what I read here in the threads, the overwhelming (though not universal) reason people wear masks (or at least how they talk about their reasoning) is to protect themselves, or protect vulnerable people near and dear to them. Even in recent posts on this thread, about whether people will wear masks during flu season, the talk is about "I liked not being sick as often this year, so I might wear a mask in future".

The idea that we ought to wear a mask to protect *other* people when *we're* sick runs counter to the common reasoning about masks, it seems like. I don't think that impulse will occur, at least not routinely.

AnnPT77 wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

lokihen wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

lokihen wrote: »

I would like to see masks become the norm during flu season. Going a full year without catching a cold or the flu has been a positive.

I've worn a mask as prescribed by local rules during 'Rona.

I'm not buying into wearing one every year during whatever is considered "flu season". Most people didn't catch the flu or cold because they didn't go anywhere in the 2020-21 flu season. I've had a flu shot annually since the early '90s and never had the flu before that. MAYBE one cold for a couple days a year. Not worth masking for IMO.

Is this why the disagrees on my post? I didn't mean make it mandatory. Instead, make it an acceptable choice for anyone to wear with an extra dose of approval if they wear one when they have a cold. I plan on wearing one this fall/winter, not just for protection but for keeping out the freezing air.

I think people are just tired of wearing masks and don't even want to think ahead to the next flu season. Perhaps we'll just naturally see people wearing them, especially if they have a cold and need to go out. However that's to be seen.

I doubt it. (Call me a cynic.) Even among people who've supported masking requirements, in my experience IRL and what I read here in the threads, the overwhelming (though not universal) reason people wear masks (or at least how they talk about their reasoning) is to protect themselves, or protect vulnerable people near and dear to them. Even in recent posts on this thread, about whether people will wear masks during flu season, the talk is about "I liked not being sick as often this year, so I might wear a mask in future".

The idea that we ought to wear a mask to protect *other* people when *we're* sick runs counter to the common reasoning about masks, it seems like. I don't think that impulse will occur, at least not routinely.

Well, call me an optimist, but my real point is this--there is no way anyone can say what will happen come fall when the virus spikes again. As we've all seen COVID keeps changing things up, and it's still running rampant in certain parts of the world. In the past, the idea of wearing a mask never even occurred to a normal person. Do I think a majority would wear masks if not forced? Nope. But if I worked in an office, or rode public transportation, I might if I had a cough and cold or flu symptoms so I wouldn't spread it. I also imagine someone coughing or sneezing in close quarters will not pass unobserved in the future.

hipari wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jenilla1 wrote: »

SuzySunshine99 wrote: »

I've been thinking about something that may make me sound like a jerk...

I keep hearing fully vaccinated people saying that they are continuing to take all the precautions that they took pre-vaccine, so they can "protect the unvaccinated".

In the U.S., everyone over 12 years old has the opportunity to get vaccinated. There are no supply problems, and most providers no longer require an appointment, you can just walk in.

If you are over 12 years old in the U.S., and you are not vaccinated, then that is a choice you have made. You are choosing to put yourself at risk. What lengths am I supposed to go to in order to protect you?

I fully understand that there are immunocompromised people out there, and that is why I will continue to wear my mask and keep my distance in essential businesses, like grocery stores, the post office, etc. However, I must assume that immunocompromised people would not put themselves in large, unmasked crowds, like concerts or crowded restaurants. That was true before Covid if you were receiving immunotherapy.

I also wear my mask and keep distance from kids that are too young to be vaccinated.

But for adults...It sounds callous when I type this out, but if you choose not to protect yourself, I have little appetite for doing it for you.

I guess I'm just sick of hearing the vaccine excuses.

I just now got my second dose 2 days ago. And I got my first dose the day after eligibility opened up for my group. I didn't waste any time.

In line, there were many, many young people getting their very first shots. It's only been 2 days for the people in my line. They aren't protected yet.

These people weren't willfully blowing off the vax. They just didn't get it as early as you got it, for whatever reason. There were two teen girls in front of me. One said she had to wait a week so she could get a ride from the other girl. People can't always just up and do things.

I get that you might be annoyed if people are still fooling around, delaying vaxes into the summer, but it's still early for the very latest groups.

Just because you're fully vaxxed at this point, doesn't mean the people who come after you are slackers who deserve less consideration. We're not all operating on the same timeline of vaccine availability.

It would have been nice if CDC had waited to drop the mask recommendations until after the minimum vax period for at least the first dose of the final group was completed. I mean, what's one more month of masking for our fellow human beings?

I do agree that we shouldn't waste too much effort on people who willingly choose to endanger themselves at this point. I have zero sympathy for antivaxxers who end up sick.

I can only speak for New Mexico...but at this point if someone in New Mexico hasn't been vaccinated yet, they are most definitely dragging their heals. We've been open to all age groups since early to mid April...no appointments necessary and you can just walk into a pharmacy and get your jab and it's been that way for awhile now. I was one of the last to have to wait on the NMDOH to call and tell you that your vaccine is ready and available, and my 2nd shot was April 2.

At my office, we are about 70% vaccinated with about 30% dragging their heals. We just dropped our employee mask requirement for those who are fully vaccinated as of today. Otherwise, mask is still required and anyone not fully vaccinated who is caught in the building without a mask will be put on a week long suspension without pay. Also, if fully vaccinated we are free to travel between states without quarantine...unvaccinated still requires quarantine after travel with no work from home option and you have to take vacation time. That has finally gotten some people out scrambling to get vaccinated, but it's still going to take them six weeks or so to be fully vaccinated...when they could have just done this a month or two ago...and in many cases earlier because they were notified that a vaccine was available to them and they declined.

I understand that CDC is an American agency and what they do is thus not applicable to Finland but: we’re still vaccinating the 45-49 age group, and the last group, 16-19, is estimated to open on July 19th. I have still seen a big decline in mask-wearing in the last couple of weeks, even in younger people, in public places like grocery stores.

Oh, I get that. Even in the states we have some that are lagging. My comment was more in regards to continuing to wear masks to protect unvaccinated people who for the most part in NM are willingly unvaccinated...they aren't waiting for their turn or anything like that. I have zero compulsion to wear a mask to protect willingly unvaccinated people.

musicfan68 wrote: »

In Iowa, they have been vaccinating all eligible age groups for the last several weeks. Anyone who doesn't have it yet most likely doesn't want to get the vax.

They were cancellig clinics a couple of months ago due to not enough people signing up for them.

Yup...same for NM. I had my 2nd shot on April 2 at a mass vax center and they shut those down after that week I believe. NM is also number one in the US for getting available doses into arms at about 94%. Just bragging a little because NM is not generally first in anything good.

Ontario is at almost 60% eligible vaccinated and have opened up to everyone 12 and up now. I complained a lot about our rollout but I have to admit that once the supply of vaccines stabilized we are getting it done now.
And now that 90% of my moms home residents and staff are vaccinated I don’t have to get tested weekly! Sure won’t miss my weekly brain poke.

lokihen wrote: »

Theoldguy1 wrote: »

lokihen wrote: »

I would like to see masks become the norm during flu season. Going a full year without catching a cold or the flu has been a positive.

I've worn a mask as prescribed by local rules during 'Rona.

I'm not buying into wearing one every year during whatever is considered "flu season". Most people didn't catch the flu or cold because they didn't go anywhere in the 2020-21 flu season. I've had a flu shot annually since the early '90s and never had the flu before that. MAYBE one cold for a couple days a year. Not worth masking for IMO.

Is this why the disagrees on my post? I didn't mean make it mandatory. Instead, make it an acceptable choice for anyone to wear with an extra dose of approval if they wear one when they have a cold. I plan on wearing one this fall/winter, not just for protection but for keeping out the freezing air.

Also, it seems any mention of masks, one way or the other, gets at least one Disagree on this thread.

I, for one, actually like wearing masks in public, but that's more about my social anxiety. In reality, I'd only wear them in the future if I'm sick myself.