Coronavirus prep
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I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.2 -
Antiopelle wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
Coincidentally, today I read an article in our newspaper that the number of children with RSV has dropped to almost zero, just like the flu in adults and that the hopes were that coming winters we would continue to use masks and precautions when feeling ill.
Very interesting that there are opposing reports. I wonder if the two are discussing different scenarios. From the way you phrased the summary of your article, it sounds like it might be referencing an approach to zero while in a more protected state. Since I did not see your article, its hard to compare. For the guardian piece, it was definitely addressing the more "open" situation where children are living in a more pre-pandemic lifestyle.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.3 -
Antiopelle wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
Coincidentally, today I read an article in our newspaper that the number of children with RSV has dropped to almost zero, just like the flu in adults and that the hopes were that coming winters we would continue to use masks and precautions when feeling ill.
Very interesting that there are opposing reports. I wonder if the two are discussing different scenarios. From the way you phrased the summary of your article, it sounds like it might be referencing an approach to zero while in a more protected state. Since I did not see your article, its hard to compare. For the guardian piece, it was definitely addressing the more "open" situation where children are living in a more pre-pandemic lifestyle.
To me, that doesn't seem like an opposing report, but - as you say - a different phase, with the "less disease" phase contributing to the "more disease" phase happening among children in some places.
In the Guardian article you quoted, it says:The “immunity debt” phenomenon occurs because measures like lockdowns, hand-washing, social distancing and masks are not only effective at controlling Covid-19. They also suppress the spread of other illnesses that transmit in a similar way, including the flu, common cold, and lesser-known respiratory illnesses like RSA. In New Zealand, lockdowns last winter led to a 99.9% reduction in flu cases and a 98% reduction in RSV - and near-eliminated the spike of excess deaths New Zealand usually experiences during winter.
“This positive collateral effect in the short term is welcome, as it prevents additional overload of the healthcare system,” a collective of French doctors wrote in a May 2021 study of immunity debt. But in the long term, it can create problems of its own: if bacterial and viral infections aren’t circulating among children, they don’t develop immunity, which leads to larger outbreaks down the line.
So, during the thick of measures to prevent Covid spread, spread of other contagious diseases drops (probably especially other diseases that exploit the same general contagion mechanisms). Over time, that means individual immunity to all those other diseases drops among the community affected (through lack of immune system being exercised, metaphorically). When things open back up, those people with lowered immunity to various diseases are exposed to those diseases again, and get sick in numbers.
I'm not a medical expert, but I'd assume the effect would be stronger among children, whose immune systems are still developing in a more general sense, compared to adults.kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.
I'm wondering whether the reduced exposure (to many diseases or pathogens) among children during the pandemic will have long term consequence for them - whether there's some aspect of immune system development that can't be readily or fully recovered via future exposures, after some critical development window. Certainly there are signs that development of certain other capabilities in children (like language acquisition) have critical developmental windows, with any deficits harder to make up at a later age.
My mother always thought that being *too* anti-germ compulsive with children would increase their chances of developing allergies and such as they grew, though I don't believe there was any science to support that at the time (1950s-60s). IMU, there's now some evidence that that could have an element of truth.2 -
I just had a strange encounter. Went to town to buy chicken feed, had to go inside (and because I'm back on high alert) I was wearing my P100 mask. Young man at the counter said, "that won't help, if you got the vaccine you're going to get it."
I shrugged and said I won't be breathing it in. My takeaway from that was he wasn't vaccinated and wasn't taking any precautions.
So, is this one of the conspiracy theories? That the vaccines are spreading covid?5 -
I just had a strange encounter. Went to town to buy chicken feed, had to go inside (and because I'm back on high alert) I was wearing my P100 mask. Young man at the counter said, "that won't help, if you got the vaccine you're going to get it."
I shrugged and said I won't be breathing it in. My takeaway from that was he wasn't vaccinated and wasn't taking any precautions.
So, is this one of the conspiracy theories? That the vaccines are spreading covid?
I don't know if it's a conspiracy or a huge misunderstanding that people have. The CDC has stated that vaccinated individuals can shed the same viral load as an unvaccinated person if they are infected...which is true. The part people seem to forget or not read or pay attention to is that you're far less likely to get the virus if you're vaccinated in the first place...they also point to breakthrough cases as if they're rampant...they are not, but media makes a big deal out of them so it seems that way.
Basically some...probably many people are confusing shedding the same viral load if vaxed but infected with being vaxed and actually getting infected in the first place. That or they're just being purposefully obtuse or willfully ignorant...which wouldn't really be a shocker either.10 -
That's interesting. The TWIV virologists said that we don't realize how many bugs we come in contact with, even just in our homes, and unless you've been in a hermetically sealed bubble, the typical pandemic stay-at-home would not make an appreciable difference to your immune system. But perhaps they were talking about adults and not children, and in the US specifically.
I also know many parents (at least here in the US) still allowed their children to play with neighborhood kids. Heck, at one point people were throwing covid parties. I'd think immune system issues would be specific to areas that had a very prohibitive long term lockdown or parents who really did keep their children isolated from other children. Even masked kids are still no doubt touching their eyes, nose, and mouth all the time. My nephews had strep several times over the last year and got covered in mud and bugs in the backyard and going camping!5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.
This is a good point, I'd guess lots of modern children live much more sanitized lives than even 20 or 30 yrs ago. Maybe they're already starting at a deficit.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I just had a strange encounter. Went to town to buy chicken feed, had to go inside (and because I'm back on high alert) I was wearing my P100 mask. Young man at the counter said, "that won't help, if you got the vaccine you're going to get it."
I shrugged and said I won't be breathing it in. My takeaway from that was he wasn't vaccinated and wasn't taking any precautions.
So, is this one of the conspiracy theories? That the vaccines are spreading covid?
I don't know if it's a conspiracy or a huge misunderstanding that people have. The CDC has stated that vaccinated individuals can shed the same viral load as an unvaccinated person if they are infected...which is true. The part people seem to forget or not read or pay attention to is that you're far less likely to get the virus if you're vaccinated in the first place...they also point to breakthrough cases as if they're rampant...they are not, but media makes a big deal out of them so it seems that way.
Basically some...probably many people are confusing shedding the same viral load if vaxed but infected with being vaxed and actually getting infected in the first place. That or they're just being purposefully obtuse or willfully ignorant...which wouldn't really be a shocker either.
It’s actually a conspiracy thing. The belief being that the vaccine itself causes viral shedding in otherwise unexposed people. My mom has a friend who believes if she gets the vaccine she will start shedding spike protein as a result and harm others, particularly women who she believes are made infertile by the spike protein. Since she is a hospice nurse for a baby girl it’s particularly unfortunate. The parents of her client also believe this and have forbidden her to get vaxxed. At least they are willing to isolate and wear masks.10 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.
This is a good point, I'd guess lots of modern children live much more sanitized lives than even 20 or 30 yrs ago. Maybe they're already starting at a deficit.
One of the 3 founders of the Human Microbiome Project always talks about letting his kids play outside. And it has been proven that kids that grow up with dogs have healthier microbiomes, in general. There is a lot to that.
Daughter ended up getting tested for Covid-19. She tested negative. 2 days later, her boyfriend has Covid-19 (tested positive). Same symptoms. Wife was sick for around a week, didn't get tested. I've been sick since Saturday (very, very mild symptoms). Still believe that the wife and daughter caught it on their trip back to Ohio. I'm at the tail end of symptoms, so I'm not bothering to get tested. Just a lot more tired currently. Oxygen never dropped, never had a temp, just horrid headache for two days (worse at night), then mild chest tightness for a day and then it was pretty much gone except feeling run down. Sense of smell seems blunted but not gone.
We all had the Pfizer shot, which while effective at keeping you out of the hospital, they are now saying isn't as effective as the Moderna one at keeping you from getting the Delta variant.
I tried to workout on Tuesday (rowing machine). Did a super light row and then felt like sleeping for 24 hours. So I'm taking most of this week off of working out.13 -
I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.30 -
I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
I feel you. That is not only over half my family, friends, church, but my entire community basically. I'm tired of my family being trapped in my home (low vax rate, low mitigation effort, and high community spread in my area). I'm tired of people being swept up in utter nonsense, but my family being treated like we're weird and wrong.
People here don't care enough about others to mask, they won't get vaccinated, and they don't care if they spread it through the schools. They don't care that we only have 2 pediatric ICU beds left. And that our Children's hospital is almost at capacity.
I just so very tired.
And though I'm sarcastic and jokey by nature, I'm pretty heartsick about it, too.
Covid will probably finally come in our house within the next week. We are all vaccinated except my youngest who can't yet, but my oldest daughter has been in college orientation all week. So even though they have all been masked due to the college mandating them, she's been eating there, and around so many other students for hours and hours. I would be highly surprised if we all don't end up being mildly sick for the first time in almost 2 years next week. I just hope my youngest doesn't end up developing MIS-C. He has bad eczema which has been looking a lot more like psoriasis this year. And I have Sjogren's. My hubby has high BP (familial hypertension). We've bent over backward to do OUR part since March 2020; all we can do now is hope.26 -
https://youtu.be/wCRj3wygulc
John Campbell (UK) that I have been following for over a year in the last half today (14:30) had a guess from France that gave an awesome and detailed update on covid-19 impact on all of France.3 -
baconslave wrote: »We've bent over backward to do OUR part since March 2020; all we can do now is hope.
I hope you and your family stay safe. This sentence got me and is exactly how I am feeling. I went into quarantine as soon as we were told to back in March 2020. I was the first person from my team to go work from home because I was helping care for my frail and dying grandmother. The only time I went anywhere was to go to the grocery and I always went first thing in the morning to stay out of the crowds. I wore masks which meant fighting severe PTSD and anxiety to physically do so. I got vaccinated as soon as I was able to and vaccine #2 knocked me on my butt for 2+ days. I started masking again indoors around here because of the increase in cases.
Yet... it feels like I am being punished. Kind of like when you were in school and some kids in the class were being idiots and the whole class lost recess. Because of a bunch of jerks who won't follow the dang rules and who don't care about anyone but themselves, everyone else has to be punished. But instead of losing recess, people are losing their lives.
I'm just tired. My depression and anxiety have been worse then ever. And I don't have people around me I can turn to because of what is going on with my family.
We are starting to see an impact on ICU bed numbers in the state. Most are non Covid related atm, but with Covid cases going up it is going to strain what is left. So far we are good on vents though.25 -
Last Friday I took my parents to the nearest shelter to adopt a cat. They had to spend an hour inside and were the only ones masked.
Today I went back to curbside adopt a cat for myself. Almost every person coming out of the building wore a mask. At least there is awareness of the rise in cases.
P.S. I picked the cat that had been there the longest. Imagine 7 months in a cage! Now she has my son's old room all to herself until she is socialized with my first cat.25 -
Yet... it feels like I am being punished. Kind of like when you were in school and some kids in the class were being idiots and the whole class lost recess. Because of a bunch of jerks who won't follow the dang rules and who don't care about anyone but themselves, everyone else has to be punished. But instead of losing recess, people are losing their lives.
This, exactly. The rule flouters have gone on with their normal lives to a large extent, other than when completely unavailable because of lockdowns, but gathering and having parties and carrying on like nothing has changed.
My poor father (82) has been almost completely housebound except for medical appointments. I was about to suggest that he might want to try going out a bit more as he's fully vaccinated, but I'm apprehensive about Delta. OTOH, I don't know how much lifespan he has left and it would be pretty sad if his final years end up spent like this.
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I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
Do you NEED to interact with them? Can you take a mental health break from the group chat and unfollow them on Facebook?
I've taken breaks from family members before.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
Do you NEED to interact with them? Can you take a mental health break from the group chat and unfollow them on Facebook?
I've taken breaks from family members before.
I'm on a full-on break from half my family, and have been for a while now. It's just best for everyone. There's a quick check-in text now and then, just to make sure everyone's still alive, but otherwise, I'm out of the loop and better for it. There is a special kind of cult-like fixation that some people seem to have developed over all these conspiracies. All subjects (even ones that start innocently) seem to come back around to the conspiracy weirdness. So you can't even steer the conversation into neutral topics. Because there are no neutral topics anymore. There is literally nothing you can talk about that doesn't trigger them. Not even something previously harmless, like the weather (of course) because that will get them ranting about "the climate change hoax" or the "fake drought in the West." So I just don't talk to them at all. It's been peaceful, though...23 -
DH tried to place his opinions on me the other night; basically he and I feel the same in a lot of ways, pertaining to masking/vax mandates but not this particular opinion. I just said 'then we'll agree to disagree' and that was the end of it.
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kshama2001 wrote: »I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
Do you NEED to interact with them? Can you take a mental health break from the group chat and unfollow them on Facebook?
I've taken breaks from family members before.
I'm on a full-on break from half my family, and have been for a while now. It's just best for everyone. There's a quick check-in text now and then, just to make sure everyone's still alive, but otherwise, I'm out of the loop and better for it. There is a special kind of cult-like fixation that some people seem to have developed over all these conspiracies. All subjects (even ones that start innocently) seem to come back around to the conspiracy weirdness. So you can't even steer the conversation into neutral topics. Because there are no neutral topics anymore. There is literally nothing you can talk about that doesn't trigger them. Not even something previously harmless, like the weather (of course) because that will get them ranting about "the climate change hoax" or the "fake drought in the West." So I just don't talk to them at all. It's been peaceful, though...
Yep. No matter how careful I am picking topics when I visit my parents, there is nothing that can't be tied into the conspiracy. And they will ask me questions about something they heard about the virus, and they seem to be listening and agreeing with me. And then one of them will go, "it's hard for people to trust what these scientists are saying though after they faked all those supposed deaths last year" and I just melt under the table. It's exhausting.
Last week my dad slipped into conversation that the flu kills as many people as covid-19 and I think he was genuinely shocked by the emotion in my "What?! Are you KIDDING me???" The moment of shock gave my mom room to ask me if I'd watched last night's Yankee game and we moved on lol.
I see a lot of masks around here again (central Virginia) and I've noticed a lot of the stores now have signs saying "we strongly recommend wearing a mask on our property" or "we would appreciate you wearing a mask inside to protect our employees". I guess they're trying to find the right way to say - we know you don't want us to force you. But, pretty please? As a super nice favor to us?
UVA announced all students must be vaccinated and have a copy of their card on file (along with all their other vaccine records) and promptly dis-enrolled a small group of students who refused (and I assume had no medical reason for the delay, I didn't read the article carefully). My employer (a national tv broadcasting company) just announced that all employees must be vaccinated by Oct 1. I am starting a new job after Labor Day and the new place is an apartment complex management company, which is much smaller but all the employees got together and decided to go with whatever the most cautious person in the room is comfortable with. All unvaxxed wear masks and several of the vaxxed employees with small children or elderly parents also wear masks in common areas. I feel so fortunate to live in an area where even though there are dramatic political differences from town to town, even the skeptical folks are generally being considerate.18
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