Coronavirus prep

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  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 27,988 Member
    edited August 2021
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    SModa61 wrote: »
    I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt

    My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.

    This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
  • SModa61
    SModa61 Posts: 2,886 Member
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    Antiopelle wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »
    I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt

    Coincidentally, today I read an article in our newspaper that the number of children with RSV has dropped to almost zero, just like the flu in adults and that the hopes were that coming winters we would continue to use masks and precautions when feeling ill.

    Very interesting that there are opposing reports. I wonder if the two are discussing different scenarios. From the way you phrased the summary of your article, it sounds like it might be referencing an approach to zero while in a more protected state. Since I did not see your article, its hard to compare. For the guardian piece, it was definitely addressing the more "open" situation where children are living in a more pre-pandemic lifestyle.
  • SModa61
    SModa61 Posts: 2,886 Member
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    kshama2001 wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »
    I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt

    My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.

    This also effects children outside the current pandemic.

    The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,738 Member
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    SModa61 wrote: »
    Antiopelle wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »
    I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt

    Coincidentally, today I read an article in our newspaper that the number of children with RSV has dropped to almost zero, just like the flu in adults and that the hopes were that coming winters we would continue to use masks and precautions when feeling ill.

    Very interesting that there are opposing reports. I wonder if the two are discussing different scenarios. From the way you phrased the summary of your article, it sounds like it might be referencing an approach to zero while in a more protected state. Since I did not see your article, its hard to compare. For the guardian piece, it was definitely addressing the more "open" situation where children are living in a more pre-pandemic lifestyle.

    To me, that doesn't seem like an opposing report, but - as you say - a different phase, with the "less disease" phase contributing to the "more disease" phase happening among children in some places.

    In the Guardian article you quoted, it says:
    The “immunity debt” phenomenon occurs because measures like lockdowns, hand-washing, social distancing and masks are not only effective at controlling Covid-19. They also suppress the spread of other illnesses that transmit in a similar way, including the flu, common cold, and lesser-known respiratory illnesses like RSA. In New Zealand, lockdowns last winter led to a 99.9% reduction in flu cases and a 98% reduction in RSV - and near-eliminated the spike of excess deaths New Zealand usually experiences during winter.

    “This positive collateral effect in the short term is welcome, as it prevents additional overload of the healthcare system,” a collective of French doctors wrote in a May 2021 study of immunity debt. But in the long term, it can create problems of its own: if bacterial and viral infections aren’t circulating among children, they don’t develop immunity, which leads to larger outbreaks down the line.

    So, during the thick of measures to prevent Covid spread, spread of other contagious diseases drops (probably especially other diseases that exploit the same general contagion mechanisms). Over time, that means individual immunity to all those other diseases drops among the community affected (through lack of immune system being exercised, metaphorically). When things open back up, those people with lowered immunity to various diseases are exposed to those diseases again, and get sick in numbers.

    I'm not a medical expert, but I'd assume the effect would be stronger among children, whose immune systems are still developing in a more general sense, compared to adults.
    SModa61 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »
    I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt

    My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.

    This also effects children outside the current pandemic.

    The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.

    I'm wondering whether the reduced exposure (to many diseases or pathogens) among children during the pandemic will have long term consequence for them - whether there's some aspect of immune system development that can't be readily or fully recovered via future exposures, after some critical development window. Certainly there are signs that development of certain other capabilities in children (like language acquisition) have critical developmental windows, with any deficits harder to make up at a later age.

    My mother always thought that being *too* anti-germ compulsive with children would increase their chances of developing allergies and such as they grew, though I don't believe there was any science to support that at the time (1950s-60s). IMU, there's now some evidence that that could have an element of truth.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    SModa61 wrote: »
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    SModa61 wrote: »
    I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt

    My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.

    This also effects children outside the current pandemic.

    The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.

    This is a good point, I'd guess lots of modern children live much more sanitized lives than even 20 or 30 yrs ago. Maybe they're already starting at a deficit.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    edited August 2021
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    https://youtu.be/wCRj3wygulc

    John Campbell (UK) that I have been following for over a year in the last half today (14:30) had a guess from France that gave an awesome and detailed update on covid-19 impact on all of France.