Coronavirus prep
Replies
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I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.2 -
Antiopelle wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
Coincidentally, today I read an article in our newspaper that the number of children with RSV has dropped to almost zero, just like the flu in adults and that the hopes were that coming winters we would continue to use masks and precautions when feeling ill.
Very interesting that there are opposing reports. I wonder if the two are discussing different scenarios. From the way you phrased the summary of your article, it sounds like it might be referencing an approach to zero while in a more protected state. Since I did not see your article, its hard to compare. For the guardian piece, it was definitely addressing the more "open" situation where children are living in a more pre-pandemic lifestyle.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.3 -
Antiopelle wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
Coincidentally, today I read an article in our newspaper that the number of children with RSV has dropped to almost zero, just like the flu in adults and that the hopes were that coming winters we would continue to use masks and precautions when feeling ill.
Very interesting that there are opposing reports. I wonder if the two are discussing different scenarios. From the way you phrased the summary of your article, it sounds like it might be referencing an approach to zero while in a more protected state. Since I did not see your article, its hard to compare. For the guardian piece, it was definitely addressing the more "open" situation where children are living in a more pre-pandemic lifestyle.
To me, that doesn't seem like an opposing report, but - as you say - a different phase, with the "less disease" phase contributing to the "more disease" phase happening among children in some places.
In the Guardian article you quoted, it says:The “immunity debt” phenomenon occurs because measures like lockdowns, hand-washing, social distancing and masks are not only effective at controlling Covid-19. They also suppress the spread of other illnesses that transmit in a similar way, including the flu, common cold, and lesser-known respiratory illnesses like RSA. In New Zealand, lockdowns last winter led to a 99.9% reduction in flu cases and a 98% reduction in RSV - and near-eliminated the spike of excess deaths New Zealand usually experiences during winter.
“This positive collateral effect in the short term is welcome, as it prevents additional overload of the healthcare system,” a collective of French doctors wrote in a May 2021 study of immunity debt. But in the long term, it can create problems of its own: if bacterial and viral infections aren’t circulating among children, they don’t develop immunity, which leads to larger outbreaks down the line.
So, during the thick of measures to prevent Covid spread, spread of other contagious diseases drops (probably especially other diseases that exploit the same general contagion mechanisms). Over time, that means individual immunity to all those other diseases drops among the community affected (through lack of immune system being exercised, metaphorically). When things open back up, those people with lowered immunity to various diseases are exposed to those diseases again, and get sick in numbers.
I'm not a medical expert, but I'd assume the effect would be stronger among children, whose immune systems are still developing in a more general sense, compared to adults.kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.
I'm wondering whether the reduced exposure (to many diseases or pathogens) among children during the pandemic will have long term consequence for them - whether there's some aspect of immune system development that can't be readily or fully recovered via future exposures, after some critical development window. Certainly there are signs that development of certain other capabilities in children (like language acquisition) have critical developmental windows, with any deficits harder to make up at a later age.
My mother always thought that being *too* anti-germ compulsive with children would increase their chances of developing allergies and such as they grew, though I don't believe there was any science to support that at the time (1950s-60s). IMU, there's now some evidence that that could have an element of truth.2 -
I just had a strange encounter. Went to town to buy chicken feed, had to go inside (and because I'm back on high alert) I was wearing my P100 mask. Young man at the counter said, "that won't help, if you got the vaccine you're going to get it."
I shrugged and said I won't be breathing it in. My takeaway from that was he wasn't vaccinated and wasn't taking any precautions.
So, is this one of the conspiracy theories? That the vaccines are spreading covid?5 -
I just had a strange encounter. Went to town to buy chicken feed, had to go inside (and because I'm back on high alert) I was wearing my P100 mask. Young man at the counter said, "that won't help, if you got the vaccine you're going to get it."
I shrugged and said I won't be breathing it in. My takeaway from that was he wasn't vaccinated and wasn't taking any precautions.
So, is this one of the conspiracy theories? That the vaccines are spreading covid?
I don't know if it's a conspiracy or a huge misunderstanding that people have. The CDC has stated that vaccinated individuals can shed the same viral load as an unvaccinated person if they are infected...which is true. The part people seem to forget or not read or pay attention to is that you're far less likely to get the virus if you're vaccinated in the first place...they also point to breakthrough cases as if they're rampant...they are not, but media makes a big deal out of them so it seems that way.
Basically some...probably many people are confusing shedding the same viral load if vaxed but infected with being vaxed and actually getting infected in the first place. That or they're just being purposefully obtuse or willfully ignorant...which wouldn't really be a shocker either.10 -
That's interesting. The TWIV virologists said that we don't realize how many bugs we come in contact with, even just in our homes, and unless you've been in a hermetically sealed bubble, the typical pandemic stay-at-home would not make an appreciable difference to your immune system. But perhaps they were talking about adults and not children, and in the US specifically.
I also know many parents (at least here in the US) still allowed their children to play with neighborhood kids. Heck, at one point people were throwing covid parties. I'd think immune system issues would be specific to areas that had a very prohibitive long term lockdown or parents who really did keep their children isolated from other children. Even masked kids are still no doubt touching their eyes, nose, and mouth all the time. My nephews had strep several times over the last year and got covered in mud and bugs in the backyard and going camping!5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.
This is a good point, I'd guess lots of modern children live much more sanitized lives than even 20 or 30 yrs ago. Maybe they're already starting at a deficit.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I just had a strange encounter. Went to town to buy chicken feed, had to go inside (and because I'm back on high alert) I was wearing my P100 mask. Young man at the counter said, "that won't help, if you got the vaccine you're going to get it."
I shrugged and said I won't be breathing it in. My takeaway from that was he wasn't vaccinated and wasn't taking any precautions.
So, is this one of the conspiracy theories? That the vaccines are spreading covid?
I don't know if it's a conspiracy or a huge misunderstanding that people have. The CDC has stated that vaccinated individuals can shed the same viral load as an unvaccinated person if they are infected...which is true. The part people seem to forget or not read or pay attention to is that you're far less likely to get the virus if you're vaccinated in the first place...they also point to breakthrough cases as if they're rampant...they are not, but media makes a big deal out of them so it seems that way.
Basically some...probably many people are confusing shedding the same viral load if vaxed but infected with being vaxed and actually getting infected in the first place. That or they're just being purposefully obtuse or willfully ignorant...which wouldn't really be a shocker either.
It’s actually a conspiracy thing. The belief being that the vaccine itself causes viral shedding in otherwise unexposed people. My mom has a friend who believes if she gets the vaccine she will start shedding spike protein as a result and harm others, particularly women who she believes are made infertile by the spike protein. Since she is a hospice nurse for a baby girl it’s particularly unfortunate. The parents of her client also believe this and have forbidden her to get vaxxed. At least they are willing to isolate and wear masks.10 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I decided to see what additional info the internet had on the NZ situation. I came across an unexpected article. It’s content applies to all of us, not just NZ. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/08/new-zealand-children-falling-ill-in-high-numbers-due-to-covid-immunity-debt
My mother did a superb job exposing us to germs when we were kids, lol.
This also effects children outside the current pandemic.
The way I raised my kids, I am embarrassed to say, they should have a really great immune system. I have also wondered, even outside the pandemic, if the kids total are not as exposed to germs as past generations have and what, if any, consequences will arise.
This is a good point, I'd guess lots of modern children live much more sanitized lives than even 20 or 30 yrs ago. Maybe they're already starting at a deficit.
One of the 3 founders of the Human Microbiome Project always talks about letting his kids play outside. And it has been proven that kids that grow up with dogs have healthier microbiomes, in general. There is a lot to that.
Daughter ended up getting tested for Covid-19. She tested negative. 2 days later, her boyfriend has Covid-19 (tested positive). Same symptoms. Wife was sick for around a week, didn't get tested. I've been sick since Saturday (very, very mild symptoms). Still believe that the wife and daughter caught it on their trip back to Ohio. I'm at the tail end of symptoms, so I'm not bothering to get tested. Just a lot more tired currently. Oxygen never dropped, never had a temp, just horrid headache for two days (worse at night), then mild chest tightness for a day and then it was pretty much gone except feeling run down. Sense of smell seems blunted but not gone.
We all had the Pfizer shot, which while effective at keeping you out of the hospital, they are now saying isn't as effective as the Moderna one at keeping you from getting the Delta variant.
I tried to workout on Tuesday (rowing machine). Did a super light row and then felt like sleeping for 24 hours. So I'm taking most of this week off of working out.13 -
I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.30 -
I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
I feel you. That is not only over half my family, friends, church, but my entire community basically. I'm tired of my family being trapped in my home (low vax rate, low mitigation effort, and high community spread in my area). I'm tired of people being swept up in utter nonsense, but my family being treated like we're weird and wrong.
People here don't care enough about others to mask, they won't get vaccinated, and they don't care if they spread it through the schools. They don't care that we only have 2 pediatric ICU beds left. And that our Children's hospital is almost at capacity.
I just so very tired.
And though I'm sarcastic and jokey by nature, I'm pretty heartsick about it, too.
Covid will probably finally come in our house within the next week. We are all vaccinated except my youngest who can't yet, but my oldest daughter has been in college orientation all week. So even though they have all been masked due to the college mandating them, she's been eating there, and around so many other students for hours and hours. I would be highly surprised if we all don't end up being mildly sick for the first time in almost 2 years next week. I just hope my youngest doesn't end up developing MIS-C. He has bad eczema which has been looking a lot more like psoriasis this year. And I have Sjogren's. My hubby has high BP (familial hypertension). We've bent over backward to do OUR part since March 2020; all we can do now is hope.26 -
https://youtu.be/wCRj3wygulc
John Campbell (UK) that I have been following for over a year in the last half today (14:30) had a guess from France that gave an awesome and detailed update on covid-19 impact on all of France.3 -
baconslave wrote: »We've bent over backward to do OUR part since March 2020; all we can do now is hope.
I hope you and your family stay safe. This sentence got me and is exactly how I am feeling. I went into quarantine as soon as we were told to back in March 2020. I was the first person from my team to go work from home because I was helping care for my frail and dying grandmother. The only time I went anywhere was to go to the grocery and I always went first thing in the morning to stay out of the crowds. I wore masks which meant fighting severe PTSD and anxiety to physically do so. I got vaccinated as soon as I was able to and vaccine #2 knocked me on my butt for 2+ days. I started masking again indoors around here because of the increase in cases.
Yet... it feels like I am being punished. Kind of like when you were in school and some kids in the class were being idiots and the whole class lost recess. Because of a bunch of jerks who won't follow the dang rules and who don't care about anyone but themselves, everyone else has to be punished. But instead of losing recess, people are losing their lives.
I'm just tired. My depression and anxiety have been worse then ever. And I don't have people around me I can turn to because of what is going on with my family.
We are starting to see an impact on ICU bed numbers in the state. Most are non Covid related atm, but with Covid cases going up it is going to strain what is left. So far we are good on vents though.25 -
Last Friday I took my parents to the nearest shelter to adopt a cat. They had to spend an hour inside and were the only ones masked.
Today I went back to curbside adopt a cat for myself. Almost every person coming out of the building wore a mask. At least there is awareness of the rise in cases.
P.S. I picked the cat that had been there the longest. Imagine 7 months in a cage! Now she has my son's old room all to herself until she is socialized with my first cat.25 -
Yet... it feels like I am being punished. Kind of like when you were in school and some kids in the class were being idiots and the whole class lost recess. Because of a bunch of jerks who won't follow the dang rules and who don't care about anyone but themselves, everyone else has to be punished. But instead of losing recess, people are losing their lives.
This, exactly. The rule flouters have gone on with their normal lives to a large extent, other than when completely unavailable because of lockdowns, but gathering and having parties and carrying on like nothing has changed.
My poor father (82) has been almost completely housebound except for medical appointments. I was about to suggest that he might want to try going out a bit more as he's fully vaccinated, but I'm apprehensive about Delta. OTOH, I don't know how much lifespan he has left and it would be pretty sad if his final years end up spent like this.
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I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
Do you NEED to interact with them? Can you take a mental health break from the group chat and unfollow them on Facebook?
I've taken breaks from family members before.9 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
Do you NEED to interact with them? Can you take a mental health break from the group chat and unfollow them on Facebook?
I've taken breaks from family members before.
I'm on a full-on break from half my family, and have been for a while now. It's just best for everyone. There's a quick check-in text now and then, just to make sure everyone's still alive, but otherwise, I'm out of the loop and better for it. There is a special kind of cult-like fixation that some people seem to have developed over all these conspiracies. All subjects (even ones that start innocently) seem to come back around to the conspiracy weirdness. So you can't even steer the conversation into neutral topics. Because there are no neutral topics anymore. There is literally nothing you can talk about that doesn't trigger them. Not even something previously harmless, like the weather (of course) because that will get them ranting about "the climate change hoax" or the "fake drought in the West." So I just don't talk to them at all. It's been peaceful, though...23 -
DH tried to place his opinions on me the other night; basically he and I feel the same in a lot of ways, pertaining to masking/vax mandates but not this particular opinion. I just said 'then we'll agree to disagree' and that was the end of it.
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kshama2001 wrote: »I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
Do you NEED to interact with them? Can you take a mental health break from the group chat and unfollow them on Facebook?
I've taken breaks from family members before.
I'm on a full-on break from half my family, and have been for a while now. It's just best for everyone. There's a quick check-in text now and then, just to make sure everyone's still alive, but otherwise, I'm out of the loop and better for it. There is a special kind of cult-like fixation that some people seem to have developed over all these conspiracies. All subjects (even ones that start innocently) seem to come back around to the conspiracy weirdness. So you can't even steer the conversation into neutral topics. Because there are no neutral topics anymore. There is literally nothing you can talk about that doesn't trigger them. Not even something previously harmless, like the weather (of course) because that will get them ranting about "the climate change hoax" or the "fake drought in the West." So I just don't talk to them at all. It's been peaceful, though...
Yep. No matter how careful I am picking topics when I visit my parents, there is nothing that can't be tied into the conspiracy. And they will ask me questions about something they heard about the virus, and they seem to be listening and agreeing with me. And then one of them will go, "it's hard for people to trust what these scientists are saying though after they faked all those supposed deaths last year" and I just melt under the table. It's exhausting.
Last week my dad slipped into conversation that the flu kills as many people as covid-19 and I think he was genuinely shocked by the emotion in my "What?! Are you KIDDING me???" The moment of shock gave my mom room to ask me if I'd watched last night's Yankee game and we moved on lol.
I see a lot of masks around here again (central Virginia) and I've noticed a lot of the stores now have signs saying "we strongly recommend wearing a mask on our property" or "we would appreciate you wearing a mask inside to protect our employees". I guess they're trying to find the right way to say - we know you don't want us to force you. But, pretty please? As a super nice favor to us?
UVA announced all students must be vaccinated and have a copy of their card on file (along with all their other vaccine records) and promptly dis-enrolled a small group of students who refused (and I assume had no medical reason for the delay, I didn't read the article carefully). My employer (a national tv broadcasting company) just announced that all employees must be vaccinated by Oct 1. I am starting a new job after Labor Day and the new place is an apartment complex management company, which is much smaller but all the employees got together and decided to go with whatever the most cautious person in the room is comfortable with. All unvaxxed wear masks and several of the vaxxed employees with small children or elderly parents also wear masks in common areas. I feel so fortunate to live in an area where even though there are dramatic political differences from town to town, even the skeptical folks are generally being considerate.18 -
baconslave wrote: »We've bent over backward to do OUR part since March 2020; all we can do now is hope.
Yet... it feels like I am being punished. Kind of like when you were in school and some kids in the class were being idiots and the whole class lost recess. Because of a bunch of jerks who won't follow the dang rules and who don't care about anyone but themselves, everyone else has to be punished. But instead of losing recess, people are losing their lives.
It does feel like that. More than a bit.
My whole community has been like this (semi-rural TN).
Yet... it feels like I am being punished. Kind of like when you were in school and some kids in the class were being idiots and the whole class lost recess. Because of a bunch of jerks who won't follow the dang rules and who don't care about anyone but themselves, everyone else has to be punished. But instead of losing recess, people are losing their lives.
This, exactly. The rule flouters have gone on with their normal lives to a large extent, other than when completely unavailable because of lockdowns, but gathering and having parties and carrying on like nothing has changed.
My poor father (82) has been almost completely housebound except for medical appointments. I was about to suggest that he might want to try going out a bit more as he's fully vaccinated, but I'm apprehensive about Delta. OTOH, I don't know how much lifespan he has left and it would be pretty sad if his final years end up spent like this.
I feel for your Dad.
This has been hard on my teens. Watching everyone on Instagram posting all their parties and fun or hearing them talking on Discord about them in the case of my son. While they're at home for a year and a half. My oldest's senior year and first year of college were spent at home on a computer. She lost an internship working in her chosen field that had to be cancelled since viral spread didn't get handled. That opportunity is gone forever. My daughter is at college orientation, a special one for the sophomores who had theirs cancelled last year. I had to let her do it for her mental health. She needs to socialize and network. She is masking. But I'm waiting for her to bring home the Delta variant to my ineligible kid. My teen son has nothing still. His dual enrollment class is unfortunately an online class. All his friends were at church. But the church gave up on mitigation efforts awhile ago. His friends never masked or distanced. He is pretty chill but he's on the verge of crisis himself, I think.
My younger 2 (10 &12) spend their free time watching video game YouTubes and playing Roblox or Minecraft. That's all they have had for 1.5 years. Their public schooled friends got bored with Discord in the spring when they went back to school fulltime.
It's just like every stupid group project I had to work on in school. I ended up doing the work, while others messed around, did the bare minimum they had to (usually shoddy quality) or nothing at all, and I was working my butt off on it and up the night before the deadline making an A out of it.
Here we are, some people doing all the work to try to help this awfulness be over, and a large group doing nothing besides spreading the virus faster. Last night all over the local news I got treated to images of full stands at high school football games. Zero masks and all sitting close enough to touch. Mask mandates have been hamstrung here. First, they threatened the schools if they put them in place. Then, when schools felt they needed to do it anyway, the Governor intervened. You can mandate them in schools, but parents get to opt their kids out thanks to an Executive Order. Covid had a great time with a hoarde of folks at football games all over the region last night. We were at home. Doing the same thing we've done, trying to get the best result for our family, community, and country, and finally make this all be over, while everyone else messes around, with some sabotaging the results. Will this ever be over? All hands definitely aren't on deck so we'll continue to limp along. As our pediatrician commiserated with us as we despaired over the low vaccination rate here and the beginning of the surge we are in, "this could have all been over by now."
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A hug does not say enough.11
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OK - I know I am going to get my normal 3 disagrees but here is my unpopular opinion.
I think requiring proof of vax or negative covid test to attend large events is useless in halting the spread of covid here in Tx.
Esp if the vax is >6 months old. Right now it's blooming like algae here and a lot of the vax are >6 months. The latest studies out of Israel seem to point to Pfizer protection dropping off radically after that time period. My guess is the others are similar. Why the CDC is coming out with 8 months seems a too conservative to me.
I understand that if you are vaxxed you are less likely to get seriously ill or hospitalized but with so many not vaccinated the spread continues. Esp with kids back in school this week.
Just today on my next door a poor gal was saying her kid was sick and she was unable to NOT go to work (to feed hundreds of people). She was having trouble getting him tested. Her situation is horrific for her. She has no insurance and can't afford to miss work. So will she be a spreader? most likely. Most of the stories I am seeing are younger kids getting the "stomach" virus. The ones that do get tested are mostly positive. Our positivity rate here is thru the roof. Usually after the kids get it the rest of the family does also. Because I mean what parent can isolate from a sick young child?
Will this never end?21 -
SummerSkier wrote: »OK - I know I am going to get my normal 3 disagrees but here is my unpopular opinion.
I think requiring proof of vax or negative covid test to attend large events is useless in halting the spread of covid here in Tx.
Esp if the vax is >6 months old. Right now it's blooming like algae here and a lot of the vax are >6 months. The latest studies out of Israel seem to point to Pfizer protection dropping off radically after that time period. My guess is the others are similar. Why the CDC is coming out with 8 months seems a too conservative to me.
I understand that if you are vaxxed you are less likely to get seriously ill or hospitalized but with so many not vaccinated the spread continues. Esp with kids back in school this week.
Just today on my next door a poor gal was saying her kid was sick and she was unable to NOT go to work (to feed hundreds of people). She was having trouble getting him tested. Her situation is horrific for her. She has no insurance and can't afford to miss work. So will she be a spreader? most likely. Most of the stories I am seeing are younger kids getting the "stomach" virus. The ones that do get tested are mostly positive. Our positivity rate here is thru the roof. Usually after the kids get it the rest of the family does also. Because I mean what parent can isolate from a sick young child?
Will this never end?
Remember that each report that comes out is not yet peer reviewed like we normally expect them to be. While the numbers coming out of Israel suggest a drop off, data coming from other countries is very different. The difficulty for public health officials is they know the data can be misleading but they can't wait til it's thoroughly vetted because in the meantime people could get sick and die. They also have to balance in the unequal distribution of vaccine and healthcare access and keeping records on who's been vaccinated with what and how many times and who gets which side effects where.
Looking at previous pandemics, it takes several years to study the new virus, work through the data, and come up with the most effective prevention, treatment, and return to a new normal. It doesn't make it easier to get through in the moment, but we have actually learned a lot about this virus and created baseline vaccines and treatment protocols in a stunningly fast manner.
Your neighbor is in an unfairly tough situation. It's awful that in this day and age people don't have paid time off to care for family and access to affordable wellness care and testing. I'm sure it's a big contributor to a lot of the spread and vaccine hesitancy in working class communities. I read somewhere that many people w/o health insurance hear that the vaccine is free but assume that's only for people with insurance. And some of the chain pharmacies ask for your insurance card even though it's not necessary and scare uninsured people away.
This is all super stressful and scary, I'm sure moreso for people who have children or are at very high risk. I think we're going to have to get thru a tough fall and winter before the medical, public health, and research communities can really put all the pieces together and also get enough people properly vaccinated.
I don't mean to be a pollyanna, but I know the news is always focused on the bad stuff and I hope I'm reminding people that there are a lot of people working really hard behind the scenes to get us through this and it's a messy process that rarely gets reported accurately. Hang in there.14 -
https://youtu.be/20DxL8KhvgA
Starting at 23:40 is a detailed report from MS (USA).
In the first part Dr. Campbell covers the research of extra long term protection for those that get Covid-19 before or after being fully vaccinated. The pandemic should be moving to endemic mode when all are vaccinated and/or actually have Covid-19.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I think I am just done. I'm tired of it all.
I have multiple family members who won't get the vaccine and don't believe in mask mandates. They keep posting conspiracy stuff in the family group chat or on Facebook. I have to bite my tongue to keep the peace but it is getting to the point where I dread any interaction with them. I just don't understand how these otherwise intelligent people can fall for anti science nonsense like this. I love my family, but right now I don't like them very much and it is causing me stress and anxiety.
People have just gone stupid. I would have thought kids being hospitalized and dying would wake more people up, but no.
Do you NEED to interact with them? Can you take a mental health break from the group chat and unfollow them on Facebook?
I've taken breaks from family members before.
I am not friends with some family on Facebook because they are conspiracy theorists. I hear from other family that describes the stuff they post. That's enough.12 -
SummerSkier wrote: »OK - I know I am going to get my normal 3 disagrees but here is my unpopular opinion.
I think requiring proof of vax or negative covid test to attend large events is useless in halting the spread of covid here in Tx.
It seemed to work pretty well in Chicago.
I am at this point strongly in favor of all possible vax mandates. I think people who haven't been vaxxed are responsible for this not being over and I have no more sympathy for them.
Boosters are great if recommended, but a much bigger issue is people refusing to get vaxxed.
Our numbers still show that vaxxed people aren't needing to be hospitalized or dying other than in tiny numbers.
Also, here, anyone who wants to be tested can be, it's open to all. It's not nearly as bad as it was in 2020, despite the ridiculous irresponsible people not vaxxing, but we were pretty bad (due to density) in 2020.
12 -
Also, to show how different locations or social circles are different, I know only one person who is refusing the vax, whereas the vast majority of my friends/acquaintances/family members were rushing to get vaxxed, including the Rs.9
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I worry mostly about the children who haven't reached the right age yet to be vaccinated. And about the children whose parents are making choices for them that might not be making the best choice.
Children pretty much have very little say.
If adults don't want to vaccinate, then that's on them if things turn out badly. But I loathe thinking of all the ones whom they may infect along the way.
A question about Texas and schools reopening.....I have a nephew whose 2 children are back in school and masks haven't been mandated yet the Numbers are climbing terribly. Why no mandates? Last year, their school didn't require masks either; in fact, my nephew's 2 children were the only 2 children in their class picture, wearing masks.
Here, I know they're at least going into the year masking up and seeing how it goes.7 -
SummerSkier wrote: »OK - I know I am going to get my normal 3 disagrees but here is my unpopular opinion.
I think requiring proof of vax or negative covid test to attend large events is useless in halting the spread of covid here in Tx.
Esp if the vax is >6 months old. Right now it's blooming like algae here and a lot of the vax are >6 months. The latest studies out of Israel seem to point to Pfizer protection dropping off radically after that time period. My guess is the others are similar. Why the CDC is coming out with 8 months seems a too conservative to me.
I understand that if you are vaxxed you are less likely to get seriously ill or hospitalized but with so many not vaccinated the spread continues. Esp with kids back in school this week.
Just today on my next door a poor gal was saying her kid was sick and she was unable to NOT go to work (to feed hundreds of people). She was having trouble getting him tested. Her situation is horrific for her. She has no insurance and can't afford to miss work. So will she be a spreader? most likely. Most of the stories I am seeing are younger kids getting the "stomach" virus. The ones that do get tested are mostly positive. Our positivity rate here is thru the roof. Usually after the kids get it the rest of the family does also. Because I mean what parent can isolate from a sick young child?
Will this never end?
It will end when a large % of the population is vaccinated...or at least be very much under control.
In NM we have a high % of vaxed people...around 70% of eligible. We are surging in cases and hospitalizations, the vast majority of which are unvaxed people. When I look at the county by county data, it's pockets of the usual suspects who lean a certain way politically and have fought against masks and the vaccine since the beginning.
As long as there are a bunch of unvaxed people out there running around and doing stuff, this thing will just keep going.12
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