Coronavirus prep
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So, the two big Memphis hospital chains, Baptist and Methodist, are calling for National Guard to help out with staffing shortages due to a large number of Covid patients plus staff sick with Covid. It’s starting to get real.13
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What I’m hearing regarding the 8 months is that they believe longer delays creates more lasting immunity due to the immune system “maturing” after the first two shots.SummerSkier wrote: »OK - I know I am going to get my normal 3 disagrees but here is my unpopular opinion.
I think requiring proof of vax or negative covid test to attend large events is useless in halting the spread of covid here in Tx.
Esp if the vax is >6 months old. Right now it's blooming like algae here and a lot of the vax are >6 months. The latest studies out of Israel seem to point to Pfizer protection dropping off radically after that time period. My guess is the others are similar. Why the CDC is coming out with 8 months seems a too conservative to me.
I understand that if you are vaxxed you are less likely to get seriously ill or hospitalized but with so many not vaccinated the spread continues. Esp with kids back in school this week.
Just today on my next door a poor gal was saying her kid was sick and she was unable to NOT go to work (to feed hundreds of people). She was having trouble getting him tested. Her situation is horrific for her. She has no insurance and can't afford to miss work. So will she be a spreader? most likely. Most of the stories I am seeing are younger kids getting the "stomach" virus. The ones that do get tested are mostly positive. Our positivity rate here is thru the roof. Usually after the kids get it the rest of the family does also. Because I mean what parent can isolate from a sick young child?
Will this never end?
However, I also have this sinking sensation that it’s mainly to give them time to get the system ready for a third wave of shots.
Unfortunately after the early days of the pandemic when the CDC admitted they lied about the effectiveness of masks in order to prevent a civilian run on masks, I don’t fully trust them not to be trying to manipulate public behavior by saying what they think we need to hear. My check for this is generally to look at news and research from other parts of the world, but in this case, there’s not really enough information coming out of other parts of the world to form an opinion. We know from Israel that they are seeing increased hospitalizations in people who were vaxxed five months ago, which contradicts the “after six months it’s still very effective against hospitalization” we’re being told here.
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Just reporting for info: One of my friends, seriously immunocompromised from a combo of multiple health conditions complicated by the drug regimens to treat them, got the 3rd shot (booster) in the last few days.
Because the staffs, systems, and procedures haven't caught up with the recent recommendation for this, it was a pretty significant hassle finding someplace to schedule the 3rd shot, and then (once there) to actually get it. She had to try more than one vax site to find one willing. Fortunately, like many people with complex health conditions, she's a very good bureaucracy wrangler.
So she got it. Aftereffects: Sore arm, maybe a little fatigue, overall not as severe symptoms as the 2nd shot, for her. N= 1.
I presume (hope) the vax sites will be better prepared, handle it more smoothly, once regular folks are eligible for the 3rd shot 8 months after the second.
Unless they modify the rules, I won't be eligible until sometime in November, I think.
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I worry mostly about the children who haven't reached the right age yet to be vaccinated. And about the children whose parents are making choices for them that might not be making the best choice.
Children pretty much have very little say.
If adults don't want to vaccinate, then that's on them if things turn out badly. But I loathe thinking of all the ones whom they may infect along the way.
A question about Texas and schools reopening.....I have a nephew whose 2 children are back in school and masks haven't been mandated yet the Numbers are climbing terribly. Why no mandates? Last year, their school didn't require masks either; in fact, my nephew's 2 children were the only 2 children in their class picture, wearing masks.
Here, I know they're at least going into the year masking up and seeing how it goes.
In Texas, there are legal battles because the Governor has said schools cannot require masks, and some school districts have required masks. It then comes to a question of whose authority holds more weight. Last I heard, the Texas Supreme Court is allowing school districts to make mask mandates if they want, but only until the cases are decided. Wasn't this a similar legal issue in the Des Moines, Iowa public schools last year?0 -
I think the Des Moines issue was in person vs online. She said so much percentage of classes had to be in person. (Don’t remember the exact percentage) Our governor signed a bill the end of May that schools cannot do a mask mandate. Schools start here on Tuesday.3
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Remember that each report that comes out is not yet peer reviewed like we normally expect them to be. While the numbers coming out of Israel suggest a drop off, data coming from other countries is very different. The difficulty for public health officials is they know the data can be misleading but they can't wait til it's thoroughly vetted because in the meantime people could get sick and die. They also have to balance in the unequal distribution of vaccine and healthcare access and keeping records on who's been vaccinated with what and how many times and who gets which side effects where.
Looking at previous pandemics, it takes several years to study the new virus, work through the data, and come up with the most effective prevention, treatment, and return to a new normal. It doesn't make it easier to get through in the moment, but we have actually learned a lot about this virus and created baseline vaccines and treatment protocols in a stunningly fast manner.
Your neighbor is in an unfairly tough situation. It's awful that in this day and age people don't have paid time off to care for family and access to affordable wellness care and testing. I'm sure it's a big contributor to a lot of the spread and vaccine hesitancy in working class communities. I read somewhere that many people w/o health insurance hear that the vaccine is free but assume that's only for people with insurance. And some of the chain pharmacies ask for your insurance card even though it's not necessary and scare uninsured people away.
This is all super stressful and scary, I'm sure moreso for people who have children or are at very high risk. I think we're going to have to get thru a tough fall and winter before the medical, public health, and research communities can really put all the pieces together and also get enough people properly vaccinated.
I don't mean to be a pollyanna, but I know the news is always focused on the bad stuff and I hope I'm reminding people that there are a lot of people working really hard behind the scenes to get us through this and it's a messy process that rarely gets reported accurately. Hang in there.
I agree with you about what a shame it is if uninsured people are scared away by being asked for an insurance card, but my impression is that pharmacies or doctor's office are allowed to charge the insurer for the cost of administering the vaccine, although not for the vaccine itself (think of it as parts v. labor when you get your car worked on). But they're not allowed to charge uninsured individuals for administering the vaccine (labor).5 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
I agree with you about what a shame it is if uninsured people are scared away by being asked for an insurance card, but my impression is that pharmacies or doctor's office are allowed to charge the insurer for the cost of administering the vaccine, although not for the vaccine itself (think of it as parts v. labor when you get your car worked on). But they're not allowed to charge uninsured individuals for administering the vaccine (labor).
This is what I understand. They are free to the patient, but who pays (government of insurance) can vary. Interestingly, hubby had COVID test due to symptoms two weeks ago. Clearly stated insurance was to be presented upon arrival, but then they never asked for it. It was a chain pharmacy so maybe our data was in their system. We did not ask. For our vaccinations, we did give our insurance cards.
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It's actually easy here in Tx to get a booster. I was just talking to one of my friends yesterday morning about it (she is immuno compromised) and got her 2nd shot in Feb I think. She was able to walk right in to the pharmacy and get her booster yesterday afternoon. It will be interesting to see if she has any reaction to the 3rd. So far all reports I have heard are just arm soreness and nothing like the 2nd shot. She got Moderna I think. (and looks like that poster was quite successful in getting the other thread shut down).
On another note maybe MORE people will be encouraged to and will be able to get the antibodies now that our Governor has made them more in the news again.6 -
This is what I understand. They are free to the patient, but who pays (government of insurance) can vary. Interestingly, hubby had COVID test due to symptoms two weeks ago. Clearly stated insurance was to be presented upon arrival, but then they never asked for it. It was a chain pharmacy so maybe our data was in their system. We did not ask. For our vaccinations, we did give our insurance cards.
Got a couple letters from our insurance company saying if we got bill from a doctor for $1,065 each we should contact the insurance company and they would hold up harmless and fight the bills for us. We looked at the dates of service and realized it was when we go Covid tests (our tests were done at a "free" county health dept drive through clinic).
We had the tests back in January and never received any bill but apparently some had.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
I agree with you about what a shame it is if uninsured people are scared away by being asked for an insurance card, but my impression is that pharmacies or doctor's office are allowed to charge the insurer for the cost of administering the vaccine, although not for the vaccine itself (think of it as parts v. labor when you get your car worked on). But they're not allowed to charge uninsured individuals for administering the vaccine (labor).
That's a good point. Maybe it's the way it's asked, or just that uninsured people are already jumpy about getting stuck with a bill and even an innocent question scares them away and starts the rumor mill up!3 -
Interesting. I JUST got a claim today on my insurance for 100$ for something March 15 2021. I looked it up and it was my first Pfizer shot. Insurance paid $16 and I am being billed for the rest? I thought these vaccines were free to us? hmmmm5
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SummerSkier wrote: »Interesting. I JUST got a claim today on my insurance for 100$ for something March 15 2021. I looked it up and it was my first Pfizer shot. Insurance paid $16 and I am being billed for the rest? I thought these vaccines were free to us? hmmmm
I believe you should be able to dispute that.7 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »
Got a couple letters from our insurance company saying if we got bill from a doctor for $1,065 each we should contact the insurance company and they would hold up harmless and fight the bills for us. We looked at the dates of service and realized it was when we go Covid tests (our tests were done at a "free" county health dept drive through clinic).
We had the tests back in January and never received any bill but apparently some had.
@Theoldguy1 How odd/interesting. All I can add is how testing it worked in Massachusetts in 2020/early 2021. In massachusetts, if you had symptoms or known exposure, there was testing for that. Insurance covered insured and I thought that uninsured were covered by federal government. (am I wrong about that?) Then specifically in Mass, there was state sponsored free testing for asymptomatic people, at specific sites. The few times DH and I needed it, due to returning to the state after travel, we chose to go to private facilities where we had to pay. It was $100+ for the test. We chose that route to avoid multiple hour long lines. Even if yours was not covered (ie no symptoms or known exposure), the $1000+ price sounds abusive to me.
@summerskier I am also shocked that you might be being billed for your vaccination. Ours vax were end march and mid april for Pfizer, so I am curious if a bill is coming our way.0 -
If you do get a bill it's an error/illegal, so you can definitely fight it.5
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That's a good point. Maybe it's the way it's asked, or just that uninsured people are already jumpy about getting stuck with a bill and even an innocent question scares them away and starts the rumor mill up!
Absolutely -- I only meant that there could be a legitimate reason to ask, but definitely the providers and admin people should be aware of this issue and do whatever they can to explain and reassure potential vaccine recipients.4 -
SummerSkier wrote: »Interesting. I JUST got a claim today on my insurance for 100$ for something March 15 2021. I looked it up and it was my first Pfizer shot. Insurance paid $16 and I am being billed for the rest? I thought these vaccines were free to us? hmmmm
If you're in the U.S., you shouldn't have to pay that. (Probably not in other countries, either, but that's outside my knowledge base.) You can call whoever sent the communication (the insurance company or the medical provider) and dispute it.4 -
RetiredAndLovingIt wrote: »I think the Des Moines issue was in person vs online. She said so much percentage of classes had to be in person. (Don’t remember the exact percentage) Our governor signed a bill the end of May that schools cannot do a mask mandate. Schools start here on Tuesday.
Ah, yes, that is correct about the issue being in-person vs. online. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think the Des Moines case would make a difference even if it was the same issue since they are different states.0 -
SummerSkier wrote: »It's actually easy here in Tx to get a booster. I was just talking to one of my friends yesterday morning about it (she is immuno compromised) and got her 2nd shot in Feb I think. She was able to walk right in to the pharmacy and get her booster yesterday afternoon. It will be interesting to see if she has any reaction to the 3rd. So far all reports I have heard are just arm soreness and nothing like the 2nd shot. She got Moderna I think. (and looks like that poster was quite successful in getting the other thread shut down).
On another note maybe MORE people will be encouraged to and will be able to get the antibodies now that our Governor has made them more in the news again.
Also in Texas and have heard that vaccines, which have been very easy to get lately, are now more difficult now that boosters are being given. When I got my 2nd dose in April, I had a hard time finding a place to get an appt. At the time, I was scheduling it about 3-4 weeks before the 2nd dose and could only find 3 places in the entire state with vaccines available in the week of my appt. They were 8 hrs. drive, 6 hrs. drive, and a 30 min. drive. Guess which I booked. My 8 months won't come until December and I'm starting to worry that I won't be able to find one at that time because so many others will be competing for boosters then. If a small group of boosters is already making it tough to get vaccines, it will be really difficult by December.2 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
If you're in the U.S., you shouldn't have to pay that. (Probably not in other countries, either, but that's outside my knowledge base.) You can call whoever sent the communication (the insurance company or the medical provider) and dispute it.
Not in Australia either - is illegal to get payment for either the vaccine itself or the administration of it.
The place giving it ( dr's surgery, hospital etc) gets fully reimbursed by Medicare.3 -
No one is talking about the FDA announcement that Pfizer vax has full regular approval now, for adults?
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
It will be interesting to see what the new rationale will be, among those I know IRL who've been saying "I won't take an experimental drug". I'm quite sure some of them still won't get get vaccinated.
(Some of them were willing to take way, way pre-experimental drugs when they were young'uns, to my knowledge. I guess they've matured, since . . . or something. 😉)17 -
No one is talking about the FDA announcement that Pfizer vax has full regular approval now, for adults?
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
It will be interesting to see what the new rationale will be, among those I know IRL who've been saying "I won't take an experimental drug". I'm quite sure some of them still won't get get vaccinated.
(Some of them were willing to take way, way pre-experimental drugs when they were young'uns, to my knowledge. I guess they've matured, since . . . or something. 😉)
My mom’s friend who said she would only take it after it had been fully approved now says she is planning to get the Johnson & Johnson, which is… still not approved. However she also says she will “get around to it eventually,” so I’m not holding my breath.
Anyway the fact that she is now fine with the J&J when for months she has been refusing to get vaxxed on the basis that the vaccine wasn’t fully approved goes to show it was just an excuse all along. I have no idea what her real reasoning is and don’t think she knows herself, since she fails to see any contradiction between her past and present views.11 -
No one is talking about the FDA announcement that Pfizer vax has full regular approval now, for adults?
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine
It will be interesting to see what the new rationale will be, among those I know IRL who've been saying "I won't take an experimental drug". I'm quite sure some of them still won't get get vaccinated.
(Some of them were willing to take way, way pre-experimental drugs when they were young'uns, to my knowledge. I guess they've matured, since . . . or something. 😉)
Already seeing the goal posts getting moved.
"Approval was rushed!"
"Approval was only given to make politicians look good!"
and the normal..
"We don't know what's in it!"
"It changes your DNA!"
"They are covering up how many have died!"
and on and on.10 -
I wonder if this will work like the flu vaccine which is updated every year. Can they keep their approval yet still update it to fight the Lambda strain spike without having to go thru the whole trial again?4
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I read an article (so consider the source) that talked about being able to eventually develop a vax that is effective against mutations, using virus sites that all covid-19 viruses have in common. Not in the next couple of years, though. Since they reformulate the flu vax every year to try to address whatever strains they believe will be most common, my guess is reformulating the basic vax for boosters wouldn't require any more approval than the flu vax. I think once they get a formula that works, most of the work after that is just testing dosage and side effects.6
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Netflix has a fantastic multi-part series on the development of a "universal" flu vaccine, one that's effective against all mutations and doesn't require yearly "boosters" targeting anticipated strains. The science of it is fascinating, but so is the financial story about what it takes to get this kind of development (and testing) funded. The one I watched did not address Covid specifically, but same idea.
Not sure but I think this is it: https://www.netflix.com/title/81026143
ETA: ^^ yes, that's the one. So good!9 -
Here's my 5 min on mfp today. Was listening to the radio this AM while walking the cats. This particular show host is fully against vaccines which has caused me to limit whether I bother to listen to him. This AM he was recounting which catagories of people are most avoiding vaccinations. He mentioned the usual list of ethnicities and the like, but then he added that PhD's are highly avoiding vaccination (I do remember seeing such a headline but did not bothered to read). He was touting it like that was a more relevant point than I personally would give it credit to be. He continued on saying how all these "highly educated" people are avoiding the vaccine and that that should be indicative to us, the listeners. My thought is that that point might be more valuable if they were MD or select PhD with a pertinent knowledge base that were avoiding the vaccines. IMM does a PhD in dramaturgy really have greater insights into vaccine safety than a general population individual? Those are my thoughts for the day, and I found it annoying that the talk show host thinks we are too stupid to not see the flaw in his argument.
Back to cleaning and packing the house........16 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »
In Texas, there are legal battles because the Governor has said schools cannot require masks, and some school districts have required masks. It then comes to a question of whose authority holds more weight. Last I heard, the Texas Supreme Court is allowing school districts to make mask mandates if they want, but only until the cases are decided. Wasn't this a similar legal issue in the Des Moines, Iowa public schools last year?
An interesting point on this - some school districts have found a legal way around the government edicts... they changed their dress codes to include masks as part of the dress code. Since all dress code decisions are local (out of state control), there is no way for the state to challenge their requirements.15 -
SummerSkier wrote: »It's actually easy here in Tx to get a booster. I was just talking to one of my friends yesterday morning about it (she is immuno compromised) and got her 2nd shot in Feb I think. She was able to walk right in to the pharmacy and get her booster yesterday afternoon. It will be interesting to see if she has any reaction to the 3rd. So far all reports I have heard are just arm soreness and nothing like the 2nd shot. She got Moderna I think. (and looks like that poster was quite successful in getting the other thread shut down).
On another note maybe MORE people will be encouraged to and will be able to get the antibodies now that our Governor has made them more in the news again.
I don't think that was a "booster". I think she got a regular shot which are widely available to walk into any pharmacy and get. So she got herself a third shot, but not necessarily a "booster". Per the CDC, boosters won't be available until the fall after full FDA approval (which happened yesterday August 23). From what I've read, these won't be just walk in and get...you will get a notification that you are eligible as per the date of your 2nd shot. It will go in the same order that the original shots were prioritized.
This is per the CDC on 8/20/21...so not really sure what your friend got here...maybe it was a booster and they were just starting before the official announcement of FDA approval or something. I won't be eligible to get mine until Dec as my 2nd shot was April 2 per the CDC.4 -
Had to come back.
Just got real for me an hour ago. Got news of the first people, whom I personally know, to die of COVID. The husband and wife of a family run small florida restaurant both died in the same day (Yesterday I think). Their son and their niece (waitress) both have COVID as well. I am shocked and devastated. They were beyond lovely people and during the first COVID wave continued to pay their staff despite the restaurant's forced closure.28
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