Coronavirus prep
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »Apologies if this is a question that has been already covered, but I am wondering if anyone has stats for rate of "break through" infections vs second Covid infections. Basically, hubby and I are trying to assess the risk for my 82 year old vaccinated MIL by her being around a non-vaccinated person that tested positive for a COVID infection in May 2020. Is she really at more risk being with this person vs my husband and I, who are fully vaccinated with no known infection? My instinct is that it should be a draw, but I bet there is a more official answer. TIA
My husband is in his early 70’s and has some significant health challenges. He didn’t have much of a reaction to either his first or second COVID shot. I am assuming this means he didn’t produce many antibodies.
So I am continuing to not allow him around anyone whose vaccine status is either unknown or has chosen not to be vaccinated.
If your MIL didn’t have much of a reaction to the vaccine, I personally would advise the same.
I don't think the level of reaction to the vaccine has anything to do with your immunity. Know I read that somewhere. Seems like older people had less of a reaction to the vaccine (and more to Covid) while last spring younger people pre -Delta had more of a reaction to the vaccines and less to Covid. Now the advice is to get a booster.
Nevertheless.
I am morally and legally responsible for his health and safety. I am not going to take any chances.1 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »
https://youtu.be/JhRb5hnTseU
UK has decided the Pandemic is past and will stop testing people not seeking medical treatment. Germany stops paying for Covid-19 testing in October since all humans will have Covid-19 sooner or later and that herd immunity is a medical myth.
My understanding was that Germany will stop offering free rapid tests to everyone in a bid to encourage wider vaccination.
The logic is, I thought, that by October everyone would have the possibility to be vaccinated so after that point, those who voluntarily choose not to get the vaccine will need to pay for tests when a negative test or vaccine certificate is required to attend an event or venue. People who cannot be vaccinated e.g. for medical reasons could still be tested for free, as well as those who are tested due to having symptoms or for contact tracing rather than to gain access to an event.
that makes more sense2 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »Apologies if this is a question that has been already covered, but I am wondering if anyone has stats for rate of "break through" infections vs second Covid infections. Basically, hubby and I are trying to assess the risk for my 82 year old vaccinated MIL by her being around a non-vaccinated person that tested positive for a COVID infection in May 2020. Is she really at more risk being with this person vs my husband and I, who are fully vaccinated with no known infection? My instinct is that it should be a draw, but I bet there is a more official answer. TIA
My understanding based on current studies is that being vaccinated reduced the likelihood of being infected with Delta, compared to having had an earlier variant. Also, fully vaxxed people can pass on the virus, but are less likely to, especially if they are asymptomatic. The belief at the moment is that breakthrough infections which reside in the nasal cavity can be just as infectious, but because they are in the nasal cavity they also cause, well, runny noses. Apparently in the limited studies that have been done asymptomatic vaccinated people didn’t harbor as much virus.
I can tell you what I would do, in the case of my high-risk 84 year old mother - allow her to see this person but outdoors, distanced and masked. If the person really wants to see her without a mask, they can get vaxxed. At this point I have no kind feelings towards anyone refusing the vaccine for anything other than health reasons, and consider such a person to be likely to be careless in their behavior generally, and therefore unsafe to be around.
Yes, this is why I turned down the 12 free massages I am eligible for from the VA - none of the providers on the list are vaccinated. (Well, one was for a health reason - the others did not say.) I just don't want to be that close to and give my business to someone who doesn't share my beliefs about health and safety.
The local branch of the chain Massage Envy would not put me in touch with a vaccinated provider - they say they are not allowed to ask. Which is a BS excuse - plenty of businesses are requiring their employees be vaccinated and are therefore asking. When I get around to it I will send corporate an email giving them a piece of my mind.
I did find a vaccinated massage therapist and am paying him out of pocket. I've encouraged him to apply to be part of the VA's Community Care network. I told him it is likely they will pay him less than his fee and I will make up the difference.
Just a thought. It may not be legal to pay more for a VA Community Care provider to accept money from a client above what the VA pays them. That said? I absolutely do hope you can find a Community Care provider who will protect their vulnerable clients by wearing a kitten mask.
You're probably right regarding an "invoice" amount. Could maybe get around it with a more generous tip than typically giving to the therapist?
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https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavirus/article253897123.html
KY is breaking our prior Covid-19 records. Non Covid patients are greatly shut out of routine or even critical care. Vaccine refusers are claiming the vaccinated are the super spreaders causing the hospitals to be overwhelmed by the unvaccinated. Schools are trying to move to online classes again but that leaves kids running around town hanging out.KY Lake will be crazy this weekend.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavirus/article253897123.html
KY is breaking our prior Covid-19 records. Non Covid patients are greatly shut out of routine or even critical care. Vaccine refusers are claiming the vaccinated are the super spreaders causing the hospitals to be overwhelmed by the unvaccinated. Schools are trying to move to online classes again but that leaves kids running around town hanging out.KY Lake will be crazy this weekend.
I've seen that claim made, too, by unvaccinated anti-vax people. It shocks me (such bad science), but it doesn't surprise me . . . not after everything that's come before, and alongside.12 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
Going to another state every time you want a coffee at a Cafe or items from the supermarket seems a tad impractical.
Sure. For many. However, I live in a historically democratic state and live about 8 miles from a republican state. So there is that! Summer 2020 looked very different just 8 miles away.
In some cases, it's not about moving states. There are cities that have one set of rules and another very nearby that has a different set. If a person is against wearing a mask to shop, it's very easy to drive a few more miles to go to a location without the rule.
Those people who reject wearing masks would be very much less likely to visit a place for vacation with a mask mandate.
That goes both ways. Had I not had so much non-refundable money invested in my vacation to Florida in late July, I would have cancelled the trip and gone elsewhere. When we booked it, things were very much looking on the up...by the time the trip occurred it was a *kitten* show down there.
We have a Florida vacation scheduled for late September with another vaccinated couple. We have a condo on the beach snd and our purpose in going is to hang on the beach. If situation warrents it can do very well without going out to restaurants etc.
The only time we really felt overly "exposed" was in the evenings in Key West walking around upper Duvall after sunset. If that was low season, I can't imagine high season. Whole street just jam packed with people. We were staying on the southern side and it was much quieter and the majority of our activities were outside.
September should be nice...it was hot AF at the end of July.
September is not nicer in many parts of Florida
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ETA. I see he's talking about the panhandle. That may be nicer in September.
IDK...when I was in KW at the end of July/early August it was 95* and incredibly humid and the sun just beat down and we rarely had cloud cover. Miami felt comfortable in comparison for the time we spent there. I think if it was even 5* cooler when we were there it would have made it more bearable.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavirus/article253897123.html
KY is breaking our prior Covid-19 records. Non Covid patients are greatly shut out of routine or even critical care. Vaccine refusers are claiming the vaccinated are the super spreaders causing the hospitals to be overwhelmed by the unvaccinated. Schools are trying to move to online classes again but that leaves kids running around town hanging out.KY Lake will be crazy this weekend.
I've seen that claim made, too, by unvaccinated anti-vax people. It shocks me (such bad science), but it doesn't surprise me . . . not after everything that's come before, and alongside.
It boggles my mind but I am convinced they actually believe that they are correct. They can't see themselves over loading health care is preventing others from getting needed health care that is not Covid related.
On a positive note it seems having Covid-19 and surviving it is actually better than being vaccinated.
https://youtu.be/6v5VrpgXPm4
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If we are all now bound to get it what on earth have the last 18 months been all about in the UK.
From what ive been reading on the CDC website, many childhood vaccine viruses first were endemic, but vaccinated people did not get sick, and so they were eventually eliminated once there were simply not enough hosts without a strong enough immune response to harbor and shed the virus enough for the virus to survive. Sometimes it's unclear whether a virus was sporadic (some people were infected but some people not) or endemic (pretty much everyone gets it but it's usually no big deal) before it was eliminated.
Measles wasn't considered eliminated from the US until 2000. Rubella in 2004. Whooping cough is endemic. Polio first was endemic but was elimated in 1979.
I will add that the idea that covid-19 will become endemic is a possibility, not an obvious fact. It is still a possibility that vaccine immunity will be strong enough to keep many people from infection. I think some government officials are getting impatient so they start to gravitate to endemic covid-19 as a goal, it sounds quicker. That would still be a good result, assuming you are able to avoid infection until you are sufficiently vaccine immunized and until the medical community knows how to easily treat someone who is unlucky and still gets sick.
But I'm with you, as careful as many of us have been, we deserve the chance to still get through this covid-19 free, darn it!12 -
My multinational employer just pushed back earliest return to work from Oct 4th to Nov 1 for most locations worldwide.7
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If we are all now bound to get it what on earth have the last 18 months been all about in the UK.
From what ive been reading on the CDC website, many childhood vaccine viruses first were endemic, but vaccinated people did not get sick, and so they were eventually eliminated once there were simply not enough hosts without a strong enough immune response to harbor and shed the virus enough for the virus to survive. Sometimes it's unclear whether a virus was sporadic (some people were infected but some people not) or endemic (pretty much everyone gets it but it's usually no big deal) before it was eliminated.
Measles wasn't considered eliminated from the US until 2000. Rubella in 2004. Whooping cough is endemic. Polio first was endemic but was elimated in 1979.
I will add that the idea that covid-19 will become endemic is a possibility, not an obvious fact. It is still a possibility that vaccine immunity will be strong enough to keep many people from infection. I think some government officials are getting impatient so they start to gravitate to endemic covid-19 as a goal, it sounds quicker. That would still be a good result, assuming you are able to avoid infection until you are sufficiently vaccine immunized and until the medical community knows how to easily treat someone who is unlucky and still gets sick.
But I'm with you, as careful as many of us have been, we deserve the chance to still get through this covid-19 free, darn it!
Endemic doesn't meant that pretty much everyone get it. It just means that it keeps recurring and is regularly found in the population. Cases can still be sporadic.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »LiveOnceBeHappy wrote: »
Going to another state every time you want a coffee at a Cafe or items from the supermarket seems a tad impractical.
Sure. For many. However, I live in a historically democratic state and live about 8 miles from a republican state. So there is that! Summer 2020 looked very different just 8 miles away.
In some cases, it's not about moving states. There are cities that have one set of rules and another very nearby that has a different set. If a person is against wearing a mask to shop, it's very easy to drive a few more miles to go to a location without the rule.
Those people who reject wearing masks would be very much less likely to visit a place for vacation with a mask mandate.
That goes both ways. Had I not had so much non-refundable money invested in my vacation to Florida in late July, I would have cancelled the trip and gone elsewhere. When we booked it, things were very much looking on the up...by the time the trip occurred it was a *kitten* show down there.
We have a Florida vacation scheduled for late September with another vaccinated couple. We have a condo on the beach snd and our purpose in going is to hang on the beach. If situation warrents it can do very well without going out to restaurants etc.
The only time we really felt overly "exposed" was in the evenings in Key West walking around upper Duvall after sunset. If that was low season, I can't imagine high season. Whole street just jam packed with people. We were staying on the southern side and it was much quieter and the majority of our activities were outside.
September should be nice...it was hot AF at the end of July.
September is not nicer in many parts of Florida.
ETA. I see he's talking about the panhandle. That may be nicer in September.
IDK...when I was in KW at the end of July/early August it was 95* and incredibly humid and the sun just beat down and we rarely had cloud cover. Miami felt comfortable in comparison for the time we spent there. I think if it was even 5* cooler when we were there it would have made it more bearable.
I guess it's all perspective and where you're coming from.0 -
If we are all now bound to get it what on earth have the last 18 months been all about in the UK.
From what ive been reading on the CDC website, many childhood vaccine viruses first were endemic, but vaccinated people did not get sick, and so they were eventually eliminated once there were simply not enough hosts without a strong enough immune response to harbor and shed the virus enough for the virus to survive. Sometimes it's unclear whether a virus was sporadic (some people were infected but some people not) or endemic (pretty much everyone gets it but it's usually no big deal) before it was eliminated.
Measles wasn't considered eliminated from the US until 2000. Rubella in 2004. Whooping cough is endemic. Polio first was endemic but was elimated in 1979.
I will add that the idea that covid-19 will become endemic is a possibility, not an obvious fact. It is still a possibility that vaccine immunity will be strong enough to keep many people from infection. I think some government officials are getting impatient so they start to gravitate to endemic covid-19 as a goal, it sounds quicker. That would still be a good result, assuming you are able to avoid infection until you are sufficiently vaccine immunized and until the medical community knows how to easily treat someone who is unlucky and still gets sick.
But I'm with you, as careful as many of us have been, we deserve the chance to still get through this covid-19 free, darn it!
Endemic doesn't meant that pretty much everyone get it. It just means that it keeps recurring and is regularly found in the population. Cases can still be sporadic.
Aaaah, thanks for the clarification.2 -
I guess covid prepping (looping back to the OP) could now include a dialysis machine, or a list of potential kidney donors:
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/covid-19-long-haulers-at-risk-of-developing-kidney-damage-disease/4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »https://www.kentucky.com/news/coronavirus/article253897123.html
KY is breaking our prior Covid-19 records. Non Covid patients are greatly shut out of routine or even critical care. Vaccine refusers are claiming the vaccinated are the super spreaders causing the hospitals to be overwhelmed by the unvaccinated. Schools are trying to move to online classes again but that leaves kids running around town hanging out.KY Lake will be crazy this weekend.
Madness. Stay safe Gale.7 -
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Someone released a diversion sheet for Indianapolis hospitals. The vast majority were on diversion. And we are no where near peak with all of this. Numbers keep increasing. I also found out that the numbers you see on the state site may not be valid when it comes to vents and beds... because it only counts the physical number of those items. It doesn't take into account staffing or anything else. So while we may have X number of ICU beds available, we may not have enough staff to cover those beds safely so they can't be used. ERs are also seeing super high waits at times because people are stuck in the ER due to lack of beds elsewhere.
I am going back to my old ways of doing things. I have canceled events. I only get together with people I know are being safe. Pretty much the only time I leave my house is for the grocery shopping and my one day in the office a week. I did meet a friend at Barnes and Noble yesterday but it was really quiet, we sat at a table away from anyone else, and we kept our masks on a good part of the time (only took it off when seated with no one around us). I wear my mask in the store and at work until I get to my "area". Luckily Fridays are super slow in the office so I don't have to wear my mask all day and we are spaced apart really well.
Society had ONE job... and too many failed at it so we are all being punished for it.26 -
The local/regional hospital about .5 mile up the road from me now has a big blue tent outside; it's nice that the weather has cooled off. They've doubled the ICU capacity, and now that's overflowed. But more importantly, staffing is an issue. My young cousin, an ICU nurse, has 4 patients to watch. It is supposed to be 1 or maybe 2. The hospital is only 75% staffed for its normal capacity. Now this!
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In addition to staffing issues, let's not forget that early on with the pandemic, NICU beds were reported as part of the total available ICU beds. I assume that is still happening.3
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I'm encouraged by the stats I saw this morning for my city (population ~66K). 72.2% of residents over 12 are vaccinated (and that number would be bumped up somewhat by adding people who had covid and recovered). We don't seem to have much in the way of community spread any more, and the exposure notices from my grandson's K-5 school have dropped from one or two a day to a couple a week, so having to return to remote learning is less and less likely. I am thankful.11
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Apologies if this is a question that has been already covered, but I am wondering if anyone has stats for rate of "break through" infections vs second Covid infections. Basically, hubby and I are trying to assess the risk for my 82 year old vaccinated MIL by her being around a non-vaccinated person that tested positive for a COVID infection in May 2020. Is she really at more risk being with this person vs my husband and I, who are fully vaccinated with no known infection? My instinct is that it should be a draw, but I bet there is a more official answer. TIA
My husband is in his early 70’s and has some significant health challenges. He didn’t have much of a reaction to either his first or second COVID shot. I am assuming this means he didn’t produce many antibodies.
So I am continuing to not allow him around anyone whose vaccine status is either unknown or has chosen not to be vaccinated.
If your MIL didn’t have much of a reaction to the vaccine, I personally would advise the same.
I don't think the level of reaction to the vaccine has anything to do with your immunity. Know I read that somewhere. Seems like older people had less of a reaction to the vaccine (and more to Covid) while last spring younger people pre -Delta had more of a reaction to the vaccines and less to Covid. Now the advice is to get a booster.
Nevertheless.
I am morally and legally responsible for his health and safety. I am not going to take any chances.
Seriously. THREE disagrees on this one???
What in the world could anyone possibly be disagreeing with????
This isn’t someone’s finger slipping.
11
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