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Coronavirus prep

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Replies

  • amart4224
    amart4224 Posts: 345 Member
    the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.

    I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.

    She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.



    Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 22,294 Member
    amart4224 wrote: »
    the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.

    I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.

    She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.



    Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.

    I'm not certain of this, but I think some states already had some kind of central record of these, through the health departments somehow. I can't prove it, but my impression was that my state (Michigan) was checking people who signed up for the "I got vaxed" lottery against some central data repository, making sure the entrants were really vaxed. Not positive, though.

    Whether employers would be able to validate against those records or not is a separate question. (Note that in at least some places they can do background checks, criminal records checks, I think validate drivers' licenses, for sure can validate other licenses, etc. I'm not saying I think states would turn over some central vax database to employers (if it exists) but that there might be a portal for authorized entities to provide identification and vax info, get back a "real" or "no" indication.)
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 7,171 Member
    the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.


    Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,679 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    amart4224 wrote: »
    the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.

    I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.

    She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.



    Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.

    States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.

    As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.

    Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to

    Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.

    I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    amart4224 wrote: »
    the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon. I know for certain there are folks at my workplace who will not get vaccinated for various reasons. I wonder how they are going to enforce a weekly negative test result. They already have created the "platform" to gather vaccination status (copy of card) via a promotion to get an extra day of vacation and entry into a raffle.

    I asked one of my workers if that was incentive enough to get vaccinated and she said no. She also had covid last year and still can't smell anything. So I asked her what WOULD be incentive and she just shook her head. I have talked to another coworker who had delta in August, and she said it was the most awful thing she had ever had (and she was barely not hospitalized mostly because the hospital was full). She was not vaccinated and admitted that her relative who got sick who was vaccinated only had a fever for 3 days whereas she was sick for almost 2 weeks with fever and then pnuemonia. I did NOT ask her if she would get the vaccine because her reason was similar to mine in the past.

    She was ex military and back in the day when you had an exercise they gave you ALL the shots. Like me she got very sick and swore never to get the flu shot etc again. I changed my mind in 2018 when I got the flu for the first time (due to open workspace I am sure) and it was pretty awful. I lost my sense of taste for a few days and it took me almost a month to get my energy back. So I got the flu shot after that, and it wasn't bad at all and it was only the last one in 2020 that my arm was even sore. I tried to tell her that the vaccinations from the 80's and 90's had possibly changed over time and her military reaction might have been from getting ALL the shots together but that fell on deaf ears. I know part of the reason like her many will not get vaccinated is the fear of a reaction.



    Isn't collecting copies of the vax card kind of meaningless without some way to verify authenticity, though? How do they stop the anti-vaxxers from printing off a bogus one, fudging the info, and submitting it to reap the rewards? As far as I understand it, there is still no real way to validate and weed out the fakes.

    States and the Federal government have already been cracking down on this. There is a black market and I'm sure there are some who will use it, but I don't think the vast majority of people will be going out and getting fake cards. They're expensive (guy in CA was busted by the Feds selling at $20 a pop) and it is also a federal offense to poses or sell as a valid vax card must have the official CDC logo and therefore considered forging of a federal document and that comes with serious consequences if caught, and people are being caught. I would also anticipate the black market price to continue to rise with these kinds of mandates.

    As vax mandates become more prolific, I would also imagine states will follow the route of NY, Illinois, and California with digital verification records, where those records come directly from their state DOH as proof of vaccination status.

    Yes, there will always be bad actors...as far as I know fake driver's licenses haven't gone away, but we still require that photo ID for many things. The vast majority of people aren't going to

    Re: the black market - it would take a person who was competent in any editing program with access to a decent printer about an hour to make a fake card. In Tennessee they ran out of cards in the early stages so sent a pdf of the form to vax sites with instructions to print their own cards. Not sure how you would tell one printed by a random small county health department from one printed by a random antivaxxer.

    I feel like this is all theater since Delta means that you are almost as likely to catch the virus from a vaccinated person as an unvaccinated one. There was a time when it could have made a difference but that time has passed.

    Your "all theater" remark nailed it!
    Closing the gate after all of the livestock has gotten out is counter productive. Now the lawsuits and count lawsuits begin.
  • tiptoethruthetulips
    tiptoethruthetulips Posts: 3,280 Member
    the next few months should be interesting here in the US after the President's announcements yesterday afternoon.


    Could somebody please briefly outline, for the benifit of non US readers like me, what these announcements were.

    The main new thing is that he plans to require all employers with 100 or more employees to make sure their employees are vaccinated, or have them test negative on a weekly basis to enter the workplace.

    Thank you.

    Yes that could be interesting.

    So it is regardless of occupational purpose of the business?

    Here in Australia the only mandatory employment so far is Aged Care. All employees must have had at least one dose by Sept 17th.
    Temporary exemption for pregnancy ( yes I know you can have the vaccine in pregnancy but they are allowing you to have it after if you choose) and permanent in extremely specific contraindications.

    I work in a medical centre and we run covid vaccines clinics.
    Had a man last week wanting an exemption because he and his partner were trying to conceive a baby
    Became very abusive when Dr refused - naturally since there is no such contraindication and any man could just claim that. :*


    Tasmanian government has introduced mandatory vaccination deadlines for those working in health settings. Qantas and some other employers have also introduced mandatory vaccination for employees.

    This is an interesting read, it's written by the owner of MONA in Tasmania as to why he is requiring employees to have vaccinations https://mona.net.au/blog/2021/09/traffic-lights